Don’t let discussions devolve into character assassination, just respond to arguments with counter arguments. And don’t make sweeping generalizations. There are people here who listen to reason, but hold different views. The truth is complicated.
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I’m just slightly creeped out on a conceptual level about this whole thing
- Thread starter vmachiel
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The one advantage I see from this tech (which is seriously impressive, no doubt) is reducing neck and eye strain from looking down at a smartphone in your hand all the time.
I think one of the reasons we see this as dystopian is because that's how most popular TV shows and movies (such as Black Mirror) and pop culture portray it. Contrast this to cell phones, which were compared to Star Trek's communicators; the idea behind Star Trek was to be a much more optimistic show showing what good things humanity might achieve in the future.
I think one of the reasons we see this as dystopian is because that's how most popular TV shows and movies (such as Black Mirror) and pop culture portray it. Contrast this to cell phones, which were compared to Star Trek's communicators; the idea behind Star Trek was to be a much more optimistic show showing what good things humanity might achieve in the future.
I agree, popular stories have a lot of power, and may have created unconscious bias and fear. Not saying it’s completely unfounded, but I think people have jumped to conclusions too fast.
For use cases where you don’t move around much and mostly sit at a desk or similar, you can plug it into an outlet. So battery life isn’t necessarily an impediment. (The weight and fit of the headset however probably is.)
(Even when you move around, as long as the movement is constrained to a single room, people have been using fixtures like the IKEA SKAFTET to hold cables for VR headsets from above.)
This product is the start of a journey and with immature products, it’s too easy to focus on where we are now and not explore where Apple thinks we’ll end up.
While it’s possible Vision Pro will end up separating us further, Apple’s technology is famous/infamous for allowing Apple users specifically to connect more seamlessly between themselves (iMessage, Face Time, Air Drop, Share Play, etc).
I think we’re going to end up with a more powerful version of what Google intended with Glass. I personally don’t think that’s a bad thing.
While it’s possible Vision Pro will end up separating us further, Apple’s technology is famous/infamous for allowing Apple users specifically to connect more seamlessly between themselves (iMessage, Face Time, Air Drop, Share Play, etc).
I think we’re going to end up with a more powerful version of what Google intended with Glass. I personally don’t think that’s a bad thing.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Hopefully we all realize that Vpro- like sunglasses, glasses, diving goggles, ski goggles, motorcycle or bike helmet- is NOT BOLTED on. When person on laptop, iPod, iPhone, iPad or Vpro wishes to engage as we do now, they can put the device away. Vpro will slide right off of our heads as easy as sunglasses slide off our face. I look at the motion to "remove" as comparable to the motion to close the laptop: a very simple effort to then put away that laptop/Vpro.
Some of us seem to imagine that once someone puts on Vpro, it is permanently on (aka "We are the Borg" implants)... that as we roam about in public, everyone will soon be in Vpro and how the human world looks will have a new head shape accomodating Vpro. I have a plenty big imagination and I don't envision that at all. Instead, I suspect Vpro is in and out of the bag much like laptops: use them when you want or need them, put them away when you don't.
As a practical matter, 2-hour battery life will automatically prevent living in them on its own. And surely we intuitively know this. For any doubters who currently "live in your iPhone" I challenge you to put a 2-hour timer on your phone and then commit yourself to putting it away after that (because it has hypothetically ran out of power). You'll find yourself automatically forced to engage with the world the "old fashioned way" far more than you have for years- probably since your first iPhone. That will require a voluntary action and then a commitment to actually do it (are you even able to do it and stick with it like it is really dead?). Vpro will be automatic because the battery will drain… FAST
I actually perceive that battery life will revive something we did long ago when 2 hours was normal for other kinds of devices: use hoarding... meaning the soft-concern to want to be able to use them for something later will motivate barely using them now so that we will have some battery reserve when and if we need it then. That means 2 hours won't really be 2 hours because users will be trying to save at least 15-30 minutes for later, when it might be needed. Also consider that Apple battery claims are usually when the batter is new, so I would immediately assume 2 hours down to about 90 minutes after only a few discharge/recharge cycles. 90 minutes minus the 15-30 we want to have in reserve for "later" possible usage leaves only 60 minutes of all day possible use... unless we're also carrying 1+ additional batteries too and/or quick charging is available... and we can find sockets for that charging.
Lastly, those who are certain people will be living in goggles should shift their point of view from "self" to the other people. Those choosing to "check out" to that degree are obviously NOT wanting to socially engage with you anyway. Not only are they choosing a different world view in Goggles but they paid $3500 for the option to check out of some parts of the real world anyway. If we could wave some wand to put this product back in the bottle, that kind of person so passionate about "hiding" elsewhere would still hide elsewhere: in their home, behind sunglasses, only out when most are not, etc. Not having Vpro won't make them any more accessible to- or engaging with- you.
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The front-heaviness of the headset might cause other problems though.
I was thinking about how VR headsets would appear to the audience in a Star Trek show. Arguably, the Borg are that. The holodeck, on the other hand, while also shown to have some problematic potential in TNG (and in The Orville), seems more benign, because it doesn’t create an immediate separation on the level of the individual user: everyone nearby (in the same room) will see the same thing.
Ah, the Apple universal hive-mind in the making. You will be assimilated. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
I agree, well freaky it is. No matter tech benefits, I am not going out with this thing on my head a la total weirdo. Once/if they manage to bring the size down to regular glasses (along with the price), I might reconsider, but for now I am fine. 🖐️
Audio will of course be filtered as well through transparency mode, and I guess we’ll get nose plugs that do the same for smell. The flower garden might just get a bit bumpy when you stroll into it.
Yeah, but computer didn't block your eyes. Vision Pro by nature is blocking your eyes and try to "manipulate" your mind with the new "reality". These are not happened in the computer case (except your close the curtains, sit in special chair, etc).
Yea as a work tool I think it’s great. Site surveys for architecture or walking in a conceptual design. Could be ground breaking stuff. But as an every day media consumption device I think it’s kinda silly and borderline unhealthy. The problem is, it will never succeed unless it’s marketed as a media device. It simply needs the sales.
I did however find it hysterical that 5 minutes before they started talking about it they were going on this tangent about eye health. I get it I get it but it’s still just kinda funny when you step back.
I did however find it hysterical that 5 minutes before they started talking about it they were going on this tangent about eye health. I get it I get it but it’s still just kinda funny when you step back.
Let’s you have the reality dial set to include 100% of surroundings, in this case it seems like you’re interacting more with the room than with a normal screen. And people show up between screens also. It seems more transparent to me.
AirPods Pro on transparency mode are kind of similar where sounds are replicated through microphones and speakers. To the user it is barely distinguishable from reality. I’m expecting similar results here with vision.
And I’m wondering if we (and Apple) aren’t spending too much time on the consumer uses of this device.
Saving money on multiple screens in my home office would easily cover 50% or more of the cost of this device. And it has the added benefit that I could now actually fit multiple screens in a floating vs physical workspace.
We need technology that can bring us together from ways away. We need to be able to communicate better.
Apple had one good sentence about Vison Pro that I believe they will hammer home more and more... Namely that this is technology where you:
"Look through the device" and are able to do computing while looking at people. I see this sentiment reflected by people who have tried it.
The difference is subtle and easy to miss, but it is substantial and I believe WHY Jony Ive wanted there to be a screen in the front that shows your eyes. Your eyes are very important for communication with people around you. AND as such, the fact that Apple is taking this into account (successfully or not) IS a major sign that Apple sees this technology as a means of Social computing and not "Isolating and anti-social"
Yes, this technology HAS the potential to be very antisocial since it gives you the option to completely shield yourself from people.
But is it more anti-social then putting on sunglasses and earphones? ...IF the experience becomes as normal as iPhones, well yes, we would be living in a world where people can absolutely completely ignore other people out in the world AND in their home.
I AM encouraged by the fact that Apple puts a whole other display and invests in technology to have your eyes appear in the front. It shows a design intent to make it be SOCIAL. And that is not insignificant. And I believe that them doing that will influence other companies to explore the idea aswell.
Now that I know their implementation, and can see more clearly the possibilities they offer, I think Spatial Computing is going to be more social then computing with a display or a smartphone.. Why? Because you can share your computing space if the other people also have a way to see it.
With todays technology of 2d physical screens, you are MORE isolated when you work. Your 2d screen is more personal and it requires your eyes to be fixed at it, and so avert your eyes from other people. I do this all the time, if I feel like I do not want to socialize, I will go to my Mac and not share what I do hardly at all on my computer, with my wife and my kid. Rarely do I share stuff. BUT, if my space is easily shareable, and my wife has a way to access my Space OR we have a shared space for Apple Vision in our home, the computing experience is MORE social.
Example: I find a certain kind of house that I love, and I am looking at buildings and designs in Apple Vision in our livingroom. If me and my wife both have Apple Vision devices, I could share my experience with her and she would easily be able to see what I am seeing. And we could have a conversation about it ad-hoc. BUT, if I do this on my Mac Display or iPhone, I have to bring the device infront off her, or I have to ask her to come look at my display. YES sure, I would send her a link. But that is just a web page or a video, it requires her to start on a discovery she is not ready or able to at a moments notice. IF she can just join my Visual experience effortlessly, then me explaining and showing her is MUCH easier AND social.
We will learn that Spatial Computing is much more social because we can see through the content and interact while seeing it and sharing our vision and vice-versa.
Apple is on the right track, and they are actively looking to make this technology a SOCIAL experience. And I believe we will see their marketing get more focused as this reality sinks in across Apple.
Apple had one good sentence about Vison Pro that I believe they will hammer home more and more... Namely that this is technology where you:
"Look through the device" and are able to do computing while looking at people. I see this sentiment reflected by people who have tried it.
The difference is subtle and easy to miss, but it is substantial and I believe WHY Jony Ive wanted there to be a screen in the front that shows your eyes. Your eyes are very important for communication with people around you. AND as such, the fact that Apple is taking this into account (successfully or not) IS a major sign that Apple sees this technology as a means of Social computing and not "Isolating and anti-social"
Yes, this technology HAS the potential to be very antisocial since it gives you the option to completely shield yourself from people.
But is it more anti-social then putting on sunglasses and earphones? ...IF the experience becomes as normal as iPhones, well yes, we would be living in a world where people can absolutely completely ignore other people out in the world AND in their home.
I AM encouraged by the fact that Apple puts a whole other display and invests in technology to have your eyes appear in the front. It shows a design intent to make it be SOCIAL. And that is not insignificant. And I believe that them doing that will influence other companies to explore the idea aswell.
Now that I know their implementation, and can see more clearly the possibilities they offer, I think Spatial Computing is going to be more social then computing with a display or a smartphone.. Why? Because you can share your computing space if the other people also have a way to see it.
With todays technology of 2d physical screens, you are MORE isolated when you work. Your 2d screen is more personal and it requires your eyes to be fixed at it, and so avert your eyes from other people. I do this all the time, if I feel like I do not want to socialize, I will go to my Mac and not share what I do hardly at all on my computer, with my wife and my kid. Rarely do I share stuff. BUT, if my space is easily shareable, and my wife has a way to access my Space OR we have a shared space for Apple Vision in our home, the computing experience is MORE social.
Example: I find a certain kind of house that I love, and I am looking at buildings and designs in Apple Vision in our livingroom. If me and my wife both have Apple Vision devices, I could share my experience with her and she would easily be able to see what I am seeing. And we could have a conversation about it ad-hoc. BUT, if I do this on my Mac Display or iPhone, I have to bring the device infront off her, or I have to ask her to come look at my display. YES sure, I would send her a link. But that is just a web page or a video, it requires her to start on a discovery she is not ready or able to at a moments notice. IF she can just join my Visual experience effortlessly, then me explaining and showing her is MUCH easier AND social.
We will learn that Spatial Computing is much more social because we can see through the content and interact while seeing it and sharing our vision and vice-versa.
Apple is on the right track, and they are actively looking to make this technology a SOCIAL experience. And I believe we will see their marketing get more focused as this reality sinks in across Apple.
But there’s no such thing as headphones for video. There’s not something that I can carry with me, that I can put on, and it gives me the same experience as I get watching… You know… My 50 inch plasma screen at home. And until someone invents that, you’re going to have these opposing constraints.”
I think Apple would be smart to focus on this in their development and messaging going forward...
Develop shared spaces as a feature at launch. And develop a message that this is "Shared Spatial and more Social Computing"
Develop shared spaces as a feature at launch. And develop a message that this is "Shared Spatial and more Social Computing"
Spent last evening, for 3 hours, alongside a river in the mountains under clear skies watching the sunset and light fade into a starry night
That’s the kind of “Vision” I’m interested in
Not a scuba mask to jam Apple Apps in front of me at relative 100” screen sizes
That’s the kind of “Vision” I’m interested in
Not a scuba mask to jam Apple Apps in front of me at relative 100” screen sizes
I believe this technology won’t really take off until it can get out of the way. I can’t imagine wearing it for long periods of time every single day, making adjustments to the strap, etc.
I’m still glad it exists and know it will keep going down in price and its battery life will improve over time, but the usability of it, I don’t see how that can improve much more.
I guess the ultimate goal would be some sort of glasses or contact lenses like 50 years from now.
I’m still glad it exists and know it will keep going down in price and its battery life will improve over time, but the usability of it, I don’t see how that can improve much more.
I guess the ultimate goal would be some sort of glasses or contact lenses like 50 years from now.
But the Vision Pro allows you to record that, so that you can experience it whenever you like!!
(At least that’s what Apple’s marketing wants you to think.)
(And you’ll have to swap batteries after two hours.)
(And you’ll have to buy the 2TB version to be able to store that 3-hour spatial video.)