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I agree, though I still dream in Snow Leopard so perhaps my opinion should be invalid...

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Snow Leopard looks dated but the layouts are better than anything Apple has done in years

The title bar isn’t cluttered with icons. Plenty of space to drag the window. The title is highly readable and the icon helps you see what the window is for at a glance

The toolbar has its own space. Plenty of space for tools if you want a ton of them. The sidebar and title bar elements aren’t in the way. Sidebar icons have color, making them easy to differentiate at a glance

A clear indicator for where you can resize the window that doesn’t fool you into grabbing the wrong part and doesn’t require you to click outside the window to resize

App icons have their own shapes which makes it easier to tell them apart. They look dated now but there’s a clear good effort being put into their design. They look sharp and detailed and clever instead of liquid glass’s abstract, blurry, low effort icons

I really wish Apple’s designers were smart enough to take this layout and cleverly modernize it for MacOS in the future

Put the good features like control center and notifications into this environment. Update it with modern colors, blurs and transparency that don’t damage readability. A dark mode. Tabs in the Finder

MacOS could be so nice to use
 
I don't like transparency. My world isn't transparent...I don't read transparent books, I don't use transparent monitors, the paperwork on my desk isn't transparent..

I don't interact with anything transparent except windows (the physical objects, not the OS), which don't convey information except what is on the other side.
Yep. In most cases where transparency is used in a computer interface, it detracts from readability.
 
Disdain aside, why is that necessarily a bad thing?

An E-Type Jaguar was produced in the 1960s. Just happens to be a year, in fact.

I think it's important to understand the difference between having taste and outsourcing it to a company.

When one hasn’t done the work of understanding why they may have liked an older UI, the easiest move is to latch onto whatever the current design language happens as 'the new way forward' to be and then dismiss everything prior as 'dated'. That judgement isn’t analytical, or even aesthetic. It’s a way of signalling alignment with the current trends. It’s a way of aligning oneself with the present design language rather than engaging with the UI to understand it or its original context to signal that one know what's 'in', rather than an understanding of UI.

Appreciating something like old OS UIs requires historical knowledge and humility: understanding problems it was solving, assumptions users had at the time, and why those choices made sense. Following current trends is lazy and confident, which is why it’s so tempting for people who don't have taste. Confidence without context is easy to mistake for insight.
 
Appreciating something like old OS UIs requires historical knowledge and humility: understanding problems it was solving, assumptions users had at the time, and why those choices made sense. Following current trends is lazy and confident, which is why it’s so tempting for people who don't have taste. Confidence without context is easy to mistake for insight.
interesting opinions. why can't one appreciate an older GUI without 'historical knowledge and humilty'? who decided that as a condition of such appreciation?

and 'following current trends' doesn't automatically mean someone doesn't have 'taste'; it doesn't mean they do have taste.

anyway, interesting opinions (but, in my opinion), pretty absurd. making up your own rules doesn't make them actual rules...
 
interesting opinions. why can't one appreciate an older GUI without 'historical knowledge and humilty'? who decided that as a condition of such appreciation?
The present and the future are built upon knowledge of the past. It's an interesting opinion and I can only speak from own experiences, but I agree with it.

When I look back on Aqua (or at least the OS X era up to around Mavericks), I understand that the conception of this particular GUI was part exploration of 3D rendering, part flexing of software capabilities, part artistic intent. Or as Apple put it more simply, blending liberal arts and technologies.

But I would argue that it's only when understanding this that one can appreciate why that era existed and the inherent thought that went into usability. It also helps when one has actually lived through this era - my computing days go back as far as the Commodore Amiga - so I've had the benefit of not just seeing these GUIs, but also experiencing them in-hand.

So, why did that era resonate with me? Because I found it inspiring. At the time OS X was introduced I was starting off in graphic arts and had just transitioned from OS 9. That transition was monumental. I still get goosebumps thinking about the craftsmanship of that GUI, and being excited to just engage with many aspects of it. It was beautiful but never overwhelming, in my experience.

and 'following current trends' doesn't automatically mean someone doesn't have 'taste'; it doesn't mean they do have taste.
"Good artists copy, great artists steal". The artists at Apple couldn't even break into the gallery.
 
The present and the future are built upon knowledge of the past. It's an interesting opinion and I can only speak from own experiences, but I agree with it.

When I look back on Aqua (or at least the OS X era up to around Mavericks), I understand that the conception of this particular GUI was part exploration of 3D rendering, part flexing of software capabilities, part artistic intent. Or as Apple put it more simply, blending liberal arts and technologies.

But I would argue that it's only when understanding this that one can appreciate why that era existed and the inherent thought that went into usability. It also helps when one has actually lived through this era - my computing days go back as far as the Commodore Amiga - so I've had the benefit of not just seeing these GUIs, but also experiencing them in-hand.

So, why did that era resonate with me? Because I found it inspiring. At the time OS X was introduced I was starting off in graphic arts and had just transitioned from OS 9. That transition was monumental. I still get goosebumps thinking about the craftsmanship of that GUI, and being excited to just engage with many aspects of it. It was beautiful but never overwhelming, in my experience.


"Good artists copy, great artists steal". The artists at Apple couldn't even break into the gallery.
"Good artists copy, great artists steal". The artists at Apple couldn't even break into the gallery."

what does that even mean? what about the artists that invent, repurpose, innovate? hmmm 🤔

again, sigh... all opinions. it's ok to create a song without knowing the history of music. it's ok to create from a fresh perspective, something not based on study of the past. altho not sure what any of it has to do with tahoe 🤷

it's ok to make changes that not everyone will like (really, speaking of history, this has been true of every OS in apple's history; check these forums for verification).
 
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"Good artists copy, great artists steal". The artists at Apple couldn't even break into the gallery."

what does that even mean? what about the artists that invent, repurpose, innovate? hmmm 🤔
What about them? Maybe go ask them?

again, sigh... all opinions. it's ok to create a song without knowing the history of music. it's ok to create from a fresh perspective, something not based on study of the past. altho not sure what any of it has to do with tahoe 🤷

it's ok to make changes that not everyone will like (really, speaking of history, this has been true of every OS in apple's history; check these forums for verification).
As per usual with this defensive behaviour - I have never denied any of the above, so I’m not sure why you continue this whole ‘opinion’ parade.

Indeed, my original post stated several times that those thoughts were my own only. It could not be more clear and obvious.
 
As per usual with this defensive behaviour - I have never denied any of the above, so I’m not sure why you continue this whole ‘opinion’ parade.

Indeed, my original post stated several times that those thoughts were my own only. It could not be more clear and obvious.

Right, and that’s what makes the repetition of the same generic defense against a claim that was never made so odd. No one disputed that opinions exist, that change is permissible, or that people won’t all like the same thing. Those points are already established at the outset of any conversation, so restating them doesn’t really advance anything.

When someone explicitly frames their remarks as personal, repeatedly circling back to whether opinions are “allowed” feels less like clarification and more like avoidance.

I also keep seeing the suggestion that people “aren’t being clear,” usually because (I assume) they aren’t prefixing every sentence with “in my opinion.” In ordinary discussion, some level of contextual inference is assumed. If that inference isn’t happening, then the lack of clarity likely isn’t with how the point was presented.
 
Right, and that’s what makes the repetition of the same generic defense against a claim that was never made so odd. No one disputed that opinions exist, that change is permissible, or that people won’t all like the same thing. Those points are already established at the outset of any conversation, so restating them doesn’t really advance anything.

When someone explicitly frames their remarks as personal, repeatedly circling back to whether opinions are “allowed” feels less like clarification and more like avoidance.

I also keep seeing the suggestion that people “aren’t being clear,” usually because (I assume) they aren’t prefixing every sentence with “in my opinion.” In ordinary discussion, some level of contextual inference is assumed. If that inference isn’t happening, then the lack of clarity likely isn’t with how the point was presented.
Beautifully articulated.

(in my opinion)
 
I agree.

It's ok on the iPhone, I tend to forget it exist.
But on macOS I just couldn't stand it.
My new (to me) M1 Pro 14" came with Tahoe. I tried to get used to it, but I couldn't, I downgraded to Sequoia like a week later
On Tahoe it seems to be ever so slightly less responsive, I hate that the window decorations takes so much space (and the whole UI in general tbh), especially on a laptop. Oh let's not forget the fact that they removed the Launchpad. The replacement is just messy, there's no way to put apps in folders.
And my battery life really improved after downgrading.

I'll hold on to Sequoia for as long as possible.
 
The present and the future are built upon knowledge of the past. It's an interesting opinion and I can only speak from own experiences, but I agree with it.

When I look back on Aqua (or at least the OS X era up to around Mavericks), I understand that the conception of this particular GUI was part exploration of 3D rendering, part flexing of software capabilities, part artistic intent. Or as Apple put it more simply, blending liberal arts and technologies.

But I would argue that it's only when understanding this that one can appreciate why that era existed and the inherent thought that went into usability. It also helps when one has actually lived through this era - my computing days go back as far as the Commodore Amiga - so I've had the benefit of not just seeing these GUIs, but also experiencing them in-hand.

So, why did that era resonate with me? Because I found it inspiring. At the time OS X was introduced I was starting off in graphic arts and had just transitioned from OS 9. That transition was monumental. I still get goosebumps thinking about the craftsmanship of that GUI, and being excited to just engage with many aspects of it. It was beautiful but never overwhelming, in my experience.


"Good artists copy, great artists steal". The artists at Apple couldn't even break into the gallery.
So this! I had a similar experience.

Coming from Mac OS 7-9 to X was HUGE in every way (also had used Windows as well, up to XP at the time) but mainly the well thought out UI that actually looked good. Everyone I talked to loved it and couldn't wait to upgrade to Mac OS X as soon as they could. Windows users were wanting to use that UI as well. Everything had a reason and a purpose, unlike todays UI's. It wasn't fancy for fancy sake (like Liquid Glass), it was fancy for a reason and in places where it made sense. Each element had a real purpose behind it.
 
"Good artists copy, great artists steal". The artists at Apple couldn't even break into the gallery."

what does that even mean? what about the artists that invent, repurpose, innovate? hmmm 🤔
The quote is talking about inventing, repurposing and innovating
again, sigh... all opinions. it's ok to create a song without knowing the history of music. it's ok to create from a fresh perspective, something not based on study of the past. altho not sure what any of it has to do with tahoe 🤷
I agree with that point generally, but an UI isn't a song.

It's not an *expressive* art form, it's a *functional* art form. You're not gonna want a water bottle that creates from such a fresh perspective that it leaks, but many people *do* want a water bottle that looks good, and people who appreciate design will want a water bottle that feels fresh and innovative.

You can create a design that is fresh and innovative while also fulfilling the basic function that the object is supposed to perform. That's what people loved about the Jobs years of Apple's design: They were great at doing both of those things.

Breaking the rules is great in art. It's how art moves forward. But when you're working in an area that requires function, even an innovative form must *support* that function. That's what the quote "Design is how it works" means. That's the whole point of the design: to enable people to accomplish a goal. The appearance has to come secondary to that. If the appearance is interfering with people's ability to accomplish the goal, the design is bad.

And that's why liquid glass is a failure. And it's also why people are complaining that the UI designers at Apple don't understand UI design: They're breaking rules that make it possible to *use* the software rather than just look at it. We have decades of studies and testing and knowledge about how people see, what is usable, and what isn't.

it's ok to make changes that not everyone will like (really, speaking of history, this has been true of every OS in apple's history; check these forums for verification).
Sure, that's true. But if you use your critical thinking skills, you can look beyond the surface of "people just hate change" and see that some critique makes sense and has valid reasoning, and other critique is just hating on change.

A lot of people want to believe that criticism of MacOS Tahoe is hating change, but most of the critique I'm seeing is entirely valid criticism based on the huge flaws in usability around the operating system's design. Mainly, that it was designed in a way that looks good to Alan Dye but it interferes with the usability of the system for people who actually *use* it. And it does so at such an extreme, we've never seen this from Apple before.

When I first saw MacOS Tahoe, I was excited. It was cool to see Apple do something fresh and innovative. But then I saw how horrible the usability was. How the designers didn't take using the software into consideration. How things like "we're using transparency so the background doesn't interfere with your content" makes no sense when you see the way the background bleeds through and makes it harder to read text. And that's when I started criticizing them
 
The quote is talking about inventing, repurposing and innovating

I agree with that point generally, but an UI isn't a song.

It's not an *expressive* art form, it's a *functional* art form. You're not gonna want a water bottle that creates from such a fresh perspective that it leaks, but many people *do* want a water bottle that looks good, and people who appreciate design will want a water bottle that feels fresh and innovative.

You can create a design that is fresh and innovative while also fulfilling the basic function that the object is supposed to perform. That's what people loved about the Jobs years of Apple's design: They were great at doing both of those things.

Breaking the rules is great in art. It's how art moves forward. But when you're working in an area that requires function, even an innovative form must *support* that function. That's what the quote "Design is how it works" means. That's the whole point of the design: to enable people to accomplish a goal. The appearance has to come secondary to that. If the appearance is interfering with people's ability to accomplish the goal, the design is bad.

And that's why liquid glass is a failure. And it's also why people are complaining that the UI designers at Apple don't understand UI design: They're breaking rules that make it possible to *use* the software rather than just look at it. We have decades of studies and testing and knowledge about how people see, what is usable, and what isn't.


Sure, that's true. But if you use your critical thinking skills, you can look beyond the surface of "people just hate change" and see that some critique makes sense and has valid reasoning, and other critique is just hating on change.

A lot of people want to believe that criticism of MacOS Tahoe is hating change, but most of the critique I'm seeing is entirely valid criticism based on the huge flaws in usability around the operating system's design. Mainly, that it was designed in a way that looks good to Alan Dye but it interferes with the usability of the system for people who actually *use* it. And it does so at such an extreme, we've never seen this from Apple before.

When I first saw MacOS Tahoe, I was excited. It was cool to see Apple do something fresh and innovative. But then I saw how horrible the usability was. How the designers didn't take using the software into consideration. How things like "we're using transparency so the background doesn't interfere with your content" makes no sense when you see the way the background bleeds through and makes it harder to read text. And that's when I started criticizing them
i hear you really. but not everyone sees the UI as horribly unusable. i am working as i always have, with no actual difference in my workflow. and i'm not alone.

things that are subject to human perception are not universal truths. apple itself obviously believes in tahoe (and yes, it's been good to see fine-tuning of the UI). for some of us, we work on our tahoe macs, and life goes on.
 
My laugh out loud moment for this morning. 🤣

Screenshot 2025-12-30 at 18.42.34.png
 
things that are subject to human perception are not universal truths.
Truth is based entirely on human perception, because knowledge is based on perception. We are what we receive.

For instance, that’s why the concept of time exists as fact, even though time itself is a human construct and bends relative to distance and speed. It is a fact that 1 second is the length that we have perceived it to be, as much as time being relative to one’s distance from the source of measurement.

Likewise, if a white control button is placed on a light background where before the button was black, it’s a fact that the contrast is now worse because of the limitations of our vision; therefore, the change was for the worse.

You can be philosophical about all this, but the truth is apparent and I think it would be more dignifying to accept these facts rather than repeatedly pointing out that we all have opinions and referencing dictionaries.

Many users will love Liquid Glass, great.
 
i hear you really. but not everyone sees the UI as horribly unusable. i am working as i always have, with no actual difference in my workflow. and i'm not alone.

things that are subject to human perception are not universal truths. apple itself obviously believes in tahoe (and yes, it's been good to see fine-tuning of the UI). for some of us, we work on our tahoe macs, and life goes on.
Sure, as long as you’re fine ignoring the constant complaints of people who are having issues with the new design from an extremely diverse range of people with different (and common) special needs.

People with issues with this design are talking about it. And you’re here arguing it high minded language that it’s just subjective so we should ignore them?

That’s absurd.

And again, design is all about human perception. That’s what I was talking about when I was talking about the decades of usability studies we have. That’s what “design is how it works” means. It’s not working for so many people because these rules were set up to prevent those people from having issues and Apple’s designers were more interested in “breaking the rules” than why those rules existed

No one said every single person is going to be negatively affected by this design. But the fact that Apple (and you, apparently) are perfectly fine ignoring the human perception of thousands of people does not change the fact that those people are struggling with this design and that’s why it’s a failure
 
Sure, as long as you’re fine ignoring the constant complaints of people who are having issues with the new design from and extremely diverse range of people with different special needs.

People with issues with this design are talking about it. And you’re here arguing it high minded language that it’s just subjective so we should ignore them?

That’s absurd.

And again, design is all about human perception. That’s what I was talking about when I was talking about the decades of usability studies we have.

No one said every single person is going to be negatively affected by this design. But the fact that Apple (and you, apparently) are perfectly fine ignoring the human perception of thousands of people does not change the fact that those people are struggling with this design and that’s why it’s a failure
nothing absurd at all about what i've said. i (and apple, for that matter) are not 'ignoring the human perception of thousands of people'. that sentence seems to fit the description of 'absurd'.

hopefully, apple will consider those with specific needs, and offer accessibility options... that might please others, too. but for those that simply don't like LG... you can find sympathetic posts in all the previous-OS forums on macrumors. or just wait until the next GUI drops, and have something new to stress over 🤷
 
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Sure, as long as you’re fine ignoring the constant complaints of people who are having issues with the new design from an extremely diverse range of people with different (and common) special needs.

People with issues with this design are talking about it. And you’re here arguing it high minded language that it’s just subjective so we should ignore them?

That’s absurd.

And again, design is all about human perception. That’s what I was talking about when I was talking about the decades of usability studies we have. That’s what “design is how it works” means. It’s not working for so many people because these rules were set up to prevent those people from having issues and Apple’s designers were more interested in “breaking the rules” than why those rules existed

No one said every single person is going to be negatively affected by this design. But the fact that Apple (and you, apparently) are perfectly fine ignoring the human perception of thousands of people does not change the fact that those people are struggling with this design and that’s why it’s a failure

What’s always funny in these exchanges is how high-minded language appears the moment users describe actual issues. Vocabulary gets loftier to make engagement thin and hard to access for observers, with responsibility carefully relocated somewhere abstract, authoritative, and safely out of reach. Obviously it's gotta be delivered with a tone of calm reasonableness to mask the derision.

Declaring an issue subjective is an especially conniving trick. It allows one to sidestep the inconvenient possibility that the problem isn’t taste, it's actual errors, while speaking on behalf of corporations that aren’t actually present. The posture remains impeccably polite, even friendly and helped along by a shrug or an emoji while empathy becomes weaponized and accountability is on the user experiencing the issue, not the broken software.

It's also fun to see how this concern turns hypothetical the moment it becomes impossible to ignore. Legitimate difficulty is acknowledged in theory, deferred to 'hopefully', and then reassigned to a switch somewhere in accessibility settings, a future update, or the next design cycle. The implication is: the system is fine; the users are the ones who need to adjust. Which is another way of saying the poor design offloads its problems onto the people least able to refuse them

That hypothetical-concern trick does a lot of work. It says 'nothing fundamental needs examination' while allowing one to appear reasonable, enlightened, and faintly amused by everyone 'panicking' - I'm not gonna go into the continuous gaslighting and lying. Those still struggling are reclassified as edge cases or as people who would be better served by waiting patiently, lowering expectations, and finding something else to worry about.

It’s a very tidy position that's designed to protect one's ego and trivialise any legitimate challenges to that ego, no matter how indirect. No one is ignored, just indefinitely deferred. And the distinction between “people with needs” and “people who are merely dissatisfied” remains elastic to expand or contract as needed, all while maintaining the outward appearance of courtesy.
 
What’s always funny in these exchanges is how high-minded language appears the moment users describe actual issues. Vocabulary gets loftier to make engagement thin and hard to access for observers, with responsibility carefully relocated somewhere abstract, authoritative, and safely out of reach. Obviously it's gotta be delivered with a tone of calm reasonableness to mask the derision.

Declaring an issue subjective is an especially conniving trick. It allows one to sidestep the inconvenient possibility that the problem isn’t taste, it's actual errors, while speaking on behalf of corporations that aren’t actually present. The posture remains impeccably polite, even friendly and helped along by a shrug or an emoji while empathy becomes weaponized and accountability is on the user experiencing the issue, not the broken software.

It's also fun to see how this concern turns hypothetical the moment it becomes impossible to ignore. Legitimate difficulty is acknowledged in theory, deferred to 'hopefully', and then reassigned to a switch somewhere in accessibility settings, a future update, or the next design cycle. The implication is: the system is fine; the users are the ones who need to adjust. Which is another way of saying the poor design offloads its problems onto the people least able to refuse them

That hypothetical-concern trick does a lot of work. It says 'nothing fundamental needs examination' while allowing one to appear reasonable, enlightened, and faintly amused by everyone 'panicking' - I'm not gonna go into the continuous gaslighting and lying. Those still struggling are reclassified as edge cases or as people who would be better served by waiting patiently, lowering expectations, and finding something else to worry about.

It’s a very tidy position that's designed to protect one's ego and trivialise any legitimate challenges to that ego, no matter how indirect. No one is ignored, just indefinitely deferred. And the distinction between “people with needs” and “people who are merely dissatisfied” remains elastic to expand or contract as needed, all while maintaining the outward appearance of courtesy.

You said this better than I ever could! It's such a great analysis of exactly that kind of attitude
 
nothing absurd at all about what i've said. i (and apple, for that matter) are not 'ignoring the human perception of thousands of people'. that sentence seems to fit the description of 'absurd'.

hopefully, apple will consider those with specific needs, and offer accessibility options... that might please others, too. but for those that simply don't like LG... you can find sympathetic posts in all the previous-OS forums on macrumors. or just wait until the next GUI drops, and have something new to stress over 🤷

If you hope Apple will address the complaints, why are you arguing with people talking about their issues?
 
What’s always funny in these exchanges is how high-minded language appears the moment users describe actual issues. Vocabulary gets loftier to make engagement thin and hard to access for observers, with responsibility carefully relocated somewhere abstract, authoritative, and safely out of reach. Obviously it's gotta be delivered with a tone of calm reasonableness to mask the derision.

Declaring an issue subjective is an especially conniving trick. It allows one to sidestep the inconvenient possibility that the problem isn’t taste, it's actual errors, while speaking on behalf of corporations that aren’t actually present. The posture remains impeccably polite, even friendly and helped along by a shrug or an emoji while empathy becomes weaponized and accountability is on the user experiencing the issue, not the broken software.

It's also fun to see how this concern turns hypothetical the moment it becomes impossible to ignore. Legitimate difficulty is acknowledged in theory, deferred to 'hopefully', and then reassigned to a switch somewhere in accessibility settings, a future update, or the next design cycle. The implication is: the system is fine; the users are the ones who need to adjust. Which is another way of saying the poor design offloads its problems onto the people least able to refuse them

That hypothetical-concern trick does a lot of work. It says 'nothing fundamental needs examination' while allowing one to appear reasonable, enlightened, and faintly amused by everyone 'panicking' - I'm not gonna go into the continuous gaslighting and lying. Those still struggling are reclassified as edge cases or as people who would be better served by waiting patiently, lowering expectations, and finding something else to worry about.

It’s a very tidy position that's designed to protect one's ego and trivialise any legitimate challenges to that ego, no matter how indirect. No one is ignored, just indefinitely deferred. And the distinction between “people with needs” and “people who are merely dissatisfied” remains elastic to expand or contract as needed, all while maintaining the outward appearance of courtesy.

Alright, fair enough. You’ve identified a real pattern in how people defend companies online.

If I got it right, you are basically claiming, : thatthere’s a specific rhetorical playbook defenders use. vocabulary inflation, subjectivity deflection, hypothetical concern, deferral mechanisms, and tone-policing… things that systematically relocate accountability away from the software and onto users.

Yes, this pattern absolutely exists. I see it constantly in tech forums. Someone says „I can’t find the button anymore” and three replies later we’re discussing Fitt’s Law and information architecture paradigms. The vocabulary does escalate. The „it’s subjective” move is often deployed to shut down conversation rather than acknowledge legitimate usability failures. And yes, „just wait for the next update/check accessibility settings/ file a bug” often functions as indefinite deferral rather than actual solutions.
The power dynamic you’re pointing to is real: users experiencing problems absorb the costs (time, frustration, workarounds) while defenders maintain the position that nothing fundamental is wrong.

But I think you’re overreaching: not everyone using precise terminology is performing elitism. Sometimes „cognitive load” actually is the accurate description, and accessible language would require three paragraphs. The question is context and intent - are they explaining or excluding?

„It’s subjective” can be a deflection, but preferences genuinely do exist in UX. The iPhone’s lack of a back button isn’t a bug - it’s a design philosophy some people hate. The trick is distinguishing between „this is taste” (minimalist UI) and „this is broken” (buttons that don’t respond). Defenders conflate these; you’re conflating them in reverse by treating all „subjectivity” claims as bad faith.

Which brings me to the actual problem 😎… you’ve diagnosed a discourse pattern but attributed it entirely to ego protection. What if - bear with me here - there’s something else happening: identity fuses with product choices. People who’ve invested in an ecosystem can perceive criticism of that ecosystem as personal attack. The rhetorical moves you’ve catalogued are defensive mechanisms, yes, but they’re not calculated manipulation. They’re psychological protection of sunk costs and self-concept.

Which doesn’t make them right, but it does make them different from the deliberate, strategic gaslighting you’re describing. Most defenders aren’t thinking „how do I trivialize this complaint?”. They’re thinking „this criticism feels wrong and threatening, let me explain why.”

I disagree with you on whether this pattern is conscious strategy or emergent behavior. Whether acknowledging edge cases is always dismissal or sometimes statistical reality. Whether the goal is ego protection or genuine (if misguided) attempts at problem-solving.

But you’re correct that the effect is the same either way: legitimate issues get indefinitely deferred, users absorb the costs, and nothing fundamental gets examined.


TL;DR: the pattern you’ve identified is real and worth calling out. I just think it’s more „defense mechanism” than „coordinated rhetorical strategy.”
 
If you hope Apple will address the complaints, why are you arguing with people talking about their issues?
i am agreeing that there's room for improvement (there's always room for improvement). am also ok working on my mac just as it is... am enjoying that experience.

no one is arguing that some ppl are having issues; this has been true with every mac OS.


EDIT: i don't love all of apple's choices; in fact, i've had the dock locked away since 10.3.9 (thru the terminal); that's 20 years. i don't use a lot of the features in the OS (stage manager, widgets, etc). but i have gotten my work done, comfortably, since tahoe beta 1. being able to work on my mac is my main concern. ps never owned an ipad or apple watch! but i love my macbook air...
 
True but it's very pretty. The key is using it intelligently. Sequoia was pretty much perfect at this. Liquid Glass is probably the worst example of translucency impacting readability that I've personally ever seen
I agree. From my perspective, Sequoia was simply a better user interface. No giant "look at me!" window corners or showy controls, no inset curvy rectangles where a sidebar makes more sense, etc. That was peak Mac, IMO.
 
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