iMac Last Updated 602 Days Ago, Longest Span Ever Between Updates

Discussion in 'MacRumors.com News Discussion' started by MacRumors, Jan 28, 2019.

  1. CWallace, Jan 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019

    CWallace macrumors 603

    CWallace

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2007
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    #251
    I expect Apple would not honor my AppleCare warranty if I brought my iMac 5K in with a large hole cut in the back for a high-end air or water cooler. :p

    And yet they still keep releasing new models, new form factors and new updates, even if not every six months like some desire/demand.

    And Mac revenues rose a record 9% last quarter because of it.


    Seriously, how many people would replace their Mac every six or twelve months just for a slightly better CPU or GPU? I did it once (5K iMacs) for the GPU (395 to 580) and even then, a year later I just bought an Alienware to play PC games and now wish I'd saved the money and kept my 2015 (and I received ~70% of my 2015's price back in re-sale).


    Even if Apple did update every six months and dump the old models to the Clearance Store like the PC vendors do, I don't expect Mac sales will suddenly quadruple and Apple will replace Dell and HP at the top of the charts. Dell and HP do it because the vast bulk of those extra PCs they sell are to companies and corporations to run Windows-based applications (their devs are likely on Macs or their PCs have Linux).
     
  2. Zdigital2015 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2015
    Location:
    East Coast, United States
    #252
    It's not that it is not without precedent, even for the iMac. However, the Retina 5K iMac has used different GPU families in each of its releases and I think that is the case here. Late 2014 (M290, M290X and M295X), Late 2015 (M380, M390, M395 and M395X), Mid 2017 (Pro 570, Pro 575 and Pro 580). I see Apple wanting to make the most of each release as the cycle times have lengthened. I really cannot imagine Apple releasing a new iMac at this point with 6 or 8 core CPUs and Polaris 20 GPUs. The RX590 (Polaris 30) was a low key release and by all accounts, it really only gives about a 15% improvement over the RX580, that it wasn't worth Apple's effort to consider. The same goes for the Vega 56 and 64 as this requires a new chassis (iMac Pro or a modified version of it) in order to dissipate the Coffee Lake CPU and the GPU heat.

    I think the new iPad Pros, iPhone XS Max and XR, MacBook Air, Mac mini and revised 13" and 15" MacBook Pros all consumed too much in the way of engineering resources to make the iMac a priority in 2018.

    That being said, Apple needs to make sure the next round of 21.5" and 27" iMacs are solid from top to bottom.
     
  3. Analog Kid macrumors 601

    Analog Kid

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
    #253
    Nice to see we can keep this civil...

    It's probably useful to start by putting your first and last comments side by side:
    You started by arguing that everyone buying a Mac understood detailed architectural details down to pipelining and clock rate, and ended by saying even the sainted CEO of Apple, Steve Jobs the Omniscient didn't really get it.


    Remember, the question you're disputing is whether Apple has target market in years gone by were the type of people who understood the difference between an i7 and i5 (beyond the basic 7 must be more than 5 analysis).

    I acknowledged this a few posts back, but advertising that your computer is faster than their computer is not the same as saying their target market understood details of processor architecture.
    Keynotes are directed at the press, not customers. To say "everyone" was aware of these details because they were in a keynote, in 2001, 4 years before YouTube was founded and just two years after Quicktime introduced streaming, is clearly exaggerating. Look at the MR thread from that keynote-- it has 103 comments, total. That's not broad exposure.

    And, of course, the fact that they need to explain this at all in a keynote demonstrates that they don't think the audience they're presenting to knows this information.

    There's a reason the benchmarks were Photoshop-- because that was a target market. Creative professionals. Their market doesn't care about speculative execution, their market cared if it would make their work faster.
    Further evidence that their users don't know the processor architecture details and that Apple intentionally hid that complexity.

    Of course, the question at hand was how well customer understand what i7 means. The G numbers represented generations. The i numbers represent strata within a generation and the distinctions change from generation to generation. Knowing this requires a significantly deeper level of understanding.

    I'd argue that the same fraction of printshop owners knew the Motorola part number in their computer then as know the Intel part number today, and that that fraction is small.
    Again, this isn't the processor name it's a simplified view of "generations" and it reinforces the idea that Apple only expected their target customers to be sophisticated enough to ask for the newest version of computer and to know that the new one is better than the one they have because the G-number is higher.
     
  4. HJM.NL, Jan 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019

    HJM.NL macrumors 68000

    HJM.NL

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2016
    Location:
    Netherlands
    #254
    Try any... you’ll find Windows 10 isn’t that bad and talks nice with iPhones/Android. First you’ll notice is that you get really good hardware for reasonable prices, then you notice that there are lots of equivalent programs. You’ll find good integration with mscloud services and if you’re using office for Mac, you’ll start noticing how much better it works under Windows and pages and numbers are a stagnant joke.

    All the adobe software is using the special capabilities ms is offering. Something you can’t say they”re eager to do on the Mac side anymore.

    For you as a teacher I’ll recommend the chromebooks. Just look at the possibilities it has to offer...you’ll notice why most teachers and schools are using chromebooks now and getting rid of the limited iPad. With the money they saved, they can do nice things with the students.

    Widen your live, there’s more than Apple.
     
  5. TinyMammal macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2019
    #255
    Doubtful.

    If this happens, I'll be thrilled, though.
     
  6. ROGmaster macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2018
    #256
    It is disappointing to see how little you understand computer hardware.
    Listing a bunch of meaningless low end CPU's doesn't make you right.
    I didn't know iMacs are just mediocre computers with medicare level hardware waiting for the most mediocre refresh Intel is capable of releasing.

    There are no holes man, all the low end CPU's you listed are trivial refreshes of the already existing 8 series CPUs.

    Irrelevant. Vega GPUs are currently not high end anyway.
    Saying that Apple decided that the Vega 56 and 64 are for the iMac Pro and this is the reason they can't use them for regular iMacs is just a random excuse that doesn't make sense.
     
  7. TinyMammal macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2019
    #257
    The only reason that's true is because Apple never updates Macs. I would have bought a new iMac / Mac Pro 3 years ago, but Apple was still shipping neutered machines that removed functionality in the new generation instead of adding functionality.
     
  8. netdudeuk macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    #258
    Let's agree though, that it is still a great looking machine.
     
  9. ROGmaster, Jan 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019

    ROGmaster macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2018
    #259
    There are PC manufacturers that were able to fit the i7 8700k in a laptop form factor no problem but I guess Apple doesn't have the same level of engineering excellence. Yeah Apple is just a very small and poor company unlike most PC manufacturers.
     
  10. HJM.NL macrumors 68000

    HJM.NL

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2016
    Location:
    Netherlands
    #260
    And this situation is not only disappointing for the Mac faithful but also holding off new wannabe customers for the Mac. Who on earth is going to pay the premium price for old technology?
    We don't expect a new form factor every year, but the minimum is getting the graphic cards, processors, SSD, screen, etc. up to date with todays standards. Every company manufacturing computers are doing it.

    I know Apple wants to drive people to the iPads, but as long those iPads can't replace the Macs it's not the way to do it.

    Someone mentioned it before... If Tim Cook & Co not interested in the Mac, sell it off to a company who is eager to invest and innovate in it.

    The Mac is an important part of our business my as s.
     
  11. Zdigital2015, Jan 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019

    Zdigital2015 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2015
    Location:
    East Coast, United States
    #261
    Apparently, I understand PC hardware way better than you do as well as Apple hardware and how Apple decides when updated models will ship. Read and learn.

    Apple currently uses the Core i5-7400, Core i5-7500, Core i5-7600 and Core i7-7700 (along with the Core i5-7600K and Core i7-7700K) in the 2017 iMac. If Apple's intent is to skip the 8000-Series CPUs altogether, then they are still waiting on Intel to announce and ship the equivalent 9000-Series successors, which has not happened. All Intel has shipped is the higher end unlocked K-Series, which Apple only uses in the top tier 27" iMac (i5-7600K) or as a BTO option (i7-7700K). Apple does not release CPU updates piecemeal as Dell, HP, Lenovo, et al. do. While you view them as trivial refreshes, Apple will still use these parts only once Intel announces and releases them, even if that means holding up the entire iMac product line. The same thing happened with the Mid-2017 iMacs.

    For Apple, this is as much a business decision as it is a technology one. Intel's chip supply issues are still a concern and they aren't expected to ease until mid-2019, so I expect that Apple is remaining cautious while Intel catches up with demand, and continues to fill out its CPU portfolio.

    I can see Apple using the 8000-Series in the 21.5" iMac as the supply situation seems much more stable, while keeping the 9000-Series for the 27" iMac. They did this with the Late 2015 21.5" (Broadwell) and 27" (Skylake) iMacs.

    The Vega 56 and 64 may not be high end any more, but they are the only ones shipping now, as the Radeon VII still has about a week before release and a GPU that expensive is not going into the regular iMac. If the Radeon VII is destined for the iMac Pro so be it, but that is not going to happen until Intel releases updated Xeon W CPUs based on the Basin Lake refresh X-Series.

    The W-3175X just got pricing today ($2999), and is simply too hot for the iMac Pro chassis. However, the main reason why an iMac Pro update is a ways off is that there have been zero signs that updated Xeon W CPUs (W-3xxx) are on the horizon. Until that happens, there is no meaningful upgrade to offer users.

    Right now, Apple is waiting on Intel to fill in the lower tiers of the 9000-Series, AMD to release 7nm Navi GPUs suitable for the regular iMac, Intel to release updated Xeon W-Series (up to 22 cores, if rumors are to be believed) and they will either use the Radeon VII (Vega Instinct) or something else that has not been released. Until those dominos fall, Apple is not going to update the iMac or the iMac Pro.

    Whether you think it is some random excuse or not is completely irrelevant to the facts I have laid out.
     
  12. lowkey macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    australia
    #262
    Well as an owner of both a 2015 MacBook and an i7 Huawei Matebook Pro (amongst other computers), I can tell you that the fit and finish in the MacBook is greater.

    The trackpad on the MacBook is much better. I would say the trackpad on the Matebook Pro is disappointing despite it being better than any other PC laptop I’ve touched.

    We bought the Matebook Pro to run Revit. A job that the MacBook can’t do. I’m not saying the Matebook is terrible. Far from it. It was the best 13” form factor PC laptop we could find. But to think it’s up to Apples level of detail and finish is wishful thinking. I’ve got them side by side.

     
  13. 123 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2002
    #263
    Well, it seems that you do not know what you are talking about, so there is really no point in pretending you do or "keeping it civil" as you call it.

    As for the rest of your erratic response, I have better things to do than arguing about unrelated and irrelevant macrumors post counts, or whether there was a world before youtube. Just one more thing:

    I didn't write a mathematical proof. In a macrumors post, "everyone" does not literally mean every person who has ever bought a mac. Just as "has always been" (your sentence) obviously does not include Apple's garage days. The point is that during the PowerPC period customers knew a lot more about the processors built into their Macs not least due to Apple actively advertising processor differences and educating their existing and potential customer base as well as the press and reviewers about architectural advantages. Because at the time that was a selling point. Also it did actually matter because ordinary tools, programs and the OS itself were much more CPU constrained.
     
  14. Soccertess macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    #264
    This is exactly MY point though.

    So many people on her use Apple Revenue growth and stock value as evidence to show how "Tim is doing a good job". AND THAT IS my problem, you can't have it both ways. Either Tim is down doing a bad job now, or the original metric that 80% of Tim Cooks followers have used is bogus!

    AND THIS has been going on here for the last 5 years! To be honest, I look at Apple products and I'm disappointed with them. That's how I know Tim is doing a crappy job.

    Also, I do think the decrease in sales in China is due to Apple not being as competitive as it once was, and if it had good products it would make it more immune to such external influences. And now that Apple products are so weak, small external forces can really swing sales!

    Tim, you are doing a horrible job! TIME TO RETIRE!
     
  15. Baymowe335 macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2017
    #265
    Tim Cook's job at Apple should be measured over time, not on a few quarters. That's the bottom line. We'll see what Apple does from here. Since he's taken over, he's done an incredible job and that's why he's still there.
     
  16. d0nK macrumors 6502

    d0nK

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Location:
    UK
    #266
    256GB in 2019 is an absolute joke.
    512GB bare minimum is still too small imo.
     
  17. PickUrPoison macrumors 68030

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2017
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, CA
    #267
    128GB is more than enough for me. I guess different users have different requirements?

    I have no interest in paying extra for the 1TB base system that you consider your “bare minimum”. I’ll stick with 128GB.
     
  18. T Coma, Jan 30, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019 at 1:57 PM

    T Coma macrumors 6502

    T Coma

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2015
    Location:
    People's Republic of Chicago
    #268
    My mid 2011 27" is running just fine with the extra (and easily added) RAM and SSD. I guess I should still have another 2 years at least, eh?
     
  19. ROGmaster macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2018
    #269
    I'm very familiar with Matebook Pro's built quality and I totally disagree.
    I guess there only needs to be an apple logo on something and it automatically has a better fit and finish.
     
  20. lowkey macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    australia
    #270
    More like if its got an Apple logo on it it must be crap LOL

    Glide your finger to the top corner of the track pad, then try to click. On the MacBook it clicks. On the Matebook Pro nada, nothing, no click...track pad does not respond. The trackpad also has a weird effect where the top surface feels like it floats slightly above another layer below. Every time you put a finger on it it depresses a little before being pressed a bit harder to make the click. It feels weird to use. The Matebook Pro's trackpad is vastly inferior in use and feel.

    On the Matebook Pro the USBC ports are not equally spaced from the top and bottom of the body enclosure, they are weirdly offset. On the MacBook [and MacBook Pros] they are smack bang in the middle. A much better looking detail.

    Don't get me wrong, the Matebook is by no means a bad laptop. It was certainly a step above any other PC we looked at. But I had expected it to be better than my 4 year old computer.

    Im happy for you to point out where you think the fit and finish of the Matebook Pro is better than the MacBook though...or is it just the logo design you like better?
     
  21. ROGmaster, Jan 31, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019

    ROGmaster macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2018
    #271
    Oh so that's it. OK
     
  22. lowkey macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    australia
    #272
    So there’s nowhere the fit and finish of the Huawei is better then?? I didn’t think so either.
     
  23. ROGmaster macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2018
    #273
    LoL think what you want.
     
  24. lowkey macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    australia
    #274
    For someone so familiar with the Matebook Pro's built quality you’re very tight lipped LOL
     
  25. ROGmaster, Jan 31, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019

    ROGmaster macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2018
    #275
    I don't feel like I need to bring foreword any arguments against what you wrote.
    But hey you did make me smile.
     

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