iMac Vs. Windows PC: What You Get For Your Hard Earned Cash |An In-depth Comparison

Discussion in 'iMac' started by MartinAppleGuy, Dec 31, 2013.

  1. MartinAppleGuy, Dec 31, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2014

    MartinAppleGuy macrumors 68020

    MartinAppleGuy

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    #1
    I have heard and read a lot about people saying iMac's are more expensive over Windows PC's and wanted to make a thread here to show the real colours of this argument; making it more clear for buyers. I have below several price and spec comparisons between the iMac and a Windows PC in several different terms (like All In Ones, Desktops, Build Your Own, Light Users and Heavy Users). For each comparison I have added the price of both the compared iMac and PC's price after 1,3 and 5 years. So I hope you enjoy the read, and hope that it allows for people to see the real difference in price between an iMac and a Windows based PC. Enjoy.


    First Comparison - iMac Vs. All In One Windows PC

    For this comparison, I have chosen to compare the entry level iMac to the best (similarly priced) Windows 8 All In One I could find; the HP Envy.​


    iMac @ £1,149/$1,299/€1,299

    Processor - Intel Core i5-4570S | 4th Gen Haswell | Turboboost's from 2.7GHz > 3.2GHz | 4Mb L3 Cache
    Cores - 4 Cores | 4 Threads
    RAM - 8Gb DDR3 1600Mhz
    GPU - Intel Iris Pro 5200 | 128Mb eDRAM
    Storage - 1Tb 5400 RPM Hard Drive
    Display - 21.5 Inch IPS Fully Calibrated | 1920 x 1080
    I/O - 4 USB 3.0 | 2 Thunderbolt | SD Card Reader | Gigabit Ethernet | Bluetooth 4.0 | Headphone Jack | No Optical Drive
    Wi-Fi - 802.11ac
    Camera - HD
    In the Box - iMac | Wireless Keyboard | Magic Mouse/Trackpad
    Operating System - Mountain Lion (with free upgrade to Mavericks)


    HP ENVY Recline @ £1,049.99/$1,199/€1,199

    Processor - Intel Core i5-4570T | 4th Gen Haswell | Turboboost's from 2.9Ghz > 3.6Ghz | 4Mb L3 Cache
    Cores - 4 Cores | 4 Threads
    RAM - 8Gb DDR3 1600Mhz
    GPU - NVIDIA GeForce GT 730A | 1Gb
    Storage - 1Tb 5400RPM Hard Drive
    Display - 23 Inch | Multi-point Touchscreen | 1920 x 1080
    I/O - 2 USB 3.0 | 2 USB 2.0 | SD Card Reader | Gigabit Ethernet | Bluetooth 4.0 | Headphone Jack | No Optical Drive
    Wi-Fi - 802.11 b/g/n
    Camera - HD
    In the Box - HP Envy | Wireless Keyboard | Wireless Mouse
    Operating System - Windows 8

    The higher end 21" iMac has spec's more similar to the HP Envy but I chose to compare the entry level iMac with it to keep the prices similar. The iMac costs £100 ($100/€100) more than the Envy and at an initial look (at least in terms of the processor and screen); the HP Envy seems like the better deal. The Envy features a processor more similar to the high-end 21" iMac (with an initial clock of 2.9Ghz, that Turboboost's to 3.6Ghz as well as a dedicated graphics card with 1Gb of video memory.) compared to the above iMac that only features a 2.7Ghz i5 with Turboboost to 3.2Ghz. Both All In Ones feature 4th Gen Quad-Core i5 processors with 4 threads (i.e no hyperthreading). Both All In Ones also feature a 1Tb 5400 RPM Hard Drive, which may not be the fastest, but offers great storage at cheep prices.

    But that is about it for the similarities as from here on, both computers are configured differently. The Envy features a discrete graphics card with 1Gb of video memory compared to the iMac's integrated GPU that comes with 128Mb of eDRAM. This is a big plus for the Envy as more graphically demanding tasks should perform better with a dedicated GPU. It should be noted that the Intel Iris Pro GPU featured in the iMac is no slouch, as tests have shown it can hold it's own weight. The iMac features better I/O and Wi-Fi connectivity than the Envy. The iMac has 4 USB 3.0 slots (fast data transfer speeds), where as the Envy only features 2 USB 3.0, then 2 USB 2.0 (slower data transfer speeds). What does this mean, transferring data (be it photographs, video, music...) from a USB to the computer will take longer on the Envy if the 2 USB 3.0 slots are taken up. The iMac also features 2 Thunderbolt ports allowing for 2 external Thunderbolt monitors to be connected. Another difference with the connectivity is the Wi-Fi. The iMac features the new 802.11ac, where as the Envy features the older 802.11 b/g/n. This means that with a 802.11ac router, the iMac will perform much faster in wireless activity compared to the iMac. I have also noticed the 802.11ac helped when the computer was placed further away from the router, which could be a very important factor for a buyer.

    Up until now, all that has been stated is slight changes; the following is where these two computers differentiate more.

    The iMac features a 21.5 Inch IPS screen at the resolution of 1920 x 1080. The Envy features a larger 23" touchscreen with a resolution of 1920 x 1080. First off, the increase in screen size can be seen as a positive and a negative as it is (obviously) larger, but due to the Envy featuring the same resolution as the iMac, the iMac has a greater pixel destiny. This will make everything on screen appear sharper that the Envy. The Envy does however feature a touchscreen, something the iMac does not. This makes the Windows 8 experience much better as without touch it feels in-intuitive. Another thing to note is how well the screens are calibrated when taken out the box. Most users won't calibrate their computer monitors to perfection so it is important that the "Out the Box" quality is good. Both screens are IPS (allowing for wide viewing angles as well as high response times). The Envy features a well calibrated monitor, but it can't touch the perfection of the iMac's calibrated monitor. In all tests, the iMacs monitor is so close to perfection (in terms of saturation, colour accuracy, brightness, Gamut average and white point average). The screen is so well calibrated out of the box, professional should be happy to use this machine without even re-calibrating it. In the end, the Envy's screen is very good but the iMac is on top.

    Now onto Pricing. In the initial prices, the iMac comes out more expensive by £100 ($100/€100), now lets look beyond that.

    The iMac (along with all new Macs) come with the following software:
    • iMovie
    • iPhoto
    • Pages
    • Numbers
    • Keynote
    • App Store
    • As well as others

    And the Envy comes with:
    • Windows Store
    • Beats Audio Console
    • A few games

    Looking above, I have only noted a small amount of software that comes preinstalled on each computer. It should be noted that the Envy (look most Windows PC's) comes with Crapware. This is software that has been installed on the computer taking up lots of space as well as slowing the computer down and is made hard (if not almost impossible) to remove. This can be removed if the user is willing to reinstall the OS but this can take several hours and can be very troublesome if the user struggles to get drivers for the PC (a good example is the drivers are on the internet, but you can't connect to the internet because you don't have the ethernet or wireless drivers). The Envy doesn't appear to bad with the crap ware installed, most of it is games that should be easy to uninstall.

    Moving on, the iMac comes with Pages, Numbers and Keynote for free (also known collectively as iWork). These are a the Word, Exel and Powerpoint of the Apple world. I have used them extensively and have had no problems with them and never had something I can do on Microsoft Office that I can't do on iWork. For the Envy side of things, it does not come with Microsoft Office, that will set you back £79.99 ($99.99/€99.99) a year for Office 365 or a one off fee of £190 (£229, €229) for the 2013 edition (that will not be up to date when a new one comes out, where as iWork gets free updates).

    I have also taken into account electricity costs. The iMac uses only 15W at idle. The average cost to run an iMac for a year is £8.06 The Envy on the other hand uses around £20-30 to run per year. This is on average usage.

    There is also Anti Virus Software to be taken into account. It is still a fact that you are less likely to get a virus on a Mac with out Anti-Virus than you are on a PC with Anti-Virus. So I'm not saying it is impossible to get a virus on a Mac, I just saying that you are still less likely than if using a PC with. You can still get AntiVirus for Mac, and is usually free compared to being on average £19.99
    for a PC.

    So here are the figures:

    iMac
    Initial Price - £1,149
    iWork - £0
    iLife (for Movie Editing) - £0
    Running cost per year - £8.06
    Anti-Virus - £0


    HP Envy
    Initial Price - £1,049
    Office(per year) - £79.99
    Office (One Off) - £199
    Movie Edit Pro - £39.99 (was £59.99)
    Running cost per year - £25
    Anti-Virus - £19.99

    Now, instead of just adding that up, I am going to add up different values depending on the user.

    Basic User​

    Wants to web browse, check emails, do social networking​

    1 Year
    iMac : £1,157.06
    Hp Envy: £1,093.99
    3 Year's
    iMac : £1,173.18
    HP Envy: £1,183.97
    5 Year's
    iMac : £1,189.30
    HP Envy: £1,273.95

    Contains - Computer, running costs and Anti-Virus.

    As you can see, for the Basic User keeping it for 3+ years, the iMac is cheaper than the Windows All in One Alliterative. I would say though that if you come under the Basic user, a cheaper Mac (like a Mac Mini or Macbook Air) or a cheaper Windows PC/Laptop would suit you better.

    Average User​

    Wants to do everything a Basic User does but also Work related things like documents...​

    1 Year
    iMac : £1,157.06
    Hp Envy: £1,153.99
    3 Year's
    iMac : £1,173.18
    HP Envy: £1,314.00
    5 Year's
    iMac : £1,189.30
    HP Envy: £1,364.00

    Contains - Computer, running costs, Anti-Virus and iWork/Office(365 for the one year user, One Off payment for the 3 and 5 year user).

    For the Average User planning to keep the computer for one year, both computer are similarly priced. For the average user that want's to keep longer than that, the iMac is much cheaper (with a difference of around £200).

    Heavy User​

    Wants to do everything an Average User does but also uses the system more and edits Video​

    1 Year
    iMac : £1,161.00
    Hp Envy: £1,218.97
    3 Year's
    iMac : £1,185.00
    HP Envy: £1,479.66
    5 Year's
    iMac : £1,209.00
    HP Envy: £1,738.89

    Contains - Computer, running costs(£30 instead of £25 as user is on more, £12 for iMac instead of £8.06), Anti-Virus, iWork/Office(365 per year), iMovie/Movie Edit Pro.

    For the Heavy User, the iMac is considerable cheap than the Windows based All in One.

    iMac vs Custom Build​


    For this comparison, I will compare the high end 27"(with upgrade to i7) iMac against a Custom Built Window's PC I configured at PC Specialist. I will also add the software from above as it is the Windows alliterative to the Mac's software.

    iMac @ £1,939.00/£2,199/€2,199

    Processor - Intel Core i7-4771 | 4th Gen Haswell | Turboboost's from 3.5GHz > 3.9GHz | 8Mb L3 Cache
    Cores - 4 Cores | 8 Threads
    RAM - 8Gb DDR3 1600Mhz
    GPU - NVIDIA GeForce GTX 775M | 2Gb Video Memory
    Storage - 1Tb 7200 RPM Hard Drive
    Display - 27 Inch IPS Fully Calibrated | 2560 x 1440
    I/O - 4 USB 3.0 | 2 Thunderbolt | SD Card Reader | Gigabit Ethernet | Bluetooth 4.0 | Headphone Jack | No Optical Drive
    Wi-Fi - 802.11ac
    Camera - HD
    In the Box - iMac | Wireless Keyboard | Magic Mouse/Trackpad
    Operating System - Mountain Lion (with free upgrade to Mavericks)

    Custom Built PC using PCSpecialist @ £2,058

    Processor - Intel Core i7-4771 | 4th Gen Haswell | Turboboost's from 3.5GHz > 3.9GHz | 8Mb L3 Cache
    Cores - 4 Cores | 8 Threads
    RAM - 8Gb DDR3 1600Mhz
    GPU - NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770M | 2Gb Video Memory
    Storage - 1Tb 7200 RPM Hard Drive
    Display - 27 Inch IPS Fully Calibrated | 2560 x 1440
    I/O - 2 USB 3.0 | 4 USB 2.0 | SD Card Reader | Headphone Jack | No Optical Drive
    Wi-Fi - 802.11n
    Camera - Microsoft WebCam 720p
    Contents - £80 tower, Microsoft Office Professional, Norton Anti-Virus 1 Year, Movie Edit Pro, Microsoft Touch Mouse, Arc Keyboard, HDMI, Asus 27" IPS Monitor
    Operating System - Windows 8.1 Professional
    Added better power supply and cooling which added around £130 to the price to make the computer quieter and cooler.

    And all of that would cost £1,729 with no software, no anti-virus...

    So in the end you get an uglier looking build PC for more money. The only way the Custom PC will be cheaper than the iMac is if you downgrade things or built it yourself.

    So here you have reached the end. And the question I now ask myself is "Are iMacs expensive?". Yes, they are. "Are iMac's expensive compared to similar PC's? No. Defianatly not. Remember that you don't just by the computer and sit it somewhere, you use it and using it costs money as well as the software you use. So now I better go; I don't want to find this year has cost me more than £8.06 for running my iMac :)
     
  2. Tumbleweed666 macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Location:
    Near London, UK.
    #2
    You omitted resale value.

    As an example a few years back I bought a PC (custom build high spec) for £1500. 3-4 years later, it was essentially worthless. Cost per year £430.
    Then I bought an iMac for £1200, 4 years later sold for £500. Cost per year £175
     
  3. Ccrew macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2011
    #3
    I don't think it's a "real difference in price"
    Skewed comparison in a few ways, not the least of which:

    Not comparing processor to processor, instead choosing just to match on price

    Office vs iWork is NOT an equal, just because you haven't run into issues says that you're not much of a user of it. Numbers alone can't come in the same vicinity of Excel. That being the case, and you're a lightweight user then Libre Office is free. That said, if you do go MS Office on subscription you haven't factored the free 25gb Skydrive Cloud storage that you'd have to pay for on the Mac.

    Many free antiviruses for Windows, so that you've just thrown in to try to make it less of a delta.

    Just a few things that popped right to the top. Those alone suck $120 US right off the top and make the 3 year and 5 year more meaningful. And you've only compared it to an HP, when there are other manufacturers like Dell that make similar machines at a lower price point.
     
  4. MartinAppleGuy thread starter macrumors 68020

    MartinAppleGuy

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    #4
    Then why don't you spend time on comparing to a Dell then. And I personally think that iWork is much better that Office in terms of usability. And that is the Mac version of Office.
     
  5. AnalyzeThis macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2007
    #5
    I think you are forgetting iLive app suite. There is nothing comparable on Windows. So if you into making music occasionally - there is nothing like Garage Band out there. iWork suite offers more than enough functionality for average students. MS office is like sledge hammer and nail. But then user could use Google docs for free on both PC and Mac.
     
  6. roadbloc macrumors G3

    roadbloc

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Location:
    UK
    #6
    If it comes with Windows 8, cross off your antivirus costs as there is no need for one. Windows 8 comes bundled with Microsoft Security Essentials which is probably the best damn antivirus for Windows anyway.
     
  7. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Location:
    Boston
    #7
    really at one point it was not that good, my wife incurred some viruses that I had to clean up with another package because she was running the Security Essentials. I'm not saying its bad now, but rather back a couple of years ago, it wasn't the best.
     
  8. roadbloc macrumors G3

    roadbloc

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Location:
    UK
    #8
    You probably have a point actually. When I said it was the 'best' I was actually referring to how seamlessly it integrates with Windows in the least annoying way unlike other antiviruses that have a habit of popping stuff up in your face. I have yet to actually ever stumble upon a virus, so for all I know, my W8 PCs are riddled with the damn things and I have no idea about it. :eek:
     
  9. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Location:
    Boston
    #9
    I'm still have win7 at work (using their work antivirus) and I have since converted my wife over to the dark side, i.e., OSX :D

    I wasn't sure if things changed since my last interaction with the antivirus package.
     
  10. Ccrew macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2011
    #10
    You clearly don't do much in an Office suite nor share documents in a mixed platform environment then.

    And I won't take the time to review the Dell because I'm not interested in a Dell, nor am I so much of a fanboy I need to take the time to claim a Mac is superior. Frankly, while I prefer Apple hardware, it's usually never as good a spec as more cutting edge stuff, most of which will be Windows.

    So you want to do a review, what needs to be compared is true performance numbers. Your example HP with it's better processor and dedicated graphics will outrun the iMac any day of the week.
     
  11. MartinAppleGuy thread starter macrumors 68020

    MartinAppleGuy

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    #11
    The "review" was to show iMac's are not as expense as some perceive. Anyone with reading skills would understand that. I am not a fanboy neither; in no way did I output that and embed it into my post.

    Hope you learn to increase understanding of snails is in reading through 2014 ;)

    ----------

    The "review" was to show iMac's are not as expense as some perceive. Anyone with reading skills would understand that. I am not a fanboy neither; in no way did I output that and embed it into my post.

    Hope you learn to increase understanding of analysis in reading through 2014 ;)
     
  12. MartinAppleGuy thread starter macrumors 68020

    MartinAppleGuy

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    #12
    I share documents between my mac, iOS devices and PC's using iCloud. The Office experience is crap on a Mac and seeing as that is my platform of choice, is nothing compared to iWork. iWork offers integration with the devices I use and that is what is important.

    And am I mentioned in the original post, the ENVY is more comparable to the iMac 21" high end (the one I have, spec bellow). The iMac I compared it to may have been slightly slower in CPU and GPU, but made up for it in Wi-Fi connectivity, I/O, screen quality, and materials used (aluminium rather than plastic). And as I also mentioned above, it features a lot of great software for free that is useful (compared to some crapware found on the Envy). That is what the slight increase of initial price is for.
     
  13. MartinAppleGuy thread starter macrumors 68020

    MartinAppleGuy

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    #13
    You are completely right. I have overheard people in the past how have been setting up a network on iMacs say " I don't see the point to Macs" and really don't see what their on about. It must be because that have no clue where the start button is (probably having the same issue on Windows 8; double joke!). Really I feel the other way around. Windows to me is pointless. Computers entered out daily life's to make them easier. Having to deal with anti virus, viruses getting in anyway, lag, slow downs, errors, unintuitive commands (like trying to find the shut down button in Windows 8 without help :) ), uninstalling crapware, driver issues, waiting 10 minutes for it to boot, another 30 seconds each for every program you wish to launch. I'm sorry but that is not making my life easier, it is probably shorting my life with stress! The amount of people I have seen in the past getting angry and Windows PC's due to the above reasons just goes to show that Windows contradicts what PC's should be doing; making out likes easier. Not harder. Happy new year.
     
  14. X-Ravin macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    #14

    Those must have been some terrible PCs. I love my iMac, but I ran Windows on everything up until recently. Never ran antivirus or anti-malware. Booted so fast from my SSD that I had to turn on autologin since the keyboard drivers hadn't even initialized by the time the login screen popped up. Programs were instant.

    No real performance difference between it and my brand new iMac. I switched because I like the OSX workflow, and I do think it is superior to Windows in that regard. But a high quality Windows machine with a similar price tag to an iMac should maintain the same performance.

    At the end of the day I still have to send documents in Office format for anyone to use them, I have to Bootcamp to play a game with friends, and I have to Parallels to use my trading software. Using OSX at work is a joke. I had the option to get a Mac but I decided on a Lenovo laptop instead. My coworkers with Macs are constantly having issues with Exchange, WebEx, VPN, etc.

    Don't get me wrong, I obviously love Macs, I have a MBPr, MBA, iMac, iPad and iPhone. But let's keep some perspective here that Windows isn't quite as bad as many people make it out to be here.

    Back to the OP, thanks for taking the time to do the numbers. I ran the numbers myself before I went with the iMac and found I'd only be saving a few hundred to build an equivalent PC, and it would have been a big ugly case and an ugly plastic monitor. Not to mention the numerous cables all over my desk. That alone was a huge selling point for me.
     
  15. Badrottie Suspended

    Badrottie

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #15
    This... When I bought a rMBP this year I am ready to sell my custom built AMD CPU and Radeon GPU and all that expensive stuff, nobody want to buy it I guess they all are old technology anyway. I think I will keep it for WHS anyway. :apple:
     
  16. Hookemfins macrumors 6502

    Hookemfins

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2013
    Location:
    Florida
    #16
    You left off intangibles.

    Personally I think Mac OS is better than Windows 8.1.

    Apple Care absolutely crushes HP in tech support. AC will go out of there way to assist with any part of computer, OS or Apple devices. HP will not. My father has an HP envy similar as above and HP tech support seems clueless. Plus with HP. You are calling overseas while AC is based in the US or Canada.
     
  17. r0k macrumors 68040

    r0k

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2008
    Location:
    Detroit
    #17
    Resale value is a good indicator of true value of a computer. Macs tend to hold their value. You can blame Apple for "holding the line" on price but you know what? If people wouldn't buy them, Apple couldn't "hold the line".

    Apple dropped the price of the iPad mini this year. By a whopping $30. Meanwhile there are 7 inch Android tablets available for $40 out the door.

    I have a specific example of resale value issues. I purchased an HP Elitebook for my daughter to use in high school. We had to buy it through the school specified vendor. It cost close to $2400. That was Fall 2009. In April 2010, I picked up an iPad for $500. Two years later, the school announced they were switching to iPad. They were offering to "buy back" the Elitebook for a whopping $52. Meanwhile my iPad was still worth something north of $300. It gets worse. I picked up a Black Macbook that was OLDER than my daughter's now worthless HP machine for about $400. It lasted ANOTHER two years until she started college and I gave her a new 13 inch MBP. Meanwhile that worthless HP thing is on my workbench helping to level my compound miter saw.

    There are some Windows boxes with better resale performance than that awful awful HP Elitebook. One example is Lenovo. Another is Dell. Still, there are none that I know of that hold their value like Apple gear. One factor is public perception. Another factor is ease of use and less time wasted on minutia like activation and antivirus.

    I must admit there are times when MS Office is absolutely required. iWork is great but it is missing a few features and sometimes fails to open documents. OpenOffice/LibreOffice are free but also have some limitations. Keep in mind that MS Office was first written for the Mac and I have found that the Mac versions are often better than the latest Windows version. I do own a copy of MS Office 2011 but it is collecting dust right now because I don't absolutely need it and I like iWork/LibreOffice better. Another option is to run MS Office in a virtual Windows box in Parallels or Virtualbox. This allows a user to have the capability of using MS tools without having to suffer with Windows the rest of the time.

    OSX is not perfect. Mavericks improved some things over Mountain Lion but Airport Utility is entirely too dumbed down. There are other little quirks that bother me about OSX but none of them bother me as much as Windows with its constant nagging me about updates, antivirus, inability to print on demand, lack of stability compared to OSX and Linux, freezes, nonsensical control panel layout, and most heinous of all the damnable registry.

    I could go on but I like OSX better and as a person with decades of computer experience I find it to be genuinely "better" for my use. I won't waste time flaming people who say Windows works better for them. How could I know? I will, however continue to testify that OSX works better for me. This is part of the value equation in picking a computer. Apple isn't simply selling me hardware, they are selling me my TIME back. Time I don't have to spend troubleshooting or clicking "are you sure" or dealing with activation or dealing with antivirus. It all adds up. Over a lifetime of use, it's like an extra year of retirement.
     
  18. MartinAppleGuy thread starter macrumors 68020

    MartinAppleGuy

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    #18
    Your welcome! That is a point I also want to make was that you sometimes spend a little more, sometimes a lot less on an iMac; but what you get is not inclosed in plastic! It has been a while since I have used a current high end tower PC, are they still as loud as they used to be?

    ----------

    I said earlier that I felt like iWork was better than Office. I really should re-word that. I only use Pages for basic tasks and because it is merges in with OSX (compared to Office which has the most stupid scrolling on Mac compared to every other application). Hardly use Numbers. But it is Keynote I feel is far superior over Powerpoint with all its better transitions and control over time and input. This is every apparent when I export to .ppt (powerpoint) instead of Keynote as all the effects look basic (as they don't has smoke effects, as precise timing...). Keynote is what makes iWork better for me. The other thing I dislike about Office is when the change the layout of the Workspace alot. Jumping from 2003 to 2007 then to 2012 Mac; everytime your lost. I will admit though; for the pro user that uses Spreadsheets and Documents over Presentations, Office is better.

    ----------

    The PC's were not that bad (although the Hard Drives could have been slow, but my iMac has a Hard Drive and is rapid so that is no excuse). An SSD changes the Windows experience. Windows XP was a great experience on almost any hardware. Vista was horrible on almost every hardware, and Windows 7 is good, but has it's flaws when compared to OSX. Windows 8 is like a concept car; it looks nice and fresh, but is in no way usable compared to the car you have(due to full screen apps on a 27" monitor :/ ) and should have never hit the public. Windows 8.1 fixed most things and made the experience better, but I hate it when people talk about Mavericks going free then Windows users say 8.1 was free to Windows 8 users; it was only a software update for god sake! It was only fixing the problems that users got from the original £100 the spend :)
     
  19. Ccrew macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2011
    #19
    I guess you'll really hate it then when you are made to realize that Mavericks is only available from the Mac App store, so to get to it you have to be running OSX, in essence meaning... It's an *upgrade*

    I think you've made your Apple bias clear though, so no need to admit it.It'll be some inane response like "what if I was running a Windows 7 machine not free then" In which case I'll respond that Coonsidering Microsoft still supports XP, how many 14 year old OS's and machines does Apple support - free or not?
     
  20. thejadedmonkey macrumors 604

    thejadedmonkey

    Joined:
    May 28, 2005
    Location:
    Pa
    #20
    Watch this:

    For Facebook, Email, and Office, I can get a Dell desktop...
    1TB HDD, 8gb RAM, Core i3. $479 + Monitor, Office, and Warranty. There's hardly any crapware on Dell desktops, and anti-virus is free from Microsoft.
    The grand total is $828.97.



    Now let compare a laptop:
    I obviously don't need a monitor, but I added Office and a 3 years warranty and 3 years of accidental protection coverage. Total: $707.98.

    If you don't need a retina screen for Facebook, why spend the money to get one? For many people, all they need is a keyboard monitor and enough processing power of a smartphone. And Apple will never provide a computer like that.
     
  21. X-Ravin macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    #21
    Ah yes I forgot to mention that I can't stand the Windows 8 interface on a desktop. On a media computer it's actually quite nice. Vista, with a couple of tweaks, ran great actually. I used it from release day until Windows 7 release day and I was quite happy. But I think I was one of the few haha! Windows 7 was a very solid OS, I've been quite pleased with it.

    MS's pricing model for Windows is archaic at this point. No other mainstream OS's cost money. OSX, iOS, Android, Linux, all free. Now one could argue that MS isn't making money off the hardware like Apple, and this is true, but it is still an archaic pricing model either way and it will attract alternatives to begin encroaching on their market share. Which as we all know is already happening.

    As for high end towers, they are far quieter than they used to be. Chips run much cooler than the P4/Core/1st gen i5/i7 days and thus require far less airflow. Add SSDs into the mix and you have a very quiet tower. Now you will get some noise with a big GPU going full blast in a game, but you'll also get a lot more performance than you will with an iMac.
     
  22. MartinAppleGuy thread starter macrumors 68020

    MartinAppleGuy

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    #22
    What I meant, is that people think it is great that 8.1 is free, a software update; not upgrade. That is more like mentioning OSX 10.9.1 is free. Apple supports back 7 years with MacBook Pros and iMacs (and I think the 06 Mac Pros too). We don't know if these will still be supported next year or not but that is a good run.

    OSX was a paid for upgrade; just like windows 98, me, xp, vista, 7 AND 8. I'm running XP, but also see lots windows vista and 7 users. Microsoft are denying Vista people to get upgrade from what should never have happened (just kidding :) ). The point is, unless Microsoft change, which they probably won't, Windows 9 will be paid for.

    ----------

    I have had 2 Dell laptops; both filled with crapware. Had to reinstall the OS, then the driver disk Dell gave me never had all the drivers. The network drivers were online, and to get online I need the network drivers. Find the problem in that!

    I did note what if you can under a basic user, that you might not to go for a Mac, all I done was show that when compared to a Windows all in one, it was cheaper at the 3 years onward for most basic of users. And not to mention the difference in quality (plastic vs aluminium, tricky :) ).

    ----------

    Thanks for the info, just haven't had a shot of a high end tower in a long time :) I feel Microsoft are going out if you don't think of something fast. PC sales dropping, less need for their OS, can you image if all they had was their Windows Phone, and Office. Next year is supposedly a big year for Apple, lets see how things play out...

    I agree on your point that they don't sell hardware, so they sell hardware.

    And I used Vista I little, never touched OSX for me, but want too bad. I just liked it as it made those hardcore Microsoft fans realise there perfect world was, well not so perfect lets say :)
     
  23. gnasher729 macrumors P6

    gnasher729

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    #23
    Not from what I hear. OK, what I hear is that Microsoft Security Essentials isn't very good and doesn't detect lots of threats. Obviously it can be quite bad and still the best available.

    And so far everyone who I talked to who used Windows 8 and isn't a complete geek hated it, hated it, hated it. Not disliked it, but hated it.
     
  24. ohbrilliance macrumors 6502a

    ohbrilliance

    Joined:
    May 15, 2007
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    #24
    For me, I would also factor in productivity. At a rough guess, I'm more than 50% more productive on a mac than on a PC. Let's say that works out to $100 productivity loss per day on a PC, multiply that by 1,000 working days over five years and we're at $100,000 difference in value between the two.
     
  25. Ccrew macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2011
    #25
    Really depends on what you do with it though. I'm pretty agnostic in that I have both platforms, but since I'm in IT I administer a lot of Windows servers. Having all the administration tools as native applications on a computer makes me 200% more productive on a Windows 8.1 machine.

    That said, while we have 800 or so Mac's on the network, their interoperability in the enterprise space beyond authentication, printing and sharing files isn't really all that. Now you're having to deliver applications to the desktop with RDS or Citrix or similar, and supporting an infrastructure that handles that which is a huge offset in time, cost and materials. OSX is hugely more a consumer centric OS than an enterprise one. So when comparing productivity loss you can't just take the slice that benefits your argument.

    And say what you want about OSX vs Windows, but even moving from the Enterprise space you won't see OSX as a high end gaming platform either.

    ----------

    Last supported OS on an 06 Mac Pro is Lion. And they killed off newer machines than that.
     

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