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subjonas

macrumors 601
Feb 10, 2014
4,387
4,419
I like the concept Of wireless charging. But I really don't see the need for this personally. I have no need for wireless charging with a dock or charging mat. It's Not anymore convenient for me, as I much prefer using the lightning cable. And At least if it's connected to the lightning cable, I could still use it while it's charging.

Until we see the addition of long range wireless charging, then my interest will be more Piqued.

And if it's not long range I don't really see a point in wireless charging. don't see a huge difference in placing on a charging dock vs plugging in a charger.

Not excited about this type of wireless charging... I still need to put it at a specific spot to charge. Lightning cables are so easy to connect, I really don’t see the advantage of charging pads. With a cable it can charge while I hold an use it.

What I would like is true contactless wireless charging.

I, like hundreds of millions of other smartphone users, commonly use my device while it is plugged in, charging. I lay in bed with it charging almost daily. It's pivotal to usability.

(assuming all these rumors are true)
For one, the lightning port will still be there, so no worries. It's an optional charging method that will be sold separately; no one is being forced. Two, a charging puck at the end of a cable like the Apple Watch charger would provide the same advantage you all speak of (being able to use it while charging) along with the new methods of charging (dock, mat, etc). So since the added advantages of inductive charging--not requiring sight nor two hands to plug in and saving wear and tear on the lightning port (as worthless as these advantages seem to be to some)--don't take away from the advantage of lightning in any way, I'm not sure what there is left to disagree about--except maybe the name of this charging method.
 

Deadman64

macrumors 6502a
Jun 2, 2008
650
157
it doesn't connect via a wire to your phone. It charges your phone. Wireless. Charging.

As for usability, I always see comments like this and don't really understand them. How long are people's lightning cables that they are taking calls or using their phone while charging? Its making me think of crazy long cables like the phone on the wall in Roseanne (now theres a random reference). I like to keep my house at least a little tidy so our lightning cables are fairly short (at least the part that comes out from behind the cupboard. I could probably browse the web while hunched over, but I couldn't take a call - realistically I'd remove the cable to use it, so not any different from wireless charging.

Conversely if I'm going to be needing to use the phone soon, I often won't bother plugging it in - no it isn't difficult, but it can be a bit annoying (would love a magsafe style charger..). A wireless mat where I'd put the phone down anyway? Its charging regardless.

It's contact based wireless charging. That's really the terminology that should be used going forward (IMO). If we had to sit our phone on a mat to use WiFi we wouldn't be content calling that wireless internet per say. If I can't walk around with it, it's not a functional wireless. It's an in between technology with little benefit (IMO).

I have a 10 foot and 5 foot cable around my house, like one at my couch where I sit so I can easily charge and use my phone. I'm with you though haha, I try to hide them in the couch cushions, etc. so they seem to just appear when you need to juice up and watch TV at the same time.
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Yeah, Energous' CEO keeps claiming FCC approval is right around the corner. Thus far, only the mini transmitter (charging mat) has been cleared by the FCC. Here's an enlightening article about Energous. Bit long, but enlightening nonetheless.
Thanks! I'm pretty up to date (I'm a shareholder) but more info is always welcome. Their solution is just so clean I don't know why Apple wouldn't use it. Especially the fact that the receiver works with the mini, midsize and full size Tx. Then when the wireless charging at 15' away is ready, all of our 2017 iPhones will magically be compatible.
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Using your phone while charging puts more strain on the charger and battery and takes longer to charge.

I have my iPad charger hidden under my couch (where I'm usually charging and using my phone concurrently) so I'm getting the extra current to overcome that hurdle. I'm also usually using wifi when charging instead of LTE so less drain there.
 
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macduke

macrumors G5
Jun 27, 2007
12,351
17,702
Central U.S.
Phil Schiller "Available June 15th, at just $129, we think you are gonna love this."
Phil Schiller on NFC and wireless charging:

It’s not clear that NFC is the solution to any current problem, Schiller said. "Passbook does the kinds of things customers need today."

As for wireless charging, Schiller notes that the wireless charging systems still have to be plugged into the wall, so it’s not clear how much convenience they add. The widely-adopted USB cord, meanwhile, can charge in wall outlets, computers and even on airplanes, he said.

"Having to create another device you have to plug into the wall is actually, for most situations, more complicated," Schiller said.

Story: https://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/1...ireless-charging-and-the-lightning-connector/

Of course Apple went on to create Apple Pay which uses NFC. And this summer they opened up NFC to developers in iOS 11. In the past they famously said they wouldn't make a "video iPod" or an iPad Mini. So we're definitely getting this "complicated" wireless charging pad system, lol. Why? Because Apple is realizing that growth is in accessories. The smartphone market is becoming saturated, so you need to come up with as many accessories as possible. I've noticed this become a trend since Angela Ahrendts joined the company. It's why they have a $129 leather pouch for the iPad. Why sell one method of charging (cables) when you can sell two (cables and pads)? Hopefully the iPhone Pro will get one in the box, but I'm not going to hold my breath. Then in another two years they can sell true wireless charging transmitters to put around your house. It will be a big selling point of the next redesigned iPhone.
 
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69Mustang

macrumors 604
Jan 7, 2014
7,889
15,034
In between a rock and a hard place
Thanks! I'm pretty up to date (I'm a shareholder) but more info is always welcome. Their solution is just so clean I don't know why Apple wouldn't use it. Especially the fact that the receiver works with the mini, midsize and full size Tx. Then when the wireless charging at 15' away is ready, all of our 2017 iPhones will magically be compatible.
I really hope that investment pans out for you. Seriously, I do. Reading the words of the CEO, I'd be much less confident than you in investing in Energous. But hey, you can't win unless you're in the game.:) I do think it's good he's tempering expectations regarding what their products can actually do. A lot of casual fans think this is going to be the next best thing to sliced bread, but reading what he said makes me think a lot of people are going to be disappointed with what gets delivered. From the article:
Above all, Energous has backed down from its 2015 vision of phones charging up in our pockets.

“Several watts at a distance? No,” Gordon Bell told me. “As we’ve learned a lot more, we’ve tempered that [claim] down. We talk about 5 watts at a very close distance, but not at distance anymore. It’s more of a trickle charge for a phone. Now, if you’re constantly on the phone, 15 feet from the transmitter, that’d be hard for us to increase the battery. We’d just keep it from going down.”

And sure enough: During my return visit, Energous never demonstrated its transmitters charging a phone — only low-power gadgets.
 

Infiniverse48

macrumors 65816
Jun 28, 2017
1,055
963
Energous and Apple are most likely partnered. But outside of the charging mat, I have a strong feeling Apple fans are going to be disappointed with what Energous is offering. Basically at a distance weak trickle charge. Not my words, words of the CEO https://finance.yahoo.com/news/investigation-air-charging-hoax-174529738.html
Long read, but pay attention to what the CEO says: trickle charge on distance, one device at a time.
That's the reality of distance charging no matter what. I think it's understood or should be, that distance charging is essentially charging sort-of all the time in a tiny amount, without the user even thinking about it. That's the point to me
 

briko

macrumors regular
Oct 20, 2015
113
418
No!, I am American, I answer before I ask questions, I love Jesus, the earth is 6000 years, and I'm not able to point any country on the map except America.

That's what we Europeans think about the average Americans and it seems to make sense after all...

But I see your point :)

Why is it okay to criticize a whole group just because you had a negative interaction with an individual of that group?

America is a melting pot. There are many different types of people here. Plus, Apple is an American company.

And criticisising someone's religion? That's very insensitive. Instead of promoting stereotypes, let's find opportunities to be kinder to each other. :)
 

cdrake118

macrumors newbie
Aug 17, 2017
1
0
I am not a big fan of the idea of having to set my phone on a pad to charge it. At that point I can't really use my phone anymore and it is less convenient than having it plugged in via usb.

I am really hoping Apple incorporate's facial recognition from Omisego.
 

HoosBruce

macrumors 6502a
Oct 21, 2013
783
590
I have zero interest in Inductive charging for my iPhone, especially if it’s an extra accessory I have to buy.

Also, stop calling it wireless. It’s not.
 

Crzyrio

macrumors 68000
Jul 6, 2010
1,537
1,005
something must have changed after phil schiller said wireless charging was useless.

Apple's strength is in not living in the past and keeping their ego afloat. The fact they will go against everything they otherwise said in the past is what keeps them alive today and not another blackberry
 
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its93rc

macrumors 6502a
Feb 8, 2012
528
491
Texas
Not excited about this type of wireless charging... I still need to put it at a specific spot to charge. Lightning cables are so easy to connect, I really don’t see the advantage of charging pads. With a cable it can charge while I hold an use it.

What I would like is true contactless wireless charging.

I agree, however, I do see where these could come in handy: coffee shops, airports; any public place imaginable.
 

zone23

macrumors 68000
May 10, 2012
1,986
793
I can't decide if most of you are living in the stone-age or if your all just brainwashed.. I'm thinking stone-age. Seriously you have to plug your phone in to charge it?? WOW!
 

farewelwilliams

Suspended
Jun 18, 2014
4,966
18,041
Apple's strength is in not living in the past and keeping their ego afloat. The fact they will go against everything they otherwise said in the past is what keeps them alive today and not another blackberry

or maybe they figured out a good use case for wireless charging instead of the current implementations by android phones.
 

kdarling

macrumors P6
What? If it's INDUCTIVE ITS GARBAGE. We don't need to hear what Apple says. Apparently you don't understand what inductive charging is. Worthless.

Not worthless. The same type of charging is used by the Apple Watch.

All of you saying you see no need for this, have obviously never owned a phone that charged this way. It's really luxurious to be able to just place a phone down on a charger any time you want, and not worry about finding the end of a cable... or for that matter, having to constantly buy poorly designed Apple lightning cables that fall apart.

OTOH, if you're constantly using your iPhone while it's charging, then yes you simply continue to use a cable. The wireless option won't affect you one bit.
 

Analog Kid

macrumors 604
Mar 4, 2003
7,342
8,012
For me it’s true wireless or nothing.
it really should not be called wireless.
I do know that, I was just expecting more. Like the "real wireless charging" thing...
Also, stop calling it wireless. It’s not.
This makes me crazy every time we have this discussion. Wireless==no wire. Wireless charging means you don't need to connect the device with a wire. It's simple. Stop changing the meaning of words as rhetorical tool. There's other ways to say what you mean-- short range wireless, for example. Even "inductive" is sufficiently clear until someone comes up with a way to counter the fact that the H field falls off with r^4 in the near field.

What I would like is true contactless wireless charging.
Energous has FCC approval for the contact-based charging
It's contact based wireless charging. That's really the terminology that should be used going forward (IMO).
And this isn't the other way. It's going to cause confusion given that inductive wireless communications (NFC) for point of sale is called "contactless payments".

Again, contact isn't needed. The fields travel through the luminiferous aether.
Apple wont call this wireless charging.
It's hard enough getting anyone else to call it wireless...
 
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69Mustang

macrumors 604
Jan 7, 2014
7,889
15,034
In between a rock and a hard place
or maybe they figured out a good use case for wireless charging instead of the current implementations by android phones.
It's wireless charging. What other use case do you think Apple can come up with for wireless charging besides, you know, wireless charging?

Apple is well known for disparaging tech right up until the point they introduce it. It's marketing, pure and simple. Just like they already use the same wireless Qi charging tech that Android phones use. They use it in the Apple Watch charger.
 
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BorderingOn

macrumors 6502
Jun 12, 2016
483
466
BaseCamp Pro
My first thought exactly: I can't make out the scale of these components (couldn't the leakers have put a coin or sth next to the parts?! ;) ) so they may as well be made for Apple Watch, right?
P.S.: I know that wireless charging components need to be round.

I think the notch with pads gives it away. The layout of this makes no sense for an inductive charger. You're going to make the back of the phone glass to transmit the field through to the...metal encased coil?? Having a circuit board between the back and coil makes no sense if you say just flip it over.
 
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Analog Kid

macrumors 604
Mar 4, 2003
7,342
8,012
Apple could adopt that wireless charging tech in the matt itself. So the charging matt could be wireless.
It would be the answer for apple in keeping the iphone cheaper and to have more space in the iphone itself, and let people pay extra for the newest tech. While keeping volumes in check because of this new tech and low yields.
And then it's turtles, all the way down!

Yeah, Energous' CEO keeps claiming FCC approval is right around the corner. Thus far, only the mini transmitter (charging mat) has been cleared by the FCC. Here's an enlightening article about Energous. Bit long, but enlightening nonetheless.

Thanks for that link. I love the part of the first video where it shows "3mW"...

Nothing I see suggests a solution for phones. Charge a keyboard from 1m away? The 5m system was described as "trickle charging" a TV remote.

There are very few bands where you can put more than 1W in the air total, even with a pencil beam, you'll get a fifth of the current you get from the little iPhone charge block. The FCC won't waive that limit for a device you keep in your pocket without out comprehensive biological testing.
That's the reality of distance charging no matter what. I think it's understood or should be, that distance charging is essentially charging sort-of all the time in a tiny amount, without the user even thinking about it. That's the point to me
Yeah, but assuming they're under part 15 (and part 18 seems like a heck of a stretch for something like this in an open room), they've got 1W of total radiated power. At 15ft, that's 3mW/m^2. The entire surface area of the iPhone 7+ is 0.01m^2, so you're starting from 30µW. Since the effective antenna won't be the full size of the device, you need to knock that back further. You can use a directional antenna, but once you get past 6dBi you need to reduce the conducted power by 1dB for every 3dB you add in gain-- and a mass produced array won't be near 100% efficient. So maybe every doubling in the number of antennas increase your power delivery by 1.5dB, or about 40%.

Let's say by some crazy amount of persistence, you get to 1mW of charging power: you'd do better by replacing a CR3032 coin cell once every 5 weeks.

And if they do manage part 18 approval, and they take a microwave oven and remove the shielding then focus all of the output through a phased array at the phone in your pocket, these conservative calculations only get them to 1W delivered to the device...
 
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Crzyrio

macrumors 68000
Jul 6, 2010
1,537
1,005
or maybe they figured out a good use case for wireless charging instead of the current implementations by android phones.

As much as I would like to believe that, I don't think there is any tech out there to make wireless charging any better.

But we'll find out next month
 

CarlJ

Contributor
Feb 23, 2004
6,822
11,839
San Diego, CA, USA
But outside of the charging mat, I have a strong feeling Apple fans are going to be disappointed with what Energous is offering. Basically at a distance weak trickle charge.
They had a much faster distance charge almost working, but the orbital microwave laser involved had the unfortunate side effect of occasionally vaporizing the phone's owner.
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Yeah, but assuming they're under part 15 (and part 18 seems like a heck of a stretch for something like this in an open room), they've got 1W of total radiated power. At 15ft, that's 3mW/m^2. The entire surface area of the iPhone 7+ is 0.01m^2, so you're starting from 30µW. Since the effective antenna won't be the full size of the device, you need to knock that back further.
So, basically Apple would do better by covering the back of the phone with solar cells and having you lay it face down under any nearby desk lamp.

(Reminds me of a very old proposal to keep humans warm in a house with very low power microwaves - instead of heating all the air in the house, you just heat the humans [via the water they contain] directly.)
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I'm willing to put money down the pad will cost $79.99.
If it does follow an industry standard, there may quickly be cheaper fully compatible pads available, with no need for a MadeForiPhone program to qualify them. Though, undoubtedly, Apple's will be "the best charging pad we've ever made".
 
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allenvanhellen

macrumors 6502
Dec 8, 2015
416
909
I like the concept Of wireless charging. But I really don't see the need for this personally. I have no need for wireless charging with a dock or charging mat. It's Not anymore convenient for me, as I much prefer using the lightning cable. And At least if it's connected to the lightning cable, I could still use it while it's charging.

Until we see the addition of long range wireless charging, then my interest will be more Piqued.
I though that way until I got an Apple Watch and especially the magnetic charging dock. It's nice being able to just lay the Watch down on the dock and not have to find a charging port, especially at night.
 
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farewelwilliams

Suspended
Jun 18, 2014
4,966
18,041
As much as I would like to believe that, I don't think there is any tech out there to make wireless charging any better.

But we'll find out next month

it's not about making the technology better, but how you will use it.

for example, how about stack all of your apple portable devices and they'll all start charging in one place? stack macbook, then ipad, then mouse/trackpad, then iphone, then airpods and watch? that way you only use one outlet, you only need one wire, you don't take up that much space, you can charge your entire family's devices, and it is super portable (less things to pack for a trip).

right now, the use case of wireless charging by some of these android devices doesn't solve a huge issue.
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It's wireless charging. What other use case do you think Apple can come up with for wireless charging besides, you know, wireless charging?

Apple is well known for disparaging tech right up until the point they introduce it. It's marketing, pure and simple. Just like they already use the same wireless Qi charging tech that Android phones use. They use it in the Apple Watch charger.

maybe you can stack all of your apple portable devices to charge them all at once using one outlet and one wire. that'll be one use case on how it can be improved. see above.

if they were planning on using Qi charging in iPhone with the same use case as what Android phones do, they would have already done it. there has to be some sort of UX improvement that Apple figured out with Qi charging.

it was necessary in the watch for water/sweat resistance. watch could break if you plugged it in right after sweating/swimming using a lightning port.
 
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