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With so many people complaining about the lack of travel on the newer keyboard i do wonder how they use an iPad or iPhone with zero travel, they must be impossible to use.

Well, I for one do have a hard time typing long texts (and blindly and fast) on my iPad. iPhone is differently is I only type with one finger...
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What makes you think it won't be illuminated on the new MacBook Pro's?

MB. And rumors.
 
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I really hope it has haptic feedback like the trackpad. Already having the "esc" key shifted over half a key is going to be annoying.
Yeah, that's something I noticed right away... why would escape be shifted over? Maybe it's only shifted for this particular operation mode(??)... I mean, it does say "Cancel", not "esc", which suggests that it's not, strictly speaking, an escape key (at least not in this mode). Actually, it could even be a defensive measure, in certain cases—i.e., to move that corner function key for cases where Apple deliberately doesn't want an accidental esc performed. Maybe?... that could make sense, in certain situations...
 
And? Have you yourself managed to memorize what F8 does in this context?
Yes, but I have to admit it took a long time. I even put a sticker on my keyboard but now I've got them memorized. It's weird though, because I do remember shortcuts from the time I used Windows (29 years ago), like Alt-F4 to quit a program.
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But in 2016 how many USB devices do people actually use?
I'm very careful with my wrists so I have a special keyboard and mouse. Both USB. Then I've got a printer, the USB based ethernet adapter from Apple, an USB hard drive for Time Machine and Logisch speakers which route audio over USB.

But then again the great thing is, they're all connected to a hub. Simply replace it with a USB-C connected hub and I'm golden.
 
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Looks like it might be good for shopping.
Not so good for programmers - is this really their "Pro" device?

Perhaps I should wait and see, but one way of another I need an escape key.
 
Lol yourself. Please don't go criticizing me. It's the height of arrogance and act of being close minded. Ever considered there are new, smart and better ways to use a laptop??? MacBook knows exactly when you're operating the trackpad for larger screen work or using the multitouch display for specific tasks. Game consoles solve this a decade ago or more. AS ONE CONSIDERATION, EVER CONSIDERED THE ISIGHT CAMERA TRACKS YOUR EYE POSITION TO DETERMINE WHETHER YOU'RE INTERACTING WITH THE LARGER DISPLAY OR THE MULTITOUCH TRACKPAD? It's a little thing called intelligent software and hardware human interaction. Have a nice day friend.

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No offense intended. However you cant assume everyone to just understand your idea by just posting a simple image.

I sight camera idea is clever, but has battery issue and algorithm issue. Cameras use HUGE amount of energy. Also, sometimes you might want to use the display trackpad as you're looking in the monitor as well (like the second video editing image you posted). Algorithm to automatically switch based on eye movement may be very difficult.

I'm assuming that you're talking about Nintendo DS and Wii U when u said "gaming console". Those devices' main inputs are NOT the secondary display. Their main input are the button (Joy stick, buttons etc). Thus they were able to "add" additional display as "more" way of input, but not the main way of input.

The image you supplied might not have really demonstrated the purpose well. I guess it may still work, as long as it leaves a SPACE for tracking finger (for mouse) OR adding a button to SWAP between trackpad and secondary display simultaneously.

The second image, video editing timeline thing, kind of misled me to think in a myopic way, but if the manufacturer finds out a way to effectively use the secondary display as well as a trackpad, it may actually work.

My conclusion is that it may work, but not by the way ur images depicts. We need better battery tech to begin with to implement your description. If not, it wont work in a LAPTOP where power consumption is critical. Just my 2c.
 
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You're speaking of preference and opinion, neither of which are truth.
No, I'm speaking about the human brain and its capabilities to memorize. You're trivializing the debate by making it to be about mere opinions, about which I never cared at all. Keep your opinions to yourself, I don't want to hear about them. Give me the facts of life or don't talk to me at all. We (humans) like stuff, because it works well with our biology. Our bodies differ a little bit between individuals, but not enough to not reduce every computer category down to two or three different sizes that fit all (of mankind).
I don't need an argument to support my view.
And there you've lost the debate.
I simply disagree with you in that other people have different needs and uses than you and that's not some crazy idea.
Nobody needs Function keys, they are simply a means to an end. If the same result can be reached on a simpler way, they are redundant. Sometimes Apple fails to make things simpler and then we get to make jokes like this.


But because other manufacturers don't even try to make computing easier, Apple products are always the easiest to use. If you like it or not, people will keep paying top dollar no matter how many keys the Ghost of Steve Jobs rips out of the MacBook keyboard. And the whole industry will follow suit. Look at all the keys already gone: Enter, Clear, Home, End, PgUp, PgDn, FwdDel, F13, F14, F15, F16, F17, F18, F19, a whole NumPad and the right Ctrl key.
You spoke for everyone ... and you're not everyone.
Albert Einstein wasn't everyone and yet he spoke for all of space and time. GPS satellites wouldn't work if that one man wouldn't have spoken the truth. Your flatearthers opinion about the linear nature of time doesn't matter, because there is just one truth and the best way not to find it, is to say:

I don't need arguments, because I have an opinion.
"Only one of us can be true" is ridiculous. If I made the statement "everyone only likes red cars" that would hold as much truth as your statement. Again, you don't speak for everyone. Everyone has different needs and use-cases. This isn't complicated.
It's not complicated, there are big books written on the topic of color psychology and the emotional effect of red cars. Face it, everything in the world is science, nothing is opinion. Blood is red, plants are green, as humans we are bound to react on those colors in a certain way. That's why almost all lipsticks sold are some shade of red not green. Worldwide people prefer cars in non-colors: black, silver/gray and white.
 
No offense intended. However you cant assume everyone to just understand your idea by just posting a simple image.

I sight camera idea is clever, but has battery issue and algorithm issue. Cameras use HUGE amount of energy. Also, sometimes you might want to use the display trackpad as you're looking in the monitor as well (like the second video editing image you posted). Algorithm to automatically switch based on eye movement may be very difficult.

I'm assuming that you're talking about Nintendo DS and Wii U when u said "gaming console". Those devices' main inputs are NOT the secondary display. Their main input are the button (Joy stick, buttons etc). Thus they were able to "add" additional display as "more" way of input, but not the main way of input.

The image you supplied might not have really demonstrated the purpose well. I guess it may still work, as long as it leaves a SPACE for tracking finger (for mouse) OR adding a button to SWAP between trackpad and secondary display simultaneously.

The second image, video editing timeline thing, kind of misled me to think in a myopic way, but if the manufacturer finds out a way to effectively use the secondary display as well as a trackpad, it may actually work.

My conclusion is that it may work, but not by the way ur images depicts. We just need better battery tech and then it may be suitable for laptop.
I guess my point was to keep an open mind. Lots is still possible with MacBook. :)
 
No, I'm speaking about the human brain and its capabilities to memorize.
Just because your brain seem to be inferior in the memory department does not mean that everyones brain are.

I am surprised anyone have problem remembering what F keys are used for, never had a problem, takes 1 second to learn and then never forgetting what they are for, and in Premiere Pro all my F keys remapped to various function, learned every function while remapping.

Dont know why you think everyone have such a bad memory
 
So we have: keyboard, touchpad, voice and now the magic bar. FOUR different input methods = bad idea. The next macbook will have pedals!
 
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If this image was actually found in 10.12.1, post the path to the file...
Check my post... #209
It IS there...
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Wait... You're HOSTING multiple SQL databases on a MacBook Pro?? It's MacBook Pro not MacBook Server.

Oh I actually do the same in my line of work!
Why, you may ask?
Simple...

We go out to prospective customers... to demonstrate the software suites that we try to sell them.
And these customers... are often out in the remote middle of nowhere... and with no internet or a 1mbit connection... dealing with large databases and lots of media files ain't fun. Hence... the MacBook Pro... HAS to act as a server. There is simply NO other way.
 
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No, I'm speaking about the human brain and its capabilities to memorize. You're trivializing the debate by making it to be about mere opinions, about which I never cared at all. Keep your opinions to yourself, I don't want to hear about them. Give me the facts of life or don't talk to me at all. We (humans) like stuff, because it works well with our biology. Our bodies differ a little bit between individuals, but not enough to not reduce every computer category down to two or three different sizes that fit all (of mankind).
And there you've lost the debate.
Nobody needs Function keys, they are simply a means to an end. If the same result can be reached on a simpler way, they are redundant. Sometimes Apple fails to make things simpler and then we get to make jokes like this.
Albert Einstein wasn't everyone and yet he spoke for all of space and time. GPS satellites wouldn't work if that one man wouldn't have spoken the truth. Your flatearthers opinion about the linear nature of time doesn't matter, because there is just one truth(...)
It's not complicated, there are big books written on the topic of color psychology and the emotional effect of red cars. Face it, everything in the world is science, nothing is opinion. Blood is red, plants are green, as humans we are bound to react on those colors in a certain way. That's why almost all lipsticks sold are some shade of red not green. Worldwide people prefer cars in non-colors: black, silver/gray and white.

Well... you make some interesting points, I agree with some of them, and clearly you are passionate about your views.
But you are quite obviously not one for debate, rather you prefer the dictator's approach of laying down your observations and conclusions as absolute fact, or 'truth' as you'd like to call it. Since you seem obsessed with 'truth' I am sure you have studied the word long enough - and hopefully beyond cinema's pop-philosophy - to know that the nature of truth has been hotly debated for centuries and there is no general agreement on its definition.
Your claim that "everything in the world is science, nothing is opinion" is similarly on very shaky foundation, especially since your own colour-theory arguments must crumble when you'll agree that not all plans are green, that not all blood is red, not to forget that about 4% of humans are colour blind. Thus there is always a subjective approach to the reality that surrounds us, despite your lack of interest in other people's opinions.
The nature of science is of constantly testing theories to arrive at models. Your apparent belief that you represent the one truth is a little brittle and would hardly appeal to the great Mr Einstein whom you cite. Btw: Einstein didn't speak "for all of space and time" - he made observations and formulated theories. Much more humble than your approach, I think you'll find.
Nevertheless: thanks for passionate views that are more stimulating than the majority of silly posts here today.
 
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If you've used the Macbook you'd know Apple has put amazing speakers in for their size (they best the Macbook Pro 13" to begin with), I'm not worried about audio performance out of the new MBP's, hell if they can do what they did in the iPad Pro's just imagine what they're doing with the extra space afforded by the MBP.
Hi NT1440, sorry for the confusion, I was just making a comment on the actual grill of the speakers, not the speakers themselves. I should have been more specific in my post. My photo shows a rounded grill as opposed to the leaked image of the squared grill. Just and aesthetic nit pik. Be good!
 
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You are in a different universe, dude. No matter what length you want to reply with, the fact remains ... people use things differently than you. That isn't an opinion. It's a fact. I'm not even sure what you're arguing.
 
Yes, but I have to admit it took a long time. I even put a sticker on my keyboard but now I've got them memorized. It's weird though, because I do remember shortcuts from the time I used Windows (29 years ago), like Alt-F4 to quit a program.
Every program can be quit, all programs quit with Alt-F4. That's consistent, frequently used and therefore easy to remember. But the idea of Function keys was to do different things in different applications. F4 is not meant as a symbol for the concept of Quitting, it's just the fourth out of up to twenty freely programmable keys, who could mean anything. The last key you want to hit inadvertently is the Anything key, which closes your active application with risk of potential data loss in unsaved documents. So they had to hide and protect F4 behind the Alt key with Alt-F4. At that point the whole concept of freely usable keys has already failed and been reduced to a shortcut. Alt-Q would have done the same job with more clarity.
But you are quite obviously not one for debate, rather you prefer the dictator's approach of laying down your observations and conclusions as absolute fact, or 'truth' as you'd like to call it.
There is only one truth, but I don't own it. You can always challenge me about the truth with your own observations and conclusions. That's what I'm here for, all the people who measure screen sizes and bezels with Pixelmator and make interesting predictions on future products and their capabilities. Every product design is a compromise, you lose something you gain something. I think the F-keys are something even those who use them heavily will be glad to lose, because the Magic Toolbar will try to accomplish something very similar, but this time with a touchscreen that can display anything. Of course the Xcode debugger will do something with this new toolbar and this time you won't have to memorize what F8 stands for?
 
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Yeh not sure how I'm going to use vim efficiently on this thing.

I think all us UNIX heads are feeling that one. Best go to a store and try it out. It might work well but I definitely have my reservations on that one. I've already bene retraining my muscle memory because the smart keyboard for my iPad doesn't have escape either (Ctrl + [ works) but I don't know, still doesn't seem right to me.
 
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