Nice setup. I'm sure it sounds excellent. Highly regarded speakers, subs, and avr with amongst the best room correction. Mine isn't as high end but holds it's own. Have a mostly Klipsch RP setup in a 5.2.4 config. Dual SVS PC12+ subs. Denon x4300h avr. For atmos using Klipsch's RP-140sa implemented as an upfiring pair in front but as rear height pair in the back. That's what my living room config allowed. Works very well as I have fairly ideal ceiling height and type for upfiring to work. In my reading over on AVS forums it seems most are pretty realistic about atmos and don't overhype it. It's not a whole new experience but clearly adds a new dimension to surround sound.
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Immersive audio..
- Thread starter thomasfxlt58
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Nice setup. I'm sure it sounds excellent. Highly regarded speakers, subs, and avr with amongst the best room correction. Mine isn't as high end but holds it's own. Have a mostly Klipsch RP setup in a 5.2.4 config. Dual SVS PC12+ subs. Denon x4300h avr. For atmos using Klipsch's RP-140sa implemented as an upfiring pair in front but as rear height pair in the back. That's what my living room config allowed. Works very well as I have fairly ideal ceiling height and type for upfiring to work. In my reading over on AVS forums it seems most are pretty realistic about atmos and don't overhype it. It's not a whole new experience but clearly adds a new dimension to surround sound.
But no DTS-HD and no Dolby True HD? Cmon that's just offensive in apple's part. And no mention of 24fps.
So on my 65" OLED and 5.1 monitor audio silver home theatre set up, Apple expects me to watch films at 60fps and with compressed sound. That's simply not going to happen.
I'm actually not a massive fan of my nvidia shield. It's upscaling is really poor so I need to switch resolution manually if I change between watching 4k and 1080p. But I won't trade that inconvenience for terrible audio support and non native framerates
Agreed. Dolby Vision theaters also include Dolby Atmos.
As far as I am aware of, there is no video streaming service that streams lossless audio, those are only on blu-ray HD & UHD discs, the bitrate is 18Mbs just for the audio, while UHD video bitrate for Blu-ray Discs is up to more than 100Mbs. Considering Netflix was streaming 4K at 15Mbs which likely includes the audio, as DD+ typically runs less than 2Mbs, DD+ is the best choice for streaming services which gives better quality than basic DD or DTS, at low enough bitrates for the US's lousy internet speeds. I think UHD is going to bitrate at about 18Mbs with HDR. It is highly compressed.
That being said, I have seen other steaming services that offer a DD+ version of Dolby Atmos, and that was with HD video.
Now, here's the thing, any blu-ray player can play discs with Dolby Atmos or DTS-X, as all those formats do is add metadata to 5.1/7.1 audio, which makes it backward compatible for most audio processors (they just ignore the metadata).
So, since Atmos is done by adding metadata, I think a software update could add this capability, but I'm no developer.
However, I wouldn't expect DTS being added, as most content made for streaming is going to have DD or DD+.
FYI: VOD/streaming HD or UHD video is highly compressed. HD Blu-ray Discs hold 25 GB single layer, 50GB dual layer, and many 1080p movies bitrate is 30+ Mbs, whereas the streaming version is 3-5Mbs, typical itunes 1080p movie is around 5GB total. UHD Blu-ray Discs hold 66GB dual layer, 100GB triple layer, bitrate can go over 100Mbs, ...compared with Netflix 4K steaming at 15Mbs, that comes in at about 14GB for a 2hr movie.
So, you have to take into consideration internet speed and file sizes, the main reason for compressed video, (the US is not ready for all video to be 4K/UHD, even compressed).
Now, after saying all this, I don't think any iTunes content yet uses DD+, only DD 5.1 (640kbs). So, if anyone is getting DD+ audio out of their ATV, please let me know what app/source. Thanks!
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Agreed. Throughout the conference, Apple presented like a bunch of out of touch dads that simply hadn't realised the world had left them behind. Was quite sad to watch.
It almost feels like they need to fail badly now before we can see anything remotely exciting coming from Apple.
All my Blu Rays have been ripped to my NAS with either Dolby True HD or DTS-HD. From what I can see, I cannot play them on the new Apple TV at 24fps, or with lossless sound.
That is correct.
I have been able to connect my Mac via HDMI to my AVR and I will get lossless audio. I don't have a 24fps TV at this point, so, can't confirm, but, I would think that was possible. ...Some people will get an older Mac Mini dedicated for their ripped disc collection.
I don't believe the Mac Mini can do 24fps either. The Nvidia Shield on the other hand has been able to do all this stuff and more for quite some time. I purchased one because of my frustrations with the last Apple TV and unfortunately, I'm now of the opinion that purchasing the new 4k Apple TV will be a step down from the Nvidia Shield.
Infuse allows you to play all (none atmos) HD audio from bluray rips etc. Maybe once they get the new AppleTV 4K they can figure out how to also get Atmos working. So, saying the Apple TV cannot play HD audio is plainly wrong. Apple's app itself may not allow you, but, it most certainly can be done.
As far as I am aware of, there is no video streaming service that streams lossless audio, those are only on blu-ray HD & UHD discs, the bitrate is 18Mbs just for the audio, while UHD video bitrate for Blu-ray Discs is up to more than 100Mbs. Considering Netflix was streaming 4K at 15Mbs which likely includes the audio, as DD+ typically runs less than 2Mbs, DD+ is the best choice for streaming services which gives better quality than basic DD or DTS, at low enough bitrates for the US's lousy internet speeds.
Now, after saying all this, I don't think any iTunes content yet uses DD+, only DD 5.1 (640kbs). So, if anyone is getting DD+ audio out of their ATV, please let me know what app/source. Thanks!
Agree. Not surprised about hd audio for streaming content. Also I would would not think Apple would necessarily publish if it can or can't bitstream hd audio as the use for this is primarily those of us that rip our blu rays. Atv 4 hardware can actually bitstream dts and DD untouched using infuse. Infuse can play hd audio but that has to be decoded by infuse first and sent as lcpm hence no Atmos metadata. So still keeping fingers crossed that this hardware can actually bitstream hd audio. That being said Plex (what I use) uses native atv player so may still need to use something like infuse.
Many iTunes title are in fact DD+. Only way to get it is streaming through ATV. Since atv will decode to LPCM only way to know is to see that your avr is inputting pcm/multichannel at 7.1 as plain DD only supports up to 5.1.
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To be fair, Dolby True HD was never intended for streaming services. For streaming, Dolby itself is promoting Dolby Digital Plus, which Apple TV 4 and the new Apple TV 4K both support. (up to 7.1 channels)
Not to say the ATV audio quality couldn't be improved on (primarily by Apple addressing complaints of lower fidelity compared to simple DD passthrough to the AVR), but those issues would require software or hardware fixes not visible in a product press release...
Not to say the ATV audio quality couldn't be improved on (primarily by Apple addressing complaints of lower fidelity compared to simple DD passthrough to the AVR), but those issues would require software or hardware fixes not visible in a product press release...
Someone may have pointed it out already but Atmos can ride along via DD+. HD audio is not required. Roku supports it. Vizio even has it working over ARC. They could certainly support DD+ via streaming over HDMI.
That is the hope although you would think it would be mentioned in specs that it supports Atmos. They would still need to change how ATV handles audio as Atmos metadata requires bitstreaming of DD+ which ATV4 currently does not do - it decodes and sends as LCPM which would loose Atmos metadata.
I wouldn't expect Apple to provide Atmos support until it was clear Atmos was going to take off in the home theater market...
I would prefer Apple spend their efforts improving sound quality in general.
I think it already is taking off. A large percentage of new release blu rays have atmos tracks now (at least action/scifi movies) and judging by AVS forum activity and reviews of Atmos products on Amazon, Crutchfield, etc it is fairly popular for those with home theater setups. It's been out several years now and seems to continue to increase in popularity. Now there are even soundbars getting into the atmos game.
Also I see in your sig you are the author of the sound check app. Thanks! I've used it many times to get a double check on my system after running audyssey and evaluating my center channel clarity.
More like 2-3Mbps (depends on the content though).
Most streaming providers use DD+ in low-bitrate mode (typically a few hundred kbps).
Actually many iTunes movies have 7.1 DD+ tracks now. You only get them when streaming them from the Internet via an ATV4 though. The downloaded version typically has a DD 5.1 track at 384kbps (probably for backward compatibility with the ATV3, which can't play DD+ via Homesharing).Now, after saying all this, I don't think any iTunes content yet uses DD+, only DD 5.1 (640kbs). So, if anyone is getting DD+ audio out of their ATV, please let me know what app/source. Thanks!
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Yes it would be great to have that but I met no one who could really tell the difference between Apples already streamed audio and blu ray HD audio, the only difference I can noticeably pick up is in the bass, HD audio can take my sub lower.
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Atmos certainly hasn't taken off, Atmos is designed for a person with a dedicated HT room, its not designed for most peoples living rooms, where almost everyone has their main TV and watching area. I only know of one person in my network who has Atmos and its in a HT room, most of the others seem to have sound bars to please the wife/GF, a good few have 5.1 set ups. Also, most who do have Atmos are more likely to buy the 4K disc with Atmos than to stream it off of iTunes, and Im sure Apple knows this. I don't doubt Apple will release Atmos in the future, I just don't think its a huge concern for them given its still new and most don't have it and those who do will stick to disc format as the "pure" source.
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I won’t comment on adoption rates but you certainly don’t need a HT environment to enjoy ATMOS. While it’s great to actually have ceiling speakers, the ATMOS modules are widely regarded for lower ceilings and/or rooms that can’t be wired easily. Dispersion angle of ceiling speakers can create hot spots in low ceiling installs so the ATMOS modules actually become an advantage.
Not true. You can run it as front or rear heights without mounting on the ceiling. You can also use modules to bounce audio off the ceiling to the listener and there are surrounds with this built in. There are also atmos sound bars. It's not just about ceiling speakers but rather the object vs channel based audio.
I have 2 atmos home theaters in my house. One in my living room and another in our loft.
Thanks for using Surround Speaker Check! I'm glad you found it helpful!
Anyway, regarding Atmos adoption, I was talking more from Apple's likely perspective, where they usually need to see a pretty grand user base (on the terms of millions of users) before investing much effort in new standards. I don't think Atmos is quite up to their numbers yet... Perhaps someday in a future tvOS update?
Thanks for using Surround Speaker Check! I'm glad you found it helpful!
Anyway, regarding Atmos adoption, I was talking more from Apple's likely perspective, where they usually need to see a pretty grand user base (on the terms of millions of users) before investing much effort in new standards. I don't think Atmos is quite up to their numbers yet... Perhaps someday in a future tvOS update?
Agree. Not popular in that kind of scale, but among those with HT setups.
It's true in that I prefer physical media to get the best quality sound and video, but I prefer to only buy films that I really want in my collection, so tend to rent films that I haven't seen before. It's a shame that I can't experience Atmos with those rentals.
For example, I haven't yet seen Trainspotting 2, which is meant to have a killer atmos track, but I'm not keen on spending £20+ on a UHD blu-ray to hear it when I don't know how I'll feel about the film. 4K HDR is only half the appeal for me, sound is as important as picture.
Agreed. Dolby Vision theaters also include Dolby Atmos.
As far as I am aware of, there is no video streaming service that streams lossless audio, those are only on blu-ray HD & UHD discs, the bitrate is 18Mbs just for the audio, while UHD video bitrate for Blu-ray Discs is up to more than 100Mbs. Considering Netflix was streaming 4K at 15Mbs which likely includes the audio, as DD+ typically runs less than 2Mbs, DD+ is the best choice for streaming services which gives better quality than basic DD or DTS, at low enough bitrates for the US's lousy internet speeds. I think UHD is going to bitrate at about 18Mbs with HDR. It is highly compressed.
That being said, I have seen other steaming services that offer a DD+ version of Dolby Atmos, and that was with HD video.
Now, here's the thing, any blu-ray player can play discs with Dolby Atmos or DTS-X, as all those formats do is add metadata to 5.1/7.1 audio, which makes it backward compatible for most audio processors (they just ignore the metadata).
So, since Atmos is done by adding metadata, I think a software update could add this capability, but I'm no developer.
However, I wouldn't expect DTS being added, as most content made for streaming is going to have DD or DD+.
FYI: VOD/streaming HD or UHD video is highly compressed. HD Blu-ray Discs hold 25 GB single layer, 50GB dual layer, and many 1080p movies bitrate is 30+ Mbs, whereas the streaming version is 3-5Mbs, typical itunes 1080p movie is around 5GB total. UHD Blu-ray Discs hold 66GB dual layer, 100GB triple layer, bitrate can go over 100Mbs, ...compared with Netflix 4K steaming at 15Mbs, that comes in at about 14GB for a 2hr movie.
So, you have to take into consideration internet speed and file sizes, the main reason for compressed video, (the US is not ready for all video to be 4K/UHD, even compressed).
Now, after saying all this, I don't think any iTunes content yet uses DD+, only DD 5.1 (640kbs). So, if anyone is getting DD+ audio out of their ATV, please let me know what app/source. Thanks!
Seeing some recent films (Rogue One, live action Beauty and the Beast) with 7.1 DD+ soundtracks. They’re decided on the ATV itself which I turn puts out 7.1 multichannel PCM. My Denon receiver shows 7.1 Multi Ch In on the front display. No way of getting the DD+ bitstream itself out to decode on the receiver though.
Edit: My Fire TV does output DD+ soundtracks as a bitstream, which my receiver displays as Dolby Digital + rather than multi ch in. Would be nice if ATV did that at least.
That sounds like a statement from someone who doesn't have a full Atmos setup. I can hear a big difference in well-made Atmos soundtracks. The immersiveness of the atmosphere of sound is impressive on my system compared to even DTS-7.1 tracks. Music and environmental sound effects (like rain) sound significantly better. My audio system is a Pioneer Elite receiver with a 7.2.2 speaker setup.