iMovie '08 Transition Pains

[koobcamuk]

I absolutely LOVE iMovie '08. I have created more movies using it than I ever did in '06. I'm so glad Apple doesn't listen to forum posters when creating their products, or we'd be stuck in the 90's still.

More movies? How long have you had it?

 

[kddpop]

...So you're not the target user for iMovie.

Just look at the response to this new version. Many people love it. And the few who don't seem to be people who use FC or other high end video apps and want a cheap/free app that covers all their needs.

Maybe some of this comes down to iMovie being *too* good and cannibalizing sales of FCE and FCP?

the point is, he was the target user for imovie. now he isn't. and that's a bit of a shame as now instead of spending a little for ilife, he'll have to spend a lot more to get FCE.

i plan on using imovie 08 for certain things and keeping 06 around for more audio control. i love the new interface and ease of 08. just wish it had some of the old control from 06.

~kyle

 

[GFLPraxis]

iMovie 06 feature wise was about right for me, omitting timeline, effects, audio editing is one of the gayest things I have heard.
I'm also a Final Cut user, but sometimes I just love the simplicity of 06 and find myself using it surprisingly often.
08 is no use to me and (as someone else said earlier) I'm now unable to recommend the Mac for cheap n cheerful movie editing. As from what I'm reading, it sounds like Apple have created iMovie for those with learning disabilities.
Recommending 08 would be an insult to an able persons intelligence.

Have you even used it before you make such incredibly rude comments about people who actually might like 08?

The timeline is no longer needed; scrolling the mouse through the video works just as a timeline would, and since you can also set it to show the videos in anywhere from 1-second to 5 minute increments, it can function exactly as a timeline even in view.

Complaining that iMovie '08 lacks a timeline is like complaining that you can't surf the web on an iPhone without a mouse. You're USED to a mouse, but the skimming concept is an entirely new design paradigm that completely negates the need for a timeline.

As far as audio...I don't see much missing here. The only thing missing is audio rubberbanding; but since you can have tracks fade in and out when other tracks come in, I haven't had any need for it. Regardless, you're putting a double standard here.

You know, Final Cut Pro lacks serious audio editing! What an insult! Of course, it comes with Soundtrack that you can shoot the audio over to and back, right?

iMovie's the same; you can shoot it over to GarageBand for editing.

I really recommend you try iMovie 08 first before you insult everyone who likes it.

 

[peterjhill]

I love the new version of iMovie. It solved a big problem I had.. keeping track of what clips (should I call them assets) I have. A year ago I dumped all my dv tapes onto an external drive, but there was no easy way to see what I had.

With all my video in the new version of iMovie, I found some great clips. It makes me want to shoot more video. The old version of iMovie was too much work. The new version makes it fun.

I found some great video my wife took that I never saw before. My son, when he was one, eating his first cookie ever. The expressions he makes are hilarious. I was ROFL.

http://gallery.mac.com/peterjhill#100040
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhnO5bUJyXo

 

[kingtj]

There are a few issues here, IMHO....

For starters, iLife '06 never added support for the newer digital video formats needed to allow downloading directly from USB hard disk based camcorders, or clips made in "movie mode" on newer digital cameras.

Many people were anxiously waiting for iLife '08 so they could *finally* use their newer gear with it.

But now, they're forced to use a whole new program to do that, vs. at least having the option to stick with an iLife '06 app that added that hardware support.....

I'm one of these people, myself. I still use an old Sony TRV-730 Digtial-8 camcorder, only because none of my Mac video editing software will work directly/easily enough with the current hard-disk based camcorders on the market. Not sure I want to buy a new camcorder yet though, if iLife '08 is going to be my only available editing tool for it on my Mac.....

What about all the people who paid good money for the "Slick Transitions" packages for iMovie? All that money is down the drain if we move to iLife '08? That's not a good proposition either.

And to the guy who worked at a school and claims people just don't need any "advanced features" left out in '08 -- I think you're grossly mistaken there. Maybe your students don't delve into that, but MANY Mac users DO. I'm not a "Hollywood producer" - yet I do get called upon to edit vacation footage my family and relatives make, and to burn a DVD movie of the edited results for them. I do a couple of these a year, and iMovie has been my tool of choice.

I have to make heavy use of audio level editing to fade out audio that's poor, unintelligible, or inappropriate while working with their footage - and occasionally want to overlay audio from another source. I shouldn't need a $299 copy of FCE just to accomplish THAT!

iMovie 06 feature wise was about right for me, omitting timeline, effects, audio editing is one of the gayest things I have heard.
I'm also a Final Cut user, but sometimes I just love the simplicity of 06 and find myself using it surprisingly often.
08 is no use to me and (as someone else said earlier) I'm now unable to recommend the Mac for cheap n cheerful movie editing. As from what I'm reading, it sounds like Apple have created iMovie for those with learning disabilities.
Recommending 08 would be an insult to an able persons intelligence.

 

[KingofAwesome]

So I recruited, inducted whatever my college student to help me make the demo. Now Steve Jobs is right this would of taken longer without ilife 08, I could of done it but not in a little over an hour, which is what we did from start to finish.

....

I imported the clips using imovie08, I could of used final cut, but as soon as I connected the camcorder to the usb port Imovie 08 was already asking me if I wanted to import, a lot of programs have trouble reading these sony files especially on the pc.

Without detracting from the content of your comment, PLEASE stop typing "would of" and "could of." It's "would have" and "could have." "Would of" comes from people hearing "would've" and incorrectly interpreting that.

 

[peterjhill]

Without detracting from the content of your comment, PLEASE stop typing "would of" and "could of." It's "would have" and "could have." "Would of" comes from people hearing "would've" and incorrectly interpreting that.

It "Would Have" probably been better to send this comment via private message. Maybe I "Should Have" sent this as a private message to you. Online forums are not a great place for grammar police.

 

[milo]

the point is, he was the target user for imovie. now he isn't. and that's a bit of a shame as now instead of spending a little for ilife, he'll have to spend a lot more to get FCE.

I have no idea what ever gave you that idea.

He was happy with the earlier version. That doesn't make him the target user.

The target user for this sort of apps is the lowest common denominator, make it usable for people who know the bare minimum about computers and video.

They missed the target with 06, the fact that normal folks were unhappy and FCP users were happy is evidence of that. With 08 they seem to have hit the bullseye.

 

[DavidLeblond]

Back when I got married, I tried to edit my wedding video on iMovie '05... couldn't do it. Going through that many clips was way too cumbersome.

I tried again a few weeks ago when my daughter was born, to make a movie about her to send out. Again frustration, and this was only with 1 hour of clips.

With iMovie '08, I tried again. Did a 5 minute video from 1 hour of clips in 10 minutes.

I love iMovie '08.

 

[guzhogi]

...So you're not the target user for iMovie.

Just look at the response to this new version. Many people love it. And the few who don't seem to be people who use FC or other high end video apps and want a cheap/free app that covers all their needs.

Maybe some of this comes down to iMovie being *too* good and cannibalizing sales of FCE and FCP?

I agree. Maybe iMovie '06 was too good and started cannibalizing FCE & FCP. I think that was the case w/ the Power Mac Cube. And probably the reason why we don't have a midtower Mac.

I see 2 basic kinds of comments in this thread: those people who say that (1) iMovie '08 is great for the average consumer and anyone who needs something more advanced should go w/ FCE/FCP and NOT stay w/ iMovie '06. Or (2) iMovie '06 was great for intermediate people, but should keep iMovie '08 and FCE/FCP. I'm more of the second group. IMO, iMovie '08 is great for those basic movies where you slap some clips together while iMovie '06 is good for some more advanced editing, but don't need/want/can't afford FCE/FCP. And then Final Cut is for the high quality, full featured guys. This isn't a black & white issue where you either need really basic stuff or really advanced stuff. There are people in that gray zone where they need/want the features of iMovie '06, but don't want/need Final Cut.

The feature I really like about iMovie '08 is the whole library thing and being able to see what you have. I'd be interested in using it a bit. I'd have to save up my money first, but I look forward to using it.

 

[nateDEEZY]

Personally, I think the new version looks like it fits in the iLife mentality. It isn't a pro app, and I don't think it will ever pretend to be one. It definitely looks like its easier and more manageable for the average consumer. It's more about getting your content out there and sharing it with your family/friends more easily.

Working with video can be cumbersome and time consuming. Being able to put something together quick has a lot more value in the end than a bunch of footage sitting unviewed on your hard drive.

+2 I agree 100% with the above post. I've only messed with the previous iMovie a few times, but since I got iLife 08' I've noticed I've been putting out short videos here and there more often than ever... Just so I could share it with family and friends.

 

[mustang_dvs]

What I don't get is why the MBPs in the UK still come with iLife 06, but in other countries they come with 08.🙁

Because there is too much stock left in the Inventory to change them all, its a Free up date from apple.com/uk/ilife/uptodate you just pay P&P

If bought from Apple, any computer shipped to retail prior to last week will include iLife '08 as a pack-in, if not already installed. 3rd party retailers may not participate -- it may be their option, or a cost issue. The short of it is, any machine bought from Apple after August 8 should include iLife '08.

I tend to use iMovie to do dvd slideshows for wedding photographers, and a big thing was the ability to fade music out, or one track into another.

This is a huge feature to drop - surely a soundtrack is an important part of any movie, even a basic one, so to drop the ability to fade the audio in and out to fit your video is crazy. It's not a nice feature to have - surely it's an essential feature?

iMovie '08 still does this -- except for cross-fading within a track -- and it's even easier than before (it takes 2 clicks to fade background audio in/out for a clip).

What about all the people who paid good money for the "Slick Transitions" packages for iMovie? All that money is down the drain if we move to iLife '08? That's not a good proposition either.

You'd be just as SOL if your 3rd party package(s) didn't work with an incremental-style iMovie '08 -- quit griping about hypotheticals that'll never happen. Most of my PowerPC-coded Photoshop CS2 plug-ins don't work in CS3 via Rosetta, but I'm not bitching to Adobe about it (and we're talking thousands of dollars invested).

And to the guy who worked at a school and claims people just don't need any "advanced features" left out in '08 -- I think you're grossly mistaken there. Maybe your students don't delve into that, but MANY Mac users DO. I'm not a "Hollywood producer" - yet I do get called upon to edit vacation footage my family and relatives make, and to burn a DVD movie of the edited results for them. I do a couple of these a year, and iMovie has been my tool of choice.

And I don't see anything in iMovie '08 that'll prevent you from doing more family movies -- if anything, it'll be easier.

I have to make heavy use of audio level editing to fade out audio that's poor, unintelligible, or inappropriate while working with their footage - and occasionally want to overlay audio from another source. I shouldn't need a $299 copy of FCE just to accomplish THAT!

You want professional level audio tools from a $79 consumer bundle? As it is, Garage Band can probably do most of the audio editing you want... and iMovie '08 will allow you to overlay audio to replace or supplement in-track audio.

 

[mustang_dvs]

They missed the target with 06, the fact that normal folks were unhappy and FCP users were happy is evidence of that. With 08 they seem to have hit the bullseye.

Exactly! I couldn't have said it better, myself (as a FCP user who found iMovie '06 frustratingly difficult for a 'consumer' app).

 

[Gasu E.]

I don't use the product and don't know what it does, and I haven't read anything about the product. But I'm mad as hell! Apple did something I don't like, I'm sure of it! Just not sure what. But it's the principle that counts!😡

 

[gregdig]

havent gotten around to trying it yet, im sure its fine

This sounds very scientific.

 

[gifford]

I have no idea what ever gave you that idea.

He was happy with the earlier version. That doesn't make him the target user.

The target user for this sort of apps is the lowest common denominator, make it usable for people who know the bare minimum about computers and video.

I may not have been the 'target' user, but the people I (would have)recommend it to are. They are just average computer users who every now and then want to post something funny to Youtube. And that almost always means some sort of audio editing. Some of them are almost completly computer illiterate, but dragging an audio clip onto a timeline is not exactly rocket science.

 

[numlock]

...So you're not the target user for iMovie.

Just look at the response to this new version. Many people love it. And the few who don't seem to be people who use FC or other high end video apps and want a cheap/free app that covers all their needs.

Maybe some of this comes down to iMovie being *too* good and cannibalizing sales of FCE and FCP?

what has that got to do with the fact that he/she thought imovie06 was perfect for him and many others?

I could understand your point if apple hadnt been releasing imovie and updating it throughout the years with the "missing features" and people were complaining about features lacking in a brand new app. But that certainly isnt the case.

then theres the total ignorance of the 3rd party plugin market.

Like others have said what would have been the problem of having this new instant movie maker app and an updated imovie app coexist?

 

[fadetowhite]

Things are getting a tad bit heated here over lil' ol' iMovie. Hahaha.

The new version looks fantastic. I think it will be used by a lot of people and we'll be seeing even more uploads to YouTube, etc. It really simplifies the process, and looks fairly slick as well.

Someone posted about the app being made to hit the majority of consumers. With MacBooks flying off the shelves into the hands of university students, and the iMac gaining some ground, the majority of iMovie users are going to be looking for an app like '08. Major generalization: previously, folks who bought Macs mostly bought them because they wanted to do media, etc. So the majority of Mac users wouldn't mind using a slightly more complicated app like '06. I see a big shift in what folks will want out of iMovie - something that is as simple as iPhoto and iTunes, and works well with the web.

That said, I personally am disappointed about the replacement of iMovie with this new version. I am really glad they are offering '06 for download.

The reason I am disappointed is that I teach Film and Video 12 at a high school. I have 14 G4 eMacs in my classroom, each with 256mb RAM and 40gb HDDs. These eMacs won't actually run Final Cut Express - the app fails to load, asking for more RAM. iMovie '06 runs great on the machines. I imagine (though I haven't tried yet) that '08 won't run super smoothly on these older machines.

My students import their footage, edit it, spit out DV versions, burn a DVD, and then they delete their projects and footage. We definitely don't need to organize footage like photos or music is organized.

But that's not really the issue. The issue is the removal of some key features. The way that '06 handles audio editing and its time line is vastly superior for our needs than the '08 way. With nearly every project, it is necessary to edit the audio quite a bit, bringing sections of clips up, ramping down music, etc. We also create DVDs (putting student things on the web is a no-no), and use the chapter markers often, especially for collaborative projects.

I could go on, but the bottom line is that '08 is a completely different program, and would be not suited to my needs at all. It's a quick and dirty way of making a simple video, not the best for trying to teach the ins and outs of video/audio editing and so forth.

I am sure '08 will grow in the future, and this won't be an issue at all. But for now, I am happy that I can download '06 and install it on the machines in my classroom.

PS: Is iMovie '06 really that difficult to use? My students are basically pros with it inside of a few days. It can be a bit cumbersome, but I gotta say - I don't see how the general idea has changed between versions. The selection of clips in '08 is much easier/better, but the dragging and dropping of clips and effects and audio is basically the same.

 

[EagerDragon]

I would love it but I have a PowerBook and it does not run on G4.

 

[kddpop]

I have no idea what ever gave you that idea.

He was happy with the earlier version. That doesn't make him the target user.

The target user for this sort of apps is the lowest common denominator, make it usable for people who know the bare minimum about computers and video.

They missed the target with 06, the fact that normal folks were unhappy and FCP users were happy is evidence of that. With 08 they seem to have hit the bullseye.

i got that idea because the features that apple included in imovie 06 appealed to him. apple targets users by including certain features.

now those features are gone. he was a target user for imovie 06. he is not a target user for imovie 08. that's my point. apple is re targeting users and leaving some of us out. i think they've mised the bullseye since there are some users who are now in between imovie and FCE. imovie 08 is still a great product and will work for a large number of people. but there are people left out/in the middle of their products...hence no bullseye from my perspective.

that being said, i love imovie 08 and will use it. but i will continue to use imovie 06 for certain projects that require the features that are not in imovie 08. i would upgrade to FCE but it is, for me, cost prohibitive to do so.

~kyle

 

[jacg]

I love how quickly I can make movies for uploading. I hope they bring some of the workflow visuals to FCP and FCE.

I will still use FCP for serious projects, especially those going onto DVD.

The question is, what will I use to teach children about movie making? You can't really do cutaways with iMovie 08 and kids love all of 06's effects.

 

[cliffjumper68]

I personally like iMovie '08, and I'm a serious FCP user. I think people need to recognize iMovie for what it is now - a tool to make quick movies that can later be uploaded to YouTube or something along those lines.

P-Worm

Totally agree, the new approach is much more streamlined for the youtube/ share video world. Hopefully they will incorporate templates and frames.

 

[MrSmith]

Back when I got married, I tried to edit my wedding video on iMovie '05... couldn't do it. Going through that many clips was way too cumbersome.

I tried again a few weeks ago when my daughter was born, to make a movie about her to send out. Again frustration, and this was only with 1 hour of clips.

With iMovie '08, I tried again. Did a 5 minute video from 1 hour of clips in 10 minutes.

I love iMovie '08.

It's not right to voice an opinion without having used it, but perhaps the people complaining are those who don't want to condense an hour's video into 5 minutes as a 10 minute rush job. I only make videos for my family but I still like to be creative and make each movie a little different. There's no way I could or want to 'slap' a movie together in half an hour. There's nothing wrong with doing that if that's what you want to do, but a lot of people don't.

I imagine a lot of people see this going the way of lowest common denominator. That's fine for some (someone above amusingly said, Apple have created iMovie for those with learning disabilities; I hope it isn't that bad 😀), but in doing so, if they have taken away the tools from loyal legions of previous users then I reckon said users have a reason to be annoyed. Someone else finding it a great new piece of software compared to a previous version they found difficult to use does not detract from their argument.

As an aside, what's this 'no chapter markers'? How the hell are you meant to mark chapters before sending to iDVD?

 

[milo]

I may not have been the 'target' user, but the people I (would have)recommend it to are. They are just average computer users who every now and then want to post something funny to Youtube. And that almost always means some sort of audio editing. Some of them are almost completly computer illiterate, but dragging an audio clip onto a timeline is not exactly rocket science.

I'm not sure what you imagine for throwing together a video clip for youtube that 08 can't do. You can add a music track, right? You can add a voiceover track, right?

What exactly isn't possible that is needed for putting together a youtube clip?

what has that got to do with the fact that he/she thought imovie06 was perfect for him and many others?

I'm not sure what you're asking. My point is that yes, there are people that loved 06. But they seem to be people who are more inclined to use FC. And now that 08 is out, the newbie users (the people apps like this are intended for) seem to be embracing it much more than the earlier version.

Like others have said what would have been the problem of having this new instant movie maker app and an updated imovie app coexist?

You mean other than supporting yet another app, especially one that has less appeal than the new version? Apple has three video editing apps. You honestly think that's not enough and they should offer four (not to mention that the fourth is still available, just not in development)?

I could go on, but the bottom line is that '08 is a completely different program, and would be not suited to my needs at all. It's a quick and dirty way of making a simple video, not the best for trying to teach the ins and outs of video/audio editing and so forth.

And again, iMovie isn't really intended for you. You honestly expect a $16 program to be "the best for trying to teach the ins and outs of video/audio editing"?

 

[kingtj]

Mustang_dvs: I think you miss my point?

1. The lack of support for Slick transition packs in iMovie '08 is radically different than the issue one might have with them not functioning any longer in an incremental upgrade. Why? Because (according even to GeeThree), Apple *removed* the ability to support 3rd. party plug-ins in iMovie '08! In the past, GeeThree has always given out free update patches to fix issues making their add-ons work with incremental iMovie releases (EG. v3 to v4). Now, Apple essentially locked them out of the marketplace!

2. How is it a need for "professional level audio tools" to simply want a way to easily mute the volume here and there within a movie clip, and optionally, to insert some sound f/x or other clips in their place? I used to play in a band and do a little bit of recording, so I have a decent grasp of what "pro audio tools" are. I'm not asking for iMovie to allow "normalization" of the sound, equalization, compression, or any other "pro" type audio mastering tool! I'm talking about the lack of a way to visualize the audio as a rubber-band you can click and drag up and down. Yes, I *do* expect something along those lines for $79..... Otherwise, we're left with what is essentially another clone of "Windows Movie Maker" that comes with Windows. I expect much more from Apple.

You'd be just as SOL if your 3rd party package(s) didn't work with an incremental-style iMovie '08 -- quit griping about hypotheticals that'll never happen. Most of my PowerPC-coded Photoshop CS2 plug-ins don't work in CS3 via Rosetta, but I'm not bitching to Adobe about it (and we're talking thousands of dollars invested).

And I don't see anything in iMovie '08 that'll prevent you from doing more family movies -- if anything, it'll be easier.

You want professional level audio tools from a $79 consumer bundle? As it is, Garage Band can probably do most of the audio editing you want... and iMovie '08 will allow you to overlay audio to replace or supplement in-track audio.