iMovie '08 Transition Pains

[milo]

now those features are gone. he was a target user for imovie 06. he is not a target user for imovie 08. that's my point. apple is re targeting users and leaving some of us out. i think they've mised the bullseye since there are some users who are now in between imovie and FCE.

I don't agree that he was the target user for 06. But even if he was, apple made the decision to aim the program at a much bigger part of the market, and the one that is going to be using an app that comes free with the machine and not needing to buy something more advanced. Since iMovie was too complicated before, people wanting the quickest and simplest weren't covered by any app. As part of that move, a smaller group isn't covered by the app, but they still have the options of FCP, FCE and 06. It's a bit silly to complain about falling "in between" apple's THREE video apps - the issue isn't falling in-between, it's wanting FCE as part of a $79 package.

You can't make everyone happy with one app. PERIOD.

I can see why people are unhappy about not being catered to personally, but making an app for the widest possible audience makes the most sense.

2. How is it a need for "professional level audio tools" to simply want a way to easily mute the volume here and there within a movie clip, and optionally, to insert some sound f/x or other clips in their place?

Have you even used the app? You can certainly add SFX.

 

[numlock]

I'm not sure what you're asking. My point is that yes, there are people that loved 06. But they seem to be people who are more inclined to use FC. And now that 08 is out, the newbie users (the people apps like this are intended for) seem to be embracing it much more than the earlier version.

Sure they are more inclined to FCE/P than the users/lovers of the new imovie but dosent mean they are users of FCE/P or can be or should be.

Its great that some like this new app. With the way things are going and the amount of people expressing themselves in short videoclips something an app like this is a welcome addition. That dosent mean people should be forced to purchase something for almost 300 dollars if they want the unbelievably advanced feature of a timeline view.

You mean other than supporting yet another app, especially one that has less appeal than the new version? Apple has three video editing apps. You honestly think that's not enough and they should offer four (not to mention that the fourth is still available, just not in development)?

how do you come to the conclusion that the old imovie has less appeal than the new one?

And whats with all these "imovie was too difficult" Until this recent update of the ilife package i had never heard anyone even say imovie was difficult

3 video apps on the face of it sounds enough but this imovie could have just easily been a feature of an improved and updated imovie.

What can we then expect in the future? Cutting out or severely limiting textedit because of pages and now numbers? quicktime since itunes is supposed to handle your video library? preview since leopard has coverflow and quicklook?

 

[EagerDragon]

At least Apple is giving everyone a choice since iMovie HD 6 is a free download. You can use one or the other, or both, so nobody is being left out.

I have a PB and I already paid for iMovie 06 when I purchased iLife 06, If I buy iLife 08, do we get a discount since we can not use the new iMovie?

 

[larriveejp]

There are certainly some compelling reasons to hide complexity from the users who feel iMovie '06 was hard, but I have yet to see any good reasons to remove it altogether.

If I thought iMovie '08 was horrible I wouldn't care at all, but I love the scrubbing and the library features. However, as much as I like those features I am frustrated by how great it could really be if they just added a little bit more (iMovie '06 audio editing + timeline).

If there were "simple" and "advanced" modes I don't see how it would impact the people who just want to make YouTube videos at all. Not having those "advanced" features (to have to call them advanced features is really just silly) definitely impacts those of us who would like to be able to continue doing what we have been doing with "iMovie" for years.

As for the people saying FCE is a great iMovie alternative, not so fast. FCE is closer to FCP on a diet than it is iMovie '06 on steroids. I don't need half of what Final Cut Express has to create home movies (and yes I own it), but I had grown accustomed to using iMovie's features for just such a task.

Here's hoping they add the features in and hide them from those who don't need them so everybody wins.

 

[johngordon]

I absolutely LOVE iMovie '08. I have created more movies using it than I ever did in '06. I'm so glad Apple doesn't listen to forum posters when creating their products, or we'd be stuck in the 90's still.

I really don't get that at all - how can removing the ability to edit audio if you want to possibly be a good thing?

If that option was still there, it wouldn't have slowed you down at all, as you would simply just not use it.

But others might - and despite the argument that 08 is what is etc - when else in the history of software has removing useful functionality been a good move?

As I said before, 08 looks great, and I'm sure it is better for making something quickly - but surely it could have been exactly as it is, but also with an option of a timeline view, where you could edit the audio, add chapter markers etc.

I'm one of those people who actually does make DVDs - usually for wedding photographers, and I tend to add markers for each part of the day.

For what it's worth, if the next update of FCE was to iMovie what Aperture is to iPhoto, ie with the same great looking UI, and this sort of functionality, improved over iMovie 06, then I'd be there like a shot.

 

[EagerDragon]

I understand that it no longer has a timeline, no longer exports chapter markers, and no longer allows audio editing beyond affecting each clip's audio.

That's assembling, not editing.

Have thoise functions moved to iDVD?
If they have not, then I would think we went foward in some areas and backwards in another.

 

[shadowband]

PS: Is iMovie '06 really that difficult to use? My students are basically pros with it inside of a few days.

Apparently so After reading through this thread, I was surprised at how many people feel that iMovie'06 is complicated to use. I don't quite get how dragging and dropping clips into a timeline is all that difficult - go figure.

Again, I don't have anything against a "dumbed down" version of iMovie, I only take exception to calling the new app iMovie. This would be like replacing ms word with ms works. Changing the target users midstream is not a good idea.

 

[GFLPraxis]

I may not have been the 'target' user, but the people I (would have)recommend it to are. They are just average computer users who every now and then want to post something funny to Youtube. And that almost always means some sort of audio editing. Some of them are almost completly computer illiterate, but dragging an audio clip onto a timeline is not exactly rocket science.

Again, you're talking with absolutely no understanding of what you're talking about. In iMovie '08, you drag your audio clip over a video clip and stretch it over the time span you want.

What's different about it?

Maybe try using the app before you bash it.

Read my post at the top where I replied to you earlier.

 

[sanford]

I have to say I can't see a problem. I'm in the "prior iMovie versions are too complex" for the kinds of quick compilation and burn or store I want to do with nothing more than home videos of the our kids. I like to think I'm not an idiot, but the often mincing, meticulous, days-consuming editing of film and video to produce a nice looking result for professional or amateur purposes is not my thing. I respect those who have the talent and training for that work, even as advanced hobbyists -- hell, I love movies -- but I frequently found myself frustrated with the depth of control available in previous versions. '08 suits me just fine.

But I don't see what the problem is for anyone at this point. Apple has provided as a free download the previous version of iMovie HD ('06) -- correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume they can exist side-by-side on the same Mac -- making both the advanced tools of the previous versions and the enhanced simplicity of the new software available to iLife '08 users.

 

[milo]

how do you come to the conclusion that the old imovie has less appeal than the new one?

Public reaction. I've seen tons of people who are raving about the new version, and a few complaining. And most of those complaints have been saying that they want FCE features at an iMovie price.

But others might - and despite the argument that 08 is what is etc - when else in the history of software has removing useful functionality been a good move?

When it helps ease of use on an app intended for beginners. And when the "useful" functionality isn't actually considered useful by many users and just gets in the way.

 

[johngordon]

The timeline is no longer needed; scrolling the mouse through the video works just as a timeline would, and since you can also set it to show the videos in anywhere from 1-second to 5 minute increments, it can function exactly as a timeline even in view.

Complaining that iMovie '08 lacks a timeline is like complaining that you can't surf the web on an iPhone without a mouse. You're USED to a mouse, but the skimming concept is an entirely new design paradigm that completely negates the need for a timeline.

As far as audio...I don't see much missing here. The only thing missing is audio rubberbanding; but since you can have tracks fade in and out when other tracks come in, I haven't had any need for it. Regardless, you're putting a double standard here.

Good points to be fair. I only had a chance to have a quick play so far.

With the audio, if you have a track, and would normally have it fade out half way through, and another track fade in - can you do that in 08 at all?

 

[sanford]

Again, you're talking with absolutely no understanding of what you're talking about. In iMovie '08, you drag your audio clip over a video clip and stretch it over the time span you want.

What's different about it?

Maybe try using the app before you bash it.

Read my post at the top where I replied to you earlier.

I really have to agree with GFLPraxis. It's become easier to use without sacrificing too many features. It is after all not even the limited-feature version of their professional video editing program. I can understand why some people want more -- again, I think Apple has addressed this by making the old version available for download in case '08 is your first version or you've lost '06, or sold or given it away with the system software of a used Mac.

But the thing is, I don't want go through all that to, as someone put it, "slap together" some creatively endowed home videos in half an hour. I understand that some people do, and they'll gladly spend days on a sublime ten minute segment. Believe me, most of you wouldn't want to do what in my profession I feel I have to do with words; for me it's perfecting, for you it would be a grind. I like the no-grind version of iMovie.

 

[EagerDragon]

My biggest complain with iMovie 06 was the inability to create a library of clips that I can use in multiple movies. Everything was oriented to a project and if I wanted to import anything to the project I had to import from camera again or export clips to QT and then import them into the project. This was not optimal.

Have this been solved in the new version???
It looks to me (have not used new version yet) like it has a library of clips, but I am not sure if you can organize the clips in any way. Anyone that can take the time to describe how that works, would be appriciated.

 

[InLikeALion]

I don't even use iMovie and I can't believe the ridiculous apologetic attitude in this thread. I'm outraged on behalf of iMovie users, whoever they might be.

Let’s be clear about what happened here. Apple totally killed iMovie, wrote a different app and took the name iMovie from the recently killed app and pasted it on the new project.

Now, I think iMovie 8 looks like a great program. It has lots of cool features. But the question remains, why weren’t these features added to the old iMovie? Or even better, just made into a separate program? They could have iMovie for editing and this “new program” for organizing and uploading.

But that’s not what happened. Imagine if, when Garage Band was new, they had killed iTunes and simply given Garage Band the iTunes name instead. So you have a program named iTunes that makes music, but no longer organizes it and syncs to the iPod.

Would you have reacted to that news with these comments?

• I’m sure they’ll work the bugs out.
• You can still use the old iTunes, it’s a free download!
• New iTunes lets you make music. That’s new and cool!
• I'm sure it will be refined in future versions.

Those would be terrible things to say in that situation and the same thing applies here. I’m surprised more of you don’t seem to care about this.

I think this the stance most people should have. Even if you don't use it (i haven't really since I moved up FCS1, but still use it for some small stuff occasionally), you have to see what a slap in the face this is to people who are consumers but like making "MOVIES". I think the point about garageband is very poignant.

It was the power of this and other iApps that have made me so highly recomend Apple's computers to my creative friends. I remember how I had wished I had grown up on macs so I could have gotten my feet wet in film making in HS, instead of waiting well into college to have those types of tools at my disposal. But now? No audio editing, no effects, etc?

I think, as other have said, this should have been something parallel such as iVideo, or rolled out within a new iMovie update, with the old power still accessible through an advanced view. I feel its just like their insane decision to declare that everybody wants only glossy/glassy displays. I know many graphic design labs and even design businesses that us iMacs as main machines. We should have the options to have matte, if that is what our tastes are or our needs. Sheesh.

 

[sanford]

Good points to be fair. I only had a chance to have a quick play so far.

With the audio, if you have a track, and would normally have it fade out half way through, and another track fade in - can you do that in 08 at all?

I think you'd have to trim the track -- you can do it in QT Pro, and of course there are other audio editors; would GarageBand do it? -- to the length you wanted and likewise trim the next track, then setting the first to fade into the second. (I never could figure out in iMovie HD '06 how to get a track to end early without what seemed a lot of awkward effort, so I often edited source tracks down in QT Pro, anyway.)

 

[drimmen]

I installed iLife '08 on my wife's blackbook last night and played with the new iMovie. My video editing experience is practically nil, even for home use. I've only used iMovie '06 HD a handful of times, but enough to know that I'll never use it again now that I've got '08. I whipped up a quick home movie with a few clips, music, and title; it was a fun and intuitive experience. Most of my time was spent skimming all of my short clips that had been buried and forgotten in iPhoto, but are now readily available in their own gallery within the app. It's more anecdotal evidence, but I am digging the new iMovie.

 

[Wild-Bill]

I would love it but I have a PowerBook and it does not run on G4.

Yes it does. Google for the hack.

 

[echeck]

I may not have been the 'target' user, but the people I (would have)recommend it to are. They are just average computer users who every now and then want to post something funny to Youtube. And that almost always means some sort of audio editing. Some of them are almost completly computer illiterate, but dragging an audio clip onto a timeline is not exactly rocket science.

How about you use it before rushing to judgment, eh?

And why can't you recommend a Mac to friends anymore when iMovie '06 is still available?

 

[jonatron]

I don't know if this has been posted elsewhere but when I installed
iMovie '08 (from disc) it created a folder within the applications folder
that says iMovie HD. It has the older version in it and it still works as well.
Not that I've had any problems with iMovie '08 or anything, I just thought
for those that were having issues they could just continue to use the older
version untill some sort of fix was announced.

This is exactly what happens when install the ilife disc.

I dont understand why everyone is so upset. I now have TWO applications. One that i was used to and one thats looks even better (even though ive not had much chance to play with it). Thumbs up from me!!

 

[mklos]

I have a simple solution....

If you don't like it, don't buy it! Doesn't that make more sense than bickering back and forth. Nobody is making you get the new iLife suite (unless you get a new Mac). iLife '06 is easily obtained if you don't like the '08 features.

 

[Virgil-TB2]

i do not try and make myself out to be a hollywood producer, but there are features in 06 that i will miss. i may not be a pro, but i don't think audio syncing and timeline editing are pro features.

Agreed on the audio, but not necessarily on the timeline. I find our users rarely discover the timeline view in the old iMovie and just use the clip view. So (again without seeing it), it could be argued that dealing with the movie as a series of clip objects like that works fine for many folks and that the timeline is a "pro" thing although I am not totally convincing myself even as I write that.

... and perhaps you should try the new version before your critique. not trying to pick a fight. honestly. just a friendly suggestion. you will find, i think, that 08 is a great ap, but those missing features truly are missing.

It's possible that, (like many of us), I get a bit over-enthusiastic when making a point sometimes.
Thanks for the correction.

On the other hand, hyperbole is kind of the "staff of life" when it comes to technology discussions on the internet.

 

[johngordon]

Public reaction. I've seen tons of people who are raving about the new version, and a few complaining. And most of those complaints have been saying that they want FCE features at an iMovie price.

No - not FCE features at all - existing iMovie features, surely?

When it helps ease of use on an app intended for beginners. And when the "useful" functionality isn't actually considered useful by many users and just gets in the way.

But that's my point - it needn't get in the way at all.

The default area where you drag clips audio etc is the top left. But like Aperture, you can re-arrange it, so that it could be all along the bottom.

You can view the audio waveform - but if there was an option to simply view the waveform beneath the video thumbs, and have a bit of control over the audio - then how would that get in the way if you had the option of just not using it?

 

[sigamy]

the workflow for DVD creation in iMovie 08
is terrible. SD footage is converted to H.264 first and then rendered to MPEG2.

Cutting is quick and fun. I miss effects and themes.

 

[johngordon]

Again, you're talking with absolutely no understanding of what you're talking about. In iMovie '08, you drag your audio clip over a video clip and stretch it over the time span you want.

Ah - OK - so what you can do is drop your audio in, shorten it's length over the video, and it'll fade out at that point.

Which is essentially doing the same as fading the audio out at a point, and splitting it? That kinda makes sense.

Need to have a longer play next time I'm in the Apple store.

 

[numlock]

Public reaction. I've seen tons of people who are raving about the new version, and a few complaining. And most of those complaints have been saying that they want FCE features at an iMovie price.

obviously thats were we differ. i dont consider something an FCE feature and not an imove feature just because its been yanked from the latest imovie release.

I also dont think you should have to pay 300$ for an app with a timeline view atleast no more so than i should have to pay for iwork to get a ruler in a text application