iMovie '08 Was Originally Called 'First Cut', Ubillos on Final Cut Pro X

[ctakim]

For those who wan't FCP X to be improved you have to fight back!

If you bought the software and are unhappy, please, please, please, make sure you go to the App Store and review with only one star. Does it deserve only one star? Maybe not, but it will get apples attention. So give it a one star till apple get's it up to speed.

If your unhappy and have not bought go to the App store and click on reviews with one star and mark them helpful. Anyone with a 5 star mark them unhelpful! All other ratings leave them alone.

This only one of the ways to get Apples attention, you got to spread the word to all the other forums you post on for this to work.

Can you imagine Steve Jobs reaction if FCP got down to a one star rating on the App store? The ***** would hit the fan.

But what do we do if we are amateur consumers who are delighted with a powerful program with a very familiar interface? For all the reasons it fails to meet the needs of the professional crowd, it is a perfect fit for the upwardly mobile amateur! What do we score it then?

Believe me though, I feel for the professional crowd and the conundrum they are in. I do want to see it improved for their needs.

 

[trainwrecka]

iMovie took a major step backwards. It took years to recover.

Years to recover? Are you serious? iMovie is meant to be the easiest video editing software that produces the best results. It achieved that when they made the change. I'm sorry that in writing an app from the ground up a few features were left out. The price of progress I guess.

I welcomed iMovie's change and I certainly welcome FCP's change. It was needed (which everyone agreed until they saw what it cost in terms of what was cut out).

 

[linuxcooldude]

For those who wan't FCP X to be improved you have to fight back!

If you bought the software and are unhappy, please, please, please, make sure you go to the App Store and review with only one star. Does it deserve only one star? Maybe not, but it will get apples attention. So give it a one star till apple get's it up to speed.

If your unhappy and have not bought go to the App store and click on reviews with one star and mark them helpful. Anyone with a 5 star mark them unhelpful! All other ratings leave them alone.

This only one of the ways to get Apples attention, you got to spread the word to all the other forums you post on for this to work.

Can you imagine Steve Jobs reaction if FCP got down to a one star rating on the App store? The ***** would hit the fan.

Does it deserve only one star? Maybe not, but it will get apples attention.

So lie if you think it is worth more then one star?!?

Thats the problem with the rating system. Now I don't trust them and know if someone is trying to fudge the system, its pretty evident. And Apple knows it too.

Go to the app store now in FCP X section nearly all of them are either one star or 5 stars. Both the liker and the haters trying to fudge the system to favorite their opinions. Both don't help give an accurate rating or review of the product.

 

[Christopher7]

So what is the best video editing tool for now??

 

[NAG]

So what is the best video editing tool for now??

Vi

 

[AidenShaw]

" Alright, rant done. I'm not normally this harsh but this really bugs me. The people at Apple have put a tremendous amount of effort into making this program and building a robust foundation for the future and it seems hardly anyone can see past the next month. Just give the software developers a chance. "

That's the problem when you address a bunch of people who don't possess long-term vision. You get comments like you see on this blog.

I think that the main complaint is that people are depending on FCP7 to put bread on the table, and today this week Apple cancelled FCP and introduced an incompatible, lesser replacement.

Had Apple announced continued support for FCP7, and committed to a roadmap to bring FCPX support for professional features to the level of FCP over the next year or two with seamless import of FCP7 projects into FCPX- you'd hear from lots of happy campers.

But Apple didn't. FCP7 is gone and unavailable. FCPX looks to be a great program for editing baby videos - but is completely missing in some major features needed by high end editors.

At least when Apple killed the XServe - its only credible server system - Apple said that "you have until the end of January to place orders". For FCP7, they said "you have until the end of yesterday to place orders".

If I were running a video editing shop, I can guarantee you that my calendar would be filled with appointments with Adobe, Avid, HP and Dell.

It's fine to have a "long term vision", but you need to be able to help your customers generate a revenue stream in the mid-term.

 

[THX1139]

So what is the best video editing tool for now??

Depends on your needs and what equipment you have. If you are an amateur, then FCX or iMovie. If you're a one man shop editing DSLR mostly for the web, then FCX and/or FCS. If you are looking at buying a new machine, then consider this a good time to look at other platform. If you are a professional, or someone who has clients and deadlines, then FC7 until it gets left behind by hardware and 3rd party developers (it's actually already outdated, but still functions). At that point, a switch to AVID or Premiere seems the best course of action. By then, it would be worth taking another look at FCX to see if they fixed it or not. If not, then go with Adobe or AVID and don't look back. I'm going the Adobe route because I like how Premiere is integrated into After Effects. And it's all 64bit!

 

[osxhero]

Apple has definitely taken a huge stop OUT of the professional video editing market. I've been using FCP since Steve gave me a copy back in 2000, and I've not needed an upgrade since 6.x. I couldn't find any reason for 7.x, and now with the horrid reviews for iMovie X, I can't see myself updating until there is some significant obvious reason to do so.

Enjoy that face recognition you can't turn off!

 

[THX1139]

I think that the main complaint is that people are depending on FCP7 to put bread on the table, and today this week Apple cancelled FCP and introduced an incompatible, lesser replacement.

Why would any studio suddenly need to go out and buy FCP7? Don't studios who have FCS in their pipeline already own licenses? It would seem to me that Apple pulling FCS from sales would only affect new shops or shops that are looking to expand their seats. The only other reason this could affect them in the near term is if they are looking at investing in new equipment. But I would think that most studios can get by another 3 to 6 months with their current systems and play the waiting game. But if Apple doesn't address the immediate situation then I could see a lot of shops making the switch to Adobe or AVID within the next 6 months. If that happens, we might see the sales of Macpro's plummet and Apple will use that as an excuse to kill their proline and go exclusively with consumer products.

 

[sigamy]

I seriously doubt that if microsoft stopped support on Word, and left you with a successor that could not read "old" Word files that this would just be business as usual for you.

Especially if they would also be working on Windows 8, and there would be no certainty that the old Word would still run on it.

You are saying that you would just forget about your investments in Word and "just" go to a competitor to buy their product?

I do not believe you.

Re-read my post.

When these things happen we do an evaluation. We determine which software we can continue to run on an older, unsupported version until the time that we can spend the funds to do an upgrade/conversion project.

I can remember running Word Viewers in order to at least be able to read new Word docs that we would receive from outside.

It was very common in 2003-2007 as many vendors of enterprise software moved from full Client Windows apps to zero client Web. I'm living with this right now.

Of corse it has an impact, that is my point. it is one of the costs of doing business and upgrades/conversions are in our budget every year.

 

[pkson]

After reading a pretty long thread...

This is like editors sticking to their Sony Beta linear editing boards.
I'm not kidding. They still have those. It's a great way to differentiate themselves, the "pros," from the "consumers." I never understood what it is about using "pro" tools that entitles them to belittle others who use an easier interface.

For example.
SLRs. I've used them, and although it has the awesome "I shoot film" aspect, it's more like bragging. Doesn't help me much. The interface is hard to use as well. Loading a film can never beat popping in a CF/SD card. I stuck with DSLRs, but now I'm really interested in the mirrorless cameras.. (Sony, Panasonic, Olympus) I've hung out in forums where they say stuff like, "I shoot only film because I do this... but I can see why digital is great for the average photographer...." Which might seem naive and condescending sometimes.

Yes, I know Apple dropping support for FCP7 so suddenly sorta sucks, but that's the only way to push forward. Microsoft totally abandoned XP even though they were under fire for Vista. Microsoft dropped support for Active X as well. But people still use both. What do you think about that?

Should they embrace the Windows 7 because it's so much better? Should they forget about XP and Active X because it's just legacy code left behind in the past?

I think yes on both accounts.

Then why don't they?

I think it's because they're just so used to it. When there's an industry standard, people get used to it. Same reason my father doesn't want to switch to a Mac from his Windows 7 desktop. He's used to the Windows environment. I bought him an iPad 2 for his 60th birthday, and he LOVES it! (Mom loves it as well. They never leave home without it.) I'm pretty sure he'll want to use a Mac soon, and never look back.

People who are used to FCP7 are experiencing problems because they feel uncomfortable at the moment. I'm sure if given a chance (especially after Apple releases updates that address most of the imminent problems) they would find that FCPX is great, and they can't go back to the old clunky non-linear video editing paradigm of the 20th century.

Of course it will take time to update everything from the get-go, so some transition time will be required, but I'm sure it'll be great soon!

 

[wizard]

Apples problem isn't with the new software.

Rather it is with their customer base. Unfortunately a good number of FCP users are whinney Hollywood types that are full of self importance with an expectation that everyone and their brother must kiss their a$$. If Apple really wanted to stop the complaints they would simply hunt down the complainers and whack them upside the head with a 2x4. Because honestly all I'm seeing in this thread and many others is that the new software is too difficult to manage for the poor Hollywood types.

 

[Glideslope]

Rather it is with their customer base. Unfortunately a good number of FCP users are whinney Hollywood types that are full of self importance with an expectation that everyone and their brother must kiss their a$$. If Apple really wanted to stop the complaints they would simply hunt down the complainers and whack them upside the head with a 2x4. Because honestly all I'm seeing in this thread and many others is that the new software is too difficult to manage for the poor Hollywood types.

Kudos for speaking without Fork Tongue.

 

[Prallethrin]

This thread has turned into a giant circlejerk where anyone who disagrees that FCPX sucks is downvoted.

If you bought it and isn't happy with it, just use FCP7, rate FCPX one star and ask Apple for a refund.

If it doesn't improve, just migrate off the line of software, you have plenty of time, it's not as if FCP7 will stop working anytime soon.
Many here mentioned pro tools are designed to be compatible with one another (which is one of FCPX's major failing; that's what everyone is claiming anyway), so I don't really see any unsurmountable problems with just moving to another software.

People here act like Apple owns them a living or something.

PS:
Heck I bet that most people here don't even do pro video editing and are here because they smell blood in the water and hope to fan the flames.

Call me a cynic if you like, but after the giant woo-ha about the iPhone 4 antenna which no one complains about anymore despite Apple not having change a thing about the iPhone 4's design, I have a hard time believing "evaluations" of Apple products on the web anymore.

Fanboys and haters have polluted the "signal" into worthlessness.

 

[AidenShaw]

Why would any studio suddenly need to go out and buy FCP7?

What if you add a new person? You can't buy a new FCP7 license.

This thread has turned into a giant circlejerk where anyone who disagrees that FCPX sucks is downvoted.

And who cares if blind fans on the left or right vote up or down?

Most of the time, the posts with votes of "0" aren't the interesting ones - in fact, most of the time the ones with negative counts are the most interesting (except for a few extreme posters who can get -5 just by posting their username)..

 

[wizard]

Tunes will change when more progressive shops take all the work.

I think that the main complaint is that people are depending on FCP7 to put bread on the table, and today this week Apple cancelled FCP and introduced an incompatible, lesser replacement.

All this whining is just BS. The people who can't come to grips with the new software will change their tune when they start loosing work to shops running FCPX. You can be progressive and leverage your hardware or you can continue to edit with your head in the sand.

Had Apple announced continued support for FCP7, and committed to a roadmap to bring FCPX support for professional features to the level of FCP over the next year or two with seamless import of FCP7 projects into FCPX- you'd hear from lots of happy campers.

Why would they do that. The people that want to stay on FCP7 can do just that and keep their head safely in the sand or whatever hole it is stuck in. The people complaining about FCPX are no different than the people that revolted at the switch to Intel hardware. Those people where to caught up in the PowerPC world to see the forest for the trees.

But Apple didn't. FCP7 is gone and unavailable. FCPX looks to be a great program for editing baby videos - but is completely missing in some major features needed by high end editors.

Features they think they need.

At least when Apple killed the XServe - its only credible server system - Apple said that "you have until the end of January to place orders". For FCP7, they said "you have until the end of yesterday to place orders".

If I were running a video editing shop, I can guarantee you that my calendar would be filled with appointments with Adobe, Avid, HP and Dell.

It's fine to have a "long term vision", but you need to be able to help your customers generate a revenue stream in the mid-term.

There is nothing about FCPX that stops the revenue stream. It only stops if users are to belligerent to use FCPX. I've seen nothing solid that says FCPX will keep people from making money. In fact I see the opposite, FCPX will lead to higher productivity.

What we are seeing here with these self acclaimed video professionals is the inability to think different.

 

[pkson]

This thread has turned into a giant circlejerk where anyone who disagrees that FCPX sucks is downvoted.

hahaha, I just got downvoted as well! hahaha

 

[Prallethrin]

And who cares if blind fans on the left or right vote up or down?

Most of the time, the posts with votes of "0" aren't the interesting ones - in fact, most of the time the ones with negative counts are the most interesting (except for a few extreme posters who can get -5 just by posting their username)..

Good point.
Wear it as a badge of honor I suppose - that people have read your post. LOL.

Downvotes here don't "bury" posts anyway.

 

[captain kaos]

After reading a pretty long thread...

Yes, I know Apple dropping support for FCP7 so suddenly sorta sucks, but that's the only way to push forward. Microsoft totally abandoned XP even though they were under fire for Vista. Microsoft dropped support for Active X as well. But people still use both. What do you think about that?

There is pushing forward, and there is changing something that is a well know platform. Apart from a few visual changes Avid (is probably) still running the same code of its 1980 grandfather. It edits the same, a bin is a bin, you drop onto the timeline, you mark in and out you edit. The reason it is the top of the pro editing tree is due to people knowing how to edit on it. Its not about people being stuck in their ways and not wanting to change. It works for a reason, in an industry that doesn't have time for massive changes. Unity storage, the disappearance of offline editing, more effects being used earlier on in the edit process (that would've been an online online. These are all changes that have come about due to forward steps in technology, faster CPUs, etc but the main basic way of editing has stayed around.

I remember, only 5 years ago (a long time in tech!) i used to install an editing system called Lightworks. It was one of the first editing platforms and it was built around it looking like old film editing, stienbecks etc so the film editors would recognise the workflow. In the 1980 Avid went into post houses, literally took the lightworks systems, through them away and gave the post house free Avids. It flooded the market and here were are today. Lightworks tried a come back around the time i was installing them, but they never really made a dent. It was too late.

The point is, you change something that has a percentage in this market, people will leave and you will only be left with consumers. Perhaps apple doesn't care either way, its all money in the end, but its a pity.

 

[cutcopypaste]

The apple apologists in this thread are kinda funny.

So many arguments are invalidated by the fact that Apple is not selling the older, better version anymore... even if you want to keep using it. Or start using it. That keeps getting ignored by fanboy after fanboy, but it's pretty darn important.

Suddenly Apple has no software that can work adequately in a professional video production environment.

Also if the program's not ready to be used, maybe it should be up to Apple to not release it until it is, rather than on the shoulders of consumers to wait until version 4 to pick up a copy or whatever.

Really, if they'd just called it something different and kept Final Cut Studio available, there'd be no issue.

Anyway, I'm not a video editor in any sense. I was just curious about the new final cut and all the talk about it so decided to read through most of this thread.. and I'm quite sure I know where I stand now heh.

PS the reason the apologists are getting downvoted is because their logic is flawed and they come off as a bit out of touch.

 

[dethmaShine]

After all that's been said and done, and even though I have never used FCP, it looks like Apple ****ed up this release.

They should have been much more sentimental to their user's needs and it looked like they were very rude. And they were rude to probably the most loyal group of consumers out there for Apple. Sad.

Yes, Apple can do wrong. Yes, Apple can be a bitch. This is a perfect example.

 

[deannnnn]

I feel like the people sticking up for Apple regarding Final Cut Pro X are the people who don't actually edit video, and are looking at it from a business standpoint.

 

[THX1139]

All this whining is just BS. The people who can't come to grips with the new software will change their tune when they start loosing work to shops running FCPX. You can be progressive and leverage your hardware or you can continue to edit with your head in the sand.

So, in other words, you don't know anything about editing in a professional environment. I suggest you read up on the issues before posting your pro-Apple comments. Software doesn't get you clients... it's having a reputation and cost affective solution along with a great end product that keeps you in business. Most large studios who provide that level of service are not going to so with FCX in it's current status.

It seems there are a lot of people who have no experience and don't know what they are talking about trying to jump into the middle of this conversation. Kind of like children when they hear the adults having a serious discussion in the other room, suddenly they want to be part of it.

 

[PurrBall]

I feel like the people sticking up for Apple regarding Final Cut Pro X are the people who don't actually edit video, and are looking at it from a business standpoint.

I edit video, and couldn't care less about the missing features. Heck, I never used them in FCP7. Thus, FCPX works great for me.

 

[H. Flower]

Seriously, so what if FCP 7 is no longer going to be updated? What is the problem? You have to learn a new tool? Wouldn't you have to do that someday any way?

I run into this all the time in corporate IT. Microsoft with Windows, Office and SQL Server, Oracle is famous for this, IBM Cognos with reporting tools. We make a decision on which sw we can run with no support until the time comes when we can do an upgrade/conversion project. In addition we do SW evaluations to keep an eye on each tech segment and determine if the product we are currently using should be kept or replaced with a competitor.

Point is, we never assume that a software product is going to stay in its current form or even exist going forward.

Sounds to me like many small business owners haven't properly planned or budget for this type of change and now feel Apple owes them something. I just don't see it that way.

The crux of the matter is Apple promised a pro application, and we made business decisions (just like the ones you described) based off that information.

This is not a pro application. It's not a matter of being a new tool, new way to edit, etc. It literally cannot do what I need to it do as it lacks certain fundamental features (think Photoshop not being able to print). If it did, I would be happy to migrate over and learn their new paradigm, like I have countless other times in the past with other programs. However, it can't, and thus Apple is useless to Pros because currently, it does not offer a pro editing app.

In addition to misleading us, Apple is not providing any information regarding the future of this product, and as you know, one can't make good business decisions with a lack of information.

Simply continuing to use FCP7 will work short term, but not long term, as OS's will advance and no longer support it (maybe as soon as next month with the release of Lion). Plus, ancillary technology like footage will soon evolve beyond it and render it completely useless.

I agree this isn't necessarily an un-common thing, but the way Apple handed it is dickish because:

a) They promised a pro app, and we planned accordingly to that
b) They won't provide any info or roadmaps about what they intend to do, making decisions much, much more difficult than they need to be

ALL of the anger from pros stems from Apple's dishonesty and willful silence concerning the entire thing. If they had handled it better, I guarantee you wouldn't see nearly as much anger.