Impending EU Regulation to Force Apple to Allow Third-Party App Stores and Open Up iMessage

[vipergts2207]

Get a Linux phone then. No android. But I think I could survive on sms.

Ok? This doesn't really address the point that vanishingly few people are going to want an iPhone that doesn't have iMessage, FaceTime, Music, Podcasts, the App Store, or Apple Pay and also costs 20% more. If that were to be Apple's strategy in the EU, they'd be better off just doing the ever popular suggestion on this forum and simply leaving the EU.

 

[RadioHedgeFund]

Normies ruin stuff. But there are always special corners of the Web. Like, there are Discord communities now for all sorts of wacky topics like Crown Vic collectors. Sure there's not a greasy dude running a forum on the Slackware machine he uses as a chair, but now there's a greasy dude moderating a Discord guild and writing complex bots for it.

There's more to learn than ever due to the possibilities of computing expanding. Just because things are higher-layer, e.g. you're working with network streams over WebSockets instead of TCP, doesn't mean less is being done. If anything, there are fewer mundane details in the way than before and a wider variety of things a single person can reasonably do.

My high school fortunately had a computer science course. In my class of 2014, there were maybe 15 people in that course. The following year there were 120.

Losing Flash was a regression in some ways. Nothing really replaced it as an easy tool for games and animations. Was more speaking to the topic of over-centralization, and also, a lot of use cases were done way better without Flash.

I'm thinking about online banking and shopping, which are legitimately useful and require security. My iPhone's passcode is 222222 cause there's nothing important on it, but my laptop deserves a strong password.

I am just of the opinion that the 'wrong-futurists' have this idea of the internet as a 'place' we inhabit (ie the Metaverse) whereas its proper future is as a utility that powers other things like the aforementioned banking and shopping but IoT, apps and so on.

Dicking around on forums was fun but as we grew older the topics we talk about have grown with us. You only have to look at how Facebook transformed from a place to catch up on photos of the night before to a combination of child's photo album and the film Cocoon based entirely on its audience just getting older. The kids are dicking around on Tiktok and Snapchat and we should leave them to it.

But because our discussions became more serious we also discovered that it is impossible to have a proper discourse with someone on the other side of a screen. Social media, forums, Discord; it doesn't count. These things should be done in-person. We should abandon the idea of the internet as a social space because it clearly isn't working out.

 

[toomasjoamets]

@toomasjoamets
"It's comparable to a situation where government takes 2 beers away from you if you have more than 200 beers in your fridge."
FWIW, that's.thankfully, completely illegal in the USA. It's called "taking of private property w/o compensation".
Do you really like that?

Yes, I do. Because that tells to those big companies that there are laws, that govern user's interests, that they should not abuse their monopolist status, that there are environmental considerations, that there should be compatibility with other parties in the market etc.

EU DMA is not about iMessage and Apple. It's about Google, Amazon, Microsoft etc as well. And these companies are already making huge profits on YOUR expense. And without laws like EU DMA or single charger standard act etc, then these companies would act only on behalf their own benefit. This was very well observed before EU started forcing big tech companies.

So what is happening is that big tech company made 200 beers profit and now the law basically tells to forcibly invest 2 beers into user's interests and compatibility and anti-trust. These companies will still make 198 beers profit.

You have to understand that we are not talking about some poor guy who barely can afford beer at all. Who can maybe buy 2 beers a week. We are talking about the richest entities in the planet who will make profit of 200 beers every week and when not enforced would not invest nothing into common good without their own additional benefit.

 

[hanske68]

I would like messaging systems to be more interoperable (at least to some degree). It is ridiculous one cannot send a simple message from one system to the other

Regarding the app stores: in my opinion Apple should separate their App Store and also offer their own apps (only) via such app store, using the same channels as anyone else, no backdoors.

I do think Apple should put together some (human) team to check every app that can run on their operating system(s) and label all apps (security wise). Then let the user determine what he wants to install on his phone, from which app store. As far as I am concerned the default should be to prevent installing potential less secure apps without explicit warning and user consent.

 

[porte9]

How is side loading and 3rd party stores going to benefit consumers? The EU never provided any evidence that prices, quality, selection and customer satisfaction with software on the App Store were worse than other platforms that did allow side loading and 3rd party stores (Android, Windows, macOS).

It doesn't for 99% of customers. The argument for locking down the app store is the same argument for locking down the bootloader: security. A lot of FSF-types complain about the locked down nature of these things. However, it provides improved security over a completely unlocked system. Take Purism's Librem 5 for example. They put all of these hardware security measures into place but completely unlocked the software to provide users with maximum freedom. However, this freedom comes at the great cost of security. A Librem 5 can be compromised so many ways. Applications are installed as root (APT) so any malicious package can install a rootkit into the bootloader at installation time. Not to mention that APT or the shell can be aliased to a malicious program in the users .profile file (user modifiable) which would allow a rootkit to be installed when any administrator task is run. And all programs (assuming they don't containerize the programs like iOS does) are able to access all other programs data. UNIX/Linux has piss-poor security by itself. 9-bit permissions plus SUID and SGID which can allow root access on execution as well and the sticky bit. Compare to NT with Group Policy and ACL or even UNIX's predecessor, MULTICS which had ACLs and ringed permissions.

This is not as much as an issue on computers because we view computers differently than we do phones. We are more cautious when installing programs because we know the consequences that can come from desktop malware. We just assume every program downloaded from the App Store / Google Play is safe-ish and can't flash the bootloader or baseband with malware.

 

[cmcbhi]

Its more comparable to the government telling a brewery off that sells hundreds of millions of beers that you can only open using that companies proprietary bottle opener that is only available to buy directly from them. Also this brewery is one of only 2 on the market.

There are then fans of this brewery that say creating an open standard bottle opener is wrong and that the brewery being the only place you can buy their proprietary bottle opener from is a good thing. These same fans of monolithic corporate control are then against the government, another monolithic corporation for all intents and purposes attempting to make this happen.

The government taking 2 beers from your fridge of 200 is called taxation and has been part of society for thousands of years.

actually, its like the government saying that CrappyBeer brewery can bottle and sell their product and put YOUR GoodBeer label on it.

 

[toomasjoamets]

actually, its like the government saying that CrappyBeer brewery can bottle and sell their product and put YOUR GoodBeer label on it.

No. EU DMA allows Google Messages to build iMessage support inside their product, but it will remain Google Messages. Also there might be an alternative app store called Crap Store that has the same content as Apple's App Store. So it means that CrappyBeer brewery might have CrappyBeer or GoodBeer inside their CrappyBeer can. But they can't market CrappyBeer as GoodBeer, because GoodBeer will still be owned by GoodBeer brewery.

 

[RadioHedgeFund]

actually, its like the government saying that CrappyBeer brewery can bottle and sell their product and put YOUR GoodBeer label on it.

If we are going to use proper retail analogies it’s like Walmart and Whole Foods both stocking Heinz Beans as well as their own brand ones.

If you only had one grocery retailer in the entire country and they could do whatever they wanted to stock, inventory, prices and what they pay to their staff the government would be on them like a shot and no consumers would complain about it.

 

[I7guy]

If we are going to use proper retail analogies it’s like Walmart and Whole Foods both stocking Heinz Beans as well as their own brand ones.

If you only had one grocery retailer in the entire country and they could do whatever they wanted to stock, inventory, prices and what they pay to their staff the government would be on them like a shot and no consumers would complain about it.

Because one needs food to live. One doesn’t need an iOS App Store or iPhone to live. It may be convenient but that is where it ends.

 

[RadioHedgeFund]

Because one needs food to live. One doesn’t need an iOS App Store or iPhone to live. It may be convenient but that is where it ends.

No but regardless of what one purchases, one expects some level of choice on where that thing is obtained. There are very few marketplaces that have one storefront, one distribution channel and nearly a billion customers.

 

[I7guy]

No but regardless of what one purchases, one expects some level of choice on where that thing is obtained. There are very few marketplaces that have one storefront, one distribution channel and nearly a billion customers.

No, because capitalism is predicated on consumer choice. If a product isn’t made that doesn’t suit one’s requirements, typically one wouldn’t buy the product. When the government intervenes in design and development the end result will be trash all around.

And still, an iPhone isn’t necessary to live as in air, food, and water, all of which should be protected and regulated.

 

[v3rlon]

How is iMessage a "critical resource"? If Apple shut it down tomorrow, would people die as a result?

How does Apple not opening it up exclude effective competition? There are plenty of alternate messaging apps on the App Store.

And we already have an universal instant messaging system. It's called SMS. If that doesn't work, there's another method of communication that's been around a while. It's called dialing the phone.

I remember when AT&T had kittens over iMessage. Remember when texts were 10 cents a pop? It was iMessage that effectively brought us unlimited texting (without adding $20 a month to your cel phone bill). So, in effect, it was Apple that brought the competition to SMS with iMessage, and I like it just fine.

If you do not want the walled garden, buy android. It's fairly simple.

 

[Sampire51]

I'm gonna need them to hurry and fix this so I don't constantly have errors every time I text my Android friends. Apple, stop making our experience crappy when texting outside of iMessage.

 

[scowl]

When is Apple going to be forced to allow 3rd party stores? Does this kick in the same time as the USC-C requirements?

 

[I7guy]

Probably not for a few years. And no, there is no dependency on the usb c requirements.

 

[hagar]

When is Apple going to be forced to allow 3rd party stores? Does this kick in the same time as the USC-C requirements?

One has nothing to do with the other. USB-C is about reducing waste. The App Store is about opening the market and allowing competition.

But nice of you to look at the EU to save the day

 

[user002]

When is Apple going to be forced to allow 3rd party stores? Does this kick in the same time as the USC-C requirements?

In little over a year - by spring 2024, all major tech companies will need to be in compliance. We wont know for sure if Apple will be willing to test the waters, not complying, and incurring penalties, or if they play it safe and enable third-party app stores right off the bat.

 

[user002]

Probably not for a few years. And no, there is no dependency on the usb c requirements.

More like a year. The legislation has already been signed, will take effect this year, and companies will have 6 months to be in compliance.

 

[compwiz1202]

The EU can **** off. If Apple had been founded as a French or German conglomerate, this wouldn't exist.

If I wanted the ability to lobotomise my smartphone, I'd buy an Android phone.

It seems there won't be a difference between Apple and Android anymore soon

 

[CarlJ]

One has nothing to do with the other. USB-C is about reducing waste. The App Store is about opening the market and allowing competition.

If that's your interpretation, then I'm waiting to hear about how you're campaigning for McDonalds to be forced to allow other fast food outlets to sell food in McDonalds restaurants.

 

[hagar]

If that's your interpretation, then I'm waiting to hear about how you're campaigning for McDonalds to be forced to allow other fast food outlets to sell food in McDonalds restaurants.

That’s not my position. It’s the position of EU parliament.

And your analogy doesn’t make any sense. Apple is already selling third party burgers in its store. The question is if Burger King and Wendy’s should be allowed to also open up a restaurant in the iPhone parking lot next to Apple Burger Inc.

 

[Wildkraut]

Tomorrow is the 1st November \o/

EU publishes Digital Markets Act | Eubelius

www.eubelius.com

One, two, DMA coming for you
Three, four, better unlock the AppStore
Five, six, grab your crucifix
Seven, eight, you're gonna open the gate
Nine, ten, better never gatekeep again

 

[wbeasley]

Tomorrow is the 1st November \o/

EU publishes Digital Markets Act | Eubelius

www.eubelius.com

One, two, DMA coming for you
Three, four, better unlock the AppStore
Five, six, grab your crucifix
Seven, eight, you're gonna open the gate
Nine, ten, better never gatekeep again

View attachment 2105567

Nightmare on App Street?