In your opinion is the slower SSD controversy in the base M2 Air overblown?

[Yebubbleman]

There’s a lot of patronising stuff in here — I don’t think that’s particularly kind of you. Be better.

You speak like someone who thinks they know more about these things than you actually do. I have no problem with people who know these things. I also have no problem with people that don't know these things. But people that speak like they know much more than they do (as is evident by the actual things they say)? Those people are taxing. Enough to make the kindest people get unreasonably angry. So, I say back to you: Be better.

As for the content of your message — there’s a lot of points you’re making that I don’t disagree with. Of course, the SSD can be a bottleneck. Yes, I have owned and used spinning drives — of course they are slower. But are you trying to imply that the M2 256GB harddrive is as slow as an HDD?

Nope. Never said that. I said that a slow disk will take all of the performance benefits you cited from Apple's marketing pages that the M2 has over the M1 and render them moot. This has been demoed by many reviewers and testers.

Or that the distinction in “system performance” between 256GB and 512GB M2 is as noticeable as between an SSD and an HDD? Because, if you are, then I don’t know what to say to you.

Again, didn't ever say that. You are definitely putting words in my mouth.

Finally, you’re claiming “there are plenty of people out there…” Well, there are also plenty of people out there pitting the M2 base against the M2 24GB 1TB, and coming to the conclusion it takes quite a bit of a battering to get to the point where the M2 base is noticeably slower. This one for example:

In the video below, they are responding to not only the kinds of reviews you just linked, but also the backlash from Apple fans that are in denial that Apple could possibly cheap out on the 256GB SSD.

This is not to discredit the clip you linked to, nor to suggest that someone who doesn't do much with their computer won't have a perfectly okay time on Apple's 256GB drives for those Macs. But, if it's my hard-earned money AND that much of it, I'm not buying a drive that is subpar compared to one that is in the predecessor product. These things cost too much to make those kinds of concessions even if I just so happen to be lucky and have a use case for the Mac that won't be as affected by the cheaper/weaker drive.

If you don’t want to talk about benchmarks for CPU or GPU, or about rendering performance, then what you’re really asking is how snappy does the machine feel. If you’re already convinced the M2 base is slower than the M1 base, I’m not surprised you find it easy to gather evidence for that fact.

You take the two SoCs in a vacuum, give them ample cooling and a decent SSD, there is no question in my mind about the M2 being more performant than the M1.

But yes, what we're talking about here isn't the SoC itself. It's the systems that they go into. I'd imagine that an M2 13" MacBook Pro with 16GB of RAM and a 512GB SSD will outperform an M1 13" MacBook Pro with 16GB of RAM and a 512GB SSD. My point to you is that a M2 MacBook Air with 8GB of RAM and a 256GB SSD is shown, again, by TONS of videos and legitimate reviewers, to be outperformed by the M1 MacBook Air with 8GB of RAM and a 256GB SSD. Those are facts. Whether or not those things matter to you, whether or not you think those things outweigh all of the other things that an M2 MacBook Air brings to the table, whether or not you think that it's a better overall package; all of these things are 100% irrelevant to the forum topic.

I didn’t feel that way after using both at all.

Good for you?

Finally, I do think you’re being disingenuous calling the only upside of the M2 the “better webcam” or the “stupid design from a year ago instead of the stupid design from four years ago”. From the way you speak about this machine, I wonder whether all the religion to attribute to me for defending this machine is actually as appropriately attributed to you.

You are doing that thing that every Apple fan does when a new design of Apple product is launched and suddenly it's almost as though the new design is unilaterally an upgrade over the predecessor design like it's the launch of an entirely new and game changing product. This is much more of a cult-like behavior than the act of nay-saying and saying that it's not that big of an improvement.

For the record, I'm not the hugest fan of the notch, nor the rounded screen corners, but I'm otherwise ambivalent. "Religious" and "Ambivalent" generally don't go together in the same sentence when speaking of something being part of one's religion; though I do appreciate your concern.

I just don't see the M2 Air as all that much of a step up from its predecessor. Again, a better webcam and MagSafe 3 are both nice additions, but this isn't that substantial of an upgrade over its predecessor otherwise (if it was, I'd be getting one).

 

[mrmister]

I said that a slow disk will take all of the performance benefits you cited from Apple's marketing pages that the M2 has over the M1 and render them moot.

This has been covered ad nauseum in the MBA forums—go and educate yourself. The short version is that no, the base model M2 does not have a SLOW DISK that is percievable to normal humans unless you run pro tasks...which are exactly the kind of tasks a MBA isn't even made to do.

Note that it still does them! It just doesn't do them as fast as one bump up in storage. All these tasks, like putting blurs on 50 different 40 megabyte images at once.

It's an utter non issue. And if it IS an issue for you...um, don't get the base model!

But others are right that you're are talking out of your tuckus with what you are saying—you're massively overstating this, and don't even seem to have taken the time to understand it.

 

[mrmister]

My point to you is that a M2 MacBook Air with 8GB of RAM and a 256GB SSD is shown, again, by TONS of videos and legitimate reviewers, to be outperformed by the M1 MacBook Air with 8GB of RAM and a 256GB SSD.

Doing massively intensive SSD benchmarks and things no normal base model MBA gets bought to do. But please, go on at incredible length...

 

[mrmister]

and then crippling it

Also stop with the ableist talk that is also very hyperbolic.

 

[mrmister]

I'm sorry, but "design language" is a superficial feature when I'm spending a four-digit figure on a device.

I'm sorry but people who say this shouldn't have Apple products.

I can't declare that—it's a free world!—but man.

 

[Ethosik]

This has been covered ad nauseum in the MBA forums—go and educate yourself. The short version is that no, the base model M2 does not have a SLOW DISK that is percievable to normal humans unless you run pro tasks...which are exactly the kind of tasks a MBA isn't even made to do.

Note that it still does them! It just doesn't do them as fast as one bump up in storage. All these tasks, like putting blurs on 50 different 40 megabyte images at once.

It's an utter non issue. And if it IS an issue for you...um, don't get the base model!

But others are right that you're are talking out of your tuckus with what you are saying—you're massively overstating this, and don't even seem to have taken the time to understand it.

I don't understand all this "slow" nonsense. It is shocking how I can get some productivity done on SATA SSDs still......¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Even with my Mac Pro running at SATA 2 speeds its perfectly fine.

 

[rmadsen3]

Does someone here know about the layout/design/structure for higher-end storage? For instance is it 1×1TB or is it 2×512GB? Is it 1×2TB or is it 2×1TB? Does the answer differ for MBA versus MBP? Thanks.

 

[mrmister]

Yes, all the other levels are two chips, each with half the storage.

 

[planteater]

You speak like someone who thinks they know more about these things than you actually do. I have no problem with people who know these things. I also have no problem with people that don't know these things. But people that speak like they know much more than they do (as is evident by the actual things they say)? Those people are taxing. Enough to make the kindest people get unreasonably angry. So, I say back to you: Be better.



Nope. Never said that. I said that a slow disk will take all of the performance benefits you cited from Apple's marketing pages that the M2 has over the M1 and render them moot. This has been demoed by many reviewers and testers.



Again, didn't ever say that. You are definitely putting words in my mouth.



In the video below, they are responding to not only the kinds of reviews you just linked, but also the backlash from Apple fans that are in denial that Apple could possibly cheap out on the 256GB SSD.

This is not to discredit the clip you linked to, nor to suggest that someone who doesn't do much with their computer won't have a perfectly okay time on Apple's 256GB drives for those Macs. But, if it's my hard-earned money AND that much of it, I'm not buying a drive that is subpar compared to one that is in the predecessor product. These things cost too much to make those kinds of concessions even if I just so happen to be lucky and have a use case for the Mac that won't be as affected by the cheaper/weaker drive.




You take the two SoCs in a vacuum, give them ample cooling and a decent SSD, there is no question in my mind about the M2 being more performant than the M1.

But yes, what we're talking about here isn't the SoC itself. It's the systems that they go into. I'd imagine that an M2 13" MacBook Pro with 16GB of RAM and a 512GB SSD will outperform an M1 13" MacBook Pro with 16GB of RAM and a 512GB SSD. My point to you is that a M2 MacBook Air with 8GB of RAM and a 256GB SSD is shown, again, by TONS of videos and legitimate reviewers, to be outperformed by the M1 MacBook Air with 8GB of RAM and a 256GB SSD. Those are facts. Whether or not those things matter to you, whether or not you think those things outweigh all of the other things that an M2 MacBook Air brings to the table, whether or not you think that it's a better overall package; all of these things are 100% irrelevant to the forum topic.




Good for you?


You are doing that thing that every Apple fan does when a new design of Apple product is launched and suddenly it's almost as though the new design is unilaterally an upgrade over the predecessor design like it's the launch of an entirely new and game changing product. This is much more of a cult-like behavior than the act of nay-saying and saying that it's not that big of an improvement.

For the record, I'm not the hugest fan of the notch, nor the rounded screen corners, but I'm otherwise ambivalent. "Religious" and "Ambivalent" generally don't go together in the same sentence when speaking of something being part of one's religion; though I do appreciate your concern.

I just don't see the M2 Air as all that much of a step up from its predecessor. Again, a better webcam and MagSafe 3 are both nice additions, but this isn't that substantial of an upgrade over its predecessor otherwise (if it was, I'd be getting one).

I stopped watching Max Tech when he started comparing the transfer time of a 40GB file and talking about large RAW files.

I can’t help but wonder what person doing either of those activities would own a base laptop with a 256GB drive. Lol.

Now if we were comparing the performance of large accounting spreadsheets, or the smooth page transitions of a soon to be best selling romance novel while its author furiously pecks at the keyboard, then we’d have a showdown. Bring it on.

 

[hans1972]

Exactly how consumers are supposed to figure out that the newest iteration of a highly lauded product is actually downgraded on a key spec I simply don't see.

Wouldn't they discover it when they use the machine?

So, they have 14 days to return it.

 

[fisherking]

am so enjoying living & working on my *gasp* entry-level M2 air, that not even the doomsayers on this forum can upset me... 👍

 

[Apples n' Stone]

Sorry to bang this drum again but I wanted to contribute as an actual user of the 256GB SSD to those who would not benefit from paying to increase the capacity to 512GB.

That "slow" SSD feels seamless. I think we are beyond the point of the speed differences affecting the workloads of most users; take those benchmarks you'll find online with a pinch of salt.

My 16GB RAM upgrade means I have about 6GB of cached files for more efficient handling of the stuff I use the most. My point is that the files I am using the most are being cached in the memory. So even for true "pro" users, with a high amount of RAM you might find those large files you work with are handled by this incredible processor and it's unified memory.

For my use case, the bigger SSD even with it being faster is simply not worth the premium. I strongly suspect if you are thinking about buying this laptop you will be in that same category.

 

[MandiMac]

Wouldn't they discover it when they use the machine?

So, they have 14 days to return it.

Or they simply read it on MacRumors and try to make a scene out of nothing. Das ist was mit dem Wissen.

 

[gmanjeff]

Sorry to bang this drum again but I wanted to contribute as an actual user of the 256GB SSD to those who would not benefit from paying to increase the capacity to 512GB.

That "slow" SSD feels seamless. I think we are beyond the point of the speed differences affecting the workloads of most users; take those benchmarks you'll find online with a pinch of salt.

My 16GB RAM upgrade means I have about 6GB of cached files for more efficient handling of the stuff I use the most. My point is that the files I am using the most are being cached in the memory. So even for true "pro" users, with a high amount of RAM you might find those large files you work with are handled by this incredible processor and it's unified memory.

For my use case, the bigger SSD even with it being faster is simply not worth the premium. I strongly suspect if you are thinking about buying this laptop you will be in that same category.

Yes, it's true. Your 16MB RAM upgrade mitigates some of the issues with 8/256 base model. Less swap! I went with the 16/512 config myself.

 

[maka344]

I initially went with the 8/512gb but in the end, the 8GB RAM was using 1GB+ swap on a regular basis with only light usage (tabs, YT, etc) thus, I went with 10c/16gb/1TB because Apple stocked this config without waiting for a BTO. The only upgrade that I'd leave is the 10 Core.

 

[DavidChoux]

In the video below, they are responding to not only the kinds of reviews you just linked, but also the backlash from Apple fans that are in denial that Apple could possibly cheap out on the 256GB SSD.

We need to stop using that video as reference.

A user here (I forgot who, sorry) made a very detailed post showing how Max Tech consistently had the 256GB model in an almost full SSD state (while the 512GB model had plenty of room left) throughout their testing. It's not surprising that a nearly full SSD is slower than one that's at only about half capacity.

 

[lemonkid]

I stopped watching Max Tech when he started comparing the transfer time of a 40GB file and talking about large RAW files.

I can’t help but wonder what person doing either of those activities would own a base laptop with a 256GB drive. Lol.

Now if we were comparing the performance of large accounting spreadsheets, or the smooth page transitions of a soon to be best selling romance novel while its author furiously pecks at the keyboard, then we’d have a showdown. Bring it on.

Is the Max Tech video guy telling me that he is so Max Teched that he copies those files FROM the drive that sits next to his machine TO the machine he is working on? Well I really have to advice him that it is a much better idea to KEEP those files on that External Drive. That way you save space on your internal drive and you can work with your MacBook ON the external drive, and you do not copy anything. Start up the program that you need to work with on your Mac and open/save your files on the external.

And when done copy all your work to another external or NAS drive. But not to your Mac!

Any Professional would work that way. And when working on something that really matters for work or likewise that's important to you, you don't open up a variety of random chosen app's. You close them instead and then restart your computer before you begin your work.

Furthermore you can keep your computer running for a night every now and then. It will do it's maintenance. Every SSD needs that occasionally.

 

[Mainsail]

Currently, I own a 2020 i3 MBA. I consider myself a typical base MBA customer, and we have bought many different models for family members over the years. Here is what I do with my MBA:

Mail
Messages
Contacts
Calendars/Reminders
Notes
FaceTime/Zoom
Safari
Finder
iWork
MS Office
Photos
iMovie (A few times per year. Usually glorified 3-5 minute slide shows for family events)

As I said, I believe this is typical base MBA use, and from what I have seen in reviews the M2 would be a huge step up compared to my current machine and better than the M1 for most of these tasks. For me, the big appeal would be fan-less operation and much longer battery life compared to my i3.

 

[maka344]

Currently, I own a 2020 i3 MBA. I consider myself a typical base MBA customer, and we have bought many different models for family members over the years. Here is what I do with my MBA:

Mail
Messages
Contacts
Calendars/Reminders
Notes
FaceTime/Zoom
Safari
Finder
iWork
MS Office
Photos
iMovie (A few times per year. Usually glorified 3-5 minute slide shows for family events)

As I said, I believe this is typical base MBA use, and from what I have seen in reviews the M2 would be a huge step up compared to my current machine and better than the M1 for most of these tasks. For me, the big appeal would be fan-less operation and much longer battery life compared to my i3.

Would you stick with the base 8GB of RAM for your workflow?

 

[Mainsail]

Would you stick with the base 8GB of RAM for your workflow?

Yes, I would probably just get the base model.

 

[maka344]

Yes, I would probably just get the base model.

Will that be enough RAM for your workflow?

 

[Mainsail]

Will that be enough RAM for your workflow?

Right now, I never run into problems using the i3 2020 MBA with 8GB, so I doubt it would be an issue with the M2. As I mentioned, the main benefits to me would be fan-less operation and better battery life. Honestly, I could get those things with the base M1 MBA, and it is more likely to be on sale. The M2 has improved FaceTime camera and MagSafe, which would also be nice....but not that big of a deal for me. If I do decide to replace my current MBA, I will probably pick the M2.....just because it is nice to have the latest design.

 

[playtech1]

I think the bigger issue than a hobbled SSD is bumping up the price so much without also bumping up the SSD size (and RAM for that matter), when additional hardware costs are pretty much minimal.

That to one side, I think this is bad form by Apple - it may be fine for a casual user, but you could also say that about a used 2014 Air. The fact is that this is an expensive laptop and should be configured to match.

 

[ILoveCalvinCool]

That to one side, I think this is bad form by Apple - it may be fine for a casual user

The Air is Apple's laptop for casual users. The base model is for the most casual of casual users. It is the lowest-end machine in Apple's computer lineup. If it is "fine for a casual user" then it is 100% fine for the very userbase it targets. It's literally the computer I bought my grandmother so she could look at Facebook.

 

[playtech1]

The Air is Apple's laptop for casual users. The base model is for the most casual of casual users. It is the lowest-end machine in Apple's computer lineup. If it is "fine for a casual user" then it is 100% fine for the very userbase it targets. It's literally the computer I bought my grandmother so she could look at Facebook.

I think of it as the laptop for people who want the latest Mac but whose budget can't stretch beyond £1,250 - so not just casual users.