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If this is the case with the release, it's going to be a very long time before I move from 9.2. This is an idiotic move. I waited 2 months for a $100 accessory that they're taking functionality away from?

Boo.
 
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Could be the decision resulted from the idea that app developers will be lazy and optimise their IPP app interface to use with pencil only and not touch, which shouldn't be as it should be finger first and pencil as an add-on?
That's probably the desire. However, if that's the case it was a mistake to release the Pencil with those capabilities enabled in the first place.
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Of course I am. Is it too much to expect a "pro" tablet to be able to handle the most basic functions? The ipad is a huge headache when it comes to business type tasks. For social media, movie watching, basic note taking, Facetime, iMessage and other consumption tasks, the ipad is unbeatable. However, I have yet to see a huge difference between the Air 2 and the Pro aside from screen size and a pencil which apparently has limited functionality. It still runs a mobile OS that is completely app based, and still has to operate within the strict confines and limitations of ios. I like ios for what it is, but I'm just wondering what the pro does that lends itself to true business productivity.
For artists the Pencil is a big deal.
 
What you see as "dumbing down" I see as "having focus". Apple is intent, and focused on creating a touch based app ecosystem. That is their mission. They also decided that within that ecosystem they wanted to have a Pencil for drawing and writing. But that is to play a smaller role inside their touch-based vision.

Some people (myself included) enjoy using devices with a razor sharp focus and purposeful design intent. I would rather have a device that is an absolute master at a few key tasks rather than a "general purpose" device that just does some stuff ok with many tradeoffs.

Other people are generalists and want machines to do a variety of tasks... there are plenty of platforms out there for those people. From your signature and your post I gather that you are one of them... I'm glad you were able to make the decision to switch to something that better meets your needs. However, I do question why you're still here...

If you mean having focus by dumbing down the program then I completely agree. Ditch functional parts of a program to make it more touch friendly and you have apps. The funny thing is that the loss of functionality in many cases makes the app actually more difficult to use than using the desktop counterpart. I think the largest example of "razor sharp focus" is the lack of a filesystem because consumers are too dumb to navigate one.

What's nice is that my tablet has "razor sharp focus" because it has apps also, but at the same time can be used as a full PC. It's about choice, having the choice to use my stylus to drive the UI if I want to even though it's not made for that is powerful. Not having the choice, well it's powerless. Why limit yourself?

As for why I'm still here, I laugh whenever I hear this, it sounds a bit childish. I still contribute to the forums, if anything a dissenting opinion is valuable as it encourages discussion and puts things in Apple's view. Do you want all Apple dissenters Gestapo'd from the forums? Are you more comfortable with only Apple lovers on the forum? Sorry, I still own Apple products, I think they are a great company and really love their hardware. But if they deserve criticism, or if they nix a feature that is useful to me, you can bet I'll voice my opinion. Here's another hint, look back on this thread and count how many are unsatisfied with this decision. Representative of overall consumers? Maybe not, but still you get to see what should be a hardcore Apple majority actually complain about a feature being removed. Maybe you should wonder why all those who dissent in this thread are still here?
 
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Apple created the device so they can certainly make it work the way they intend(ed) for it to work: https://www.macrumors.com/2015/11/17/apple-pencil-jony-ive/

No one said Apple couldn't make the device work they way they intended, least of all me. I said Apple can't decide what your use of the pencil will be. People have found creative uses for every product ever invented. Uses beyond the manufacturers imagined use case.

As an aside, if Apple decides how you, C DM, use your products... that says something about you. What it is, I don't know. But it's something.

The pencil's purpose is not to just draw/write? ...What?

I'm pretty sure that is the main and only purpose for it. No where in the keynote when they announced it did they highlight UI scrolling. No where in any of their documents on the Apple Pencil do they mention UI scrolling. The keynote when they announced it was all about drawing/writing and nothing else (besides the tech involved.) In their documents about the Apple Pencil is all about drawing/writing and nothing else (besides the tech involved.)

If drawing/writing is all they've ever mention for the purpose of the pencil, then I would safely assume it's purpose is only drawing/writing.

It's a keynote. It's used to introduce new products and services. It's not a detailed breakdown of all the benefits and features. It's a product highlight. Regarding your safe assumption? Might I suggest a bit more imagination. Besides, Apple had more imagination. They gave the pencil capabilities beyond drawing and writing.
 
Daggers out already on a function that has been removed from a beta, probably to test something else.

Imagine a world where everyone didn't jump to conclusions. :)
 
So I'm using my pencil and when I need to do some multi tasking from app to app or go back to find something on my springboard I have to put the pencil down or hold it in a handicapped way in order to navigate the UI?

I agree - it does not make sense at all. When I use a pen/stylus on a device I expect it to do everything that I can do with a single finger. As you say: Switching grip or putting the pen down to just do a quick tap/selection with my finger (anything that does not require multi touch) is just stupid. The pen is already there in my hand, ready for that exact task.
 
It seems strange at first, but I wonder if they are attempting to prevent development of apps that require a stylus to navigate a UI that is so 'busy' that it makes normal touch navigation impossible. Even if that's their logic, maybe they should make it an option and give users the choice.
 
I'll venture that this has to do with the new iPad getting force touch, and the stylus not spreading the pressure over a large enough area as a finger.
 
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No one said Apple couldn't make the device work they way they intended, least of all me. I said Apple can't decide what your use of the pencil will be. People have found creative uses for every product ever invented. Uses beyond the manufacturers imagined use case.

As an aside, if Apple decides how you, C DM, use your products... that says something about you. What it is, I don't know. But it's something.



It's a keynote. It's used to introduce new products and services. It's not a detailed breakdown of all the benefits and features. It's a product highlight. Regarding your safe assumption? Might I suggest a bit more imagination. Besides, Apple had more imagination. They gave the pencil capabilities beyond drawing and writing.
Well, clearly if Apple decides that the pencil isn't a stylus then you wouldn't be able to use it as one, which is Apple basically deciding if for you. Otherwise it's one of those jumping over hour heard type of situations, whether you can imagine it or not. The article that I linked to also demonstrated what Apple had in mind with the pencil, beyond the keynote or anything else.

So, as an aside, seems like all it might say about me is that I take a pragmatic approach to things, which is a fairly normal thing (although perhaps not as common as it should be). Now, the relevance of trying to bring up some aside about someone rather than just sticking to the actual discussion, well, that is another thing in and of itself.
 
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I think the largest example of "razor sharp focus" is the lack of a filesystem because consumers are too dumb to navigate one.

iOS has a filesystem, obviously, and it operates under a logical design philosophy: you interact with files via the apps that use them. And if you really want a "Windows Explorer" type app to browse/move/copy/delete files, there are apps that do that, you just haven't bothered to look for them.

It sounds like you simply weren't willing, or weren't able, to learn how to use iOS. That's ok, there are other choices out there.
 
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Daggers out already on a function that has been removed from a beta, probably to test something else.

Imagine a world where everyone didn't jump to conclusions. :)

I jump to conclusions because this is exactly the kind of boneheaded move they've made in the past, most recently by disabling BT Keyboard and Remote App support in the ATV4 in an attempt to force people to use their horrible touchpad remote. (which didn't work... most people I know use an old Apple remote or universal remote instead).

As well, for many of us our iPad Pro is a big part of working and leisure life, and a potential change like this impacts us pretty heavily. So, yes, please excuse us if we express some concern.
 
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It's a keynote. It's used to introduce new products and services. It's not a detailed breakdown of all the benefits and features. It's a product highlight. Regarding your safe assumption? Might I suggest a bit more imagination. Besides, Apple had more imagination. They gave the pencil capabilities beyond drawing and writing.

I hear you man - like - I don't remember the original keynotes talking anything about how to remove apps from the phone so I never did it. I figured if Apple wanted me to delete an App I downloaded, it would have been featured during the keynote, right?
 
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Well, clearly if Apple decides that the pencil isn't a stylus then you wouldn't be able to use it as one, which is Apple basically deciding if for you. Otherwise it's one of those jumping over hour heard type of situations, whether you can imagine it or not. The article that I linked to also demonstrated what Apple had in mind with the pencil, beyond the keynote or anything else.

What? The pencil isn't a stylus? Maybe in the alternate reality of Ive. By every definition of what it does, it's a stylus. How did it come to be called a pencil? Easy, Ive made it up. How do I know? It's right in the article you linked.
Ive went on to talk about the naming of the Apple Pencil, explaining that he preferred "Pencil" to "stylus" because stylus "seems a product that's about technology," while Pencil "seems very analogue in its association.
That's pure Ive hubris... and marketing. A+ marketing. It's so good you have people doing mental gymnastics defending the "fact" it's a pencil and not a stylus. There's no science, technology, or wizardry that makes Apple's stylus a pencil. It's simply Ive deciding to call it that.

Clearly a portion of the market thinks they have the right to use the pencil in the way they see fit. Apple's vision notwithstanding. That's the way it should be; people using their products the way they want. Fortunately for those people, remaining on 9.2 allows them to continue to use their pencils they way they want.
 
What? The pencil isn't a stylus? Maybe in the alternate reality of Ive. By every definition of what it does, it's a stylus. How did it come to be called a pencil? Easy, Ive made it up. How do I know? It's right in the article you linked.
Ive went on to talk about the naming of the Apple Pencil, explaining that he preferred "Pencil" to "stylus" because stylus "seems a product that's about technology," while Pencil "seems very analogue in its association.
That's pure Ive hubris... and marketing. A+ marketing. It's so good you have people doing mental gymnastics defending the "fact" it's a pencil and not a stylus. There's no science, technology, or wizardry that makes Apple's stylus a pencil. It's simply Ive deciding to call it that.

Clearly a portion of the market thinks they have the right to use the pencil in the way they see fit. Apple's vision notwithstanding. That's the way it should be; people using their products the way they want. Fortunately for those people, remaining on 9.2 allows them to continue to use their pencils they way they want.
I'm simply pointing out what Apple has seemingly had in mind with it all. No mental or other types gymnastics involved, just talking about the "is" aspect of it all, and not the "could/should". No commentary on my part has been offered as to it being good or bad or right or wrong.
 
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I'm simply pointing out what Apple has seemingly had in mind with it all. No mental or other types gymnastics involved, just talking about the "is" aspect of it all, and not the "could/should". No commentary on my part has been offered as to it being good or bad or right or wrong.

I got that.

But I still can't understand WHY the change? if people want to use the Pencil for UI navigation, why not let them? the hubris of Apple in cases like this baffle me.
 
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But I still can't understand WHY the change? if people want to use the Pencil for UI navigation, why not let them? the hubris of Apple in cases like this baffle me.

I agree. Apple sometimes reminds me of a parent interacting with their kids and deciding what is best for them. Telling the kid they can't do something and when asked why, the answer is "because I told you so".
 
I got that.

But I still can't understand WHY the change? if people want to use the Pencil for UI navigation, why not let them? the hubris of Apple in cases like this baffle me.
I'm guessing they are trying to make it work the way they meant it to work which means addressing the oversight of releasing it the way they did with what is unintended additional functionality on their part. Now in this case the unintended functionality has turned out to be something useful to many, which certainly makes it a more complex and complicated issue.

There may very wel be other reasons promoting them to take it on now rather than just letting it be essentially, like some that have been brought up in relation to perhaps developers starting to rely on the pencil as an actual navigation and interactin tool, which is likely not what Apple would like to to be the case. However, again, that doesn't really mean that those who have been using it for those porposes and would like to keep using it in such manner would be seeing an improvement and would be losing functionality that is useful to them.
 
iOS has a filesystem, obviously, and it operates under a logical design philosophy: you interact with files via the apps that use them. And if you really want a "Windows Explorer" type app to browse/move/copy/delete files, there are apps that do that, you just haven't bothered to look for them.

It sounds like you simply weren't willing, or weren't able, to learn how to use iOS. That's ok, there are other choices out there.

No, I actually ran iOS for several years. My latest foray was using the iPhone 6s+ for about 4 months, very nice phone. I delved deep into the functionality, even jailbreaking to regain some functionality I needed. I'm very familiar with iOS.
 
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I'm simply pointing out what Apple has seemingly had in mind with it all. No mental or other types gymnastics involved, just talking about the "is" aspect of it all, and not the "could/should". No commentary on my part has been offered as to it being good or bad or right or wrong.

Just out of curiosity, do you think that Apple should extent the return period for Pencil? If I had bought the Pencil with the idea of using it to navigate and then they removed it months later I would be pissed.
 
I agree. Apple sometimes reminds me of a parent interacting with their kids and deciding what is best for them. Telling the kid they can't do something and when asked why, the answer is "because I told you so".
Well, to be fair, just to go with that particular comparison, in plenty of those situations the parents are in the right usually.
 
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Well, to be fair, just to go with that particular comparison, in plenty of those situations the parents are in the right usually.

Actually, it's often a case of what's easiest and least path or resistance vs being right. Not always - but often.
 
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