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Inaugural Winter PowerPC Challenge! January 1-7, 2017

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The first post of this thread is a WikiPost and can be edited by anyone with the appropiate permissions. Your edits will be public.

1st Week of January, 2017? (Jan 1-Jan 7)

  • Total voters
    26
  • Poll closed .
ziggy29 said:
Final day, final endeavor: Running all day on my G4/550 Pismo with two fully charged (and fully good!) batteries installed. There's a total of 11,400 mAh (6600 and 4800). Running almost an hour, still 92% battery.
Click to expand...
I managed to use it with battery-conservation settings for about six hours (plus a couple hours of sleep) and still had 31% of battery life remaining. I pulled out the first one when it was down to about 10% (gotta protect these old working batteries!) and switched over to the second battery's power, which outlasted me. That suggests I could have had 8-9 hours out of it all together. Another reason to love the Pismo!
 
durika175 said:
All right guys.. Today is the end of this challenge.. This week was really interesting tho..
My G4 iBook survived several damages during this week.. It had a main board issue, AirPort issue later my cousin broke my screen and keyboard... Currently is working fine :)
My question is.. Why my G4 iBook was faster than my PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0GHz ?
I tried several apps how they perform on G5 and how they perform on G4..
I later found why sometimes G4 is faster than G5... Some Apps are optimized for single core or they are just apps around G4 era..
The biggest surprise to me was working PowerBook G4 Ti. That laptop doesn't want to boot at all .. So in summer 2016 i put into "ShitBox" (its a box with unworking stuff) In 6th of January 2017 i tried to fix it..
Surprise i needed to replace screen,hinges,keyboard keys,dvd drive, DC jack, and AirPort card..
I tried to power it up and ! That sound make me happy :) I was excited how it perform with L3 cache..
Installed Leopard and everything works but bottom SDRAM slot doesn't work.. That PB is 17yrs old and its faster than my current iBook G4 1.33GHz.. That was my first experience of true L3 cache..
Well my week was really interesting because my experience with PowerPC was really good.. My MDD was daily driver until August 2016, and then it broke.. So later i bought a iMac G5 2GHz and 4 weeks later it had a issue with Capacitors.. :/ So i abandoned PowerPC for a little bit.. This year i participed PowerPC Challenge 2017. This week was a really tough for PowerPC to use in modern world..
I had issues with:
Google Drive(cant upload files from system)
My file server was not visible in OS X network (i tried insert manually ip but os x cant connect to it..)
iTunes cant backup my iPhone 5S because its too old.. And i Image Capture doesn't work with 5S at all..
Youtube struggled a LOT but later i discovered PPC media center..
Spotify its too old to sync playlists..
iChat doesn't work anymore with my Google account..
Mail every time i opened it it crashed..
VLC on my iB G4 can't play 720p but on PB Ti 867MHz it does..
TenFourFox was usually slower than Safari, but i used always Safari it was faster to open and load sites.
Remote Desktop Connection with DATA SERVER does not work.. anymore
I can't download Flash 11.7, any website that had one their server doesnt work.

I will continue to use PowerPC tech as long as i can.. But i will use PB G4 Ti as my portable PC..
[doublepost=1483884388][/doublepost]My two reliable and durable PPC machines :) ❤
Click to expand...

Kudos, Mr.Scotty - you've fixed your machines faster than they broke ...

Really interesting to read your about those differences in speed on your different machines.
Since you also use an iPhone as your PPC companion you should definitely try "iFiles" to use the phone for managing and connecting the PPCs and the Cloud.
Did you try webkit+clicktoplugin(360p)+coreplayer for YT video?
Can you tell more about RDP-Connection failure? I also had such problems and switched to VirtualPC+WinXP to solve that.
Mail ought to work - I use it regularly on all my machines for IMAP mail.
Hold on...
 
OK so now that the week is over i have to report that i had no real issues using my G5 for a week. youtube was annoying but since i am on break from college over the xmas/new year. i wasn't typing up any documents or anything. wasn't doing research online or anything like that so i was pretty much just watching shows and browsing wikipedia and imgur. so i guess i had no issues at all really.
 
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I finally shut down my Pismo, fired up the 1.67, G4 and the G5. They work fine for my everyday use.
I have considered finding a 5,1 Mac Pro, but fiddling with the G4 and G5 are fun enough.
Thanks for the formal opportunity to pull out the older ppc's and reliving the memories.
 
Finally, a post brought to you by my eMac :p

I was wondering the other day: How of us taking the challenge are running what OS? I know most PPC enthusiasts on this board run 10.5, but I personally run 10.4 on both of my main Macs, and I have seen a few people here in this thread stating they have been running it as well. Would be neat to see a poll of some sort on the matter.
 
Remarkably I find Leopard still holds up pretty well in 2017. The only major areas where I missed more modern Mac OS was iCloud sync (which we used to have with .Mac) and with video streaming from NHL.TV. I still find Leopard to be a find OS for my needs.



The hardware on the desktop side still suites my needs for the most part. I had no issues using my G5s and dual CPU MDDs for a week. Where the struggle really hurt was obviously mobile computing. Adding more MHz is nice, but the lack of multiple cores in PowerBooks and iBooks REALLY sucks. It may not have been as obvious back in 2005 why Apple needed to switch chips, but it sure rings true today. I found myself really wishing Apple had shipped a PowerBook with the dual core Freescale e600 G4s in it.
 
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So here I am, typing this on my G5, 1 week later. I successfully passed the challenge, with ease might I add. My dual 2.3GHz PowerMac G5 from 2005 has proven itself worthy of being capable for daily usage. I was able to type up my documents, print them by emailing them to my printer, watch 480p YouTube with no stutter at all (I find waiting until the video is buffered all the way through allows the video to play normally, both on G4s and G5s), and i was able to play some entertaining games. The only thing any of my many PowerPC macs failed at was iCloud and getting pictures/video off my GoPro Hero4. Besides that, I could get by on my G5 along with G4 laptops with ease. That being said, it'll be nice to go back to using my PC, iMac, and MBP. The PC is the most powerful computer i own, in terms of CPU and GPU performace (CPU is due for an upgrade however...). The MBP is my best laptop and best Mac. The iMac is an awesome TV and media center, and even though its only 1 year newer than this G5, it can run all the way up to Mountain Lion with full (unofficial) support.

Also, since it appears everyone had a lot of fun taking part in this, and i know a lot of people who wanted to do it, but didnt get a chance due to the short notice, I'm going to make this into a yearly tradition. It will take place every year from now on from January 1st to January 7th, as it did this year. Its the perfect time and method to see how its become more difficult to use our trusty PowerPC Macs year over year.

On a final note, I'd like to thank everyone who participated in this. I believe we had 50 members sign up for this, give or take a few. I'd like to thank @Altemose for suggesting the idea in the first place. Lastly, I'd like to give a shout-out to all those who only use PowerPC Macs still to this day. While I personally didn't have any issues, i do miss the speed, performance, and modernisity of the computers I had to sacrifice. While 50 of us did it for a week with many failing, you guys have been doing this since 2005 or longer.

Once again, thank you to all who participated in this event, and I look forward to doing this again next year!
 
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durika175 said:
Google Drive(cant upload files from system)
My file server was not visible in OS X network (i tried insert manually ip but os x cant connect to it..)
iTunes cant backup my iPhone 5S because its too old.. And i Image Capture doesn't work with 5S at all..
Youtube struggled a LOT but later i discovered PPC media center..
Spotify its too old to sync playlists..
iChat doesn't work anymore with my Google account..
Mail every time i opened it it crashed..
VLC on my iB G4 can't play 720p but on PB Ti 867MHz it does..
TenFourFox was usually slower than Safari, but i used always Safari it was faster to open and load sites.
Remote Desktop Connection with DATA SERVER does not work.. anymore
I can't download Flash 11.7, any website that had one their server doesnt work.
Click to expand...

1. Google Drive does appear to work when launched from TenFourFox to upload and download files. Google Docs and other Google Apps do not appear to work fluidly.

2. What software is your server using and what protocol were you using to connect?

3. The app iFiles has been stated to work with syncing with PowerPC. I have not personally tried it...

4. Leopard WebKit and the ClickToPlugin extension also provide a good YouTube experience.

5. The final Spotify version for PPC does appear to still sync playlists, but the radio function is broken. Furthermore, the web version can be used in a TenFourFoxBox and does maintain full functionality.

6. iChat does work with Google, but it can only be used for direct IM. Group chat is not working and if you have two-step authentication enabled, an application password must be created through Google.

7. Oftentimes, corrupted Mail account profiles will crash the program. You can try removing them in System Preferences.

8. VLC performs better on the TiBook most likely due to the L3 cache.

9. TenFourFox does perform admirably if you apply @eyoungren's tweaks or use the SpeedyFox extension. Bluhell Firewall is the best ad blocking platform for TenFourFox.

10. Remote Desktop functionality issues may be due to security settings. What OS and client are you working with?

11. Flash has been disabled in TenFourFox, and most copies of the Flash plugin are no longer accepted by websites regardless of whether they are original versions or the spoofed version numbers.

Sorry for typing this out in the bulleted format, but a number of these issues are not directly related to PowerPC but rather the install that you have. I wonder how many of these issues would be resolved by starting fresh.

durika175 said:
Yes, i tryed clicktoplugin doesnt work and i cant find coreplayer..
I downloaded PPC Media center and that thing solved to me many issues..
Click to expand...

I have yet to get PPC Media Center to work on my system. Can you describe how the program is used and what is needed to get it running?
 
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Altemose said:
9. TenFourFox does perform admirably if you apply @eyoungren's tweaks or use the SpeedyFox extension. Bluhell Firewall is the best ad blocking platform for TenFourFox.
Click to expand...
NOTE: The following is just some observations I've made over the years and is not a specific rant or attack against anyone. Just want to make that clear.

I will just add here that despite my continued statements some people who install my prefs file or apply the tweaks simply do not go far enough.

AdBlock and it's derivatives were first to market, back when blocking ads was an easier thing. People hold on to it. And Ghostery. Despite both addons having serious, unfixed memory leaks they continue to be used. Perhaps, because using them on Intel systems shrouds the fact. Unfortunately it matters with our older systems.

Even if you don't use my settings, an adblocker and a script blocker are essential for modern day browsing on T4Fx. Even if it's NoScript and Request Policy, two addons I used previously. Use something (I recommend uMatrix and BluHell)! But for goddsake don't use anything with AdBlock in the name! Hell, they even charge advertisers for a way around their ad blocking!

My tweaks are not a panacea or a silver bullet and I recognize there are 'edge' cases where they will just make things absolutely worse. But if you have the ram, a Mac with no serious issues, a broadband connection and have done things correctly you should see a performance increase.

Lastly, as I have also explained before, my tweaks are not about speed. They are about optimizing page loading. Doing that reduces CPU load and returns the CPU to idle in the fastest amount of time possible. The end result IS faster page loading but my objective has always been to reduce the amount of time the CPU is pegged at 100%. I point this out because there is some times the misconception that my tweaks and addons will suddenly turn T4Fx into a speed demon. Not ever going to be the case.

Just making some observations here…
 
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eyoungren said:
I point this out because there is some times the misconception that my tweaks and addons will suddenly turn T4Fx into a speed demon. Not ever going to be the case.

Just making some observations here…
Click to expand...

Most people upon first observation will know that any Mozilla based browser is going to be behind WebKit based browsers. Your tweaks, especially some of the main ones, make a night and day difference to the point where my TenFourFox profile, which is simply a select number of your tweaks and Bluhell Firewall, keeps pace with both Leopard WebKit and Roccat (based off WebKit). There are numerous extensions and add-ons that are in the Firefox library that will bring TenFourFox to its knees on a PPC simply due to underlying crap code that is masked by the power of Intel machines, as you stated.
 
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Altemose said:
5. The final Spotify version for PPC does appear to still sync playlists, but the radio function is broken. Furthermore, the web version can be used in a TenFourFoxBox and does maintain full functionality

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I have yet to get PPC Media Center to work on my system. Can you describe how the program is used and what is needed to get it running?
Click to expand...
Doesn't Spotify Web use flash player? If so you won't obtain nothing with a foxbox sadly.

As regards PPC media Center just go to PPC Luddite and download the 6.0 version. It will install Perian and Python, which are needed for it to work. It is very simple to do.
 
I had fun with the challenge and pleasantly surprised how capable my PowerMac G5 was. I'm not too heavily invested in cloud services, being an older luddite who still uses a local mail client (with IMAP) and still has a large local iTunes library. The TiBook 667Mhz was very capable of running normal applications but too slow for modern web use.

Only real annoyance I encountered was being able to get photos off my iPhone. So I went back to using an period correct Nikon Coolpix and a CompactFlash to PCMCIA adaptor with the TiBook.

Gaming - don't do much of that nowadays. Had a quick blast on Halo and AoE which was fun. I mostly Sim Race via iRacing so I carried on using the PC Gaming Rig for existing commitments and used the G5 for the social interactions around it where possible. I was already using Photoshop CS4 for image editing liveries before the challenge anyway.

Work - N/A. I have to use a work supplied laptop, so opted out of that part of the challenge.
 
I joined a bit late after seeing the posting on Retro Battlestations. I have been on macrumors before, but now I am signed up as a new user thanks to this challenge.

The PowerBook G4 is already my "go to" machine using Mac OS X 10.5.8, TenFourFox 7450, Mail, Terminal, Xcode, TextEdit, Preview, Dashcode and other programs like KEGSMAC (Apple IIgs emulator), macam (USB webcam driver), and GCC (the GNU Compiler Collection.) Last year I built gcc 5.3.0 on the PowerBook. It takes about 2 days to build! I built gcc 6.2.0 more recently. The Powerbook G4 works best with our new scanner / printer. The more "modern?" Windows PCs sometimes fail to print, and forget about trying to scan anything using Windows or Linux.

I have other PowerPC Macs. One of the PowerPC Macs, a Mac mini, is on most of the time -- I use it for making regular backups of the Macs and some PCs. And this week as part of the challenge I dug out yet another PowerPC Mac mini (1.42 Ghz PowerPC G4, 1GB DDR SDRAM) and powered it up -- it runs the fastest of all the PowerPC Macs I have.

I am definitely going to look into Bluehell Firewall and some of the other ways mentioned to help speed up TenFourFox. Thanks to all :)
 
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Altemose said:
1. Google Drive does appear to work when launched from TenFourFox to upload and download files. Google Docs and other Google Apps do not appear to work fluidly.

2. What software is your server using and what protocol were you using to connect?

3. The app iFiles has been stated to work with syncing with PowerPC. I have not personally tried it...

4. Leopard WebKit and the ClickToPlugin extension also provide a good YouTube experience.

5. The final Spotify version for PPC does appear to still sync playlists, but the radio function is broken. Furthermore, the web version can be used in a TenFourFoxBox and does maintain full functionality.

6. iChat does work with Google, but it can only be used for direct IM. Group chat is not working and if you have two-step authentication enabled, an application password must be created through Google.

7. Oftentimes, corrupted Mail account profiles will crash the program. You can try removing them in System Preferences.

8. VLC performs better on the TiBook most likely due to the L3 cache.

10. Remote Desktop functionality issues may be due to security settings. What OS and client are you working with?

11. Flash has been disabled in TenFourFox, and most copies of the Flash plugin are no longer accepted by websites regardless of whether they are original versions or the spoofed version numbers.

Sorry for typing this out in the bulleted format, but a number of these issues are not directly related to PowerPC but rather the install that you have. I wonder how many of these issues would be resolved by starting fresh.
Click to expand...

1. I was using TFF and sometimes my network is slooooow (100kb/s down)
2. Windows Server 2012 R2 64 BIT
3. Same, i dont have experience with that..
4. WebKit for me is little bit slower than Safari..
5. I like app, i dont like web versions, because my internet is slow to handle that..
6. I needed group chat..
7. Thanks, it worked for me..
8. L3 cache is slower than L2 cache.. And L2 cache i think its smaller than iBook have..
10. I used a Microsoft Remote Desktop i think 1.0.3.. OS X 10.5.8 and my server have SERVER 2012 R2
11. Flash works in Safari at all.. Its faster at 360p video playback thru flash .. HTML5 its not a good.. You can actually play flash videos, if your browser doesnt support that.. Like youtube, if your browser does not have enough capabilities to play HTML5 video it will play flash video instead..

Well take on mind that.. Im 16yrs old.. I met with PowerPC in 2015 so it´s been 2yr since i started to work on PPC machines.. I know that isnt directly related to PowerPC... But thats my experience and issues with "Leopard" system.. You can actually use it, but with some drawbacks/issues..
You know much more than me and you are better at PPC..
 
My conclusion after this years challenge is that Both my G4pm quicksilver and G5 powermac are still great daily drivers for me. I'm not a poweruser and certainly am not an industry guy so my needs don't necessitate cutting edge tech/OS. I can totally understand the folks on here who cannot meet industry/market demands on these old (albeit great) systems. For my ho-hum needs everything worked fine.

Surfing YT - (great on the g5, a whee bit slower on the g4 but still absolutely usable)
Slackchat web client - (Great on the g5, slower on the g4 but still absolutely usable. I did remark on its slowness on the G4 earlier in the week and while it is absolutely slower, I've been using it over the past two days and performance is not a deal breaker.)
MSOffice 08 - (all components worked fine on both machines.)
Websurfing - (worked fine on on both boxes with Webkit/Roccat but was most usable and stable on TFF+BHF+Eric's tweaks.)
Mail - (I used the OSX Mail client on these boxes and they both worked fine. Updating incoming mail was slower at times. Mail always hit my iphone first, then powermacs - often noticeable lag between the two. Moving forward, simply out of convenience & consistency for me, I will continue to access & conduct the majority of my mail using my iphone6s.)
Itunes - (Worked fine on both powermacs. I do not use the cloud for music. I instead have my library saved to a shared external drive. Unfortunately, my itunes wouldn't sync with my iphone6s. To share files, I used drop box which worked really well or would email them to myself.)
Google apps - (I don't use any of them except calendar really. I could log into google+ but it was laggy using all browsers. Once. in, google calendar worked fine for me. I could not connect to google drive though. I did not try the google office suite.)
Garageband, Audacity & reason - (All worked flawlessly on both the G4 and G5. G5 was noticeably faster especially when exporting but I was able to compose, record and create music on both without problem.)
Photoshop CS4 - (Worked fine on my G5. It is a fatboy of an app and doesnt run well at all on my G4. For this box, I have been using Seashore with great success. It's light so its snappy and has all of the basic functionality the non-professional digital arts hobbyist person needs I think to get the job done. I plan to get into CS2 soon for the G4)
Music streaming - (For music streaming, I still use Spotify. It has a good catalogue of my preferred genres: postrock, indie, rock etc. The ads do get annoying however so I rarely listen for too long but hey, it's free lol so it is what it is.)
Foxboxes - ( I have been enjoying FB for some neat added functionality like maps, the leopard store and icloud photo etc. It is slow to start up but once it's up & connected, speed is ok.)

I enjoyed the challenge this year. It certainly helped me to identify problems and fix them with the help/suggestions of folks here. I put these two power macs through their paces.
Reorganized ppc setup. lr.jpg
 
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Well, I have not been active on this thread very much, but I did participate. I started out with my 20" iMac G4 and it went splendid. Also got a bit of use out of my Late 2005 PowerBook, but it was limited to desktop use as the battery is not charging. Then, Saturday I got to end with a bang! Picked up a FREE PowerMac G5 Dual 2GHz PCI model (Early 2005). After all week on the G4s, this thing felt like a brand new PC, and after installing ClickToFlash, 720p YouTube all day, which is the majority of my computer use anyways.

I hope to participate more next year and upload plenty of photos from my, future, new office.

Now that the challenge is over, I will still be using my PPCs as my main computers, only using my i5 PC for some heavy lifting and my job/work machine.
 
gavinstubbs09 said:
My second day is complete. Outside of the iOS screensaver and working on the theme pack I didn't really use the G5 much today (I was away from the house for a good portion of my day!).

https://powerpccentre.wordpress.com/2017/01/02/ppcc-2017-day-2/
Click to expand...

A huge thanks for that tip on Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PC's.

I've been using VM hosts in network labs quite a lot , tried all kind of Lite, SuperLite,nLite variations but
none have such a small footprint memory wise or diskspace wise.

Runs well enough to test my Juniper VPN for which I needed a Windows Client to install Pulse Secure.
 
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MagicBoy said:
Only real annoyance I encountered was being able to get photos off my iPhone. So I went back to using an period correct Nikon Coolpix and a CompactFlash to PCMCIA adaptor with the TiBook.
Click to expand...
I really recommend using iFiles (first version, 99c) and connect via AFP to the PPCs IP-address.
[doublepost=1483997920][/doublepost]
durika175 said:
1. I was using TFF and sometimes my network is slooooow (100kb/s down)
2. Windows Server 2012 R2 64 BIT
3. Same, i dont have experience with that..(iFiles)
10. I used a Microsoft Remote Desktop i think 1.0.3.. OS X 10.5.8 and my server have SERVER 2012 R2

Well take on mind that.. Im 16yrs old.. I met with PowerPC in 2015 so it´s been 2yr since i started to work on PPC machines.. I know that isnt directly related to PowerPC... But thats my experience and issues with "Leopard" system.. You can actually use it, but with some drawbacks/issues..
You know much more than me and you are better at PPC..
Click to expand...

About "iFiles" : it's a 99 cent challenge to prove it's value ;)
About "CorePlayer": I'm gonna sent you a download link for my Dropbox
About MS RDP-Client and WinServer2012: I'm gonna sent you a link for the latest Client too. It did work with my WinServer2008 but only, if you don't have additional Terminal-Client-Lincences installed, that means, it does only work with included 2 service-terminal users which do not require further certification-procedures.
Theres a workaround with VirtualPC7 and WinXP-SP3 or (as I've learned from Gavin) the slicker "Windows Fundamentals" (a kind of small size WinXP-SP2), but for that you have to upgrade the Remote-Desktop-Client to version 6.1
Have fun
[doublepost=1483998411][/doublepost]
RhianB said:
For my ho-hum needs everything worked fine.
View attachment 682704
Click to expand...
:)
 
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durika175 said:
2. Windows Server 2012 R2 64 BIT

10. I used a Microsoft Remote Desktop i think 1.0.3.. OS X 10.5.8 and my server have SERVER 2012 R2
Click to expand...

2. Should work, the server will have to drop back to SMB 1.0 though. I've successfully connected to a share on a 2012 R2 server from my G5 running OS X 10.5.8.

10. I can't get either RDCC 1.0.3 or 2.0 to connect to Server 2012 R2. IIRC it's a security thing on the Windows Server end as the latest Intel version from the MAS works just fine.
[doublepost=1484003600][/doublepost]
durika175 said:
8. L3 cache is slower than L2 cache.. And L2 cache i think its smaller than iBook have..
Click to expand...

The cache bus is wider on the 745x. L3 is slower the the full speed backside L2 cache, but it's still far quicker than going to main memory. Compare the benchmark scores of 2nd and 3rd Gen 667Mhz TiBooks and the later one with the L3 cache is about 15% quicker for the same clock speed.
 
pochopsp said:
As regards PPC media Center just go to PPC Luddite and download the 6.0 version. It will install Perian and Python, which are needed for it to work. It is very simple to do.
Click to expand...

I have the PPC Media Center program in my Applications folder, and I have ran it, but I do not see how to use it. Is it an app or something in the browser?

durika175 said:
Well take on mind that.. Im 16yrs old.. I met with PowerPC in 2015 so it´s been 2yr since i started to work on PPC machines.. I know that isnt directly related to PowerPC... But thats my experience and issues with "Leopard" system.. You can actually use it, but with some drawbacks/issues..
You know much more than me and you are better at PPC..
Click to expand...

You would be surprised how many of our members are young in the PPC forum. I joined back in 2013 when I was 15, and many of the members now have been here for a few years but are mainly under 20. There are obviously quite a few over that age though. :)

Sounds like there are quite a few bugs to squash if your network is dropping to 100 Kbps. Is that your network speed or Internet speed that drops that low?
 
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