Indie No Show at iTMS Europe?

[pgwalsh]

The more indies the better.

I love indie music. Most of what I buy is indie music... My biggest issue is that most of the music I buy is fron the UK and it's hard to come by on CD let alone iTunes. However, I have started to see some stuff, but not much.

I'd like independent artists and labels from the UK have quicker access to US music fans through iTunes. I'm tired of waiting 3 to 6 months later to get the same realeases. I can order directly from the UK, but that really adds up after a while..

iTunes could eliminate this time gap and give us access to more of the music we love.

On another not I think they shoul have a low bit rate version of the songs so we can listen to an entire track before we purchase or something. Sometimes 30 seconds doesn't give you enough to know what's going on on a 9 minute or 52 minute track..

Ok... that's enough complaining by me, but those are my limitations from buying stickly from ITMS.

 

[Bob21]

Hmm, slightly disappointing, although they may be added later as a few have already stated.

All is not lost, as long as they've managed to sign The Wurzels

 

[greg75]

It only says that 6 Degrees didn't accept the terms of the Europe deal. That doesn't necessarily mean the the offered terms were unfair, only that the label(s) wanted more.

Since it's the same label I consider it more likely that it's Apple which is being unreasonable and not the labels.

 

[DGFan]

Oh, ****! Apple might lose tons of cred by leaving out the indies. I keep wondering about those "unacceptable terms"...?

Keep in mind that term was used by the indies. We really have no idea how fair of an offer was made by Apple.

 

[DGFan]

Since it's the same label I consider it more likely that it's Apple which is being unreasonable and not the labels.

Not necessarily. If Apple were offering a worse deal than in the US the "sources" (aka Indie Spokesperson) could've just come out and said that Apple seemed to be trying to cut a better deal for itself in Europe than it got in the US. But all we have are these vague statements. So here we are, with no knowledge of how the music industry works in any of the countries involved, trying to sort it all out. I don't THINK so!

 

[g4cubed]

Not necessarily. If Apple were offering a worse deal than in the US the "sources" (aka Indie Spokesperson) could've just come out and said that Apple seemed to be trying to cut a better deal for itself in Europe than it got in the US.

Absolutely right!!! You know they would have been singing to high heaven about it. Sorry about the pun

 

[Stella]

What a very stereotypical and broad statement. In other words bollocks!!

By your logic, sales of iPods must have also been poor in the UK... which they most cirtinately have not!

Leave it to the Brits to resist
anything associated with Apple
and music (Beatles anyone?)

 

[greg75]

Not necessarily. If Apple were offering a worse deal than in the US the "sources" (aka Indie Spokesperson) could've just come out and said that Apple seemed to be trying to cut a better deal for itself in Europe than it got in the US. But all we have are these vague statements.

Six Degrees accepted the terms in the US. They did not in Europe, with sources saying "terms on offer from Apple were unacceptable to the company". Since it's the same company, I consider it most likely that the reason is that the terms were unfair. If you have any other theories that don't break down when one takes into account that it's the same company, please do present them.

The statement itself is indeed vague, but when coupled with the fact that it's the same company is certainly indicates something to me.

I suppose the question is: Who's more likely to be greedy in this situation?

 

[legion]

This story is only significant within the context...

Have the other online music stores (i.e. Napster) managed to get these independent labels on their sites?

If it's no, then Apple is going to be great competition.

If it's yes, then Apple will be fighting an uphill battle.

Napster has gotten indies to sign on. So from your statment, it would fall in the latter category.

 

[tagy]

Since it's the same company, I consider it most likely that the reason is that the terms were unfair. If you have any other theories that don't break down when one takes into account that it's the same company, please do present them.

If a record company currently makes more profit on the sale of a CD in the UK compared to the US, then they may have been expecting to make more form a sale on UK iTunes than on US iTunes. So the same terms and conditions from apple might be unacceptable to the same company

 

[greg75]

If a record company currently makes more profit on the sale of a CD in the UK compared to the US, then they may have been expecting to make more form a sale on UK iTunes than on US iTunes. So the same terms and conditions from apple might be unacceptable to the same company

That is plausible, but I have yet to see any documentation to back up the oft-repated claim that UK labels are making more profit on each unit than their US counterparts.

 

[iLilana]

launch please

All they have to do is launch it... everything else will fall into place.

 

[iLilana]

label's best interests refering to canadian label doddling

It would be the labels' best interest to just start getting ALL their ducks in a row. The whole industry is changing. There are things that artists just don't need anymore. Labels are one of them. Labels have too much control still and are backing the whole RIAA debacle. We don't need the RIAA. Heck they are even going after digital radio as filesharing networks. Digital radio stations that already pay riaa fees. Remember we all used to be able to record a song from the radio? The RIAA created this mess. They made it bigger. They lied about music financial losses through false math.(basing the losses on all the files being shared and not realizing that people probably wouldn't have bought it anyway because of cost or availability restrictions. or the music could have been crap.) You go to a music store and you are generally allowed to listen to whatever you want to find out if you like it first. You can't however do this at home. I know peaple that had more music recorded on cassettes from friends than I or many of the people I know have on their computers.

There are other interest groups that are more tuned to the artists needs. Future of Music website http://www.futureofmusic.org/[url/]... going to be the only thing to stop them now.

 

[Abstract]

I love indie music. Most of what I buy is indie music... My biggest issue is that most of the music I buy is fron the UK and it's hard to come by on CD let alone iTunes. However, I have started to see some stuff, but not much.

I'd like independent artists and labels from the UK have quicker access to US music fans through iTunes. I'm tired of waiting 3 to 6 months later to get the same realeases. I can order directly from the UK, but that really adds up after a while..

Mama knows, chil'. My favourite bands are all Britons. The problem is that this won't be the same store as in America, and you won't have access to iTMS Europe, which means that your favourite indie Brit bands won't be more accessible in the US once iTMS Europe is launched. I wish there was a way that I could tap the iTMS Europe store separately from the iTMS US store. This is hypothetical in my case, since I'm a Canadian living in Australia for the year. Why wouldn't a European label not want to sell to me if I'm willing to pay their prices/tax/etc, right?

If a record company currently makes more profit on the sale of a CD in the UK compared to the US, then they may have been expecting to make more form a sale on UK iTunes than on US iTunes. So the same terms and conditions from apple might be unacceptable to the same company

They price things based on the economy of the country. If Apple is walking in and telling European labels that they're going to make the same profit margins as in the US, then maybe that's the problem. Albums cost more in many European countries than they do in the US, plain and simple.

And since pricing in Canada is so much better in Canada than in the US ($15.99 CAD vs $13 USD), Apple will also need to create prices that aren't equal to the US song price ($0.99) multiplied by the currency conversion rate (x 1.4). They couldn't sell each song individually at $1.40 CDN. Pricing just doesn't work like that. I could go to Futureshop and buy the new Beastie Boys album for $11.99 CDN. These negotiations really can't be easy for Apple, although other companies seem to have done it.

 

[nagromme]

What others are charging

For reference tomorrow, some prices from other European services--which are already charging more than we pay Apple in the US:

Microsoft/OD2 singles:
.99 euros
.75 pounds
.99 pounds
1.19 pounds

MS/OD2 albums:
7.99 pounds +
12.49 euros +

Napster singles:
1.09 pounds (.88 pounds if you pay for subscription)
Napster albums:
9.95 pounds

And in response to Napster, a temporary special deal from OD2:
Pay 20 pounds and get 40 pounds of music-buying. A slightly-awkward half-off deal for bulk buying, essentially. (I assume this deal is still going on?)

Napster in Canada:
Singles:
CDN$1.19 +
Albums:
CDN$9.95 +

PureTracks in Canada: CDN.99 for singles, CDN$10 for albums.

People actually IN Europe/Canada may be able to report on this better than I I'm surprised how hard it is to find clear and detailed reporting on anything but iTunes. (But it's easy to find Paul Thurott claiming that the iPod is a failure (!) in the UK market, and therefore iTunes will be too )

Now we'll see just where iTMS falls! (And I'd like to note that Apple will likely want consistent pricing, not pricing that fluctuates daily with exchange rates. That may mean that some weeks, iTunes is a better deal than others.)

By the way, remember that lots of albums on iTunes are LESS than $9.99.

Sources:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/3148327.stm
http://news.linkspider.co.uk/pages/186/97.html
http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=technologyNews&storyID=5197959&section=news
http://slashdot.org/articles/04/05/26/2123211.shtml?tid=126&tid=141&tid=187&tid=188&tid=95
http://www.cablecastermagazine.com/article.asp?id=30516&issue=05132004

 

[Trowaman]

All right, the store has been updated for the week (free song of the week and all) and I'm seeing the words worldwide premiere or worldwide exclusive in many places. I'm in Texas, but Europe, Canada, do you see this wonderous light making shapes, words, and pictures on your computer screens as well?

 

[LethalWolfe]

Six Degrees accepted the terms in the US. They did not in Europe, with sources saying "terms on offer from Apple were unacceptable to the company". Since it's the same company, I consider it most likely that the reason is that the terms were unfair. If you have any other theories that don't break down when one takes into account that it's the same company, please do present them.

The statement itself is indeed vague, but when coupled with the fact that it's the same company is certainly indicates something to me.

I suppose the question is: Who's more likely to be greedy in this situation?

Going by the info we have there is no way to tell why the deal went bad. Maybe Apple offered less? Maybe Six Degrees didn't like their US deal and thought they could get a better one in the UK, but Apple only offered the same deal. Who knows. Not anyone here.


Lethal

 

[iLilana]

For reference tomorrow,

Napster in Canada:
Singles:
CDN$1.19 +
CDN$9.95 +

PureTracks in Canada: CDN.99 for singles, CDN$10 for albums.

napster/puretracks/ both windows only accessability
mac users out of luck.

 

[caveman_uk]

(But it's easy to find Paul Thurott claiming that the iPod is a failure (!) in the UK market, and therefore iTunes will be too )

Huh?????????????

Admittedly London isn't the whole of the UK but a LOT of people have ipods. IIRC we're one of the biggest markets (2nd or third) and they'd have sold a lot more if Apple had actually imported more over Christmas.

Paul Thurott talks out of his a**.

 

[displaced]

Huh?????????????

Admittedly London isn't the whole of the UK but a LOT of people have ipods. IIRC we're one of the biggest markets (2nd or third) and they'd have sold a lot more if Apple had actually imported more over Christmas.

Paul Thurott talks out of his a**.

Absolutely. They were all over the media around Christmas -- the hottest gift of the year; everyone wanted one, and a helluva lot got them. For a while (and maybe still...) it seemed that the media had almost adopted 'iPod' as the de facto name for MP3 players, just like 'walkman'. It's still about the only player that doesn't need explanation about what it is. Competitions say 'Win an iPod!' -- but any promotions for other players always read something like 'the new Zen MP3 Player'. I know it sounds petty, but that sort of difference is what sets the iPod above others in the minds of the masses.

They're everywhere. And every single one of them (barring the older models) came with iTunes.

(on a side-note... I read somewhere that Apple are now in 2nd place for overall installed media player userbase -- 30%-ish, and only a few % behind Windows Media Player. All told, I don't think that's too shabby! I'm starting to think that even in the Windows world, if you offer an attractive enough service, people will eventually use it, instead of (or in conjunction with) whatever stuff MS deem fit to foist upon the hapless user.

 

[nagromme]

Yes, Apple had a HUGE Christmas season for iPods in the UK:

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2004/01/14/ipoduk/index.php

Apple sold 125,000 of them in the UK in three months.

Paul Thurott has NO interest in reality, only in promoting Microsoft.

 

[Dunepilot]

Tube journeys

Huh?????????????

Admittedly London isn't the whole of the UK but a LOT of people have ipods. IIRC we're one of the biggest markets (2nd or third) and they'd have sold a lot more if Apple had actually imported more over Christmas.

Paul Thurott talks out of his a**.

Yeah, maybe it's because I'm a mac watcher that I'm constantly spotting iPods, but there seems to be at least one in practically every carriage when I'm commuting on the tube. I like to have mine in my lap, in its ice-coloured iSkin so that everyone can admire it and be goaded into buying one themselves.

 

[Dunepilot]

(on a side-note... I read somewhere that Apple are now in 2nd place for overall installed media player userbase -- 30%-ish, and only a few % behind Windows Media Player. All told, I don't think that's too shabby! I'm starting to think that even in the Windows world, if you offer an attractive enough service, people will eventually use it, instead of (or in conjunction with) whatever stuff MS deem fit to foist upon the hapless user.

Sorry for double-post. Does that refer to Quicktime? Or to iTunes (which would obviously include Quicktime).

 

[bux]

Offtopic

As the title says this is abit offtopic, but anyway.
First I really would like ITMS in Europe... but something that they really need is more good->great music (hard rock and metal) to offer us. My favorite music isn't even available at ITMS. Sure they have 2.5 Manowar albums but I mean... we need more.

 

[niar]

please please please please please please please please!!!!

my SHORT Indie want list:

Far East
Asylum Records
Ubiquity
Papa Records
Polydor
Compost
Harmless
Acetate
Far Out Recordings
Xtreme Records
Laws Of Motion
Spectrum Works
Dope Wax
Hidden Beach
Warp
Champion Music
Regal
Mantis
Source
Clean Up
Talkin Loud
Second Skin
K7!
Ekto
Prolifica
Distance Records
Nuphonic
D.A.T.
Hospital
Output
Douglas
F Comm
Rephlex
Shack Records
Estereo
Fat Cat
Ascension
Mo Wax
Leaf
Soul Jazz
Rawkus
Maverick
Disorient
Chilli Funk
Laws Of Motion


And of course, ALL THE W H I T E LABELS IN THE WORLD - PLEASE!!!!!!