Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I saw MG Siegler trying this explanation - it's the perfect 20/20 excuse. If Apple already knew that they were ditching Google Maps a couple of years ago, then why not start those efforts then? They could have had a beta program running alongside Siri for more than a year...

Apple has no experience in crowd-sourcing and it seems they still haven't quite got it yet. By dropping this thing on their users they alienated a good deal of the users that care and were the ones likely to provide a massive amount of updates. If you can't trust the product then why bother? Ping has shown that Apple services aren't immune to slow death if the alternatives are better, Apple should at least have made tools for editing and maybe nursed their user-base a little better.

It's not just ripping off a band aid if Maps aren't showing any progress - users will just move on and then where's your user input then? I think you (and MG Siegler) aren't really getting how serious this can turn out to be for Apple.

I guess my attraction to the iPhone goes a lot deeper than a single (albeit important) app. I also think that Apple figures that it isn't going to alienate enough users to make it not worth getting rid of Google.

I visited a factory in China that makes like 70% of the worlds microwaves. The workers all did tedious, single step actions (like putting in the same screw over and over). We asked them why they didn't do job rotation or job enrichment (adding to the number of tasks to reduce the tedium) and they said "it takes four hours to train a new employee and we have a line of people a mile long coming from the fields, ready to take any spot that opens up. Someday we will do those things, but we just don't need to."

Apple, is not going to alienate enough users to make it not worth dumping Google. And apparently there are plenty to take their place if they do go. Now that's not the spin Apple would put on it, but its the truth. Yes, if Apple can't make the Map app good eventually, this will be a disaster, but I think they will despite, any mistakes in the past. And Ping is a bad comparison. It was just a dumb idea. Maps is a great idea, but just has to be implemented well...eventually.
 
You have surprisingly good sources. Having only read a few dozen articles on this, I wasn't able to turn up any which disclosed the terms Google was asking for turn-by-turn navigation.

URL?

As for what data Google wanted from Apple? Users location!. They wanted to stick their lattitude app inside maps to figure out where the users where when they made the search....

I hate to admit, but I Googled the term "What Google wanted out of Apple"


http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/apple-google-maps-parted-ways-over-features-voice-control

For people wary of hyperlinks, here is the article,

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Exploring that more deeply, AllThingsD's sources paint a picture where the goals and priorities of both Apple and Google were directly in conflict.

1.) Apple powered its old iOS Maps app with Google data. Apple controlled the front end, including the branding, while Google controlled the data.

2.) Apple wanted to add voice-controlled turn-by-turn directions to its Maps app, but it needed Google's OK and data to do so. Google had spent years building up the databases that made this possible, and the company was keen on keeping voice-controlled turn-by-turn directions as a flagship feature of Android.

An unnamed source said, “There were a number of issues inflaming negotiations, but voice navigation was the biggest. Ultimately, it was a deal-breaker.”

3.) Much of that mobile user data—perhaps most of that data—had come from iOS users. iOS users represented a much larger percentage of Google's mobile mapping services user base than Apple's smartphone market share.

[Update: I received a note from a knowledgable source taking me to task for writing that mobile user data contributed to Google Maps. That source was correct, and I have edited the above point to reference mobile user data, which had been my intent.- Bryan]

4.) As John Paczkowski wrote, "[Apple] was now in a position where an arch-rival was calling the shots on functionality important to the iOS maps feature set."

5.) Google wanted branding inside of the Apple Maps app, which Apple declined. Google also wanted more say on which features were offered in the Maps app, which was also declined. Google wanted to add in Google Latitude specifically. Guess what? Apple declined to allow it.

With this backdrop, it's easy to understand that the two companies were effectively at an impasse. Apple wanted things Google wasn't willing to offer, while Google wanted things that Apple wasn't willing to offer. The two companies are bitter rivals in the smartphone market, and with mobile mapping such an important aspect of the smartphone experience, it was only a matter of when, not if, Apple and Google would find themselves at loggerheads.

As long as Google refused to allow voice-controlled turn-by-turn directions, iOS would be at a competitive disadvantage to Android, even though iOS customers were doing the heavy lifting in building up Google's mapping data.

As long as Apple refused to allow Google a say in what features got added to iOS Maps, it wasn't getting everything out of those iOS users that it could. iOS participation in Google Latitude, for example, would be a major boost in the popularity of that Google service. The value of branding inside iOS Maps is also enormous, if hard to quantify.

In the end, there is simply too much value in mobile maps for Apple to allow another company final say in what it can do, or for Google to allow its arch-rival total access to what it has spent so much to build without paying Google's price for that access.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
No,really. All the algorithms in the world is useless if it doesn't have data to operate on.

That's why Tim Cook said I believe that "Keep using it, it will get better"...

Google maps is like a finely aged wine.. all these years of searches by users have their algorithm's spinning and figuring out patterns on what users are looking for..

If you don't use it, you will lose it... Choice is yours.

Well, time hasn't done the trick in the app store yet...
 
The Mac Pro line is being discontinued. The iMac will not be updated with the regularity it once was. OSX will get fewer updates over time.

Apple doesn't make much money off of the Mac, and they are putting fewer resources into it.

I feel that strange considering the fact that there are more people buying Mac's and its market share is growing fast...

Mac Pro might be the video/audio/music professionals machine and not a layman's computer.. but the iMac has to go stale?
Unbelieavable.. and yet there is a warm fuzzy feeling inside me that I am fine as I just bought an iMac..:)
 
Steve hated and sued everybody who competed with him. He severely suffered from the delusion that everybody was stealing his ideas while at the same time he said that he himself and his own team "have always been shameless about stealing".

That's the kind of paranoid behavior that usually unfaithful partners show - because they cheat on their spouses, of course, the spouses must be unfaithful, too.

He was a great sales person with demonstrated taste and an eye for design, but he was also just a fellow human being who very often made irrational, erratic choices that on mid to long term could only hurt himself and his company.

No, like or hate Steve Job's he needs to be left out of this. He passed away one year ago, gave his ALL to Apple and no one can make judgement on the man over why he did or didn't like something or someone from reading a book or hearing rumors. It's not fair and it's ignorant.

To finish your misleading quote, Steve Job's said he "was shameless about stealing idea's". Everyone does, that's true, but be clear, stealing idea's is different from copying tangible products or services. An "idea" has no value unless someone has the foresight to turn it into a product. Steve Jobs did that - repeatedly.

Steve had lot's things to be pissed off about with Google, and Samsung and all the copy-cats who wait and wonder to see what Apple will do next and then race to follow and catch up. If it happened to you, you'd be pissed off too.

Back to Maps ... it SUCKS Apple. They need to backtrack, go crawling to Google and get the old Maps app back and flip this circus of Apple Maps into beta where it should be. That's the only way to fix the problem fast, and no doubt this won't ever happen, unfortunately.
 
Well, time hasn't done the trick in the app store yet...

So your gripe is that it doesn't prompt you with suggestions as you type your searches?

Its not a big deal, every business these days implements that feature.

Maybe its for aesthetic reasons? I don't know..

----------

No, like or hate Steve Job's he needs to be left out of this. He passed away one year ago, gave his ALL to Apple and no one can make judgement on the man over why he did or didn't like something or someone from reading a book or hearing rumors. It's not fair and it's ignorant.

To finish your misleading quote, Steve Job's said he "was shameless about stealing idea's". Everyone does, that's true, but be clear, stealing idea's is different from copying tangible products or services. An "idea" has no value unless someone has the foresight to turn it into a product. Steve Jobs did that - repeatedly.

Steve had lot's things to be pissed off about with Google, and Samsung and all the copy-cats who wait and wonder to see what Apple will do next and then race to follow and catch up. If it happened to you, you'd be pissed off too.

Back to Maps ... it SUCKS Apple. They need to backtrack, go crawling to Google and get the old Maps app back and flip this circus of Apple Maps into beta where it should be. That's the only way to fix the problem fast, and no doubt this won't ever happen, unfortunately.

I don't thing that's called "fixing the problem". It's called succumbing to pressure and submitting yourself willingly to be exploited by the situation.
 
So your gripe is that it doesn't prompt you with suggestions as you type your searches?

Its not a big deal, every business these days implements that feature.

Maybe its for aesthetic reasons? I don't know..

----------



I don't thing that's called "fixing the problem". It's called succumbing to pressure and submitting yourself willingly to be exploited by the situation.

No, that is not my gripe. My gripe is that on google maps, if I typed japanese, I got tens of results showing me sushi restaurants, wagamamas, and every possible result I would need. Now, the same search gives me one result, but if I search for the japanese restaurants by name, they are on apple's database.

The suggestions were not just a "suggestions as you type". You actually got a little pop up asking you "Do you mean XYZ?" so the search engine was smart enough to guess what you were probably looking for...
 
So your gripe is that it doesn't prompt you with suggestions as you type your searches?

Its not a big deal, every business these days implements that feature.

Maybe its for aesthetic reasons? I don't know..

----------



I don't thing that's called "fixing the problem". It's called succumbing to pressure and submitting yourself willingly to be exploited by the situation.

No, it's called "doing what's best for the end user" ... "pleasing the customer" ... admitting a huge mistake".

Apple can or could have continued to use Google Apps until their their Maps app was a finished product for ALL iPhone owners around the world.

I'd like to think there's a possible alternative solution to, what I think is going to take Apple a very long time to fix on their own. Unfortunately a quick, alternative solution is highly unlikely, so the end user loses.
 
No, that is not my gripe. My gripe is that on google maps, if I typed japanese, I got tens of results showing me sushi restaurants, wagamamas, and every possible result I would need. Now, the same search gives me one result, but if I search for the japanese restaurants by name, they are on apple's database.

The suggestions were not just a "suggestions as you type". You actually got a little pop up asking you "Do you mean XYZ?" so the search engine was smart enough to guess what you were probably looking for...

Oh okay... well this is new product. New for Apple as well. I think they are also at a crucial point where their philosophy of do it all is being challenged. We are in a connected world of multitude of services offered by different providers. So doing it all will become impossible as time goes. We have to buy/lease/outsource services from other vendors and the final quality of the product is only as good as the sum of the service provided by others.

For Google, Maps was/is their bread and butter. For Apple, it wasn't. Not until recently.

Apple after creating the smartphone market is coming to grips with the fact that it has opened a pandora's box in terms of how many features outsourced by other providers, becomes a necessity to keep the smartphone useful.

So it's on the path to develop those core services itself ... No easy task. So I am going to give it the benefit of doubt on how serious it is with this strategy.

Lets see how it maps out...
 
I for one have had no issue navigating from the Shire to Mordor using the new Apple maps. Too bad it wasn't really useful since I had no "One Ring" to dump into the fires of Mount Doom. (oh and they misplaced Sheilob's cave...).

But is Sauron's All-Seeing Eye correctly placed in Mountain View?

----------

but I do know Gruber wouldn't criticize Apple even if his life depended upon it

A nice story, but untrue. While Gruber is typically an Apple fan (as are most of us on this forum - hence our being here (don't mind the trolls)), he's criticized Apple plenty over the years. Maybe you should, you know, actually read some of his stuff sometime?
 
First, obviously the people running Apple are not idiots. They had to know there would be a backlash. Maybe they underestimated it, or overestimated the quality of the Map app, but this couldn't have been a surprise.

As Mike Dobson put it, they simply overestimated the quality of the Maps they had :

http://blog.telemapics.com/?p=399

If you agree to this logic, you understand why they chose the route they did. I would've come to the same conclusion they did if I thought my infrastructure and solution was a solid replacement for Google's, I would've released.

Put yourself in Apple's shoes. Let's assume the worst and say they knew that the Map app was bad (not been my experience) and that people would complain and there would be a media nightmare as you put it. What is going to happen? How many iPhones are not going to be bought because of this? How much will Apple's reputation actually be hurt? The answer is they still can't make enough phones to meet demand, and despite antenna-gate, scuff-gate or whatever, Apple eventually comes out just fine.

That's arrogant and not a position Tim Cook would use. Hence the letter of apology and the current media campaign to calm the issue (job postings, putting Gruber and AllThingsD.com on maximum spin control, leaking the bit about retail employees).

No, I'm rather thinking they didn't expect this backlash at all since they thought their maps were perfectly fine pre-WWDC due to internal, automated tests showing just that. But like Dobson puts it, in mapping/GIS, if you have expertise in the field, you understand why this isn't so. Apple lacks expertise in this field, and it's probably a big reason why the september 11th job postings are all for people with GIS experience.

If I am an executive at Apple, I have to think about where I am strategically. Previously, a major competitor has me over a barrel. I am relying on them for something that has become core functionality of my product. And they won't allow me to have features that are at parity with other smart phones without unacceptable concessions.

Except this has been shown false. First, the contract wasn't up, Apple still had some time left in which they could continue to use Google Maps as is. Then there's the fact Google did offer the features to Apple, with some conditions attached.

What should I do? Worry about a few tech bloggers and posters who won't be happy? Or set myself up for the future without Google having fingers in my pie?

Except now it's not just tech bloggers and posters, it's mainstream media. Mad magazine, Forbes, Wall Street Journal, heck my morning political/local news radio show jokes about it non-stop since last week and they are the farthest from a tech show I can find.

I know that you think there was some gradual way this could have happened, but the reality is that Apple needed to screw Google (no warning) and quickly get this product out and get people making it better. This media nightmare will disappear and Apple will be fine, even if a few people decide to stop buying their products.

It's not just me that thinks it (it's even been proposed in 2 Forbes pieces I read) and frankly, I'm sure Scott Forstall and Tim Cook realise this themselves and wish they had chosen this route. The simple fact is : They didn't know their maps were as bad as they were.

Don't you wonder why Google doesn't have a replacement yet for the iPhone? It is because Apple didn't want them to have it and pulled the rug when they weren't expecting it. They don't want iPhone users helping Google improve their maps.

As an iPhone user, I also use a Mac. My Mac doesn't have Apple Maps. Apple doesn't care about iPhone users or Mac users helping Google Maps.

And frankly, that's just backyard politics. I don't care about that, nor do I give Apple a free ride because they "stuck it" to Google. Quite the contrary. They hurt my user experience and they broke their "It Just Works!" mantra. If truely they did this for a corporate vendetta, then that makes it even worse than a simple mistake over automated Q&A tests.

Vindication is not a proper way to conduct business.
 
I switched the search on my iPad to Bing a few months ago. Actually, I have started a personal migration of web search and email from Google to Microsoft. I signed up for a couple of those new outlook.com email addresses. I will probably turn my gmail account into my spam account within the next few months.
 
Vindication is not a proper way to conduct business.

There is no doubt that the users have to put up with a not so well baked product. But, why consider it as a vindication? We can also see it as Apple trying to have its own mapping service. No?

More than maps, I am miffed about the missing YouTube app(iPad). Now my Apple TV has become a paper weight as I was using "AirPlay" 99% of the time for YouTube.

Well Apple isn't getting into that business... Looking forward to the new YouTube app from Google. :)
 
Maps is such a fail! If Steve were alive, he would never have..... oh, right.
;)

----------

There is no doubt that the users have to put up with a not so well baked product. But, why consider it as a vindication? We can also see it as Apple trying to have its own mapping service. No?

More than maps, I am miffed about the missing YouTube app(iPad). Now my Apple TV has become a paper weight as I was using "AirPlay" 99% of the time for YouTube.

Well Apple isn't getting into that business... Looking forward to the new YouTube app from Google. :)

You do realize that all that's iPhone-ish about the current Google YouTube app is the interface, right? That the videos AirPlay just fine?
 
Maps is such a fail! If Steve were alive, he would never have..... oh, right.
;)

----------



You do realize that all that's iPhone-ish about the current Google YouTube app is the interface, right? That the videos AirPlay just fine?

LOL ! I never went to the youtube website and tried it from my iPad.

Now Google released an app for the PS3 which I have and I can control the Youtube with my iPhone or iPad...Its much more responsive than Airplay... very less time to buffer etc..

But will give it a try this eve...
 
Last edited:
Option 1 prevents you from having features which would put you on par with the competition, and cannot be fixed without building your own back-end.

I don't disagree for a second that Apple had no choice but to implement their own version. The things about it that I find interesting personally are:

  1. Despite Google Maps having been the virtually undisputed go to provider of digital maps for 7 years or so, people seemed to belive that Apple's version would be somehow magical from the word go, just because it was from Apple.
    This despite the unparalleled experience Google had with user feedback, which as you say, is one of the great advantages of a digital map. There was an interesting article on the BBC website a week or two before the release of iOS6 with the head of Google Maps which gives some insight into the task ahead of Apple.

  2. The typical bravura with which Apple launched it "If we say our product is the best, most of our customers will simply accept and repeat the claim without qualification, because it's us."
    A bit like "The iPhone is (randomly) 5 years ahead of it's time" at launch, whilst not having any of the recent technological features of the last 2-3 years.
    It's quite funny in retrospect that the "killer apps" at launch were YouTube and Google Maps (without 3G).

I give it 4-6 months before they're pretty much on-par, though they'll both still have data issues.)

Given the billions of dollars and years of concerted effort (see that article), I'd love to see how you calculated that figure. Obviously Apple have already put huge sums and years into it, which rather proves the point of how long it might take to get it right, with all those businesses, personal locations and even historical tidbits.

I guess I'm lucky living in the UK to not be in such desperate need of turn by turn. I've got NavFree, free app, no data usage, just as good as TomTom with a similar interface but more up to date map (better feedback).
 
A nice story, but untrue. While Gruber is typically an Apple fan (as are most of us on this forum - hence our being here (don't mind the trolls)), he's criticized Apple plenty over the years. Maybe you should, you know, actually read some of his stuff sometime?

I've followed his blog for a couple of years - and I disagree. But I'm not going to turn it into a shouting match...
 
I have Google Earth on my phone, but have never liked that you can't pre-load certain areas.

I have iOS 6 maps and it loads much faster. The directions work. And I have always used Yahoo! search, although Bing isn't too bad either.

It works for me.
 
Since when did Steve care what customers thought?

Has this question been answered? The fact that Apple makes some of the most limiting products makes me think that the word 'choice' was never adapted into Apple's philosophy or didnt even make into Steve Jobs' vocabulary.
 
And what makes you think that Google is not already working on vector maps. By the time it takes Apple to make their maps even close to the level of accuracy of Google maps, Google could be delivering vector maps. Even if they started the conversion now, they would still beat Apple to the finishing line.

Android has had vector maps for years so I imagine if/when Google release an iOS app it will too.
 
Has this question been answered? The fact that Apple makes some of the most limiting products makes me think that the word 'choice' was never adapted into Apple's philosophy or didnt even make into Steve Jobs' vocabulary.
Choice is overrated. If people really cared about choice would one operating system be dominating the desktop market and would two hardware makers be dominating the mobile handset space?
 
Just remove "Mac" from the site name already and get it over with. The domain, iOSrumors can be had for $39.95. Better grab it! :eek:

They already have AppleRumors.com. It redirects here.

------------------------------------------------

Bing search? Ew, gross. Google has always been the best search engine and still is.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.