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Choice is overrated. If people really cared about choice would one operating system be dominating the desktop market and would two hardware makers be dominating the mobile handset space?

Talking about choice, I would have loved to have been a fly in the wall when the Google executives were banging their heads on what to do after Apple released its map.

Choice #1 : Work on releasing a new app ASAP, so we can corner the maps traffic from iOS users which will leave Apple maps in the dust. But, it will make the new iPhone or future iPhones still relevant and a major force and a consumer favorite... People might use our maps but will still rave about the iPhone.

Choice #2: Since Apple threw us out, let it be. Don't work on an app, let the iOS users suffer with an inferior maps app. After the users contract with their cellular company expires, they will all abandon their iPhones and adopt Android. We could destroy their whole platform with one single app.

I heard that Google is working on an app to release soon. I guess they went with choice #1... But was making that decision easy?
 
...

As long as Google refused to allow voice-controlled turn-by-turn directions, iOS would be at a competitive disadvantage to Android, even though iOS customers were doing the heavy lifting in building up Google's mapping data.

....

This is really poor form of Google. Being a software developer, I've always felt there was something "off" about the way they handle things, like user privacy. Call me naive, but I had never considered them to be cutthroat (in a bad way) in the corporate front, until now.

Apple did the right thing, here. They had to burn this bridge, so they can have more control over their own products. The transitioning pain will be over quickly, and it will be so worth it.
 
This is really poor form of Google. Being a software developer, I've always felt there was something "off" about the way they handle things, like user privacy. Call me naive, but I had never considered them to be cutthroat (in a bad way) in the corporate front, until now.

Apple did the right thing, here. They had to burn this bridge, so they can have more control over their own products. The transitioning pain will be over quickly, and it will be so worth it.

There are countless examples of where a company offers a product for a competitor's platform, but with some features limited (for obvious reasons). Apple is doing the same. Being angry on Google for not offering turn-by-turn navigation is silly.

And if Steve Jobs was angry about it, even more silly. Because he knows Apple is behaving the same if they get a chance.
 
Ditching Google Maps WAS the right decision. It makes no sense to rely on a competitor for a core feature of the phone, which maps are.

The problem was that the replacement was released too early, before it was ready. Of course there would always be some issues no matter when it was released. But they could have released Apple Maps as a downloadable app for a year to get lots of real-world feedback, then for iOS 7 just said "...and now in iOS 7, Apple Maps is built right into the OS."

Thankfully most companies do not use your logic for product development or we would have many vendors building in house services for everything. Like everything else it's a calculated business decision, not a blanket assessment like you are suggesting above.

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This is really poor form of Google. Being a software developer, I've always felt there was something "off" about the way they handle things, like user privacy. Call me naive, but I had never considered them to be cutthroat (in a bad way) in the corporate front, until now.

Apple did the right thing, here. They had to burn this bridge, so they can have more control over their own products. The transitioning pain will be over quickly, and it will be so worth it.

Are you serious, take a look at Apple's product line and please explain how they do not do the same, they are a notoriously cut throat company.
 
Apple search.com couldnt be worse than Ping-could it?:rolleyes:

No, but not nearly as painful as reading one of your posts either.

Anyway, back on topic, both Bing and Yahoo suck for search on my iPhone. So, no thanks unless they get major overhauls.
 
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From what I have read, the reason was Apple did not want to pay for the use of turn by turn not that Google would not let them have it. Apple could have paid for it for a year or so to get their mapping software in order and then switch.

Sounds like they would have been better off spending some of that hord of money they have. But they will need it when they are no longer creating "the next best thing" and their products are no different than everyone else's.

I do believe those sources have been unfounded. Nothing is the smoking gun either way. No one really knows the true reason Apple changed to its own mapping service. One can only speculate and perhaps make some educated guesses. Unless you hear the reasons from the top level execs themselves why they switched over, I wouldn't speculate so much about it. Just focus on what you have now in front of you and what you might possibly have in the future of IOS. If you feel that iOS is doomed and will die as a company, feel free to abandon it and switch over to another device that fits your needs.

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No, it's called "doing what's best for the end user" ... "pleasing the customer" ... admitting a huge mistake".

Apple can or could have continued to use Google Apps until their their Maps app was a finished product for ALL iPhone owners around the world.

I'd like to think there's a possible alternative solution to, what I think is going to take Apple a very long time to fix on their own. Unfortunately a quick, alternative solution is highly unlikely, so the end user loses.

And when would the Apple maps be finished? It's just easy to criticize a company. Don't get me wrong I do it too. But you have the choice to switch to another platform. I don't see how this is a big issue. If iOS 6 is so horrendous and Apple is providing crap customer service by offering an incomplete mapping product, then you have the power to vote with your wallet and make the appropriate switches to fit your needs

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So then why, seemingly against all odds, did apple replace an app with HIGHLY accurate data.. with an app that is not even close to being as accurate?

It seems that Apple Apologists are missing the point... EVERYONE understands how how it is to map the PLANET... the question is WHY did apple think it was above the effort that Goggle already put in on Maps? Are they going to create their own search engine too? Create their own displays and memory for their iDevices? I mean where does this "keep it in house" stop??

They should of just recognized the level of effort it takes and kept Google Maps and negotiate for vector and turn by turn...

Yes you want what's best for you as a user but you fail to recognize that a companies goal isn't charity. It is to make income. Cold hard cash. Whatever you may have believed about Apple,Inc. you need to understand they are a business and will make business decisions. It may not be popular but they will do it I'd they think it will make them money. You as a consumer have the choice to buy what fits your needs. As long as the options are legal within your country, feel free to pick which ever device fits your needs.
 
Because Apple is Apple. They are the biggest company in tech right now so everything they did/do wrong will be taken out of proportion.

What absolute rubbish. Apple choose to make ridiculous claims like "the most beautiful, powerful mapping service ever" when marketing their products and in this case it has backfired massively for them.

The fail of Apple Maps is proportional to the size of their claims about how great it is, not how big Apple is.
 
As a consumer, I want to use google's services... I want to use gmail, google maps and youtube. They just work, and they also work in pretty much every device you can think of. I don't want to resort to Bing, iCloud, Apple maps or whatever they think that can replace youtube.
 
Choice is overrated. If people really cared about choice would one operating system be dominating the desktop market

The fact that that Desktop operating system got to dominate the market through abusive practices and vendor lock-in, lack of interoperability and the company behind it got condemned not once but twice over it should tell you something about how much choice buyers got for that decision.

Just look at all other markets around you. Cars, appliances, furniture, clothing... choice abounds and consumers don't all choose the same thing.
 
Talking about choice, I would have loved to have been a fly in the wall when the Google executives were banging their heads on what to do after Apple released its map.
From laugghter after seeing how bad the launch of the map app went?

Choice #1 : Work on releasing a new app ASAP, so we can corner the maps traffic from iOS users which will leave Apple maps in the dust. But, it will make the new iPhone or future iPhones still relevant and a major force and a consumer favorite... People might use our maps but will still rave about the iPhone.

Choice #2: Since Apple threw us out, let it be. Don't work on an app, let the iOS users suffer with an inferior maps app. After the users contract with their cellular company expires, they will all abandon their iPhones and adopt Android. We could destroy their whole platform with one single app.

I heard that Google is working on an app to release soon. I guess they went with choice #1... But was making that decision easy?
Yes, choice #2 is spitefull and will only hurt yourself, kinda like apple did with google .

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This is really poor form of Google. Being a software developer, I've always felt there was something "off" about the way they handle things, like user privacy. Call me naive, but I had never considered them to be cutthroat (in a bad way) in the corporate front, until now.

If its true, according to others, google offered it in 2009 but apple refused wanting the users to go to apps in the app store (around that time GPS apps were released)

As for privacy, as if you have any not using google maps .


Apple did the right thing, here. They had to burn this bridge, so they can have more control over their own products. The transitioning pain will be over quickly, and it will be so worth it.

Quickly? I doubt it. Outside of some area's apple maps is a real mess
 
I really dont think Apple can even think of replacing google as the search engine. Nothing is really up to the mark.
 
Except now it's not just tech bloggers and posters, it's mainstream media. Mad magazine, Forbes, Wall Street Journal, heck my morning political/local news radio show jokes about it non-stop since last week and they are the farthest from a tech show I can find.

Because we all know how factual and non-biased the mainstream media is....:rolleyes:
 
There are countless examples of where a company offers a product for a competitor's platform, but with some features limited (for obvious reasons). Apple is doing the same.

Can you give an example of Apple doing the same with their cross-platform applications? I'm not personally aware of any such instances, though my exposure to Apple software prior to my Mac transition was limited to Quicktime and iTunes.

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Are you serious, take a look at Apple's product line and please explain how they do not do the same, they are a notoriously cut throat company.

What part of Apple's product line consists of services they make available to other developers? What portion of those services do the limit to only themselves, as opposed to any developer who licenses and takes advantage of said services?

I'm not disputing that Apple is cut-throat. Like any successful business these days, they are. But if we're talking about providing a *paid* service, but withholding features from certain users of that service, I'd like to see some examples, rather than just unsupported claims.

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I really dont think Apple can even think of replacing google as the search engine. Nothing is really up to the mark.

True. Heck, the next best two competitors (Bing/Yahoo) are the *same* search engine. Google built/earned themselves a significant advantage in search.
 
As a consumer, I want to use google's services... I want to use gmail, google maps and youtube. They just work, and they also work in pretty much every device you can think of. I don't want to resort to Bing, iCloud, Apple maps or whatever they think that can replace youtube.

I hate Bing with a passion. I rather use yahoo if I must use a search engine other than google
 
As for what data Google wanted from Apple? Users location!. They wanted to stick their lattitude app inside maps to figure out where the users where when they made the search....

I hate to admit, but I Googled the term "What Google wanted out of Apple"


http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/apple-google-maps-parted-ways-over-features-voice-control

For people wary of hyperlinks, here is the article,

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Exploring that more deeply, AllThingsD's sources paint a picture where the goals and priorities of both Apple and Google were directly in conflict.

1.) Apple powered its old iOS Maps app with Google data. Apple controlled the front end, including the branding, while Google controlled the data.

2.) Apple wanted to add voice-controlled turn-by-turn directions to its Maps app, but it needed Google's OK and data to do so. Google had spent years building up the databases that made this possible, and the company was keen on keeping voice-controlled turn-by-turn directions as a flagship feature of Android.

An unnamed source said, “There were a number of issues inflaming negotiations, but voice navigation was the biggest. Ultimately, it was a deal-breaker.”

3.) Much of that mobile user data—perhaps most of that data—had come from iOS users. iOS users represented a much larger percentage of Google's mobile mapping services user base than Apple's smartphone market share.

[Update: I received a note from a knowledgable source taking me to task for writing that mobile user data contributed to Google Maps. That source was correct, and I have edited the above point to reference mobile user data, which had been my intent.- Bryan]

4.) As John Paczkowski wrote, "[Apple] was now in a position where an arch-rival was calling the shots on functionality important to the iOS maps feature set."

5.) Google wanted branding inside of the Apple Maps app, which Apple declined. Google also wanted more say on which features were offered in the Maps app, which was also declined. Google wanted to add in Google Latitude specifically. Guess what? Apple declined to allow it.

With this backdrop, it's easy to understand that the two companies were effectively at an impasse. Apple wanted things Google wasn't willing to offer, while Google wanted things that Apple wasn't willing to offer. The two companies are bitter rivals in the smartphone market, and with mobile mapping such an important aspect of the smartphone experience, it was only a matter of when, not if, Apple and Google would find themselves at loggerheads.

As long as Google refused to allow voice-controlled turn-by-turn directions, iOS would be at a competitive disadvantage to Android, even though iOS customers were doing the heavy lifting in building up Google's mapping data.

As long as Apple refused to allow Google a say in what features got added to iOS Maps, it wasn't getting everything out of those iOS users that it could. iOS participation in Google Latitude, for example, would be a major boost in the popularity of that Google service. The value of branding inside iOS Maps is also enormous, if hard to quantify.

In the end, there is simply too much value in mobile maps for Apple to allow another company final say in what it can do, or for Google to allow its arch-rival total access to what it has spent so much to build without paying Google's price for that access.

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That's a lot of stuff so forgive me if I overlooked something obvious, and I trust you'll point it out if I did.

But in my reading of that I don't see where Google was specifically asking for any more user location data than they would need to provide turn-by-turn services as the sole condition for providing the service.

Thanks in advance for your clarification.
 
There are countless examples of where a company offers a product for a competitor's platform, but with some features limited (for obvious reasons). Apple is doing the same. Being angry on Google for not offering turn-by-turn navigation is silly.

And if Steve Jobs was angry about it, even more silly. Because he knows Apple is behaving the same if they get a chance.

Just to add to that. Let's see all the features that apple doesn't allow to work on Android (which are even more important then turn by turn) push icloud email, calendar reminders and notes as well as itunes sycning. When I was testing an SG3 I couldn't get my mac to recognize it using through a usb connection. Of course google allows almost all of its tools to function properly on apple products and as far as I know have only left out the turn by turn feature on googlemaps. They even still build apps for ios that are free to the users. Something Apple will NEVER do for another platfrorm.

Jobs crying about google not giving the iphone turn by turn is a joke! Pot calling the kettle black.
 
That's a lot of stuff so forgive me if I overlooked something obvious, and I trust you'll point it out if I did.

But in my reading of that I don't see where Google was specifically asking for any more user location data than they would need to provide turn-by-turn services as the sole condition for providing the service.

Thanks in advance for your clarification.

Because originally the app was from Apple(developed in collaboration with Google) so the users location was going to Apple which in turn called Google Maps API to return the result. I am taking a wild guess here...

The data Google *probably* wanted was,

- Who is this user asking for directions?
- What's his registered residence on the device?
- How often does he use maps?
- What are the places he travels frequently?
- How often does he/she use navigation versus just looking up maps?
- How many times as he looked up places categorized by business/residence/hospital, using our maps?

and it goes on and on....

And all this data was held by Apple. It was just passing minimal information to Google to get the results.

Does this help your curiosity?



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Just to add to that. Let's see all the features that apple doesn't allow to work on Android (which are even more important then turn by turn) push icloud email, calendar reminders and notes as well as itunes sycning. When I was testing an SG3 I couldn't get my mac to recognize it using through a usb connection. Of course google allows almost all of its tools to function properly on apple products and as far as I know have only left out the turn by turn feature on googlemaps. They even still build apps for ios that are free to the users. Something Apple will NEVER do for another platfrorm.

Jobs crying about google not giving the iphone turn by turn is a joke! Pot calling the kettle black.

I can personally relate to Apple's tricks when it comes to providing functionality to other platforms,

1) Magic Mouse - The drivers for windows are half baked and doesn't offer the same functionality as in OS X, just basic stuff. Though, the scrolling issue might lie deeper in the OS rather than just the driver.

I then bought the Microsoft version of the same. Grandiose design and expectations but it suddenly stops working and you have to fire up the Microsoft Mouse Software to configure that mouse(so it will scroll and vibrate, etc..again) can be as intensive as playing Crysis on your machine. All 8 cores on my Core i7 PC working overtime just to load the mouse configuration software. All for that mouse? Unbelievable.

2) Bootcamp - Booting windows into my iMac makes the machine really really HOT. Something about how Apple doesn't supply the proper drivers/software for optimum fan control. Plus, Windows being a resource hog is not helping either.

So Apple isn't clean here either. Plus they always looked at Microsoft Windows like an illegitimate child anyway.
 
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iSearch would be absolutely terrific if done right. Pretty much similar to Google in respect of speed and indexing but without all the BS like Shopping, GMail, etc. A simple search engine: nothing less, nothing more. Heck, I'd use it.
 
Bing over Google? That may have been a deal breaker for me. I'v honestly given bing a shot, but the results are simply not as accurate as google in my experience.
 
jobs_white_iphone_4-150x147.jpg

^that guy died lol
 
So then why, seemingly against all odds, did apple replace an app with HIGHLY accurate data.. with an app that is not even close to being as accurate?

It seems that Apple Apologists are missing the point... EVERYONE understands how how it is to map the PLANET... the question is WHY did apple think it was above the effort that Goggle already put in on Maps? Are they going to create their own search engine too? Create their own displays and memory for their iDevices? I mean where does this "keep it in house" stop??

They should of just recognized the level of effort it takes and kept Google Maps and negotiate for vector and turn by turn...


If us users on this forum say that Apple has a tough road ahead of it to get catch up to Google in terms of mapping, then I'm pretty sure the head honchos at Apple thought of this. Those guys are paid a big chunk of change to think of these things.

You are asking where Apple will draw the line on "keep it in house" and gave examples like search, displays, and memory. Answer this for me. Is there any difference between Google search on iOS and Google search on Android? As far as I can tell, the same features for Google search on Android are there for Google search on iOS.

With Maps, that wasn't the case. Turn-by-turn and vector maps were not available on iOS, but those features were on Google Maps for Android. When Google demoed turn-by-turn about two years ago, they indicated that there were no plans to bring it to iOS at the time.

As an Apple user, I applaud Apple's refusal to do business with Google, especially when I know that I am a lower-priority user to Google. What we're seeing right now with Maps is unavoidable.

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Just to add to that. Let's see all the features that apple doesn't allow to work on Android (which are even more important then turn by turn) push icloud email, calendar reminders and notes as well as itunes sycning. When I was testing an SG3 I couldn't get my mac to recognize it using through a usb connection. Of course google allows almost all of its tools to function properly on apple products and as far as I know have only left out the turn by turn feature on googlemaps. They even still build apps for ios that are free to the users. Something Apple will NEVER do for another platfrorm.

Jobs crying about google not giving the iphone turn by turn is a joke! Pot calling the kettle black.

But you have a choice to not use Apple products. And Apple doesn't make any money off of you beyond what you pay to buy Apple products. Google, however, got tons of data off of iOS users which they could use to sell targeted advertising. Google wanted more and Apple finally told them enough was enough.
 
Because we all know how factual and non-biased the mainstream media is....:rolleyes:

You missed the point entirely. The argument was that the conversation was only happening on tech blogs and sites. KnightWRX states that it was also all over mainstream media.

Are you reading the thread and following along or just making random obtuse comments?

Don't move goalpost. The initial argument was that the issue hadn't reached Mainstream media. My point was that it has.

I don't think he moved the goalpost. I think he, like others, forget what they said or fail to follow a conversation correctly.
 
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