Insight Timer CEO Upset With Apple's Abrupt Enforcement of App Store Rules [Updated]

[wbeasley]

Why would it matter? Apple shouldn’t be taking a cut of anyone’s tips. It’s illegal in the United States for an employer to take a cut of their employee’s tips and this should be the case over the Internet too

The Internet was supposed to *free* us, not give us more rent-seeking middlemen

And? Why would that make a difference

Apple is not the employer so it can do whatever for providing the collection of tips.
It is now enforcing what has been there all along. It's not new.

If you look at the noise about alt payment systems, Apple, when forced in places to allow it, change 30% to 27% to exclude the bank fees. Make enough noise and they may do the same here. It become a technology fee...

For everyone outraged that donations to instructors are cut, perhaps look into donations for causes and see what percent ends up providing solutions. The CEO and permanent staff and offices and marketing and telecalls and email campaigns chew up 90% sometimes.

I once donated $20 to an Animals protection agency. They spent double that on postage trying to get me to give more.
Didnt help one single animal - apart from the human employees

Now we donate to people directly. Know where the money goes. If we see them doing good things and getting ahead with help, we give more. no overheads.

perhaps these instructors would be better off holding a sign with a Help Me Out link where they get paid all of it?

 

[djphat2000]

Some people don't even use traditional computers and laptops anymore. they live their lives on their phones and tablets. A lot of people don't even TALK on their smart"phones". Its just a pocket computer with anywhere internet connection.

It's just to say that a mobile phone isn't the same as a desktop computer. They can do many similar things. But, they are not a prefect 1:1 replacement for the other. I think people like to just put tech in categories they do not belong in. I'll give an example. Say you have a lipstick in red. Can you use it like a crayon and color in something? Sure. Is it a crayon now? No. Its lipstick. First and foremost, an iPhone is a Phone. And any Android "phone" is a phone first. It can compute many things similarly to any desktop or laptop. But, it's not either. Just because people use it in other ways than it was fully intended for. Doesn't make it those other things. Same as lipstick isn't a crayon, even though they both color.

Why should they be so restricted?

Because the devices themselves are the restriction. Unless you want to carry brick around in your pocket. Your phone will not perform as long as a desktop or laptop (CPU, GPU, Memory, Storage, Battery, heat/thermals). Most desktops to my knowledge don't carry a cellular modem. Some laptops do however. But, you can't fit a laptop or desktop in your pocket. Its physics.

And I'm sure you've heard it a million times, the people who worry about security, can just continue to use Apple App store.

Yes, and the rules Apple put in place to allow 3rd party stores is brilliant. They still have to vet it, and they still can charge a fee. 3rd party's still have skin in the game to keep things safe. I was very worried they would allow side loading without any real authority to prevent malice apps or downloads affecting not just the end user that willfully allowed. But potential any end user that had no intention of taking part. Leaving open vulnerabilities that would/could expose anyone even if they choose not to partake.

 

[eifelbube]

So what about music or movies?
Or live music being transmitted to an iPhone?

If you can consume it on the iPhone, it's digital content.

Is the original music performed a product of digital algorithms without human intervention? Is there sound coming out of consumers’ speakers or strings of 1s and 0s? Why would the method of delivery of services produced by humans make a difference when it comes to tipping in the first place? And what entitles Apple to withhold 30% of the tipp that i pay as the consumer when i already paid Apple for the app? The developer of the app makes money from it and gives 30% to Apple — the developer does not make money from the tipping.

 

[wbeasley]

Is the original music performed a product of digital algorithms without human intervention? Is there sound coming out of consumers’ speakers or strings of 1s and 0s? Why would the method of delivery of services produced by humans make a difference when it comes to tipping in the first place? And what entitles Apple to withhold 30% of the tipp that i pay as the consumer when i already paid Apple for the app? The developer of the app makes money from it and gives 30% to Apple — the developer does not make money from the tipping.

The app dev doesnt want the tip because employers can take tip percent.

They also know they can make the app more appealing to content producers by holding out a carrot of "we give you half the sub price BUT YOU CAN ALSO MAKE TIPS". This is to encourage them gear the videos to push for them. Subtle or not. Bit like YouTube Likes and Subscribes. Annoying messages at the start of any video channel.

Why is Apple entitled to it? It's their secure payment processing system with the banks. And sending payments to app dev and content provider. You can argue is it worth 30% or 15% or some other number but without the app in the store and the marketing of phones and dev work, the store wouldnt be the attractive proposition it is.

Majority of small app devs dont seem to have an issue with paying for all the tools and support and infrastructure the iOS environment provide.

There's a lot of YouTube content up for free (or ad supported). They dont really need an app for this type of video work. Create a channel and plead for money like many do. But i'd bet it wouldnt be as profitable as an app.

 

[HiVolt]

It's just to say that a mobile phone isn't the same as a desktop computer. They can do many similar things. But, they are not a prefect 1:1 replacement for the other. I think people like to just put tech in categories they do not belong in. I'll give an example. Say you have a lipstick in red. Can you use it like a crayon and color in something? Sure. Is it a crayon now? No. Its lipstick. First and foremost, an iPhone is a Phone. And any Android "phone" is a phone first. It can compute many things similarly to any desktop or laptop. But, it's not either. Just because people use it in other ways than it was fully intended for. Doesn't make it those other things. Same as lipstick isn't a crayon, even though they both color.

Because the devices themselves are the restriction. Unless you want to carry brick around in your pocket. Your phone will not perform as long as a desktop or laptop (CPU, GPU, Memory, Storage, Battery, heat/thermals). Most desktops to my knowledge don't carry a cellular modem. Some laptops do however. But, you can't fit a laptop or desktop in your pocket. Its physics.

Yes, and the rules Apple put in place to allow 3rd party stores is brilliant. They still have to vet it, and they still can charge a fee. 3rd party's still have skin in the game to keep things safe. I was very worried they would allow side loading without any real authority to prevent malice apps or downloads affecting not just the end user that willfully allowed. But potential any end user that had no intention of taking part. Leaving open vulnerabilities that would/could expose anyone even if they choose not to partake.

Apple literally stuck an iPhone chip in their computers when they ditched intel. The software is even compatible.

I still don't think it's Apple's right to restrict what goes on devices that people PURCHASE. If Apple provided them for free or even leased them exclusively, then that conversation can be had.

Their reign of total control is coming to an end, it just may take a few more years.

By then they may not even care, they will be making so much money from services that people will be addicted to.

 

[wbeasley]

Apple literally stuck an iPhone chip in their computers when they ditched intel. The software is even compatible.

I still don't think it's Apple's right to restrict what goes on devices that people PURCHASE. If Apple provided them for free or even leased them exclusively, then that conversation can be had.

Their reign of total control is coming to an end, it just may take a few more years.

By then they may not even care, they will be making so much money from services that people will be addicted to.

you need to get a bit real on control and where it happens.
not much in life isn't controlled.

you pay tax? you probably would prefer not to.
you break the law (that you might disagree with) and still get fined or jailed.
you subscribe to Netflix? you dont get to choose what media is offered or stays on the service.

life isnt fair. but you buy a phone knowing the restrictions. youve had 15 years of knowing what an iPhone does and how the system works. dont like it? dont buy one. simple. go forth and find that open Android phone of your dreams (and the one or two OS updates you might get before it is abandoned).

you can find phones running chips Chromebooks use. a phone is still a different beast due to thermal issues and battery life. the chips maybe based on the same architecture and code base but you already know chips are tweaked for purpose. A M2 Ultra powered mini with more cores is not the same as a low end M2. similar but different.

 

[HiVolt]

you need to get a bit real on control and where it happens.
not much in life isn't controlled.

you pay tax? you probably would prefer not to.
you break the law (that you might disagree with) and still get fined or jailed.
you subscribe to Netflix? you dont get to choose what media is offered or stays on the service.

life isnt fair. but you buy a phone knowing the restrictions. youve had 15 years of knowing what an iPhone does and how the system works. dont like it? dont buy one. simple. go forth and find that open Android phone of your dreams (and the one or two OS updates you might get before it is abandoned).

you can find phones running chips Chromebooks use. a phone is still a different beast due to thermal issues and battery life. the chips maybe based on the same architecture and code base but you already know chips are tweaked for purpose. A M2 Ultra powered mini with more cores is not the same as a low end M2. similar but different.

I pay taxes, because i know they're a necessary source of funding for roads, healthcare, services in the city, etc. Do I hate seeing my taxes wasted on dumb pet projects? Sure.

Man, why are blind sheep always so aggressive with the "so buy an android" or other snarky remarks.

I choose to put up with the limitation of the iPhone, but I would love to have options. I used to jailbreak all the way up to iOS 9, and not to pirate legit apps, but to install tweaks and modifications that Apple did not allow (on my phone).

I stopped after that because the features started being better, and the hassles with jailbreaking got harder.

Like who is Apple to tell the user that they cannot run a WiFi or cellular signal analyzer app? Why such a heavy approach? They are useful in troubleshooting or tweaking wifi networks or adjusting a cell booster. Yeah i know about field test mode but its slow and some of the fields are really slow to update.

 

[wbeasley]

I pay taxes, because i know they're a necessary source of funding for roads, healthcare, services in the city, etc. Do I hate seeing my taxes wasted on dumb pet projects? Sure.

Man, why are blind sheep always so aggressive with the "so buy an android" or other snarky remarks.

I choose to put up with the limitation of the iPhone, but I would love to have options. I used to jailbreak all the way up to iOS 9, and not to pirate legit apps, but to install tweaks and modifications that Apple did not allow (on my phone).

I stopped after that because the features started being better, and the hassles with jailbreaking got harder.

Like who is Apple to tell the user that they cannot run a WiFi or cellular signal analyzer app? Why such a heavy approach? They are useful in troubleshooting or tweaking wifi networks or adjusting a cell booster. Yeah i know about field test mode but its slow and some of the fields are really slow to update.

Like all written text, people read emotion into statements.

"so buy an Android" wasnt even what I wrote.
"go forth and find that open Android phone of your dreams" may have been read by you as aggressive.
it doesnt read that way to me even now...

It's an option. a viable option. suggested by many. and meets the use cases you and other present. open and customisable.

You've admitted you jailbreak phones (or did). Yes, it required a fair level of tech expertise and wasnt for casual users.
Apple's played cat and mouse with each iOS release to thwart jailbreaking. Just like Nintendo and Sony did with handhelds. It would be interesting to hear what tweaks and mods you did to your jailbroken phone. And what holes Apple is missing to make users happy.

A quick check in App Store shows many many iOS wifi analyzer apps available.
If your preferred app isnt there, perhaps it did other things Apple wouldnt allow?

 

[HiVolt]

Like all written text, people read emotion into statements.

"so buy an Android" wasnt even what I wrote.
"go forth and find that open Android phone of your dreams" may have been read by you as aggressive.
it doesnt read that way to me even now...

It's an option. a viable option. suggested by many. and meets the use cases you and other present. open and customisable.

You've admitted you jailbreak phones (or did). Yes, it required a fair level of tech expertise and wasnt for casual users.
Apple's played cat and mouse with each iOS release to thwart jailbreaking. Just like Nintendo and Sony did with handhelds.

A quick check in App Store shows many many iOS wifi analyzer apps available.
If your preferred app isnt there, perhaps it did other things Apple wouldnt allow?

It's clear you've never used a proper wifi analyzer app or a cellular analyzer app. the apps that exist on the app store are useless. I've had to resort to keeping an old android phone around in order to use some things. But they are always old and dont have the bands that I have available in my much newer or sometimes latest iPhone. I can't use my iPhone hardware for what I want, because Apple says no? Why? Just because.

The jailbreaks I used were the simplest of kinds, like the "one touch ones". I stopped using them when they got complicated especially the ones that did not survive reboots.

 

[wbeasley]

It's clear you've never used a proper wifi analyzer app or a cellular analyzer app. the apps that exist on the app store are useless. I've had to resort to keeping an old android phone around in order to use some things. But they are always old and dont have the bands that I have available in my much newer or sometimes latest iPhone. I can't use my iPhone hardware for what I want, because Apple says no? Why? Just because.

The jailbreaks I used were the simplest of kinds, like the "one touch ones". I stopped using them when they got complicated especially the ones that did not survive reboots.

I would guess most people never need a "proper" wifi analyzer... most of us accept tech has dead spots and limitations. I've had telcos refund phones because of dropouts and known bad reception areas they knew their towers wouldnt fix.

So you have an old android device... why not just upgrade to a new one to do the job then?

You're right, hardware moves along with new wifi standards and bands made available so old devices wont work fully if they dont know about them (well, assuming that's what you meant). But computers arent the only devices where hardware changed. You could get tvs fixed once with small parts replaced. cheaply. now its a panel or board or chuck it. and we moved from analog to digital and all the VCRs with RCA plugs or SCARTs. Progress brings change.

it still just sounds like a new Android device is what suits your use case.

Apple have NFT hardware yet I can't use it to connect to Sony speakers that way. OK, doesnt work, I just use Bluetooth manually. No biggy. I have Android phones I can tap. That sometimes work as they say and sometimes dont. It's tech. Not magic. Everything has limits and issues. Did you ever install PCI cards and play with dipswitches and set addresses and in the end take back to shops who gave you a new one because sometimes cards just didnt work? We have it so much easier these days.

 

[djphat2000]

Apple literally stuck an iPhone chip in their computers when they ditched intel. The software is even compatible.

A chip built on the same underlying tech. Just like iOS is built from macOS. However, they are not 1:1 identical. You wouldn't say want to use iOS on your Mac Pro, and you wouldn't want to run an A17 on your Mac Studio. Could you? Outside of hacking it to do so. It wouldn't make sense. One is built for mobile very low power and as minimal as possible. The other has much more headroom and power requirements. Similar, not the same. Another example. Motorcycle vs a SUV.

I still don't think it's Apple's right to restrict what goes on devices that people PURCHASE.

It is, when you think about who made the device. Did you make the device? No, so you don't have any say what so ever as to how Apple makes a product. We can agree or disagree on what they allow. As we all do. However, "we" didn't make it. We don't have a say. What we do have is a right to purchase it if we want it. And we have the right to not purchase it, if we don't. We can petition them to move in a direction we want them to. But, we don't have any right beyond that. Unless your in the EU, and you believe consumers can make corporations make products they want they way they want it. And even then. They don't get exactly what they thought they were going to get.

If Apple provided them for free or even leased them exclusively, then that conversation can be had.

They are a for profit business. And even then Apple does give away things for free. Example, macOS. Its free. No code to install. Same for iOS. Free upgrades for as long as the device can run it. They give a way apps within macOS and iOS all the time. Because you purchase the device/mac. They will give those too.

Their reign of total control is coming to an end, it just may take a few more years.

You realize Apple never had total control of anything other than what they made. And only gain in popularity because they made something different from the rest of the pack?

May their reign last and last and last.

By then they may not even care, they will be making so much money from services that people will be addicted to.

As long as it's legal.

 

[wbeasley]

It's clear you've never used a proper wifi analyzer app or a cellular analyzer app. the apps that exist on the app store are useless. I've had to resort to keeping an old android phone around in order to use some things. But they are always old and dont have the bands that I have available in my much newer or sometimes latest iPhone. I can't use my iPhone hardware for what I want, because Apple says no? Why? Just because.

The jailbreaks I used were the simplest of kinds, like the "one touch ones". I stopped using them when they got complicated especially the ones that did not survive reboots.

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so which "proper" app are you running?