Insight Timer CEO Upset With Apple's Abrupt Enforcement of App Store Rules [Updated]

[.wojtek]

Oh, look! a mafia mobster is being an extortionist mafia mobster... quelle surprise

Apple is showing they are even more shameless than everyone though...

 

[boss.king]

Which implies that whatever Apple is doing now is not against the laws as they are currently written.

But yes, I agree that Apple will give up their 30% cut only kicking and screaming. The sooner we accept this, the sooner we can all stop acting shocked and outraged whenever something like this happens.

I didn’t say or even imply that anything they’re doing is against the law.

 

[nfilipek]

We all know that Apple iOS is not open source and it has its own AppStore.

 

[toobravetosave]

It's a free market. If Apple seems greedy - quit it! Create affordable and enjoy!

who told you it’s a free market?

 

[Sophisticatednut]

The point is, it is digital content. Yes? No? Let's start with the first canard of his argument.

How is what he's doing any different than what Spotify is doing? He's delivering digital content through an IOS App.

What’s the difference to steam? Amazon store? Apps with the exception as “Reader apps”? apps that offer online medical consultation? Etc etc.

They all use the exact same services but pays 0%

And here we are, again, arguing with the silly EU people that Apple should give its services away for free.

They are paying 99$ a year. They are paying their fair share.

 

[AiPone12mini]

It's only a matter of time before all activity like this is banned. Nothing like this would ever be accepted on desktop computers or laptops, but somehow it's acceptable on pocket computers.

Apple is just trying to rake in for as long as they can. The ride will end at some point. EU started it, its still has ways to go, but it will eventually get here as well.

Amen for that. This can easily happen until there are no true sideloading. One day people discover that Apple even tells how much you can call, record videos, play radio etc... or Apple helps yet another country to "abide it's law" by banning apps that certain country do not like. Mark my words.

who told you it’s a free market?

It is not free market without true sideloading.

 

[JippaLippa]

The EU makes the rules to stop "gatekeepers", but somehow I see all the efforts are mostly targeted against apple.
As if there weren't any other gatekeeper or monopoly-oriented companies...

 

[Timo_Existencia]

What’s the difference to steam? Amazon store? Apps with the exception as “Reader apps”? apps that offer online medical consultation? Etc etc.

I could go down each one and explain it to you. But I think it's best if I explain it to you like you explain the DMA to me: those are the rules. You can either follow them or not participate in the market.

 

[I7guy]

What’s the difference to steam? Amazon store? Apps with the exception as “Reader apps”? apps that offer online medical consultation? Etc etc.

They all use the exact same services but pays 0%

They are paying 99$ a year. They are paying their fair share.

The $99 is not intended to be a “fair share”. It’s intended to give a dev access to resources to do what they want to do.

 

[AdonisSMU]

Digital goods are not physical goods.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

I could go down each one and explain it to you. But I think it's best if I explain it to you like you explain the DMA to me: those are the rules. You can either follow them or not participate in the market.

Oh so they are potentially illegal then? I explained what the DMA rules are and why they are as they are. As well as the economic theory that is the foundation behind it.

I suspect the rules are how they are because that’s the legal system in the U.S. that allows it. But in EU they are inconsistent and very likely antitrust.

The $99 is not intended to be a “fair share”. It’s intended to give a dev access to resources to do what they want to do.

Well Amazon store, steam app and medical consultation apps doesn’t pay anything more than that, and so does millions of other free apps as well.

You seem to get just about everything for $99 a year except IAP functionality

 

[Hopefully Smarter]

Enough! There are viable solutions that will benefit all parties. Apple is preventing this.

 

[ackmondual]

The tipping culture is out of control anyway. Now, you have to tip virtual instructors.

Well, at least on the USA.

 

[I7guy]

[…].

Well Amazon store, steam app and medical consultation apps doesn’t pay anything more than that, and so does millions of other free apps as well.

You seem to get just about everything for $99 a year except IAP functionality

yes. Different customers pay different prices and have different agreements. This is the way the business world works. Even if your business treats customers the same the biggest ones or most powerful gets exceptions.

 

[dead.cell]

Yeah, I see the tipping system as a way for employers to guilt trip customers into picking up the slack for not paying their employees a fair wage. It’s a smoke screen they can hide behind.
And I don’t buy that tips is good way to motivate a worker to do a good job. If employers want to make it a commission-type job, that’s fine, but employers pay commission, not customers. Customers rate by either bringing their business or not.
Employers should take responsibility, pay employees a fair wage and charge customers what it costs.

I think sometimes people just get inventive for ways to make money.

On Monday, went to get my car washed. It's an automated machine so you can select your wash, pay, then drive in for the machine to do the work. Tell me WHY there is some person standing in front of it to push the buttons then to be like, "you wanna tip?" No bro, I can press the damn buttons myself!

Friend of mine tells me he went to a music venue downtown, and told me about a guy who decided he'd whip out a flashlight to guide him into a parking spot he had no trouble parking in. But hey man, he wiggled the flashlight for you, gotta tip!

It's just mental. It's got me to the point that for some fast food places like Starbucks or Jimmy Johns who want tips added, I'd rather just pre-pay without the tip. I'm not against tipping either mind you, but damn let that be a choice instead of some mandatory requirement for the simplest of things...

 

[Sophisticatednut]

yes. Different customers pay different prices and have different agreements. This is the way the business world works. Even if your business treats customers the same the biggest ones or most powerful gets exceptions.

It’s the same rules and the same agreement as everyone else signs to use the AppStore that dictates what can and can’t be on the store.

But that’s Is the U.S. legal system. Legally allowed to make the rules and not follow them at the same time I guess.

 

[cocky jeremy]

It's almost as if one company shouldn't have this much control over digital commerce.

It's almost as if a company should have all control over their own digital commerce.

 

[coredev]

They absolutely will not change unless forced to by law.

And why would they? It's their business model. It went to court already, and Apple won.
So it is not only their business model for a long time now, it is also battle tested.
Copied by other companies as well.
Anyone bringing their digital goods to Apple's platform should know this by now.

Why are you explaining the thing I said back to me? Did you not read the post you’re quoting?

I responded to a message you posted on a message board. That is common practice.

You stated one thing. I agree with your initial assessment, and replied with a question, albeit rhetorical, and following argumentation why this (the thing you state, as well as my opinion on the matter) is the case.

In no way was my comment on this board meant to offend you. And yes, I read your post. That's what I based my reply on. This should be obvious. However, you seem to be rather thin-skinned. Feel free to ignore my further posts, as I will certainly do yours.

 

[AirpodsNow]

I am familiar with part of the podcast/audio meditation scene. Insight timer actually reroutes (read: take) content from free creators as well and incorporate that into their directory / search. This free content gets accessible through access for insight and some teachers are not aware of that, but visitors can still donate to this teacher. In our case the teacher has passed away in the 90s, but got a 'specially' enabled tip or donation button for the teacher. When I asked about why this is, it was then removed without clarifications.

Although I believe that there must be content creators that make a good living with this. However I became rather sceptical with the business practise of insight timer. The free content are mostly podcast content with public RSS, but to have it put behind a sort of regular or one time payment in another app seems kind of wrong.

 

[jjwwqq]

30% is highway robbery.

 

[djphat2000]

"Plowman says that while he is frustrated, he believes Apple is willing to listen and that the company can be convinced to change. He asks that people share his story, but in a constructive manner."

Good luck with that.

That is the exact behavior he should be demonstrating. Work with them to solve the problem. Get others engaged constructively to work the problem. Not pull and EPIC.

 

[djphat2000]

More and more, I can no longer support Apple's definition of a "commission", especially at 15-30%. While I rarely do, I did tweet Tim Cook (again) suggesting that it's time for Apple to reconsider this model. Drop it to 5-10% across the board for everyone, and educate the Reviews team about the difference between a subscription fee and a tip.

While you're at it. Go to your boss and ask for your pay to be lower than it is today. I'm sure they will agree to do it.

 

[djphat2000]

They absolutely will not change unless forced to by law.

He literally stated differently. Maybe this way is better than EPIC's.

 

[djphat2000]

To be clear, Apple's never needed 30% of every transaction. They took it because they could. And they offer just enough convenience that most normal people (i.e. the people who actually need to voice displeasure with this stuff) won't sacrifice any of it to improve things, because they don't really care about tech as long as it isn't too painful to use.

It is either of value to those that use it or it isn't.
The statement of Never needed 30% of every transaction is laughable. Because you know what they need right?
You know what it costs to run the store right? The infrastructure and the people. You have all that down to a science. And Apple shouldn't make a penny more than needed to break even.

 

[djphat2000]

Are these Yoga and meditation classes recorded in studios/rooms/facilities rented or owned by Apple?
Does Apple host the content and streaming servers to provide these pre-recorded or live classes?

No? 👉 Back to square one in coming up with a (new) analogy.

They could use a web app to do the same thing.