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There is something to be said for the rugged design, the industrial design, and the simple to use (and elegant) OS. That being said, Apple is currently overpriced imho. They could come down quite a bit.

The i5 cpu may not be a quad i7, but it's by no means a crappy cpu.

Intel has five lines of mobile cpus with celeron starting the line at the first level, pentium next, i3 in the middle, i5, and then i7. The pentium and later, are all dual core at least. Even the netbook favorite Intel Atom has gone to dual core in latest renditions.

And Intel's chief competitor, AMD, does not have five levels of processors to match Intel at this time which could boast the same low power consumption.

Power consumption, and not speed, is what drives the mobile processor market and Intel finds itself way ahead of AMD in a way it never has. We will see what AMD has in store next, but they will have to put out some mobile chips with superior battery times if they are to recapture some of the market.

AMD has always had more strength in their desktop line than their mobile line. Unfortunately, that only applies to the only one Mac model shipping with a desktop processor, the 27" iMac, and while the dual-core model is lacking, the quad-core model is just fine with its i5/i7. Where they might serve Apple best is on the lower-end with machines that need an IGP that is either integrated into the CPU or the chipset, as AMD's graphics division (formerly ATI) doesn't suck with their IGPs like Intel does with its.

i dont know about you guys, but i just think the snb is gonna be a great update.
(esp. for mbp 13).
we get thinner, lighter, and longer battery, and great performance boost.
Personally, i dont think we need that nice graphics for a 13 inch laptop, if you want to play hard-core games, go buy 15 or 17 or just enjoy with a desktop. d

For the 15" and 17" MacBook Pro, it'll be rad. For the 13" Pro, if they can't find a way to use discrete graphics, it'll blow, almost to the point where they'll consider discontinuing the 13" Pro altogether (they're already slated to only put out four models, which conveniently excludes the two 13" models from the current six model line-up). We don't need nice graphics on the lower-end Macs, but giving us less than the performance offered by the 320M on a 13" Pro is just plain wrong. The white MacBook, on the other hand will get the upgrade and it'll be rad. Otherwise, I fail to see what's so weird about a 13" laptop with nice graphics, you see 11" and 12" laptops with higher-end NVIDIA graphics all the time.

Tongue in cheek?
Because gray and utiltarian with straight lines is my impression of the macbook pro design. I'm hoping to see some changes to the box this year.

Don't bank on it, they don't change that design all that often. You might see a slight design change, but not all that much of one.

Have to be early march they have to get ready for iOS in April.
And wwdc in June/July.
But it has to be after the desktop refresh late Jan?

They JUST refreshed the desktops. I mean, they could afford to give the iMacs the newer Radeon cards that just came out, but even then, they were just refreshed. Even the current Mac mini is still only a hair too new for a refresh. Given that, I'm not sure what you're referring to.

whats funny is even your no bs prices are too high for current price/performance standards.

the base model 15" is a crappy i5 cpu, those are found in $700 laptops (laptops with dedicated video cards)

Yeah, when I realized recently that I wanted to step up from saving for the 13" MacBook Pro to the bottom-of-the-line 15" model, I thought that 2.4GHz dual-core seemed sad for such a large price tag. I'm hoping that model in the line gets a better boost in the next rev.

Please don't even joke about crap like that :p

+1
 
They JUST refreshed the desktops. I mean, they could afford to give the iMacs the newer Radeon cards that just came out, but even then, they were just refreshed. Even the current Mac mini is still only a hair too new for a refresh. Given that, I'm not sure what you're referring to.

End of July was the last update and that was the overhaul of the internals (next overhaul should be screen size and case).
If you look at the buyers guide there is normally a bumpdate 6-7months after the overhauls. Ok so probably only new CPU and GPU options on the same Mobo. Maybe cheaper SSD options, but an update none the less maybe without media event.

Look at the MacPro it use to get more regular updates as well. Plus it's in need of an overhaul update not just a bumpdate, which would need a media event plus with the death of the xserve and questions over Final Cut they need to talk to the people about these things.

Maybe Apple just discontinues the Macbook Pros and the Macbook and from now on everything will just be like the Macbook Air. Thin, getting smaller to the front, SSDs, no ODD, etc... Not sure if Apple will call them Macbook Airs but I guess thats where we go from here. Just wondering if they would be able to fit a discrete graphics card in the 15" and 17" packages.

Hehe nice attempt at sarcasm....

Apple's strategy means they need to keep the creatives on-board.
They may have realised that might not always require their own hardware, ie.xServe-dongle, and some of these people will be better served by software only.
Still MacBookPros aren't going away any time soon.
 
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End of July was the last update and that was the overhaul of the internals (next overhaul should be screen size and case).
If you look at the buyers guide there is normally a bumpdate 6-7months after the overhauls. Ok so probably only new CPU and GPU options on the same Mobo. Maybe cheaper SSD options, but an update none the less maybe without media event.

Look at the MacPro it use to get more regular updates as well. Plus it's in need of an overhaul update not just a bumpdate, which would need a media event plus with the death of the xserve and questions over Final Cut they need to talk to the people about these things.

The buyers guide even says that it's in the middle of its release cycle. Don't expect anything before the beginning of May at the earliest, iMac-wise. Should it get an update, absolutely, they timed the last refresh poorly as they were only months shy of newer AMD (ATI) Radeon cards, among other common technology advances that would've made it worth the wait. But will it get an update, no, not realistically.

The Mac Pro doesn't need to get updates as frequently as it's plenty fast and plenty expandable. As it stands, they're only updating it when the Xeon updates, which also doesn't need to be as often as it's not a mainstream consumer product.

Apple also doesn't need to talk to the public about the discontinuation of the Xserve; it didn't sell, and it clearly doesn't fit their marketing strategy for servers (or lack thereof). Nor does it need to pat the Final Cut community (of which I consider myself a part of) on the back and assure them that an update is coming. They're Apple and they'll do whatever the hell they want to.

I swear, some people on these forums really get mixed up between what Apple is likely to do and what they really want Apple to do.
 
The buyers guide even says that it's in the middle of its release cycle. Don't expect anything before the beginning of May at the earliest, iMac-wise.

I swear, some people on these forums really get mixed up between what Apple is likely to do and what they really want Apple to do.

Apple is a company of patterns not numbers.
When you start looking at them like that they aren't as mysterious.
 
I walked into Office Depot and they had the old generation Intel "i" laptop marked down from $899 to $699, but announced the Sandy Bridge version from Toshiba to be priced at $999 when it comes out.

For those of you who are laptop fiends, is it that much better of a processor, the Sandy Bridge i5 vs. the older Intel i5 on a Toshiba laptop?

And at what part of the Sandy Bridge i5 laptop (with integrated graphics) supposed to be that much better than the previous i5 with integrated graphics? I could understand if this new laptop has dedicated graphics, but this model didn't, but Toshiba may come out with one but it won't be $999, right?
 
I walked into Office Depot and they had the old generation Intel "i" laptop marked down from $899 to $699, but announced the Sandy Bridge version from Toshiba to be priced at $999 when it comes out.

For those of you who are laptop fiends, is it that much better of a processor, the Sandy Bridge i5 vs. the older Intel i5 on a Toshiba laptop?

And at what part of the Sandy Bridge i5 laptop (with integrated graphics) supposed to be that much better than the previous i5 with integrated graphics? I could understand if this new laptop has dedicated graphics, but this model didn't, but Toshiba may come out with one but it won't be $999, right?

how this for you?

new_vs_old_625bpx.jpg


i still dont really believe the video encoding time.......
 
I walked into Office Depot and they had the old generation Intel "i" laptop marked down from $899 to $699, but announced the Sandy Bridge version from Toshiba to be priced at $999 when it comes out.

For those of you who are laptop fiends, is it that much better of a processor, the Sandy Bridge i5 vs. the older Intel i5 on a Toshiba laptop?

And at what part of the Sandy Bridge i5 laptop (with integrated graphics) supposed to be that much better than the previous i5 with integrated graphics? I could understand if this new laptop has dedicated graphics, but this model didn't, but Toshiba may come out with one but it won't be $999, right?

As far as processing power is concerned, it is supposed to be a pretty big increase. As far as the integrated processor, it's still supposed to be a pretty big increase as the last (current) Intel IGP doesn't even touch the last generation NVIDIA GeForce 9400M IGP, whereas the IGP on Sandy Bridge is slightly less powerful than the NVIDIA GeForce 320M IGP (The generation of NVIDIA IGPs after the 9400m; currently the best IGP you can get on the older Core 2 laptops), which leads me to believe that, like the 320M, it's significantly more powerful than the 9400M. So while Intel's next IGP (in Sandy Bridge) is not as good as the incumbant NVIDIA IGP (on the lower-end Macs with NVIDIA IGPs), it is still going to be a vast improvement over its predecessor in the current Core i3/i5/i7 processors. Though, leave it to Intel to leave us underwhelmed in terms of integrated graphics performance.
 
As far as processing power is concerned, it is supposed to be a pretty big increase. As far as the integrated processor, it's still supposed to be a pretty big increase as the last (current) Intel IGP doesn't even touch the last generation NVIDIA GeForce 9400M IGP, whereas the IGP on Sandy Bridge is slightly less powerful than the NVIDIA GeForce 320M IGP, which leads me to believe that, like the 320M, it's significantly more powerful than the 9400M. So while Intel's next IGP (in Sandy Bridge) is not as good as the incumbant NVIDIA IGP (on the lower-end Macs with NVIDIA IGPs), it is still going to be a vast improvement over its predecessor in the current Core i3/i5/i7 processors. Though, leave it to Intel to leave us underwhelmed in terms of integrated graphics performance.

3dmark vantage 312 vs 2186, thats pretty big to me
thats like the game not even loading vs being playable at an OK frame rate.
 
3dmark vantage 312 vs 2186, thats pretty big to me
thats like the game not even loading vs being playable at an OK frame rate.

Oh no, I'll gladly agree that the difference between the last Intel IGP and Sandy Bridge's IGP is VAST. Where I lose enthusiasm is when it's compared to the GeForce 320M used with a Core 2 Duo and it still loses, albeit barely. Come on, Intel, you're using NVIDIA's intellectual property! You should be able to do better!
 
Oh no, I'll gladly agree that the difference between the last Intel IGP and Sandy Bridge's IGP is VAST. Where I lose enthusiasm is when it's compared to the GeForce 320M used with a Core 2 Duo and it still loses, albeit barely. Come on, Intel, you're using NVIDIA's intellectual property! You should be able to do better!

i guess the emotional context came across wrong, i was agreeing with you and providing some numbers to visualize the difference.
 
i guess the emotional context came across wrong, i was agreeing with you and providing some numbers to visualize the difference.

Ah. Makes sense. Still, the notion that NVIDIA's IP is going into Sandy Bridge, gives me a little bit more confidence, though, they still have catching up to do. Maybe with Ivy Bridge, they'll finally be at least a hair faster than the 320M.
 
As far as processing power is concerned, it is supposed to be a pretty big increase. As far as the integrated processor, it's still supposed to be a pretty big increase as the last (current) Intel IGP doesn't even touch the last generation NVIDIA GeForce 9400M IGP, whereas the IGP on Sandy Bridge is slightly less powerful than the NVIDIA GeForce 320M IGP (The generation of NVIDIA IGPs after the 9400m; currently the best IGP you can get on the older Core 2 laptops), which leads me to believe that, like the 320M, it's significantly more powerful than the 9400M. So while Intel's next IGP (in Sandy Bridge) is not as good as the incumbant NVIDIA IGP (on the lower-end Macs with NVIDIA IGPs), it is still going to be a vast improvement over its predecessor in the current Core i3/i5/i7 processors. Though, leave it to Intel to leave us underwhelmed in terms of integrated graphics performance.

Thanks for the info.

It sounds like integrated graphics have made a jump (maybe even a big one), but are still a long ways away from the superiority of a dedicated graphics processor.

You are in my neck of the woods. I took the prereqs (most of them) for a computer engineering PhD at UCSC and it's amazing how academia doesn't give a person any idea what the end product (or applicable product) is or can be. I may go up to Baskin Engineering up there and ask around about Sandy Bridge but I suspect many won't know what it is, even though processors is what they study in theory. Sometimes, rarely though, you can find an engineering student who both uses computers for gaming and business applications, and can explain engineering theory as it relates to a product release right now, or coming up shortly. It's fairly rare though as many get relegated to a tiny corner of their field if they embark on graduate education.

That being said, a processor takes so much information from so many disciplines that it's very hard to find a person who has an eagle's eye view of what goes on.

A friend of mine is working on a type of computer language which he estimated a decade ago would take 200 years to develop. Now with inroads made from colleagues he didn't know about, the prospect of a self-replicating code may be seen in the next century, not two centuries from now. He based his models on current technology of the time without even seeing how massive the bump in speed and storage would change the outlook of his field of AI. He was one of the first in AI to actually use a mouse, so being merely human that was a giant thing to wrap one's head around when he started with vacuum tubes and doing the math before the invention of math co-processors. His head is so in the theoretical and academic research that he has no idea nor interest where current technology stands. He can't load a driver from a CD nor does he know, or care, how to use a PDA, cell, or anything electronic. But what he discovers and works on will be just a brick in a step in a long stairway which will get us where his field wants to be. When his group of scientists come up with a concept, the engineers take what is good and toss out what is rubbish, and make something out of it.

But many cutting edge corporate engineers (who work a little more in the practical) who sweated blood to get where they are working on a decade or decades long project sometimes fall into the mold that what they are doing is THE most important project in technology and the last of its kind. If I had a penny for every engineer or scientist who said computers would stop going down in price or that processor technology will eventually cease to improve, I would be very rich. :)

My guess is that it's a long time before integrated graphics will satisfy the average gamer. From what reviews I have read, the current (pre-Sandy Bridge) "i" processors can handle a CS Suite for most tasks, but not all of them in satisfactory manner. For video within CS, a dedicated GPU with Core 2 Duo still seems more the thing than an i5 by itself in many forums about this kind of stuff. The same is said for many games from gamers like me who don't do well enough to know the difference. If ever I get good enough to that point, which many youth are at right now, I may see how Sandy Bridge is a big step up in the "i" series chips, but still a far cry from dedicated graphics processors. I don't think Intel bashing is all about going after the big guy. I suspect that there's merit to the still unsatisfied hard core gamers towards integrated graphics.
 
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I walked into Office Depot and they had the old generation Intel "i" laptop marked down from $899 to $699, but announced the Sandy Bridge version from Toshiba to be priced at $999 when it comes out.

For those of you who are laptop fiends, is it that much better of a processor, the Sandy Bridge i5 vs. the older Intel i5 on a Toshiba laptop?

And at what part of the Sandy Bridge i5 laptop (with integrated graphics) supposed to be that much better than the previous i5 with integrated graphics? I could understand if this new laptop has dedicated graphics, but this model didn't, but Toshiba may come out with one but it won't be $999, right?

Anyone got a comparison for the old i3 vs sb i3?
 
I sincerely doubt whether the i3 will find its way into any mac. i5 should be the Apple entry level.

Why not have the i3 for Macbooks and both MBAs, and i5 and i7 for MBP line?

The i3 could start the iMac line, mid-level can be i5, and the top could be an i7.

The i3 can basically replace any Core 2 Duo stuff right now. The i5 has Turbo Boost and can hold a mid-level computer well. And leave the high end i7 for the best stuff.

Of course, Mac Pro could stay with Xeons.
 
Why not have the i3 for Macbooks and both MBAs, and i5 and i7 for MBP line?

The i3 could start the iMac line, mid-level can be i5, and the top could be an i7.

The i3 can basically replace any Core 2 Duo stuff right now. The i5 has Turbo Boost and can hold a mid-level computer well. And leave the high end i7 for the best stuff.

Of course, Mac Pro could stay with Xeons.

Why not just have at least the i5 across the board? As you said, the i3 doesn't do turbo, which is something everyone can use.

Even the MacBook Air should really be classed as a mid level computer. It still uses pretty good CPUs.
 
Why not just have at least the i5 across the board? As you said, the i3 doesn't do turbo, which is something everyone can use.

Even the MacBook Air should really be classed as a mid level computer. It still uses pretty good CPUs.

It would be nice to start in the middle of the "i" line, but it's never been Apple's thing to be that cutting edge in processors on the Intel side. The PCs usually have the faster processors.

That being said, Apple has the better OS, better industrial design, better bundled software, and better service so their products are worth it.

If Apple sold a laptop for $800 dollars sporting an i5 like the PC side does, a lot would have to give. But with a Mac, you can expect the Macbook to cost $1200 with Sandy Bridge i5 and the price would be unacceptable as an entry level laptop as Apple won't diminish software, hardware, or support.

To keep all the great things about Apple going, and get a laptop for under a grand, it wouldn't be that much of an imposition to have a Sandy Bridge i3 being that the previous processor was a Core 2 Duo. If possible keep the rest of the laptop the same, if not better, but I think it would sell.

The Core 2 Duo Macs have done quite well so there's no reason the Core i3 should do any worse. Though dual core, all the "i" series chips act as four logical processors instead of two so it's a step up.
 
I sincerely doubt whether the i3 will find its way into any mac. i5 should be the Apple entry level.

It's currently in the dual-core iMac models. Or were you referring to the Sandy Bridge i3?

Why not have the i3 for Macbooks and both MBAs, and i5 and i7 for MBP line?

The i3 could start the iMac line, mid-level can be i5, and the top could be an i7.

The i3 can basically replace any Core 2 Duo stuff right now. The i5 has Turbo Boost and can hold a mid-level computer well. And leave the high end i7 for the best stuff.

Of course, Mac Pro could stay with Xeons.

That sounds sound to me.

Why not just have at least the i5 across the board? As you said, the i3 doesn't do turbo, which is something everyone can use.

Even the MacBook Air should really be classed as a mid level computer. It still uses pretty good CPUs.

I think it'd be rad to have the Core i5 as the lowest thing offered. It'd certainly take SOME (but not) all flack from the notion of paying premium for bottom of the line and/or outdated tech.
 
Anyone got a comparison for the old i3 vs sb i3?

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/289?vs=143

That's pretty much as clock for clock as it can get.

I sincerely doubt whether the i3 will find its way into any mac. i5 should be the Apple entry level.

3 iMacs out of 4 have an i3.

Why not have the i3 for Macbooks and both MBAs, and i5 and i7 for MBP line?

There is no i3 that is suitable for MBA. All but one LV and ULV CPUs are i7.

As you said, the i3 doesn't do turbo, which is something everyone can use.

I'm sure 95% of the buyers of 13" MBP are more than fine with i3, even with the lack of Turbo. There are only 3 i5 models so that may not be enough for the whole lineup (currently Apple uses 5 different CPUs and if 13" went i5, it would require 4 i5 models unless Apple uses the same CPU in some models).

Low-end 13" - i3-2310M
High-end 13" - i5-2410M

Low-end 15" - i5-2520M
Mid-level 15" - i5-2540M
High-end 15" - i7-2620M (BTO option for i7-2720QM)

17" - i7-2620M (BTO option for i7-2720QM)

That's my guess.
 
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