Intel Apple Laptop In January?

[Maxx Power]

I donno, just saw a review of Yonah at anandtech, it draws barely less power than a Athlon 64 X2, and is slightly slower.

But 92 watts idle and 108 watts load isn't pretty for a laptop, and it is weak to compete with the veteran Athlon 64 X2.

Check it out yourself:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2627

 

[switchr92]

My WAG* is that the first PowerBooks will come in at:
-PowerBook 12" -> 1.5Ghz dual core Yonah (Whatever is the lowest dual core they have.)
-PowerBook 15" -> 2.0Ghz dual core Yonah
-PowerBook 17" -> Whatever is TOP of the line for the Yonah (Prob 2.1-2.3Ghz.)

-iBook 14" Widescreen 2 GHz single core Dothan.
-iBook 12" Widescreen 1.5 GHz single core ULV Dothan with a form factor to boot that is less then .5 of an inch thick.


Before people start screeching that they would never put out a CPU that is below the speed of what is currently out keep in mind the selling point of have 2 cores. That could possibly offset the idea that its going to be slower then the G4 at 1.67Ghz which we know it won't be.

*Wild @** Guess

I disagree, I don't think they would mind putting out a lower GHz # of the P. M than the G4, but i also disagree that they would put a higher GHz # on the 14" iBook than the 12" P. Book, because in some tasks not requiring dual-core or not taking advantage of Dual core, the 14 ibook could beat the 12 Pbook. And don't start whining, "Yonah is better than Dothan", because a 2GHz Dothan will beat a 1.5 GHz Yonah if dual-cores are utilized.

 

[Stella]

Do you have examples? My PC came with a 3 month subscription to Anti-Virus (not needed on mac), and WinDVD (also not needed on mac). So in my experience Apple gives you more (and better) software.

Anti Virus is helpful on a Mac - do you want to send email viruses on to other users? (Personally, I don't, its a windows problem and they can deal with it ;-) )

As for software bundles - i could always remember smaller PC manufacturers would offer software bundles ( OEM microsoft software, and / or Word Perfect OEM plus other OEM software) but looking at Dell, Sony and Gateway, they do not.

 

[digitalbiker]

Hot!

I donno, just saw a review of Yonah at anandtech, it draws barely less power than a Athlon 64 X2, and is slightly slower.

But 92 watts idle and 108 watts load isn't pretty for a laptop, and it is weak to compete with the veteran Athlon 64 X2.

Check it out yourself:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2627

Wow! And we thought the G5 was too hot for a laptop. I guess the super thin low fan noise laptop days are gone with these new Intels. Now we get to look forward to Powerbricks rather than PowerBooks.

 

[toneloco2881]

I donno, just saw a review of Yonah at anandtech, it draws barely less power than a Athlon 64 X2, and is slightly slower.

But 92 watts idle and 108 watts load isn't pretty for a laptop, and it is weak to compete with the veteran Athlon 64 X2.

Check it out yourself:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2627

This was for the "Total" power consumption of the entire computer. Also, keep in mind the yonah was placed in a desktop motherboard, with other desktop components. Yonah fared incredibly well with one of the more powerful "desktop" chips in existence, at similar clockspeeds while exhibiting significantly lower power consumption. Look at the minimal increase in idle and load values. Typical power for the processor itself should be around 31w MAX. I was beyond impressed!

I feel like a little kid all over again waiting for christmas, but this time it's in anticipation of MWSF!!

 

[Maxx Power]

Wow! And we thought the G5 was too hot for a laptop. I guess the super thin low fan noise laptop days are gone with these new Intels. Now we get to look forward to Powerbricks rather than PowerBooks.

I suppose they'll make low power versions, but they definitely won't be clocked at much faster than current fastest powerbooks, and most software by then won't be multi-threaded or the games, and there won't be a significant performance gain for those softwares.

 

[SiliconAddict]

I disagree, I don't think they would mind putting out a lower GHz # of the P. M than the G4, but i also disagree that they would put a higher GHz # on the 14" iBook than the 12" P. Book, because in some tasks not requiring dual-core or not taking advantage of Dual core, the 14 ibook could beat the 12 Pbook. And don't start whining, "Yonah is better than Dothan", because a 2GHz Dothan will beat a 1.5 GHz Yonah if dual-cores are utilized.

Huh?

 

[digitalbiker]

I suppose they'll make low power versions, but they definitely won't be clocked at much faster than current fastest powerbooks, and most software by then won't be multi-threaded or the games, and there won't be a significant performance gain for those softwares.

It will be very interesting to see if these new Intel chips really make a big performance difference running OS X x86 when compared to the old G4 Powerbooks. The benchmarks will finally be Apples to Apples.

If there isn't a big difference then I would deem the Intel switch a bad idea. I mean why go through jeopardizing your entire user base, developer community, etc. if there is very little gain in laptop performance. Desktop performance of the G5 is already superior to most x86 designs. FP performance of the G5 blows away the Pentium 4.

Apple would have been better off optimizing OS X for the PPC and spending more dollars on PPC & Cell research to help IBM produce the optimum product.

If there is a big gain then Apple probably made the right choice and the whole transition will hopefully be worth the effort.

 

[nagromme]

My WAG* is that the first PowerBooks will come in at:
-PowerBook 12" -> 1.5Ghz dual core Yonah (Whatever is the lowest dual core they have.)
-PowerBook 15" -> 2.0Ghz dual core Yonah
-PowerBook 17" -> Whatever is TOP of the line for the Yonah (Prob 2.1-2.3Ghz.)

-iBook 14" Widescreen 2 GHz single core Dothan.
-iBook 12" Widescreen 1.5 GHz single core ULV Dothan with a form factor to boot that is less then .5 of an inch thick.

When is the single-core variant of Yonah expected? Alongside Yonah or later? I forget. I thought that might make it into iBooks--epecially if PowerBooks came first.

 

[nagromme]

If there isn't a big difference then I would deem the Intel switch a bad idea. I mean why go through jeopardizing your entire user base, developer community, etc. if there is very little gain in laptop performance. Desktop performance of the G5 is already superior to most x86 designs. FP performance of the G5 blows away the Pentium 4.

Apple would have been better off optimizing OS X for the PPC and spending more dollars on PPC & Cell research to help IBM produce the optimum product.

There IS a difference. Pentium M is faster than the G4, without any doubt--and the apps to take full advantage of that are well on their way.

No amount of optimizing would make a G4 match a Pentium M--much LESS the chips that are coming AFTER the Pentium M, like Yonah, Merom, and beyond.

As for spending more dollars--yes, that would have allowed IBM to do better than they have. But it would have made hugely expensive Macs, too. Better to go with Intel.

Right now the G5 holds its own just great. But IBM's plans have slipped behind again and again. The G5 won't always hold its own.

Cell is neat, but it's a specialized design with its own very serious limitations. It's not a replacement for a G5. If anything, it could work alongside a main CPU someday. Maybe we'll see that happen.

 

[digitalbiker]

When is the single-core variant of Yonah expected? Alongside Yonah or later? I forget. I thought that might make it into iBooks--epecially if PowerBooks came first.

I think the single core variant of Yonah is expected several months after the dual core version.

 

[digitalbiker]

There IS a difference. Pentium M is faster than the G4, without any doubt--and the apps to take full advantage of that are well on their way.

I don't doubt that this is most likely true. But in the past we never really knew for sure due to the fact that not only were we dealing with different chipsets but benchmarks were done using different OS's, GPU's, different software etc. I have seen a lot of benchmarks showing the G4 kill the P-M at variou Photoshop processes, DVD encoding, etc.

Now at least OS X, iLife, iTunes, etc will be native to both chipsets and we can really measure the performance difference directly. I, for one will be real interested to see how these first systems compare.

I still think we will see some of the Linux box manufacturors use the low-power G5 in future laptop systems, possibly with specialized cell graphics processing engines. I have heard there are a few prototype machines already.

 

[nsjoker]

the intel switch is due to more than just performance and temperature... if demand is high enough for these portables, intel can deliver on time, something IBM could never do. apple sees itself outgrowing IBM's supply capabilities, so they went with intel. i think people are expecting a night and day change, which is dumb. we shouldn't notice that big a bump in performance gains from ppc.

 

[nagromme]

I still think we will see some of the Linux box manufacturors use the low-power G5 in future laptop systems, possibly with specialized cell graphics processing engines. I have heard there are a few prototype machines already.

I'd like to see the PowerPC architecture live on in various forms--even if it can't meet the needs of the Mac platform forever.

 

[MacFan782040]

Aluminum iBooks
Black Powerbooks

NOOOOOOoOOOO Black Powerbooooooooks!

They'll get scratched!!!!!!!!!!

 

[AidenShaw]

I still think we will see some of the Linux box manufacturors use the low-power G5 in future laptop systems, possibly with specialized cell graphics processing engines. I have heard there are a few prototype machines already.

Desktop Linux is struggling to find its place today, even with x86 systems cheap and everywhere (sub-notebook, laptop, SFF desktop, towers,...).

A PPC Linux system would have the basic problem that very few applications would run on it - the binaries would be incompatible.

I certainly wouldn't invest in such a venture....

 

[g0gie]

omg judging from that anandtech article, the dual core yonah based pb will ROCK

 

[digitalbiker]

Desktop Linux is struggling to find its place today, even with x86 systems cheap and everywhere (sub-notebook, laptop, SFF desktop, towers,...).

A PPC Linux system would have the basic problem that very few applications would run on it - the binaries would be incompatible.

I certainly wouldn't invest in such a venture....

Well that is true but the OpenSource community seems to be pretty resourceful. I wouldn't think it would be that difficult to recompile most linux appliations for PPC. Already quite a few PPC binaries can be had on Source forge as well as Apache, Mysql, MyPhp, etc.

 

[NicP]

Anti Virus is helpful on a Mac - do you want to send email viruses on to other users? (Personally, I don't, its a windows problem and they can deal with it ;-) )

I think this would be a very unlikely situation, the only way you would send a virus would be if you recieved an attatchment with a virus (like a dodgy word macro or something) and fowarded it on. I'd like to think most people are smart enough to avoid such an event without the help of a virus checker

As for software bundles - i could always remember smaller PC manufacturers would offer software bundles ( OEM microsoft software, and / or Word Perfect OEM plus other OEM software) but looking at Dell, Sony and Gateway, they do not.

This was my point exactly

 

[NicP]

Desktop Linux is struggling to find its place today, even with x86 systems cheap and everywhere (sub-notebook, laptop, SFF desktop, towers,...).

A PPC Linux system would have the basic problem that very few applications would run on it - the binaries would be incompatible.

I certainly wouldn't invest in such a venture....

Ubuntu has a version for PPC, i dont understand why binary incompatiability would be a problem, you can always compile from the source

 

[digitalbiker]

iBooks, PowerBooks, ?

Does anybody think Apple will do away with the old iBook, PowerBook designations?

Seems to me that this would be the perfect marketing oportunity to change the whole notebook line. Look at the iPod models. Apple completely abandoned the Pro/Consumer designations. and instead just offers a very comprehensive line of products.

Why can't Apple release their first intel notebook as a basic well rounded portable. Later on they introduce higher-end/pro features in a nice light weight formfactor, then they introduce a sub-notebook / tablet design, and eventually a gaming high-end powerbrick.

Why get caught up in the "Oh we can't release the new 1.5 Ghz G3 ibook yet because the PB is only a 1.2 Ghz G4" mess again? Apple now has the chance to stert over, so why wouldn't they. Does an Apple branded laptop really have to be designated a PowerBook?

 

[golfstud]

I hope I'm not sitting next to you!

I'm so excited I'm going to have to wear Huggies during the MWSF keynote!

Great line! Jonathon your posts on these boards are generally great.

My prediction:
NEW mac mini with Front Row etc for SURE.
ILIFE 06
revised shuffles

one more thing....new IBOOKS

that is IT. NO POWERBOOKS. NO IMACS. AS for other INTEL CPUS:

You will see POWERBOOKS at either NAB or WWDC. FCP, Motion, etc all need universal binaries first..before PRO machines show up. You will see IMACS late summer early fall.

IF we are LUCKY we see new TOWER POWERMACS next JAN...but I bet it will be March 07' before intel power BEASTS.

(PS I get a laugh our of how everyone thinks INTEL is so much greater that PPC...INTELS new chips are cooler and consume less power for laptops...on the high end...mehh..the PPC is REAL stable if not HOT.)

 

[AidenShaw]

Ubuntu has a version for PPC, i dont understand why binary incompatiability would be a problem, you can always compile from the source

Maybe you and I can, but can your mother, sister, brother and uncle and grandfather?

The attitude "you can always compile from source" is fine for hackers and geeks, but it's not a good answer for a regular user who buys a webcam that says "Linux drivers included" at CompUSA and trys it on a PPC notebook.

Even though I can cope, it really irritates me to download a "driver" for a network card and to find out that it's really a zip that has a couple of .C files, a makefile, and a README that explains the edits that I have to make to the header files.

 

[MacTruck]

I'm gonna say that the powerbook gets the intel chips first. Why? Every time a new chip comes out the powerbook gets it. G4? The ibook still had the G3.

There will be 2 lines and they will be renamed. No more G4 or G5 in the name. The powerbook will have the dothan core and the ibook will have the G4 1.67ghz or the new 7448 moto chip.

The powerbook will have speeds up to 2.26 with a single core and 2mg cache. Then 3 months later the power book will get the new dual core intel chip yohah and the ibook will get the 1.73 dothan shortly therafter. All while this is happening the mac mini will get the 1.73 and 2ghz dothan chips and the new DVR functionality with front row. After about 3 months the mac mini will go yohan at 2ghz. With these mini enhancements nobody will think twice about moving to an intel mini, its just to compelling not to.

There won't be a problem with pro systems going intel because they will launch the pro software simultaneously. Adobe will also release its intel versions right away as well and everybody else will follow suit shortly thereafter.

Nobody will have to wait for virtual pc because apple will realeas an application to run windows natively on a seperate core while using osx. Its been shown before and is technically possible so apple will make this there largest selling point in the switch. This will be a wow factor for many people and will propell the intel transition.

Expect the G5 to move to dual dual core pentium Ds right away as well.

This would follow apples past history. You will see.

 

[oober_freak]

My half serious prediction. In January Apple will scrap their hit product the Powerbook. They'll come out with three iterations of one laptop line, the iBook. The 3 models:

The iBook. The iBook Nano. And the iBook shuffle.

Available in white and black.

(The iBook shuffle will be a revolutionary step, the first laptop to do away with the screen.)

and the nano's screen with scratch a lot

Seriously speaking, I think there are TOO many speculations and too many so-called experts giving their views. Don't be surprised if you see another "speculation" in a week's time.

One thing good though.. in this specualation junk.. every one has, thankfully, spared the powermac line.. bit of an achievement for them