'Intel Based Mac' Rumor Roundup...

[Dr.Gargoyle]

So you are telling me that a recompilation of software is not feasible?

What I am saying is that in science you want it to work hassle free. you don't want to spend time on hardware/software problems. In science second place is first looser.

WHat does that have to do with the initial problem?

Again, it is all about you want it to work hassle free. You need other scientists to be able to do replicate what you did. You dont want to explain that half of the sudy was made under this platform and then you continued on a emulated platform

In know that, but what's the problem here? If they resist to update OS or Software they can't use modern hardware anyway, except in emulation mode. But this is something tehy will be able to do anyway. You don't really think Apple would not find a way to run Software coded for PPC CPUs on their still to be announced new hardware platform?

Again, you want stability. You wait until everything is tested very thoroughly since you don't have time to make a rerun (see second place is first looser) You use (semi) modern hardware, but often (semi) old software.

Another reason why this isn't really an argument. There are the two possibilities then I mentioned before... staying on the old hardware or emulation on new hardware.

I am just telling you how I see this environment and trying to explain how most people reason. I might have been a bit unclear. Most depts use modern hardware but old software.

Still software is a well defined collection of functions. It is highly unlikely that for one platform 1+1=2 and for the other one 1+1=1.9. If that would be the case you could also not trust the results in first place because you culd never be sure if there isn't an error margin you don't know about.

Consider for example the randomizing algorithms in MATHLAB. You need the program to use the EXACT same algoritm all over the studies. moreover, you need the rpogram to be available for other researchers to make the EXACT same run if they doubt your results.

I can still run OS9 programs in my PowerMac... and I am pretty sure that this will still last for a while.

For how long if we are going PPC -> x86? My guess is that if this transition is happening you wont be able to run old OS 9 programs a couple of years down the line.

Every platform is in an endless transition. Actually it was due to Mac OS X that the scientific community gained interest again in the Mac platform. Recompiling for a x86 processor will do the job in 99.99% of the cases and should deliver the same results. As I mentioned before... 1+1=2, no matter if my calculator has an IBM or an Intel/AMD logo...

There are continuous evolutions which is all good and natural. The problem is that Apple seem to be going for discrete jumps. You dont have to emulate to run a old DOS program.

I know about the Pentium bug a few years ago, so don't even mention it!

groovebuster

Ok, I wont mention the Pentium 90, aka 585.9999999999999999, with a faulty floatingpoint processor. Btw, I had a computer with that crappy proc in it...

 

[griz]

Intel and x86

Why does everyone assume that Apples switch to Intel automatically assumes a switch to x86 architecture? Intel is the worlds largest chip maker. Does that mean they need to build x86 chips forever? Could it be entirely possible we will see something of the sorts of motorola 68k to PPC switch? But perhaps it's PPC to some form of Intel NextGen chip. A chip that will provide a smooth transition and a faster solution that walks on AMD.

The only problem with this theory is that Windows currently runs on x86 architecture. If Intel were to provide Apple with a faster technology and ignore Windows (It's largest install base) then Intel too would suffer because Windows could do the same thing and move its operating system to another chip architecture. Oh but wait, Windows can't do that. They have too large of a marketshare to make such a switch. Guess it pays to be the little guy. I'm done speculating. In another 5 hours, the world will know the truth.

 

[Dr.Gargoyle]

Perhaps Apple is buying or merging with Intel?.. watch microsoft stock plummet....

riiiiight, and santa is bringning me a brand new Bentley... I wish

 

[cube]

Perhaps Apple is buying or merging with Intel?.. watch microsoft stock plummet....

buying????

Apple market cap: 31.5 bn
Intel market cap: 168.7 bn


Freescale market cap: 2.7 bn
Apple cash reserves: 6.5 bn

 

[Dr.Gargoyle]

buying????

Apple market cap: 31.5 bn
Intel market cap: 168.7 bn


Freescale market cap: 2.7 bn
Apple cash reserves: 6.5 bn

well, while we are dreaming away, why not do it properly?

 

[groovebuster]

Ok, I wont mention the Pentium 90, aka 585.9999999999999999, with a faulty floatingpoint processor. Btw, I had a computer with that crappy proc in it...

Wasn't that fun?

I still remember how people were scared that maybe some static calculations could have been made with this processor and that maybe bridges and buildings would tumble down...

groovebuster

 

[rashdown_online]

It's On Bloomberg!!!b

Bloomberg Report...

 

[Dr.Gargoyle]

Wasn't that fun?

I still remember how people were scared that maybe some static calculations could have been made with this processor and that maybe bridges and buildings would tumble down...

groovebuster

It was a huge mess...lol Everybody had to rerun everything Still it didn't take that long before it was spotted. I think it was a guy at CERN that found out. I at least got the notice from a friend at CERN.
Sidenote: This was actually how they found out that Excel 5 (I think it was) made faulty calculations. Excel was immediately and completely banned after that. I know a lot of people still bitching about that. Science is very very conservative.

 

[jouster]

......if Intel were to provide Apple with a faster technology and ignore Windows.....

Makes sense. After all, how could they resist the huge financial gain they'd make from designing a brand new architecture and ignoring Windows in favor of Apple's vast sales?

 

[zelmo]

Half of me is extremely excited by the potential system speed increases available if Apple does make the Mac x86-based. Will we finally get a new PowerBook that lives up to it's heritage, instead of a more expensive iBook? Will the Mac finally be a powerful gaming machine? Will the Mac be more price competitive with industry standard processors? Set aside the PC bias and imagine the potential here.

The other half of me is freaking out over the potentially difficult transition from PPC to x86. This will be much more challenging than the transition from 680x0 and the conversion from OS 9, combined. Will software vendors abandon the Mac rather than alter their code? Will people stop buying Macs while we await the transition? How can Mac survive the next 18-24 months?

At the end of the day, as long as I still have Mac OS, with all of it's functionality and security intact, I really don't much care who makes the processor that's inside the box.

I'm more anxious about the journey than I am alarmed about the destination.

 

[iGary]

I prayed this morning that Apple doesn't switch to Intel.

And I'm an atheist.

I'm putting a "Closed for Business" sign on my door at 1:00 p.m. EST.

 

[MacRohde]

Jedis

LOL, I like this quote from the Bloomberg article (link a few posts above):

``Many of Apple's diehard loyalists view Macs and themselves as the Jedi knights versus the evil empire -- Microsoft and Intel,'' Wu wrote.

 

[Lifto]

I don't understand that Apple hasn't focused more on the EDU market, specifically on the science community. Scince community has always by tradition been UNIX. Stability is essential.
If you can get professors use OSX it more or less force the students to run OSX in order to complete their exams.

Well, I am doing molecular biology research at an university, may be I can say something about it. Using Mac or not, it highly depends on what data format you have. For instance, if the DNA sequencer has to output data in Mac format, you have to use Mac. Well, Mac seems to be losing battles after OSX. The biggest sequencer manufacturer has moved to MS. We were trying to follow, but the new software is just too expensive. As a result, we are stuck in Mac...well OS9 to be exact. Other software developers are also moving to windows. They release windows version much faster than OSX version now (if there is any). We do use Unix on our HPC IBM cluster, but the problem is that not too many people know how to use it. I am afraid that the "switch" will kill the classic OS9 support in Intel Mac, then we are done! Also, only one professor in our department uses Mac.

 

[rashdown_online]

If It's True: New Acronyms Needed...

Old:

BinDoze;
Idiot Outside;
BinTel
Devil Inside;

New:

WidowMACer (Works SOOOO well, it can't be put down).
ProzMAC (A well known sleep suppressent brand needs to be taken 'cause the NEW (formaly known as G5) I5 PowerBook makes an appearance, and can't be put down);

Come to think of it: iMac -> IMac...

Any more for any more???

Can have some fun here me thinks

 

[allpar]

there's one more factor - trusted computing which will require special hardware...

[ducking]

 

[Beck446]

buying????

Apple market cap: 31.5 bn
Intel market cap: 168.7 bn


Freescale market cap: 2.7 bn
Apple cash reserves: 6.5 bn

Freescale is 8.3 bn

 

[cube]

LOL, I like this quote from the Bloomberg article (link a few posts above):

``Many of Apple's diehard loyalists view Macs and themselves as the Jedi knights versus the evil empire -- Microsoft and Intel,'' Wu wrote.

I don't want an IBM processor either. I want e700.

 

[cube]

Freescale is 8.3 bn

Ah. OK. They show market cap separately for two classes of stock at money.com, plus I had read Moto was to make about 2bn from the IPO.

 

[iGary]

 

[rashdown_online]

iGary -> IGary

lol...

 

[Dr.Gargoyle]

Well, I am doing molecular biology research at an university, may be I can say something about it. Using Mac or not, it highly depends on what data format you have. For instance, if the DNA sequencer has to output data in Mac format, you have to use Mac. Well, Mac seems to be losing battles after OSX. The biggest sequencer manufacturer has moved to MS. We were trying to follow, but the new software is just too expensive. As a result, we are stuck in Mac...well OS9 to be exact. Other software developers are also moving to windows. They release windows version much faster than OSX version now (if there is any). We do use Unix on our HPC IBM cluster, but the problem is that not too many people know how to use it. I am afraid that the "switch" will kill the classic OS9 support in Intel Mac, then we are done! Also, only one professor in our department uses Mac.

yup, sums it up pretty well...
My guess is that OS9 appl won't be supported in a Mac x86 machine. What are the chances the guys with money at your dept will go for a Apple solution next time.
I am one of very few at my dept with a Mac. I feel like an alien when I begin to talk about Macs. I work with game theory, so most of my stuff (see signature) can be found for Macs. Since I am a theorist I don't run these huge data sets, but if I did I would be worried right now.

 

[rdowns]

Wall Street says...

Shares of Apple Computer Inc. were up 2.3 percent before the bell, ahead of Chief Executive Officer Steve Jobs' keynote speech at the company's Worldwide Developers Conference on Monday.

Apple shares gained 88 cents to $39.12 on Inet, up from their $38.24 close on Friday on the Nasdaq.

 

[Dr.Gargoyle]

Old:

BinDoze;
Idiot Outside;
BinTel
Devil Inside;

New:

WidowMACer (Works SOOOO well, it can't be put down).
ProzMAC (A well known sleep suppressent brand needs to be taken 'cause the NEW (formaly known as G5) I5 PowerBook makes an appearance, and can't be put down);

Come to think of it: iMac -> IMac...

Any more for any more???

Can have some fun here me thinks

THIS
IS
NOT
FUN

 

[Dr.Gargoyle]

4 hours and 20 min

This WWDC looks like is going to be one of those events you will remember for a very long time.
I just wonder how I will think looking back on this?
I fear the worst...

 

[Lifto]

My guess is that OS9 appl won't be supported in a Mac x86 machine. What are the chances the guys with money at your dept will go for a Apple solution next time.
I am one of very few at my dept with a Mac. I feel like an alien when I begin to talk about Macs. I work with game theory, so most of my stuff (see signature) can be found for Macs. Since I am a theorist I don't run these huge data sets, but if I did I would be worried right now.

If OS9 won't be supported, we will keep using those Macs until they died. We just don't have money to switch. I don't think any people will switch to Mac in our department under this situation. Actually, I told this news (or rumor?) to a student today. Well, I was almost be killed instantly because I helped her to switch three months ago!

We do need to handle large data set for our researches. While the HPC needs two weeks to finish the job, G5 takes only 5 days. We never try on PC though, since we don't believe it won't lockup for so long...