The bigger issue is that said patch will result in a 5-30% drop in CPU speed. It may not be a faulty airbag but it’s also not what was advertised on the box. It’s big trouble for Intel.
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Intel Chips Have Memory Access Design Flaw and Fix Could Lead to Performance Drop
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I've seen it come up numerous times, but still see it as a backwards and stupid move. Using a series processors processors alongside intel in macs makes sense but not this. If they move the Mac range to Arm they may as well stop making Macs.
Just like you don’t have to prove faulty airbags will absolutely fail, you probably wouldn’t have to prove, since Intel has stated itself 5-30% deficiency, the processors will reach that threshold in real world use. Just the threshold possibility?
What’s worse is it seems to me that the more optimized the OS, The more noticeable the effect. If you never had to page out the kernel before, having to do it every time will be a comparatively huge penalty.
Looks like I'm never updating again >.> I was wanting to go back to Mavericks anyway to get away from the flat iOS Windows Metro design we have now.
Why? Just because they can’t run Windows? That’s not the mac’s prime purpose. And most users don’t care about the cpu architecture and couldn’t name three differences between ARM and x86-64.
It means early obselenece of the current installed base for no reason, it means years of crap software and emulation.
Loosing over 10 years worth of Apple software, loosing all windows software compatibility (and yeah it does matter to people). It took 3 years for Apple to get MacOS right for intel. The last transition was not fun at all, but we got better performance and the ability to run pretty much every bit of software from one machine.
Turning the Mac into giant useless iPhones with limited long term software support is a major step backwards. As I said, they may as well stop making Macs.
ARM? LOL... yeah good luck doing anything with that pathetic processor. Im sure video editors, 3d animators, etc will jump at that.
Perhaps just AMD since ARM64 requires patching too:
https://lwn.net/Articles/740393/
AMD is indeed not affected:
https://lkml.org/lkml/2017/12/27/2
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So when Apple has one screw up it's time to go to Android and Windows?
One buggy iOS release; or one hardware flaw and we should all flee Apple?
I didn't think so. The bias of some people is just astounding.
The current installed base is not obsoleted by an architecture change. Look at the 68k to PowerPC and PowerPC to x86 and x86 to amd64 transitions for proof. Using the same cpu doesn’t make a Mac a “giant iPhone.” That’s just stupid. A cpu is just one part of what defines the machine. Using an arm gives Apple a way to get past intel’s stagnation, opens up the ecosystem to much more software, allows new formfactors, etc. And all that is lost is windows, and some old software may get left on the shore (to be replaced by developers who will flock to the new ecosystem).
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Entirely implementation-dependent, seems to me. Apple has an architecture license and they do their own micro architecture.
I'm very curious as to how much of a hit this will make on those machines without a dedicated graphics card. My 2017 MacBook Pro will probably be fine if I run it in dedicated mode, but I'll wager a guess that my new Surface Laptop won't be. . . Wonderful news!
Are you serious? Every Intel chip sold over the past 10 years has built-in, physical security flaws? This is huge! Why the F are you giving Intel a pass here? It’s not the same as an airbag, but it’s really, really bad. And in someways worse. Airbags are almost never used. CPU’s are used millions of times a day, with private, secret information that keeps people’s homes safe, life savings secure, even government information out of the hands of our enemies... these chips are intertwined with almost every aspect of human life and society—the security implications are potentially disastrous.
Your reply makes zero sense. Even comparing Intel’s hardware to Apple’s software is specious. When there’s a flaw in Apple’s OS’s or software they often patch it within weeks. And they certainly don’t repeat the flaw for ten years! This is a massive problem. Giving Intel a pass because “heck, nobody’s perfect” means you either own a **** ton of Intel stock or you’re on the PR team.
[doublepost=1514956957][/doublepost]Someone get the class action lawsuit machine warmed up. This ones gonna be a doosey!
It will be interesting to see the actual real world impact. 5-30 percent is a very large range. 5% is unnoticeable for nearly all users. 30% would definitely be noticeable for most.
Edit: Reading from a Linux developer working on the patch: "... 5% is a good round number for what is typical. The worst we have seen is a roughly 30% ..."
Edit: Reading from a Linux developer working on the patch: "... 5% is a good round number for what is typical. The worst we have seen is a roughly 30% ..."
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What the ****!!! Massive class action suit coming against Intel for sure. I could tolerate 5%, maybe, but a 30% performance hit? Get the hell out of here with that!
I suppose the performance hit will be based on how well Apples patch of MacOS is? Knowing Apple lately, that does not bode well for us MacOS users!
I suppose the performance hit will be based on how well Apples patch of MacOS is? Knowing Apple lately, that does not bode well for us MacOS users!
Good point--both Intel and AMD implement x86-64, but only Intel's processors have this flaw. Hope that means that Apple's ARM processors are not affected, too.
Yeah let’s make it into a personal argument. I’m typing on an iPhone with two bandaided sliced fingers and a thumb, so my typing ablity isn’t exactly great.
Both terrible examples proving my point. PPC Macs sold into 2006 and got a rubbish 3 years of software support and immediate releases of software that was incompatible. Not interested in going there and doing that again. 68k Macs were also abandoned in about the same amount of time.
A complete loss of software compatibility makes the Mac into a giant iPhone.
Apple have zero experience in making desktop class processors, how exactly are they going to be magically better at it than intel? Complaining about intel’s stagnation is a complete joke. Apple are one of the laziest companies out there, they don’t bother updating macs even when there are updated chips available, so saying that Intel stagnation is a reason for a platform shift is a joke.
Developers are not going to flock to write new software, we’d all have to deal with crap stopover emulation, on underpowered Arm chips. Going to arm looses software compatibility. Gaining access to touch optimised iOS apps is not a benefit that would outweigh the loss of software compatibility. They could achieve the same through arm co processors anyway.
Whoa!!! This could be really big. How has this been exploited so far already, by powers that be. I have a lot of respect for people who manage to dig out flaws at such a fundamental level. Took them a while with this one, though.
Yeah let’s make it into a personal argument. I’m typing on an iPhone with two bandaided sliced fingers and a thumb, so my typing ablity isn’t exactly great.
Both terrible examples proving my point. PPC Macs sold into 2006 and got a rubbish 3 years of software support and immediate releases of software that was incompatible. Not interested in going there and doing that again. 68k Macs were also abandoned in about the same amount of time.
A complete loss of software compatibility makes the Mac into a giant iPhone.
Apple have zero experience in making desktop class processors, how exactly are they going to be magically better at it than intel? Complaining about intel’s stagnation is a complete joke. Apple are one of the laziest companies out there, they don’t bother updating macs even when there are updated chips available, so saying that Intel stagnation is a reason for a platform shift is a joke.
Developers are not going to flock to write new software, we’d all have to deal with crap stopover emulation, on underpowered Arm chips. Going to arm looses software compatibility. Gaining access to touch optimised iOS apps is not a benefit that would outweigh the loss of software compatibility. They could achieve the same through arm co processors anyway.
Oops. You’re right. I don’t know how AMD slipped in there. corrected.
As much as I hate Intel, I’m sure the lions share of the settlement will go to some rich punk law firm and we’ll be stuck holding $5 rebates on our next Intel CPU purchase...