Intel Core 2 Duo Chips Announced

[Eidorian]

There is every reason to just wait until August 7, but I'll chance my prediction for an update tomorrow. Who's with me!

It's a Tuesday. I have a habit of saying "See you next Tuesday..."

 

[Cowinacape]

With the possible introduction of the iPhone, movie downloads, Leopard preview, and true video iPods, in addition to new Mac Pros and possibly other updated Macs with the Core 2 Duos, I'm putting my money on a product announcement tomorrow.

Steve's going to spend the keynote telling developers about what they'll be able to do with Leopard, it is a developers conference after all. I'll go out on a limb and say Mac Pros tomorrow or perhaps at the very least, new Xserves. There is every reason to just wait until August 7, but I'll chance my prediction for an update tomorrow. Who's with me!

Put me down for that one two, I've got a handfull of cash just burning a hole in my pocket waiting for something to be announced! 😀

 

[Multimedia]

Core 2 Is The Term For 2006-2008 Processors, Core 3 Is In 2008-2010

Much faster? Benchmarks so far only say about 20% faster at the same clock speed. You just have to decide if paying a 10% restocking fee and being without your computer for who knows how long (I REALLY doubt new iMacs at the show, probably just towers and maybe MBP's) is worth that speed boost. And core 2 duo won't be "the latest for two years". Supposedly intel is going to ship quad cores by the end of this year! Not sure why you think that intel is suddenly going to stop making improvements.

Symantic misunderstanding. My understanding of the meaning of the term "Core 2" is the next generation of new processors that will last until "Core 3" near the end of 2008. Multi cores and other improvements on the initial Core 2 offerings will be incremental differences not RADICAL as will be the case when the switch to Core 3 happens near the end of 2008. So you are completely misunderstanding my meaning Milo. Core 2 does not mean how many cores. It means this next generation of processors from now until the later part of 2008 when Core 3 will be introduced. It's in the Intel Processor Road Map that some here are unwilling to read and learn.

Personally, at this point if I hadn't bought I'd wait, but if did I'd keep it.

Personally, I would not keep it.

The educational buying season already happened...and apple was just in time with the macbook. They just came out a couple months ago and are still selling like hotcakes, they didn't miss anything.

Apple didn't miss anything. But the educational community just missed out on getting a new set of 64-bit Macs instead of the 32-bit ones they got instead.

The next update to Core isn't the new chipset, it's the four core versions, cloverton and kentsfield. And those are supposed to ship before the end of this year, which would beat Vista handily.

Right. And they are still Core 2 processors as will be their eight and sixteen core follow ons.

Did you read his post? He said he meant the next update to Core, whether that's called Core 3 or not (any processor that goes beyond Core 2 because I don't know if they'll call it "Core 3"). He just used "core 3" because he didn't know what the real name for the next gen is.

Yes I read his post and posted something that I thought would help everyone understand that Core 2 is here to stay for the next two years. Just because Intel makes tweaks and expands the core counts to their Core 2 line does not mean we turn around and call each tweak and core count boost Core 3, Core 4, Core 5 etc. They will all still be Core 2 processors until near the end of 2008 albiet with different names like Kentsfield, Clovertown, Tigerton etc:

These are all Core 2 Processors

Laptops
Merom, first eighth-generation notebook chip, 65 nm, dual-core, 2–4 MiB L2 cache (Released on July 27, 2006)
Penryn, dual-core, 45 nm shrink of Merom, 3–6 MiB L2
Perryville, single-core, 45 nm mobile and desktop processor, 2 MiB L2

Desktops
Conroe, first eighth-generation desktop chip, 65 nm, dual-core, 4 MiB L2 cache (Released on July 27, 2006)
Allendale, dual-core, cut-down Conroe with 2 MiB L2
Millville, single-core, cut-down Allendale with 1 MiB L2
Wolfdale, dual-core, 45 nm shrink of Allendale, with 3 MiB L2
Kentsfield, quad-core MCM, consists of two Conroes, with 2 × 4 MiB L2 (8 MiB L2)
Yorkfield, eight-core MCM, 45 nm, 12 MiB L2, successor to Kentsfield
Ridgefield, dual-core, 45 nm shrink of Conroe, with 6 MiB L2
Perryville, single-core, 45 nm mobile and desktop processor, 2 MiB L2

Servers and workstations
Woodcrest, first eighth-generation server and workstation chip, 65 nm, dual-core, 4 MiB L2 cache (Released on June 26, 2006)
Clovertown, quad-core MCM, consists of two Woodcrests, with 2 × 4 MiB L2
Tigerton, quad-core MCM. MP-capable version of Clovertown.
Harpertown, either a dual-core, 45 nm shrink of Woodcrest, or an eight-core, 45 nm MCM with 12 MiB L2
Dunnington, four to thirty-two cores, successor to Tigerton

I was trying to be helpful by explaining that to everyone.

Possible initial supply constraints...because they decided to ship the chip a month EARLY? That's not remotely like moto.

Definitely. They just bundled their Merom announcement in with the Conroe announcement and while they may be shipping a little early, it's probably at a trickle rather than the volume they aspire to in future months.

 

[milo]

Symantic misunderstanding. My understanding of the meaning of the term "Core 2" is the next generation of new processors that will last until "Core 3" near the end of 2008. Multi cores and other improvements on the initial Core 2 offerings will be incremental differences not RADICAL as will be the case when the switch to Core 3 happens near the end of 2008. So you are completely misunderstanding my meaning Milo. Core 2 does not mean how many cores. It means this next generation of processors from now until the later part of 2008 when Core 3 will be introduced. It's in the Intel Processor Road Map that some here are unwilling to read and learn.

No, I think you *completely* misunderstand what I said.

I never said Core 2 or Core 3 means number of cores.

I didn't make any claims whether the next chips will be "radical" or "incremental" updates.

I didn't even mention Core 3 in the bit you quoted!

I only said that core 2 duo won't be the last update for two years. We will have new chips later this year, the quad core versions. And they most certainly won't be called "Core 2 duo"! I don't know if intel has announced names, but I'd guess it will be something along the lines of "Core 2 Quad".

Understand?

As for the educational community, for the most part they missed out on 64 bit PC's as well as macs. Seems silly to blame Apple when intel is the one who decides when chips are released. Appleinsider is saying the first merom laptops won't actually ship until late august, too late for virtually all educational buyers. And by then, we'll probably have a merom update for the MBP - if 64 bit is that crucial, nothing is stopping schools from buying the MBP with merom.

And they are still Core 2 processors as will be their eight and sixteen core follow ons.

I never said otherwise. I was just pointing out that there will in fact be newer intel chips shipping before Vista is out.

 

[uv23]

Wow, you're pulling out my deep cuts with your sig. They never did fit a G5 in a notebook, I guess that was my intention with that quote. The G4 was never a great chip. It ran hot and the only way to make it faster was to make it run hotter, Apple needed a new chip and they knew it. Because they couldn't find a producer of efficient PPC chips, they switched to Intel, and I don't think anyone saw that coming.

Sometimes, chip makers move backwards to an architecture that works. Look at Intel's latest chips, they're an evolution of the Pentium M architecture and a departure from what previously was their "best" and fastest, the Pentium 4.

Ha!! 🙂 I actually just keep your quote because i thought it was hilarious. Hope you don't mind.

 

[MacinDoc]

Why would Apple miss the educational buying season? They just released a brand new educational iMac this month. eMacs don't need or want the latest and greatest, fastest chips, they need the most bang for their buck. I believe that the $899 educational iMac fits that description to the letter.

I was thinking of the laptops typically purchased by university students prior to starting fall classes, not desktop purchases by schools and school boards. If you want to sell to university students, how do you convince them to buy Core Duo Macbooks priced the same as HP's Core 2 Duo notebooks will be when they come out? IMO, university students are more concerned with getting the most for their meagre funds that what OS they are able to run.

 

[greenstork]

I was thinking of the laptops typically purchased by university students prior to starting fall classes, not desktop purchases by schools and school boards. If you want to sell to university students, how do you convince them to buy Core Duo Macbooks priced the same as HP's Core 2 Duo notebooks will be when they come out? IMO, university students are more concerned with getting the most for their meagre funds that what OS they are able to run.

I'm sure that core 2 duo Mac laptops will be out alongside offerings from HP and Dell, there has been no indication (or prior history AFAIK) that Apple will hold back on offering new laptops after new chips have been announced. As for making its way into the MacBook as well as the MacBook Pro, well I wouldn't hold your breath. I think the same product differentiation would also apply to high-end and low-end HP systems.

 

[ChickenSwartz]

So I don't know if this has been mentioned on here yet, but Dell and Gateway are now offering the Core 2 Duo and Core 2 Duo Extreme processors in desktop models.

Million dollar question:
When will we see, as Intel puts it, "the world's best processor" in a Mac?
(291 million tranistors at 40% less power than Pentium, holy crap)

Intel had predicted that we would begin seeing Core 2 Duo in desktops at the begining of August. They are atleast a day early.

Intel predicted that we would begin seeing Caore 2 Duo mobile processor units at the end of August. Will they be early? Perhaps August 7th-ish?

 

[Multimedia]

Less Than A Week Now - Patience

So I don't know if this has been mentioned on here yet, but Dell and Gateway are now offering the Core 2 Duo and Core 2 Duo Extreme processors in desktop models.

Million dollar question:
When will we see, as Intel puts it, "the world's best processor" in a Mac?
(291 million tranistors at 40% less power than Pentium, holy crap)

Intel had predicted that we would begin seeing Core 2 Duo in desktops at the begining of August. They are atleast a day early.

Intel predicted that we would begin seeing Caore 2 Duo mobile processor units at the end of August. Will they be early? Perhaps August 7th-ish?

Patience. All will be revealed by Paris September 12 Apple Expo. Less than a week now Monday morning August 7 SteveNote in San Francisco will tell us the top of the line part next Monday morning. 🙂

 

[Half Glass]

No News Today?

I guess I will be waiting another week, but please...don't make me wait until September!!

 

[twoodcc]

I guess I will be waiting another week, but please...don't make me wait until September!!

me too!😉

 

[fastlane1588]

I guess I will be waiting another week, but please...don't make me wait until September!!

i agree school starts aug 28th for me which means now i have to bring my dads dell insipron off to college while i wait for the new mbp....i have to wait, with something this big so close, but man is it hard!

 

[cozart]

the day's not over yet! it's only 9am in Cupertino right now.

 

[MacinDoc]

I'm sure that core 2 duo Mac laptops will be out alongside offerings from HP and Dell, there has been no indication (or prior history AFAIK) that Apple will hold back on offering new laptops after new chips have been announced. As for making its way into the MacBook as well as the MacBook Pro, well I wouldn't hold your breath. I think the same product differentiation would also apply to high-end and low-end HP systems.

Mr original point was that Intel will be selling its Core2 Duo chips for the same prices as the current Core Duo chips, and will be dropping the Core Duo prices. Other laptop manufacturers will either put the Core2 into their current machines for the current prices, or lower the prices for machines that have the original Yonah chips. So, will Apple do the same, or will it risk the inroads it has been starting to make in market share?

 

[UmaThurman]

I've read through this thread, and found everything quite interesting. I'll be leaving for school soon and wanted to purchase a macbook when a friend advised me to wait for the release of macbooks or macbook pros with the new core 2 duo proccessors. I've never used a mac, but I really want to purchase one and give it a try. I've heard nothing but wonderful things about them from my roomate. This might be a really really stupid question, but will I get my hands on one of these with the new proccessors by mid sept? I'll be leaving for school in less than two weeks, leaving me withouto a computer at school for about a month.

 

[Multimedia]

Apple Will Put Core 2 Duo In Everything Before Thanksgiving

Mr original point was that Intel will be selling its Core2 Duo chips for the same prices as the current Core Duo chips, and will be dropping the Core Duo prices. Other laptop manufacturers will either put the Core2 into their current machines for the current prices, or lower the prices for machines that have the original Yonah chips. So, will Apple do the same, or will it risk the inroads it has been starting to make in market share?

I think Apple Will Put Core 2 Duo In Everything Before Thanksgiving. There are plenty of other differences between MacBook and MacBook Pro including a 2GHz ceiling speed in the MB while MBP will get a bump to 2.33GHz. Doubtful Apple will wait beyond November to make the whole line 64-bit Core 2.

 

[63dot]

core 2 duo in macintosh pro desktops by january 2007

not august at WWDC, though that would be nice

i have been here many years and have seen too much wishful thinking to expect apple inc to keep up with the much bigger and richer pc companies who get the great video cards from ati and nvidia a few months sooner, among other things

but it will be worth the wait for the mac desktop pro to have the core 2 duo

i cannot see the new pro mac desktops using the regular version 1 core duo...and if it came out, to be a good value for the money

WAIT

 

[Snowy_River]

core 2 duo in macintosh pro desktops by january 2007

not august at WWDC, though that would be nice

i have been here many years and have seen too much wishful thinking to expect apple inc to keep up with the much bigger and richer pc companies who get the great video cards from ati and nvidia a few months sooner, among other things

but it will be worth the wait for the mac desktop pro to have the core 2 duo

i cannot see the new pro mac desktops using the regular version 1 core duo...and if it came out, to be a good value for the money

WAIT

Amazingly pessimistic. You say that you've been around for many years, but when have you seen a processor released by the manufacturer (Motorola, IBM, now Intel) when it wasn't immediately put into a Mac? Was it a few months from the release of the Core before it was available in a Mac? No. It was immediate. And processors from Motorola and IBM were available immediately (indeed, Apple was often the announcer of the new chip being available in those instances).

 

[greenstork]

Mr original point was that Intel will be selling its Core2 Duo chips for the same prices as the current Core Duo chips, and will be dropping the Core Duo prices. Other laptop manufacturers will either put the Core2 into their current machines for the current prices, or lower the prices for machines that have the original Yonah chips. So, will Apple do the same, or will it risk the inroads it has been starting to make in market share?

Core 2 duo laptops have neither been released by Apple or HP, Dell and the like, so I'm not sure how you can make any assumptions about pricing vs. the competition. We simply don't know how they will stack up, but I would guess there will be some sort of Apple premium, but nothing outrageously overpriced I'd imagine since we really are comparing apples to er... apples, in terms of chips.

 

[greenstork]

core 2 duo in macintosh pro desktops by january 2007

not august at WWDC, though that would be nice

i have been here many years and have seen too much wishful thinking to expect apple inc to keep up with the much bigger and richer pc companies who get the great video cards from ati and nvidia a few months sooner, among other things

but it will be worth the wait for the mac desktop pro to have the core 2 duo

i cannot see the new pro mac desktops using the regular version 1 core duo...and if it came out, to be a good value for the money

WAIT

Apple's not dumb, they're not waiting months or even weeks after a new chip release to release their pro desktop line. Do you know much business they would lose?

Imagine walking into a developers conference and telling all the eager attendees that they're going to have write, test, and debug all of their new fancy Universal Binary software on laptops and consumer machines, fat chance. 😎

 

[3CCD]

Really stoked to see how fast everything is moving. I'm definitely holding off after Paris but I'll tell you I can't wait to feel the change working with Final Cut from my single 1.6 GHz G5 to MacBook Pro running a Core 2 Duo.

 

[boncellis]

Yes, mine's about 5" high, which is tall enough so it would probably need some low hand grips or something. I'm not an engineer for these things, so I'm not even sure it would fit everything, but it looks like it might.
...
Sure, I'd love to see some more pretty pictures of what we're dreaming about. It's a little like holding a lottery ticket in your hand, waiting for the numbers to be drawn, visualizing what you're going to buy with the winnings. 🙂

-Dan​

You and Snowy should do this sort of thing more often, I think it's awesome to be able to put a design to the description, and both of you are certainly talented in doing so.

Design probably weighs into my appreciation for any product more than most people in this forum, but it's cool to see what Apple could do with future products. Anyone have Mr. Ive's email address? 😉

Keep up the good work!

PS: I think most people would agree that talking about new designs is much more constructive than the ensuing name-calling over integrated graphics. Kudos.

 

[MacinDoc]

Core 2 duo laptops have neither been released by Apple or HP, Dell and the like, so I'm not sure how you can make any assumptions about pricing vs. the competition. We simply don't know how they will stack up, but I would guess there will be some sort of Apple premium, but nothing outrageously overpriced I'd imagine since we really are comparing apples to er... apples, in terms of chips.

I was referring to Intel's pricing. Intel has already announced that Core2 chips will sell for the same prices as their equivalent Core predecessors. Now, if Intel supplies a Core2 to Dell for the same price as it previously charged for a Core, do you think Dell will bump its price up? In the cutthoat PC market, I think that is unlikely. The question is, when Core2 machines come out, will Apple keep up with the competition? To do so, it will either have to upgrade the MacBooks or drop their price.

I'm not saying that Apple won't do this, I'm just trying to show that keeping the current Core chips in the MacBooks in order to differentiate them from the MBPs will handicap the MacBooks compared to their real competition, unless Apple drops the price (which is unlikely, since Apple avoids the bare bones discount market).

 

[Downdivx]

so i'm having a difficult time deciding what to do.

North Carolina's sales tax holiday is this coming weekend, just a couple of days before WWDC (of course!). i had every intention of buying a MacBook Pro during the holiday, but now i have no idea what to do.

assuming there's not a silent release of an updated MBP tomorrow...

will waiting be worth losing the 7.5% (somewhere between $150 and $200 depending on how i customize it) that i'll have to pay if i don't get it during the holiday?

should i go ahead and get it during tax free weekend in case there's not even an announcement at WWDC? or, if there is an announcement, should i go ahead and get it and then return it within the 14-day window, losing the 10% restocking fee.

so many options and this first-time mac buyer doesn't know what to do!

I've been having the exact same delima, but I think I've finally found a way around it! The 10% restocking fee is actually an open box fee. You can purchase your choice of MBP this weekend Tax free and return it unopened if the new MBPs arrive in the next 14 days.

Now that I've figured that out, my only remaining question is should I get a 15" or 17"?

W

 

[Snowy_River]

I was referring to Intel's pricing. Intel has already announced that Core2 chips will sell for the same prices as their equivalent Core predecessors. Now, if Intel supplies a Core2 to Dell for the same price as it previously charged for a Core, do you think Dell will bump its price up? In the cutthoat PC market, I think that is unlikely. The question is, when Core2 machines come out, will Apple keep up with the competition? To do so, it will either have to upgrade the MacBooks or drop their price.

I'm not saying that Apple won't do this, I'm just trying to show that keeping the current Core chips in the MacBooks in order to differentiate them from the MBPs will handicap the MacBooks compared to their real competition, unless Apple drops the price (which is unlikely, since Apple avoids the bare bones discount market).

So, anyone remember what the price point on the iBook was before the went to the Intel MacBook? I'll give you a hint, the price went up. So, if they have a choice between keeping the current price point and upgrading the processor immediately, or cutting the price point, which do you think they'd like to do?

My guess is that the MacBook will see a price break taking it back down to the price point of the iBook (or possibly even lower 😱 !).

However, that's only my guess. I, like most others here, have no inside information, only guesses (some educated, others less so). 😉