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The world is running out of nanometers. Perhaps Intel hit its wall at 7nm but everyone else will be looking down the barrel of the same gun when they aim for 3nm.
The end of the ever shrinking world is near
Gallium nitride may become the “new silicon” for that reason.
 
Intel is American, ARM is European, TSMC is from China/Taiwan. You can't just buy them out. Just like China can't just buy Lockheed Martin, and Apple can't just buy Samsung.

The Japanese bought ARM...

Also, the Government of Abu Dhabi bought AMD and IBM's chipmaking operations, the latter of which makes classified chips for the US Government.
 
Yeah this decade is going to be boring in terms of process for silicon. At this rate it will be 2030 before Intel hits 3nm, if that is even possible for them. Node size will be one dimension that manufacturers have fully optimized for, at least on current silicon processes (Gallium is interesting, but I think we are 5-10 years out until we see commercialization in that space).

On the flip side, there is still a lot of performance improvement to be had, especially in regards to IPC and instruction set optimization (like SIMD type instructions), and I think this is where ARM is going to shine. Node size and raw clock speed will become even more irrelevant. I get a lot of flak online and in person when I say this, but I think this will be the decade where ARM shines and takes out x86_64. Apple is already hopping on the bus, and we are only in the first year.

Once ARM starts to make true inroads in the server market (Look at Amazon's Graviton2 to start) and I think x86_64 CPU's days are numbered.

Arn’t we all waiting for the big quantum computing breakthrough, where most of our devices give the harder tasks to some quantum god-computer in the cloud, while our divices are just some kind of terminal? How is that not exciting? Are we not at the cusp of the world totally changing?
 
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Arn’t we all waiting for the big quantum computing breakthrough, where most of our devices give the harder tasks to some quantum god-computer in the cloud, while our divices are just some kind of terminal? How is that not exciting? Are we not at the cusp of the world totally changing?

I hear it's due right about the time we get fusion power.

Only slightly kidding. From what I understand, not all stuff can just be thrown at a quantum computer, even if we can build them. It's not an either/or thing - regular computing isn't going anywhere, even if quantum becomes mainstream.
 
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What are you talking about ? ARM is RISC PowerPC... it never went away, maybe the other one did.. but PPC never died, it just REINCARNATED into ARM.. PPC won, intel lost.. And so proud of that fact.

PowerPC is RISC, likewise
ARM is RISC, but
ARM != PowerPC.

An apt metaphor would be,
French is a Romance language, likewise
Italian is a Romance language, but
Italian != French.

When it comes to naming it Apple Si vs ARM, it's more subjective. Saying a chip is ARM can have multiple meanings. An ARM chip can be a CPU designed by ARM that executes the ARM-ISA. ( ARM gives you blueprint, you buy the materials and assemble it ). Or you can design your own CPU blueprint that executes the ARM-ISA.

To extend the blueprint metaphor, the ARM-ISA defines the exterior of a house, but not the interior floor plan. An ARM designed CPU blueprint includes all of the interior details as well. The inside of an Apple designed ARM will look very different from the inside of a Qualcomm or Samsung ARM. And on top of that, Apple has also modified the exterior some. They added a porch on the back and wave pool in the back yard.

Calling it Apple ARM draws attention to the superficial similarities. Calling it Apple Si draws attention to these differentiating features. Calling it Apple PPC is just wrong.
 
What are you talking about ? ARM is RISC PowerPC... it never went away, maybe the other one did.. but PPC never died, it just REINCARNATED into ARM.. PPC won, intel lost.. And so proud of that fact.

ARM is not PowerPC.

Other than both ARM and PowerPC architectures being Reduced Instruction Set machines; there is no relationship between them.

Indeed the first ARM processors, released in the late 80s, predate PowerPC by at least five years.
 
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Intel is American, ARM is European, TSMC is from China/Taiwan. You can't just buy them out. Just like China can't just buy Lockheed Martin, and Apple can't just buy Samsung.

Unfortunately ARM is technically Japanese now – as it was purchased by Softbank. God knows why the UK government permitted that sale. The UK needs to keep such industries to remain viable. Morons. :-( The UK gov would be better off buying ARM as an investment rather than their purchase of the lame One Web satellite network provider – which will have terrible difficulties competing with SpaceX's Starlink service...

Regardless though; just because a company resides in a different territory it doesn't mean you can't buy them if you have sufficient capital – unless the governments do block the sale on monopoly or national security grounds.... (I think it would be unlikely the Japanese gov would block the sale of ARM by Softbank to Intel.)
 
Delayed again? This is so bad for Intel, they used to be world leaders in semi-conductors and now they're way behind the competition.
 
My 16” plugged into my 4K at 60hz will sit the Radeon pulling 19 watts just looking at an idle desktop - above 80 degrees out and I’m looking at least 3000k rpm. Very normal experience with the 16” (and 15s before it), I don’t think the CPU is to blame here however

I must be quite lucky in this regard. I hear complaints from other users; however, my 16" MacBook Pro is completely silent connected to a TB display with a resolution of 5440x2160. Even when I edit my videos, aside from the times I export and apply some complex object tracking titles, the fans are barely audible.
 
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What are you talking about ? ARM is RISC PowerPC... it never went away, maybe the other one did.. but PPC never died, it just REINCARNATED into ARM.. PPC won, intel lost.. And so proud of that fact.

ARM is not PowerPC.

Other than both ARM and PowerPC architectures being Reduced Instruction Set machines; there is no relationship between them.

Indeed the first ARM processors, released in the late 80s, predate PowerPC by at least five years.

There are two major schools of RISC processors, Stanford RISC and Berkeley RISC.

POWER/PowerPC, MIPS and DEC Alpha are Stanford RISC architectures. If you know how to write assembly for one, the others are nearly identical.

SPARC, Am29000, i960, and to a certain extent Itanium are Berkeley RISC CPUs. They are notably different from Stanford RISC, particularly in how they handle registers.

Classic 32-bit ARM is weird. It's sort-of-RISC. It was because ARM was designed for a low-end home computer, not a high-end workstation like the others were. For example, it's missing half the registers, and uses conditional instructions. This design served them well in embedded systems but started to have problems when CPUs got more advanced.

64-bit ARM was cleaned up and is basically like the rest of Stanford RISC architectures.

So yes, A64 and PowerPC are related because they trace their history to Stanford, and ultimately to US military funded research that created RISC concepts at both schools.
 
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Move over, Intel. You're the 2020 version of the PowerPC. Can't wait for ARM. Typing this on a 16" MBP with blaring fans just because an external monitor is plugged in. :rolleyes:

I don't think you can pin that issue on Intel; that looks to be due to an issue (defect?) with the AMD GPU; although of course those too will be gone in the Apple Silicon Macs.

The 2020 16" MBPs with the (crazy expensive!) 5600M GPUs don't seem to have this issue – I doubt due to the greater performance on these cards but more that AMD realised there was an issue in the earlier GPUs and resolved it in the later 5600M.

My 2012 15" MBP (ancient!) handles external monitors silently. I'm sorry to hear of your situation; I really couldn't cope with that as I'm always using external monitors. If I were in your position I'd try to return the laptop to Apple as defective; replacing it with either a 2020 13" MBP (10th Gen) or – if you have the cash – a 16" with the 5600M.
 
Maybe. I'm not convinced that we'll see high-powered ARM desktop CPUs very soon. Being able to produce 5nm chips doesn't necessarily mean that they are stable at high frequencies. I think it's more likely that Apple will start at the low end of performance with ARM. Besides, Apple is a very small player on the desktop and not really present in the server market. AMD is Intel's main competitor.
Yeah from what I've read mass produced high performance/high power chips on TSMC's 5nm are targeted for the end of 2021.
Currently TSMC's 5nm is suited only for small mobile chips. It will take a couple of years until we are going to see big desktop chips on 5nm.

AMD is actually smart to stick to 7nm for now and work on improving their architectures. This will allow them to compete in volume with Intel in 2021, which is not an easy thing to do.
 
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What are you talking about ? ARM is RISC PowerPC... it never went away, maybe the other one did.. but PPC never died, it just REINCARNATED into ARM.. PPC won, intel lost.. And so proud of that fact.

ARM is not PowerPC but you are right that PowerPC never went away. Power9 workstations are sold for reassuringly expensive prices(like the MacPro) and used for everything from oil to engineering and DNA mapping. Power10 is due soon and these are what Apple would have been using if not for Intel. Non of the Power chips from the G5 to the Power9 could fit in a laptop, they just kept going more towards the specialised workstation market.
 
Their architecture is top notch. The only reason that AMD has been able to catch up (and overtake in some areas) is TSMC's superior process node. I bet the upcoming Intel 10nm Cores will clobber AMD 7nm in per-core performance.

I disagree. Zen architecture was competitive from the beginning. AMD caught up the moment they launched their first Ryzen processors.
 
Move over, Intel. You're the 2020 version of the PowerPC. Can't wait for ARM. Typing this on a 16" MBP with blaring fans just because an external monitor is plugged in. :rolleyes:
I'm also excited for ARM Macs.
I have a 16inch MBP as well and I recently saw this article:

My fans aren't kicking up all the time now that I stopped charging from the left.
 
Even if it is laughable cause Apple is leaving them it might affect intel Macs in the pipeline. Those who needs a new computer but can’t jump on arm early will be out of luck. Or Apple will push the transition quicker like last time
 
Not sure where you read that but I can tell you from direct first hand experience that this timeline is absolutely not true.

Yeah from what I've read mass produced high performance/high power chips on TSMC's 5nm are targeted for the end of 2021.
Currently TSMC's 5nm is suited only for small mobile chips. It will take a couple of years until we are going to see big desktop chips on 5nm.
 
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Even if it is laughable cause Apple is leaving them it might affect intel Macs in the pipeline. Those who needs a new computer but can’t jump on arm early will be out of luck. Or Apple will push the transition quicker like last time
The performance of every new gen of intel chips are not leaps and bounds above the previous gen. Most of the gains were just few percentage points. Heck, I'd argue that you won't see much real life difference between gen 8, 9 and 10 unless you' re running benchmarks. Many of the enhancements of recent Macs actually come form the T2 chip.

I'd say those that need a new Mac and must have intel can safely buy the current releases in the next year or two. I doubt you will be missing much.
 
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When you talk about something that it isnt even released....from developers ARM is the future...one chip for all platforms...who still think that x86 is still the future...its clear it doesnt work in the chip department or app dev, at the end the best fastest chip/computer is an Arm in present, the system is called Fugaku and is installed at the Riken Center for Computational Science in Japan

Now show me your AMD, or you are just a fanatic amd chip that doesnt look around him!?

Honestly in general workloads I doubt the Fujitsu A64FX can compete with the current top Epyc CPU.
Fugaku supercomputer uses 7.300.000 cores while the number 2 supercomputer has 2.400.000 cores so quite a significant difference.

Anyway the world fastest supercomputer will use AMD Epyc CPUs with Zen 4 architecture and AMD GPUs. it's called: El Capitan Supercomputer.

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Not sure where you read that but I can tell you from direct first hand experience that this timeline is absolutely not true.
Yeah, it could be the first part of 2022.
The only reason Apple is able to launch iphones with 5nm SOCs right now is because of the huge amounts of money they payed TSMC.
TSMC's high performance node is nowhere near ready right now and even their current mass produced 5nm is not very high volume. It's no coincidence Qualcomm went with Samsung's 5nm this time around, TSMC simply doesn't have any 5nm capacity left for them.
 
It will be much sooner than end of 2021. I'm designing an extremely large (reticle sized) high performance CPU on TSMC 5nm now so the defect density has to production ready or we won't yield.

Yeah, it could be the first part of 2022.
The only reason Apple is able to launch iphones with 5nm SOCs right now is because of the huge amounts of money they payed TSMC.
TSMC's high performance node is nowhere near ready right now and even their current mass produced 5nm is not very high volume. It's no coincidence Qualcomm went with Samsung's 5nm this time around, TSMC simply doesn't have any 5nm capacity left for them.
 
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