Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Intel Delays 7-Nanometer Chips Until Late 2022 or Early 2023
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
They have to be famous for it? I don't see how that is a necessary condition. Or you are suggesting Apple can't fail in anything?
There's no guarantee of anything. Maybe TSMC and Samsung will massively stumble at 3nm and Apple will lose any competitive edge for desktop chips.
The idea is that there's no reason to disconsider AMD's CPUs, not now of for the next 5-10 years.
AMD's current high end main-stream CPU, the 3950x will still be a high end performer even 10 years from now.
Transitioning to AMD CPUs would be way easier than to a completely different architecture. AMD and intel CPUs are fully compatible so they run the same OS and Software no problem. A few years ago I transitioned from and AMD PC to an Intel PC without installing Windows 10, I just connected my SSD in my new PC and it worked flawlessly. So whatever work Apple would have to do it would be minor. I mean there are Macintosh PC's with Ryzen CPUs in the wild and they work.
And AMD and Intel motherboards are for the most part very similar so they wouldn't have to build a completely new motherboard around an AMD CPU.
I honestly think that the expectations for the next ARM Macs are unreasonably high and some people will be disappointed.
Last edited:
Makes me wonder if either or both Intel/ AMD have Arm based chips in development behind closed doors. I think that would be a relief for Microsoft, getting more partners on board to push Windows on Arm forward, as I think Apple's new Macs along with ever better iPads and chrome books is going to really turn the heat up on general consumer Windows laptops. With Lakefield being a massive mess Windows on Arm is the only one of Microsofts lighter/ more modern OS attempts that has a clear path forward currently.
I don’t see it that way. Maybe it’s a license issue. Are windows for arm licenses available to the general public? I think they’re only OEM at the moment. So even if bootcamp is still an option, they can’t say anything yet.
For some use cases the ability to run windows natively is critical. If that’s not possible anymore on a mac, some people will not buy one. If that subset of the mac user base is significant enough for apple to sort things out with microsoft, that’s for apple to decide. I’d say it’s the smart thing to do, since there are lots of apps that are windows-only, not the other way around.
After all, they did introduce bootcamp for a reason.
[automerge]1595599228[/automerge]
I wouldn’t be. And, as I said, I never used it.
Maybe you’re right, and they didn’t bother because not enough people use bootcamp. Maybe it’s a technical hurdle, and windows on arm isn’t worth the effort. Or maybe they are negotiating with microsoft. Either way, we’ll find out eventually.
Most importantly, in order not to derail the conversation any further, I think intel’s struggles show that the move to their own processors is the right call.
—Edited to add that maybe the reason behind not enabling bootcamp is that the arm version of windows is not ready for prime time.
Windows 10 on ARM Compatibility Check-In - Thurrott.com
It’s been two years since I last evaluated Windows 10 on ARM application and driver compatibility. What’s improved since then?
www.thurrott.com
Last edited:
Valid point. Doesn’t mean it can’t be true. Also you have to assume he probably still has contacts there. One does not leave a company like Intel after just arriving. So if he saw a change in 2010, those employees likely have been there over the last 10 years. Again assumptions, but their success or lack there of, credits these assumptions.
But you’re not wrong.
Last edited:
Why disagree ? RISC obviously is the better of the two. CISC is a dead technology and processor architecture - I am just happy to see INTEL suffer so much, now that Apple is going back to RISC. Think Different lives again.
[automerge]1595601204[/automerge]
I have... the writing in on the wall. Intel is going away. 2020-future will be RISC. Intel was a failure since 1970's and still is. I have dreamed for Intel to be in this for so so long. RISC will now finally take over.
[automerge]1595601294[/automerge]
AMDis already on 7 and will be on 5.... ARM will be a joke vs AMD Processors. sorry Apple made a big mistake this time.
ARM is great for ULV.. and fixed data streams.
[automerge]1595572240[/automerge]
How do you know ? Have you used an ARM mac before vs, AMD ? Actually, I have a very good heart for AMD as I wanted to see the death of iNTEL for a long long time.. Otellini is gone, so shall intel.
Move over, Intel. You're the 2020 version of the PowerPC. Can't wait for ARM. Typing this on a 16" MBP with blaring fans just because an external monitor is plugged in.
How I understand you, my 15" MacBook Pro 2019 with 16 GB and an Intel 8-Core i9 2,3 GHz is now (in the summer) constantly underclocking to 0.8 GHz!!
This is a shame for Intel and Apple too, how is this possible on a "professional laptop" with a cost around 3.000€!?
Take a look at this images:
The only solution I did found until now is to disable Turbo Boost.
Attachments
Why would it be advantageous of Intel (or AMD) to develop ARM chips? Intel is in business because x86 dominates the PC market. Moving to ARM would just open the doors for other competitors. It would make much more sense for Intel to make better x86 CPUs rather than ARM ones.
Besides, it's not that Intel is stagnating because they are sticking with x86. ISA doesn't matter that much. They simply don't seem to have a better microarchitecture on their hands at the moment. At least their upcoming GPU seems to be good (no wonder, it's designed by the guy who made Vega and Navi).
Apple will be producing 3nm Apple Silicon by the time Intel rolls out 7nm with a lot of difficulty.
That's really Apple's fault, not Intel's. You can't blame Intel for Apple's failure in designing a laptop form factor that cannot adequately handle the heat dissipation caused by high CPU load. It's a "pro" product that can't handle the needs of professionals. Plenty of PC laptops hold Intel insides and don't have any throttling or overheating issues.... Typing this on a 16" MBP with blaring fans just because an external monitor is plugged in.
The new 4000 mobile chips, that are just coming out in mobile devices now, are looking very good for AMD. All the reviews are positive that I've seen. The 4000 desktop chips looks to be good too but they will be OEM only at first.
Simpler, cheaper to develop and produce, and now near universally good enough for the consumer space. If Intel/ AMD don't get on board it's increasingly likely they are going to have their lunch eaten in the non-gaming consumer space. x86 is increasingly overkill outside of niche markets like gaming and enterprise, and Intel's focus on U series (consumer) chips shows it's a market they consider important. 'Better x86 CPUs' is what's escaping Intel currently, that's the point of this article lol. Basically if Intel and AMD don't do it, Qualcomm or someone else will.
Nanometers is just a marketing term. Intel chips still outperform Apple crap. Remember, Apple chips are baby mobile chips that can’t compete against real professional chips for real computer users such as myself. (I’m a professional Discord user and Twitch streamer and I also make custom emotes.)
Much of the stuff out there focuses on CPU (and GPU) performance. My bigger concern is battery life and a lot of that is more dependent on speed and power shifting algorithms etc, not just paper TDP numbers. This is especially true for much of the business market where even previous generation Y class chips usually provide sufficient performance.
We shall see once the actual products come out but I get the impression that for this AMD is depending heavily on process advantage as opposed to design advantage.
Apple 1.5 trillion vs not cash rich AMD. Tough call.
Apple. Leading edge cpu and gpu design in a market that Intel, Nv, AMD can't compete in.
Apple fail at producing even more powerful A class chips? (Have they failed...with any of them?)
AMD was a punch drunk boxer that have only got off the canvas because Intel sat on their process lead and dropped the ball on their process lead.
If Apple moves into traditional computer areas...Intel and AMD are going to have to compete...actually compete and up their game.
Azrael.
[automerge]1595603517[/automerge]
Intel are dead in the water.
They blew the big chance they had to be the cpu in the iPhone and make billions.
Now Apple, with custom Desktop and laptop cpu/gpus?
They're going to bury them.
Azrael.
I am curious, when has Apple used the latest available Intel chips? the update cycle for any of the Macs meant that rarely are we getting the top-of-the-line CPUs from Intel anyways, no?
That being the case, that will make AS cpu appear even more impressive...
But what's the point of redesigning thicker iMacs and Macbooks for thermal monsters.
They clearly gave up with the bug fest of Skylake. When you're biggest client is filing bug reports you've got problems.
Spectre.
You look at the iPhone and iPad progress.
AS always seemed inevitable. Been rumoured for years.
Azrael.
Move over, Intel. You're the 2020 version of the PowerPC. Can't wait for ARM. Typing this on a 16" MBP with blaring fans just because an external monitor is plugged in.
Isn't that a GPU and not a CPU issue?
Its a scary thought, I remember when Intel was the king of the market and no one can defy them.
Why is everyone looking at intel like they are dead business but no one makes any mentions about AMD? If AMD was any better Apple could have chosen to use AMD processors.
This is exactly what Steve Jobs said about Apple in mid-90s, its funny how these people never learn.
Why is everyone looking at intel like they are dead business but no one makes any mentions about AMD? If AMD was any better Apple could have chosen to use AMD processors.
This is exactly what Steve Jobs said about Apple in mid-90s, its funny how these people never learn.
It's no longer Steve's Apple. Which is sad IMO, but I'm not going into that can of worms in this thread.
I think it won’t be Apple and Microsoft that cooperates to get an ARM version of windows running. Apple is setting the structure in Big Sur for virtualization, but will leave it to someone else (almost certainly Parallels Inc.) to both make the deal with Microsoft to purchase Arm windows & to actually get windows running on the new Macs under virtualization.
I don’t see it that way. Maybe it’s a license issue. Are windows for arm licenses available to the general public? I think they’re only OEM at the moment. So even if bootcamp is still an option, they can’t say anything yet.
For some use cases the ability to run windows natively is critical. If that’s not possible anymore on a mac, some people will not buy one. If that subset of the mac user base is significant enough for apple to sort things out with microsoft, that’s for apple to decide. I’d say it’s the smart thing to do, since there are lots of apps that are windows-only, not the other way around.
After all, they did introduce bootcamp for a reason.
[automerge]1595599228[/automerge]
I wouldn’t be. And, as I said, I never used it.
Maybe you’re right, and they didn’t bother because not enough people use bootcamp. Maybe it’s a technical hurdle, and windows on arm isn’t worth the effort. Or maybe they are negotiating with microsoft. Either way, we’ll find out eventually.
Most importantly, in order not to derail the conversation any further, I think intel’s struggles show that the move to their own processors is the right call.
—Edited to add that maybe the reason behind not enabling bootcamp is that the arm version of windows is not ready for prime time.
Windows 10 on ARM Compatibility Check-In - Thurrott.com
It’s been two years since I last evaluated Windows 10 on ARM application and driver compatibility. What’s improved since then?
I understand your points. However, Craig has stated as a fact, no Boot Camp in Apple Silicon Machines. It's a done deal.
Guaranteed.