Intel Developing Next PowerMac for Apple?

[SiliconAddict]

I notice that you skip right over the OptiPlex GX 270, the biggest pile of crap machine that Dell has put out in a while. I deployed 110 of them a year and a half ago, 40 have had their motherboards crap out. Steaming Pile of Crap. How is this for life. I support PC/Windows all day, won't touch one at home, Mac Only at home. Intel best not screw up. I do have faith in them though, they have a HUGE reputation to uphold.

I didn't skip over it. We never had them in the office so I have no knowledge of the model. I'm simply telling you guys what I've experienced over the last 5 years: and that is the Optiplex system is a good desktop.

 

[Randall]

So today Macintosh give more value for money than x86 PCs. What is your rationale for you not only suggesting but guaranteeing that this will change when Macs use an x86 processor? You don't actually give any reasons why that would be so, you just assert it. You seem to be a very irrational person.

Apple's margins on hardware are higher then most PC manufacturers margins. You will see it when we have some direct corrilation to compare to. We can even do so this January if x86 Macs will be avialiable then. You will see my point when I can provide you with direct proof. You seem to be a very pompous person.

 

[Photorun]

I didn't skip over it. We never had them in the office so I have no knowledge of the model. I'm simply telling you guys what I've experienced over the last 5 years: and that is the Optiplex system is a good desktop.

I'm really not sure why you're even here SiliconAddict, are you a troll with very little time on your hands (clearly by the amount of vacuous posts), a hater, both, an unenlightened PC user (clearly) or what your case is. You don't seem to like Macs, love PCs and defend the crap out of them and diss Macs left and right. Exactly WHY are you here? To whine about how great peecees are? To get people to convert to Windows? Spread disinformation?

You're shtick is really old, go find a "Microsoft Windows/I (Heart) Dell" forum and leave us Mac users to babble about our own inane stuff. Save your prostelityzing to those who may give a flying crap about the droll, off-topic, misinformed and disingenuous high-and-mighty pointless stuff you drivel on and on about.

 

[Randall]

I'm really not sure why you're even here SiliconAddict, are you a troll with very little time on your hands (clearly by the amount of vacuous posts), a hater, both, an unenlightened PC user (clearly) or what your case is. You don't seem to like Macs, love PCs and defend the crap out of them and diss Macs left and right. Exactly WHY are you here? To whine about how great peecees are? To get people to convert to Windows? Spread disinformation?

You're shtick is really old, go find a "Microsoft Windows/I (Heart) Dell" forum and leave us Mac users to babble about our own inane stuff. Save your prostelityzing to those who may give a flying crap about the droll, off-topic, misinformed and disingenuous high-and-mighty pointless stuff you drivel on and on about.

I disagree with this completely. I don't see how you can cast someone off that adds intellectual content to the forum as being a "troll" simply because he has different views then you. We are all Mac enthusiasts here, but clearly there are some people here that simply enjoy bashing Microsoft continuiously. And it is annoying as h3ll.

 

[firebox]

What makes you think Apple isn't specifying the design of the motherboards? Intel guys can do the VLSI and make it work well.

Think of it like a building - Apple is the Architect, Intel is the General Contractor. The GC is capable of building any building you tell him to build, and if it's a good GC, really well, without any leaky roofs or cracked ceilings.

Intel is Tommy Silva. Apple is Santiago Calatrava. I'm buying.

well..f**king..said mon frere!!! some of the 'hardcore' need to chill out a little and start ranting about the more important things - like, why are 90% of the computer using population stll on an inferior OS!?

 

[rayz]

Ummm, yeah buddy, nobody wants to buy a Mac is why they're actually back up in market share in various polls based on business/consumer models to 5% or even 7% or in Japan where they actually know and give a s*** about computers as the best tool for a job (i.e. NOT a peecee) 30%.

Try again pal, this time with some semblance of what would resemble a clue.

Sorry mate, but 95% of the computer buying public does not want a Mac; this is a decison based on needs, and not an emotional attachment to a machine. Whichever way you rationalise it, that's not a good figure. And it's hardly surprising that the Mac share is up; Microsoft has been struggling to get Windows Vista out the door for a while now, which man WinTel sales are going to be pretty unspectacular until folk have something new to play with.

I guess you also believe that the vast majority of iPod sales go to the massive Mac market share ....

 

[rayz]

Uh, yes, they have. They're one of the top few computer makers in the world.

Then how come only 4% of the population uses them, and the other 96% uses Windows?

Nobody runs Windows on their Macs now (except maybe, slowly, with VirtualPC), and they sell millions of them.[/QUOTE

Er ... that's because most folk actually buy a PC and don't run Macs at all ...

Don't count on Intel Macs booting into Windows...if they use EFI for the firmware, goodbye to XP and everything earlier (unless you use VirtualPC, which will at least be faster, but still won't have hardware acceleration).

--Eric

Well, we'll have to wait and see on that one.

 

[rayz]

an unenlightened PC user (clearly)

'Unenlightened'?

Oh boy ...

Well, the PC users may be right about one thing, not so much a platform as a religion.

 

[Randall]

Don't count on Intel Macs booting into Windows...if they use EFI for the firmware, goodbye to XP and everything earlier (unless you use VirtualPC, which will at least be faster, but still won't have hardware acceleration).

--Eric

Well, we'll have to wait and see on that one.

I have to agree here. I find it hard to believe that Apple would support an ancient boot ROM in BIOS when EFI will help them protect their software from running on PC's. So don't expect to dual boot your butts off until Vista is delivered (which will support both EFI and BIOS for legacy reasons). Heh, it's not such a bad thing, cause Vista's eye candy should help make OS X users feel more at home in Windows.

 

[Lord Kythe]

Sorry mate, but 95% of the computer buying public does not want a Mac; this is a decison based on needs, and not an emotional attachment to a machine. Whichever way you rationalise it, that's not a good figure. And it's hardly surprising that the Mac share is up; Microsoft has been struggling to get Windows Vista out the door for a while now, which man WinTel sales are going to be pretty unspectacular until folk have something new to play with.

I guess you also believe that the vast majority of iPod sales go to the massive Mac market share ....

LOL, that's one of the funniest things I've heard. You actually think that "95% of the computer buying public have (Windows-based) PCs" means that 95% of them don't want a mac? They just don't know about it. I worked in several retail environments (internet, educational and retail stores). Man, about 25 customers asked me if their iPod would work on a Mac in the Nov.-Dec. period alone. I'm serious.

I convert about 5-6 times more PC users to the Mac platform these last few years (especially 2004-2005) than ever before, and Apple's marketshare is growing. I won't even start speculating as the "why" the market is growing, but it is, that's a fact.

Windows Vista? Come on, most PC users don't even know about that, whether you refer to LongHorn or Windows Vista, they have absolutely no clue what it is. It has VERY little (if not, absolutely nothing) to do with Apple's marketshare increase.

 

[rhashem]

When a "resource" is a couple of bytes in physical (real) address space and an overloaded interrupt line - does it really matter? (ps. for computer scientists, the term "overloaded" is a good thing, not a bad thing ;-) - we're not electrical engineers, after all)

Well, not to mention that most modern PCs use I/O APICs with 24-64 interrupt lines. I know on my current PC, my graphics card uses interrupt line 18 or something.

 

[Lord Kythe]

'Unenlightened'?

Oh boy ...

Well, the PC users may be right about one thing, not so much a platform as a religion.

Oh, you don't like "big" words? Breaks your "safe" sementical boundaries? Perhaps you'd prefer something like "shallow" pc user? Or is it plain wrong to dare make the statement that Macs are better computers? We are cultists for believing a computer is better than another? I'm sorry, but I firmly believe Macs are better computers, and I think it is a reasonable statement, and if you propose a computer running Windows against one running Mac OS X, I mean it's not even a contest.

The only thing PCs are better at than Macs is gaming, and getting viruses, worms and spyware. And since the XBox arrived, I don't even know what PCs are still around for anymore; oh yeah! Making money by investing billions in advertisement. Macs were simply never advertised as much as Wintels, and now that they are advertising more, Apple's marketshare is rising every month. Looks like when confronted by both computers, most people will choose macs. I've experienced it first hand, at several places (mostly educational, but some retail locations as well).

 

[rhashem]

But you aren't going to get dual-core 970-beating chips that run at 1/3 the watts, that's for sure. Not this year or next year, anyway.

Sure you are. Yonah will very likely beat a dual-core 2+GHz G5 in most tasks that don't take advantage of AltiVec.

 

[rhashem]

The hardware to me is just as important as the software. If Apple ships the same Intel motherboard just in a fancy chassis that say Dell or Gateway also ships for 35% higher, I'm not going to buy it. That just doesn't make good consumer sense. The O/S is large part of why I use a Mac, however Mac OS X is not worth the premium price alone. It's the combination of OS X and Apple's specialized hardware that makes me a Mac user.

What specialized hardware? A current-gen PowerMac is basically a Dell with a G5. Same OEM RAM, same Western Digital HDD, same Pioneer DVD burner, etc. The only thing different is the motherboard and the case. The motherboard is basically the same as a PC motherboard (PCI Express, SATA, etc), only with a G5 socket instead of a Pentium 4 socket. The case, well, that'll be in the Intel Macs too.

This change is so insignificant its not even worth worrying about; simply because over the last decades, Macs have become PCs with different CPUs.

 

[rhashem]

* Hot
* Noisy
* Power-hungry
* Big

Describes my PowerMac dual-core G5 perfectly!

Noisy. Apple has traditionally been very successful in this area. Lets hope they can be again.

In what decade? I've got a PowerMac G4 (Digital Audio), a PowerMac G5 (PCI-E), and a dual-core Athlon64 PC. Guess which one is the most quiet?

Power-hungry. Apple has been very successful in this area.

Again, in what decade? My PowerMac G4 has a 338w power supply. My Dell PII from the same era has a 250w power supply. My PowerMac G5 hsa a 600w (!) power supply. My Athlon64 has a 380W power supply.

 

[rhashem]

I'm really not sure why you're even here SiliconAddict, are you a troll with very little time on your hands (clearly by the amount of vacuous posts), a hater, both, an unenlightened PC user (clearly) or what your case is. You don't seem to like Macs, love PCs and defend the crap out of them and diss Macs left and right. Exactly WHY are you here? To whine about how great peecees are? To get people to convert to Windows? Spread disinformation?

I don't think this is a productive line of argument. By your logic, I'm an "unelightened PC user", etc, etc. Yet, I've got a PowerMac (actually, two at the moment), and I love the thing. Sure, you'll never hear me say a good thing about the G5, or support Apple's scorched-earth policy regarding "legacy" ports (like PCI...), or believe that Apple doesn't use generic OEM parts in their PCs, just like Dell. You don't need to drink the kool-aid to love your Mac. Macs stand on their own merits --- you don't have to pretend that they don't have weaknesses, or that PCs don't have a leg-up in a lot of respects.

If you love the Mac platform, as opposed to the Mac "image", you'll be happy about this Intel news. It's going to mean cheaper (even if Apple keeps its current margin), more stable, more reliable, and faster PowerMacs. They won't be as "unique", but what's the point of being different just for the sake of being different?

 

[kcmac]

Calm down people. It's the holiday season and all.

 

[destroyboredom]

Intel=quality

For those worried about quality control, I worked for a distribution partner of Intel's for 4 years. There motherboards are great quality, little to no returns.

 

[mercury26]

I think the real question here is, will Intel make the motherboards accept CPU upgrades? I am all for the ability of ordering new CPUs for my motherboard when I want to upgrade. Even with my PCs, I keep a motherboard for a couple years while I make CPU upgrades. I just hope they do not solder the CPU to the board.

Cheers,

:: Chuck

 

[generik]

I think the real question here is, will Intel make the motherboards accept CPU upgrades? I am all for the ability of ordering new CPUs for my motherboard when I want to upgrade. Even with my PCs, I keep a motherboard for a couple years while I make CPU upgrades. I just hope they do not solder the CPU to the board.

Cheers,

:: Chuck

I doubt so, Apple will probably want to save that $0.10 per PowerMac.

 

[Multimedia]

All Apple Software Will Run Natively From Day One

Why? What's going to run natively on Intel Macs, aside from (probably) iLife and a couple of new game ports? For quite a while, 90% or more of everything you run will probably have to go through Rosetta, which means it will run slowly or not at all. Unless you like having new things just for the sake of having new things, sticking with a PPC Mac for now would be a good idea.

--Eric

Final Cut Studio, Logic, iLife '06, OS X, All OS X Software Applications. For me that is a lot. I also expect Rosetta to be very efficient. To believe that no third party software will be Universal Binary at MacWorld Expo SF is a very cynical view I do not share.

 

[mercury26]

Final Cut Studio, Logic, iLife '06, OS X, All OS X Software Applications. For me that is a lot. I also expect Rosetta to be very efficient. To believe that no third party software will be Universal Binary at MacWorld Expo SF is a very cynical view I do not share.

I want to know if AU and VST plugins will work through Rosetta. If not, than it makes Logic pretty unusable for most audio professionals.

Cheers,

:: Chuck

 

[jhu]

Oh, you don't like "big" words? Breaks your "safe" sementical boundaries? Perhaps you'd prefer something like "shallow" pc user? Or is it plain wrong to dare make the statement that Macs are better computers? We are cultists for believing a computer is better than another? I'm sorry, but I firmly believe Macs are better computers, and I think it is a reasonable statement, and if you propose a computer running Windows against one running Mac OS X, I mean it's not even a contest.

The only thing PCs are better at than Macs is gaming, and getting viruses, worms and spyware. And since the XBox arrived, I don't even know what PCs are still around for anymore; oh yeah! Making money by investing billions in advertisement. Macs were simply never advertised as much as Wintels, and now that they are advertising more, Apple's marketshare is rising every month. Looks like when confronted by both computers, most people will choose macs. I've experienced it first hand, at several places (mostly educational, but some retail locations as well).

1) the darwin kernel is relatively slow
2) most people will choose by the price. it's debatable whether the mac is a better value. for some it is, for me, the price to be different isn't worth it.

 

[Norse Son]

Custom Apple-Intel CPU

Nope.
Because I believe both companies are putting out false and misleading "inside info" to certain people..
Pretty simple actually..

And speaking of inside info.I hadn't noticed anyone talking about the bottom part of that appleinsider article :

"An analyst told Apple Insider of indications that the two companies may be developing a custom processor that will be made available only to Apple systems."

On the first part; yeah, I have often wondered if Steve sits up there in his corner office on "slow days" and, "finding nothing to do" at either of his 2 companies, he closes the blinds, turns down the lights, sits in the shadows, adjusts his voice-discombobulator, then starts up iChat and does an anonymous video chat with the various rumor sites, telling them he's "a mole deep in Cupertino, and he has the real juicy NDA-kind of info on Apple's 'world-domination plans'"... Then he sits back and has a good laugh while watching the activity at all the rumor sites on his multi-screen PowerMac G9/5THz computer...

Now, about the second part, of Apple & Intel "cooking up" a custom cpu; I made a comment in the thread just yesterday about that idea - I had read the AppleInsider article. However, I've seen the topic mentioned more than once in the past... Here's my take & timeline:
• During 2006 Apple has introduced Intel models of the PowerBook & iMac at MWSF that use the dual-core Yonah.
• At a "one more thing" event in late April, Apple introduces the new iMac 23" HD-DVR system, the vPod (avail. in 5.5" & 7" TFTs, with choice of 80/100/120GB S-ATA drives), and a "major new influx" of "partners" for the iTMS' video section... And, right when people think it's over, Apple announces a worldwide promotion for the 1,000,000,000th iTMS download (a new iMac 23" HD-DVR system, a vPod 7" 120GB, and a 10,000 song iTMS gift card).
• The iBook and mini get the single-core Yonah in May.
• At WWDC - which focuses on MacOS X only - Apple says to expect Leopard "under the tree this 'X'-Mas"... Also, they announce several "big guns" who have made major milestones in porting their apps to x86 (Adobe CS3 will be avail. 4th qtr.).
• Microsoft quietly trims a few more "features" from Vista and announces grandly that it will be released by the end of the year - the story makes the 7th page, next to a story of a turnip truck that overturned in Millsboro Heights, Kansas...
• They split/expand the PowerBook into Yonah & Merom lines in September, as well as the iBook into single- & dual-core Yonah lines.
• The iMac switches to Merom in September - rumors begin of a "marriage" between the iMac-Merom and the 30" ACD-HD, but it will wait 'til MWSF '07.
• In November Apple unleashes the new PowerMacs with dual & quad dual-core Conroes, as well as a new "flagship" 42" ACD-HD - the 17" ACD is replaced with a 19" ACD-HD WS.
• Steve Ballmer hops around the studio in an interview, throwing chairs, when he is asked to pinpoint the exact date Vista is due before the year is over; "We did not specify which year, did we?"
• Apple phases out Classic - it's not present in Leopard (they license MacLink Plus Deluxe technology to open "legacy files").
• In Feb. '07 Apple introduces the new XServe based on Woodcrest - and it is announced that Virginia Tech's "Big Mac" cluster will be replaced by 1500 dual dual-cores "yada-yada-yada".
• By WWDC '07 Apple's marketshare has climed into the double-digits.
• Apple edges towards Microsoft's market value, having passed up Dell a year before.
• Rumors start to circulate of an ultra-top-secret project known only as "Pooka" taking place at Intel's labs in Oregon. "Harvey" is floated about, too, leading analysts to speculate Apple is developing a cloaking device to mask your monitor, keyboard & iPod ear buds from prying eyes and envious hands... They are dead wrong! Apple has buried Classic, and now, working secretly with Intel, they are building a quad-core cpu ("Harvey") on a 45nm process that ditches all the "legacy patches & scaffolding" that the x86 architecture has accrued over the years to maintain support for "paleolithic" DOS applications..."Pooka" is the chipset that has on-board WiMax-IMUM, DDR3, S-ATA 300, PCI-Exp x32, FireWire 1600, "Yada-yada-yada"... When released in mobile, desktop & server versions beginning at MWSF '08, it causes MSFT to tumble 35% on Wallstreet... "Big Mac" is upgraded before the Fall Semester...

Hey,... I just did a "what if"... So sue me!

 

[Lord Kythe]

1) the darwin kernel is relatively slow
2) most people will choose by the price. it's debatable whether the mac is a better value. for some it is, for me, the price to be different isn't worth it.

Well, I don't know what to say about the "relatively slow" since the word relatively is there, but if you are wondering if I think Macs are the absolute best at everything, I certainly don't. I'm saying they're generally better, way better, not really insisting on speed. Sure, the Kernel might not be the fastest (I'm really not versed enough on the subject to assert anything anyway), but who's looking for that? People want real world results, and that's what the Mac has always offered: stable and enjoyable interface for consumers, power and high quality software for Pros. PM G5s are extremely powerful for the price.

Try finding a brand name PC with the Mid and High-end Macs' specs at a better price. Won't happen. Tried with Dell, HP, GateWay, AlienWare and IBM, didn't come close. And they ran Windows

The best value for Pro users is Macs, hands down. As for consumers, well, it gets more complicated though, except for laptops where Macs still give the most bang for the buck (especially the Student Price on iBooks). With the Mac Mini in the picture, it's better than it was value-wise. But I'll agree it's debatable for low-end desktops.