Intel Dunks on Apple's Dongles in Continued Anti-M1 Mac Campaign

[Zdigital2015]

So you're saying to solve the dongle issue...we have to buy more dongles?

I have two USB-C to USB-A dongles for flash drives and for other devices without captive connectors I have bought cables. I have several USB to Micro-USB and Mini-USB devices, so I have a 2 USB-C cables to allow me to connect to those devices (Zoom H6, FZ-2500, trail camera, Kindle Fire 6”). USB-C cables are economical at this point and plentiful.

Anyone pining for USB-A on a MacBook Pro needs to emerge from the dark ages and come join the rest of the world.

 

[ani4ani]

The USB-A fans on here will love this - for the rest of us living in the present since 2016, there's USB-C.

Not on my iPad or iPhone bought in 2019?

 

[v3rlon]

Actually, those are my dongles, Intel. I put them down to help you carry your windows dongles out to the truck.

 

[MysticCow]

I have two USB-C to USB-A dongles for flash drives and for other devices without captive connectors I have bought cables. I have several USB to Micro-USB and Mini-USB devices, so I have a 2 USB-C cables to allow me to connect to those devices (Zoom H6, FZ-2500, trail camera, Kindle Fire 6”). USB-C cables are economical at this point and plentiful.

Anyone pining for USB-A on a MacBook Pro needs to emerge from the dark ages and come join the rest of the world.

Again, so to solve the dongle issue, you recommend...buying more dongles?

Just screaming personal attacks doesn't work. In fact, it makes you look like (CENSORED).

 

[cmaier]

AHHH the typical fanboy cry......TROOOOOLLLLLL. Too funny. I like and use apple things, I just find it massively ironic that the apple lemmings here are calling out intel for Justin and pointing out actual things about PC vs Mac when Apple had the other guy at the end of their release show just pretending he is running saying "im still fast" Seriously? I guess the mother ship is just as immature as most of it's following.

You can’t object to being accused of trolling and then call people who disagree with you lemmings.

 

[Alan Wynn]

Yes because millions of people are going to just ditch their perfectly good devices because you and apple said so. If apple was supposedly so environmentally friendly as they claim they would have kept the a port. Oh look it's Dannyjjk. Awesome.

No need to ditch anything. Most people with multiple USB devices connect with a USB hub anyway. The can get a single converter for their existing hub or a new much more capable dock that is easier to connect (no need to worry about connector orientation).

However, moving forward this encourages device manufacturers to produce USB C only versions of things. Far superior to the horde of USB cables I currently need:

• USB-A 2 to USB A 2.
• USB A 2 to USB B 2
• USB A 3.1 gen 2 to USB A 3.1 gen 2
• USB A 2 to USB Mini
• USB A 2 to USB micro
• USB A 3.1 gen 2 to USB Micro 3.1 gen 2
• USB A 3.1 gen 2 to USB B 3.2 gen 2
• USB Micro 2 to USB mini 2

I think it is funny that people act as if dongles are uniquely needed in a USB-C world. The reality is that fewer different cable types are needed in a USB C world and the faster we get there the better off everyone is.

 

[Alan Wynn]

Am I missing something? Is he a cyborg sent back through time, rather than a real person?

Since he is using his own name and he is a celebrity, there are some restrictions as to what he can say about what he uses. When he was a character (”I’m a Mac”) he was less restricted. By saying “I’m Justin” rather than “I’m a guy dressed to look like I did when I did some commercials for Apple 10 years ago.” he is likely covered by the celebrity endorsement requirements.

Although to be clear, I have no evidence that he is not a cyborg sent back through time.

 

[cmaier]

The lack of ports is a limitation of the M1 chip(it's a SOC, the controller is on the processor), which is just a tweaked A14 ported from mobile. It didn't need to have a controller to support multiple USB on mobile. Or support for large amounts of ram. These first releases were pretty much to get the transition moving.

I fully expect you'll see all the ports return on the next M2 version. I'm not worried.

1) the M1 has two USB-C controllers, each with equal bandwidths to the intel USB-C controllers on intel macs. Each is capable of supporting two ports, but doing so would mean that M1 USB-C bandwidth would be (if all ports are used) only EQUAL to that of intel macs, instead of double.

In other words, the only thing necessary to add 2 more ports to M1-based macs is to add the physical ports. CPU already handles it.

2) the M1 chip is not at all a tweaked A14. The CPU cores share the same microarchitecture, apparently, but those are a small part of the chip, and their actual designs appear to be different.

This is obvious when comparing floor plans.

Differences, apart from actual circuit designs, floorplan, etc., include:

M1 has double the number of high speed cores
M1 has double the number of GPU cores
M1 has double the DDR interface
M1 has all the functions that are in the T2 processor, and various other controllers
M1 IS 37% larger than the A14
L2 cache is 1.5 larger in M1
M1 has 25% less system cache than A14
M1 supports PCIe
Each logic gate in M1 appears to use different transistors than in A14
M1 is clocked higher than A14
The M1 contains an image signal processor and thunderbolt 4 controller, and different storage and I/O controllers

It appears the main similarity is that the abstract netlists are more or less the same between some equivalent blocks (e.g. the cores).

 

[Abazigal]

Yes, because apple claiming you can only use USB C is ushering in a new world order....well, apple lemm...i mean fans think that everything apple says and does is god like so I can see that.

What incentive would people have to transition to usb-c accessories and peripherals if older ports existed on their device and they could fall back on them?

This is the lesson that Apple keeps teaching, and which others keep ignore. That change must be forced.

 

[dannys1]

Actually, the M1 MacBook Air and MacBook Pro includes two Thunderbolt busses rather than the one in the previous generation Intel Air and MacBook Pro. This means it offers twice the throughput. The Mac mini using the same chip offers an additional 2 USB-A ports and an HDMI 2.0 port, so am I am pretty sure the reason there are only two ports on these laptops is that the machines they replaced had only two ports.

Exactly this!

 

[tubular]

I think Apple saw the folly of "one port to rule them all" and is headed back in the other direction. The USB-C-everywhere future they hoped for didn't arrive, just as the multi-GPU future of the Mac Pro cylinder didn't arrive. Not every risk they take pans out.

 

[mi7chy]

MacBook Air M1 weighs 2.8# and only has Thunderbolt 3 which is only good for 4K video output while the Thinkpad X1 Nano is 1.99# so almost 2/3 the weight and has Thunderbolt 4 which does 8K video output with options for touch input and WWAN. Intel is a clear favorite only if they outsource their mobile CPUs to 5nm Samsung or TSMC.

 

[Alan Wynn]

Yes, Apple did remove so many ports from their computers.

They did not remove ports, they replaced them with much more flexible and valuable ports.

But now that Jony Ives has been fired, this design blunder is being reversed. Maybe by the time the M2 chips areould Macs will be built for function over looks.

It was never about looks it was about flexibility. With 4 USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 ports, I can:

• Connect a monitor on either side (rather than only on the side with the HDMI).
• I can connect 2 monitors (and if one is a USB C or Thunderbolt monitor I probably do not need to supply power).
• I can connect Gigabit, 2.5Gb/s, 5Gb/s, 10Gb/s, 25Gb/s or 40Gb/s Ethernet.
• I can connect a full speed Compact Flash, CFast, or CFExpress reader.
• I can connect a full speed microSD, SD, or UHS reader (many of the USB C ones will do all of both formats)
• I can connect a USB C dock (for $48 from Monoprice I get 3 USB A 3.1 gen 2, an HDMI 2.0, gigabit Ethernet and a USB C port).
• I can connect several Thunderbolt 3 storage options (including arrays) allowing multiple full speed copies simultaneously.
• I can connect PCI expansion chassises.
• etc.

Giving up two of those ports for an HDMI port (whose standard is likely to change well before I replace my laptop -the previous one was 1.4 and we are now on 2.1) and an SD card reader (same issue except there are also many other formats like CFExpress that real professionals use) just locks these ports into one use that may be fine for some people, but way more limiting for others.

In fact, with their current port configuration you can do everything you could do before, but someone working in film production like my friends and I, is able to do things that were previously impossible.

The worst case cost to you is a cable or port adapter, whereas if I lose these flexible ports, I may lose functionality I cannot replace.

 

[DrRadon]

I will celebrate the day on wich apple moves away from being USB-C online and finally makes their MacBooks "Pro" again.

 

[Alan Wynn]

MacBook Air M1 weighs 2.8# and only has Thunderbolt 3 which is only good for 4K video output

Sorry, the MacBook Air supports 6K video.

while the Thinkpad X1 Nano is 1.99# so almost 2/3 the weight and has Thunderbolt 4 which does 8K video output

Nope. According to the Lenovo site, it supports a max resolution of 5120x3200@60Hz. It also has only a single Thunderbolt buss, vs. the two on the MacBook Air.

with options for touch input and WWAN. Intel is a clear favorite only if they outsource their mobile CPUs to 5nm Samsung or TSMC.

It also costs $310 more at the base, and has only 72% of the battery life.

 

[DrRadon]

They did not remove ports, they replaced them with much more flexible and valuable ports.

No, they factually removed ports.

They turned seven into two or four. That is factually less. It just is.

I don´t care that there is a plot of land were you could build a garage.
If your house dos not have a garage, it dos not have a garage despite the capability of building one in a designated spot.

Your new MacBook Pro sold today comes with less ports than my MacBook Pro 2015.
Granted I only use five of those Ports (2x USB, MagSafe, SD Reader, HDMI) my Hardware functions without me spending an additional 100€ on **** that makes stuff work.


There is no issue in having Thunderbolt/USB-C.
There is an issue in not having the ports everybody uses on a daily basis in your all in one solution.
A computer in 2021 needs classic fat USB. Everybody uses it daily.
A computer in 2021 needs HDMI out. It is compatible with every screen build in the past decade.
A computer in 2021 needs a SD Card reader. It literally is in every modern camera, especially the professional ones.

All of this fits a modern machine. Apple sacrificed true usability to make **** thinner. And that's bad design.

If you look at Apple removing DVD Drives.
Whole different story. Because the world stoped using them. Good design, ahead of it's time.
70% of what Apple removed from MacBook people still use today on a daily basis, five years later.
It was a bad design decision. It. just. was.
And it won't stop being one.

Camera Companies are to slow to build better wireless solutions in their cameras.
HDMI will still fit every screen five years from now.
And people won't stop using fat old USB because it is priced about a billion times better than USB-C stuff and fills their needs just fine (fast enough data transaction, connecting a cable mouse, loading your vibrator).

Nobody is taking thunderbolt away from you. It just is a nuance and unprofessional to not include those other ports.

 

[mjoecups]

Apple is obsessed with dongles though. There's no denying that.

 

[mjoecups]

Actually they are obsessed with streamlining ports, the dongles are just a side effect! Also as the owner of 2016 MacBook Pro, I have found this to be a total non-issue.

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

Instead of dongles, how about a USB-C hub?

 

[cmaier]

Apple is obsessed with dongles though. There's no denying that.

I deny it. They’ve never had an apple event to talk about dongles. They don’t have press releases about dongles. They don’t have a dongle-specific website. Cupertino is one town over, and I hardly ever go to a restaurant and see an apple employee at the next table murmuring “dongle dongle dongle...”

 

[Steve Adams]

Instead of dongles, how about a USB-C hub?

View attachment 1746041

Cool, my notebook has that built in!

 

[Steve Adams]

I deny it. They’ve never had an apple event to talk about dongles. They don’t have press releases about dongles. They don’t have a dongle-specific website. Cupertino is one town over, and I hardly ever go to a restaurant and see an apple employee at the next table murmuring “dongle dongle dongle...”

You just never listened hard enough. ha ha ha.

 

[Zdigital2015]

Again, so to solve the dongle issue, you recommend...buying more dongles?

Just screaming personal attacks doesn't work. In fact, it makes you look like (CENSORED).

Cables aren’t dongles, but people on this forum have been trying to make that logic work for 5 years and it still sounds stupid.

Screaming personal attacks?!? First, it wasn’t directed at you and it was hardly a screaming personal attack.

Secondly, I’ve listened to the endless whining for the past 6 years about the “loss” of a port that isn’t even a loss, but is a net gain in functionality and utility, unless users prefer living in the dark ages. Which, apparently, some users seem to prefer.

 

[kazmac]

😂They have a point about dongles, but this was not the right way to dunk on that.

 

[Steve Adams]

😂They have a point about dongles, but this was not the right way to dunk on that.

Nor was it right, proper, mature etc.... for apple to use the "i'm a PC" guy at their so called event.