The gap between Intel and ARM in emulated software is likely too large to breach
https://www.extremetech.com/computi...ly-ready-to-fight-intel-for-the-laptop-market
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Intel Expecting Apple to Transition to Custom ARM-Based Chips Starting in 2020
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The gap between Intel and ARM in emulated software is likely too large to breach
https://www.extremetech.com/computi...ly-ready-to-fight-intel-for-the-laptop-market
Maybe the new Mac Pro will contain an Intel and an ARM chip side-by-side. Xcode would run on the Intel chip and iOS Simulator would run on ARM. In that case, Simulator could have its name changed to Emulator.
If they abandon x86 I'm not sure I can follow =[
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Some more level-headed approach to the matter and a possible and sensible timeline:
- announcement of Apple designed ARM chips coming to Macs at WWDC together with documentation etc for developers to prepare their applications for it. Showing off compat. layer for legacy applications.
- 2020 will see some smaller scale introduction of the chip (maybe in a new MacBook - not pro)
- full transition in 2021 when devs hopefully have migrated to ARM.
From a programming Point-of-View, I don't know how difficult it would be to compile native X86 applications to ARM (given, they don't use frameworks that do the job for them) but if it "just" making sure to move the intrinsics and inline asm stuff to ARM, it might be doable. But this is a very arm-chairy take on it.
- announcement of Apple designed ARM chips coming to Macs at WWDC together with documentation etc for developers to prepare their applications for it. Showing off compat. layer for legacy applications.
- 2020 will see some smaller scale introduction of the chip (maybe in a new MacBook - not pro)
- full transition in 2021 when devs hopefully have migrated to ARM.
From a programming Point-of-View, I don't know how difficult it would be to compile native X86 applications to ARM (given, they don't use frameworks that do the job for them) but if it "just" making sure to move the intrinsics and inline asm stuff to ARM, it might be doable. But this is a very arm-chairy take on it.
Processing power isn't the problem with this... it's app functionality and UI scalability.
Write once, compile for multiple platforms is a cool idea... but, and it's a BIG but (and I cannot lie), the Mac and even the iPhone and iPad are radically different devices when it comes to scale and user interface/interaction.
It's already difficult for developers to conceive of or create apps just in terms of two form factors on the same OS with the same input options, let alone desktop computing where the screens are huge, the mouse gives precise control, and menus allow access to powerful hidden features and complexity.
There are very few apps I can think of that could succeed as a fit for all three device sizes/uses. Also, the complexity of coding exceptions for the different devices, use-cases, and features is so prohibitive you might as well stick with separate code bases and SDKs.
Write once, compile for multiple platforms is a cool idea... but, and it's a BIG but (and I cannot lie), the Mac and even the iPhone and iPad are radically different devices when it comes to scale and user interface/interaction.
It's already difficult for developers to conceive of or create apps just in terms of two form factors on the same OS with the same input options, let alone desktop computing where the screens are huge, the mouse gives precise control, and menus allow access to powerful hidden features and complexity.
There are very few apps I can think of that could succeed as a fit for all three device sizes/uses. Also, the complexity of coding exceptions for the different devices, use-cases, and features is so prohibitive you might as well stick with separate code bases and SDKs.
There’s more to the world of video production than FCP - in fact, I don’t know a single studio/production house that use it anymore. iPad Pro is great but for serious video editing or motion graphics it’s just a toy.
Uh.... no-a benchmark tests raw capabilities such as bandwidths. They are estimated real-world stress test. I've built a few computers in my day. Never would I use a modular chipset, its personal preference-and I bought Apples, due to characteristics which are now changing. You do you-if it works for you then fine.
ok--fine. But here is my concern:
what about boot camp? I this going to screw with my windows 10 when I decide to buy a new Mac. Second, what about the programs that came to Mac once apple transitioned from G-processors? Are they all going away then?
what about boot camp? I this going to screw with my windows 10 when I decide to buy a new Mac. Second, what about the programs that came to Mac once apple transitioned from G-processors? Are they all going away then?
I'd love to get a fanless Macbook size device that has ARM based chip and matches the performance of MBPs. Also think bezels, face ID and OLED. Thanks.
Apple’s latest A12 chip is already blazingly fast without any cooling fans and a low TDP. Imagine the A12 in a MacBook Pro 13” with fans and a higher TDP. It’s gonna be a screamer.
When you see these machines and the first reviews come out, will you be so kind as to dig this post up and eat crow when you're proven wrong? You will be proven wrong. ARM has more performant designs meant for desktop and server use. You'll see. Intel can't keep up anymore. Too much old baggage to carry around. They are not the future. The future is ARM. You'll see. And I bet once you do see, you'll be buying ARM-based computers because you won't be willing to pay more, for older tech that is less performant. Don't go changing your name now.
Doesn't fill me with excitement. "Apple wants developers to be able to create one app that will work on iPhones, iPads, and Macs." The last time Apple moved from Intel to PPC, I had to upgrade my Mac as Adobe no longer supported Intel. Hope the same doesn't happen again.
But my basic tools are UX related now and the price point with subscriptions is much lower.
But my basic tools are UX related now and the price point with subscriptions is much lower.
Apple designed the A12X to run inside a thin, fanless, battery-operated tablet.
So imagine what Apple can do when they design an ARM chip specifically for a laptop with a huge battery or a desktop with always-on power?
I'm getting confused by everyone thinking Apple is just gonna put existing A-series chips in different form-factors.
Guys... Apple is an incredible chip designer. They're gonna make new chips for their computers.
No, of course not. Someone might come out with an emulator, like the old Virtual PC, but it won’t run Intel code natively.
I think you’ve forgotten what the “V” in “VM” stands for. You can emulate an Intel (or any other kind of) CPU on a different processor architecture, but you can’t virtualize it.
MS have been working on ARM Win 10 for some time and apparently have a very good x86 emulator.
Maybe even Apple A-chips in the Surface! You never know.
I really have no problem with them switching from intel. My biggest concern is the ability to run all my pro Adobe apps like capture one. However, seems like Adobe knows this since they developed PS for the ipad pro.
What do you think Spec is benchmarking?..
“What is quite astonishing, is just how close Apple’s A11 and A12 are to current desktop CPUs. I haven’t had the opportunity to run things in a more comparable manner, but taking our server editor, Johan De Gelas’ recent figures from earlier this summer, we see that the A12 outperforms a moderately-clocked Skylake CPU in single-threaded performance. Of course there’s compiler considerations and various frequency concerns to take into account, but still we’re now talking about very small margins until Apple’s mobile SoCs outperform the fastest desktop CPUs in terms of ST performance. It will be interesting to get more accurate figures on this topic later on in the coming months.
“What is quite astonishing, is just how close Apple’s A11 and A12 are to current desktop CPUs. I haven’t had the opportunity to run things in a more comparable manner, but taking our server editor, Johan De Gelas’ recent figures from earlier this summer, we see that the A12 outperforms a moderately-clocked Skylake CPU in single-threaded performance. Of course there’s compiler considerations and various frequency concerns to take into account, but still we’re now talking about very small margins until Apple’s mobile SoCs outperform the fastest desktop CPUs in terms of ST performance. It will be interesting to get more accurate figures on this topic later on in the coming months.
Apple gives zero F's about that - sorry man
I feel ya', but honestly they don't care and I don't really blame them.
And the other way around: Xcode on iPad then possible ? Will the iPad become the Mac with touchscreen I’m waiting for so long ?
I don’t care much about the cpu itself as long Performance is ok for bigger Systems and Software get a reasonable transition path
I don’t care much about the cpu itself as long Performance is ok for bigger Systems and Software get a reasonable transition path
"Hi Mac, I see you are playing Candy Crush now. Did you know that PC can play real games?"