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motm95

macrumors 6502
Aug 19, 2010
359
1,434
127.0.0.1
Maybe, but I don't think any of the bugs he referred to at the time were related to Spectre or Meltdown.

Of course not. Just pointing out that he's been warning about undisclosed CPU and BIOS bugs and vulnerabilities for years. Comes up all the time on the misc@ and tech@ openbsd.org mailing lists.
 
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cmaier

Suspended
Jul 25, 2007
25,405
33,471
California
They don't have to pay for their own fabs anymore. There will not necessarily be another Bulldozer.
The problem with bulldozer was not fab-related (as is well documented if you google search for me, I predicted bulldozer's ****** performance before it was fabbed, in fact). And they haven't had to pay for their own fabs for years, yet they only just now got competitive again.
 
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MrBat

macrumors regular
May 11, 2017
175
443
The GPU team has nothing to do with the CPU team. All the way back to ATI, the GPU folks are used to delivering a range of GPUs at rapid intervals (mostly because they use ASIC design methodology, not custom design methodology). One has nothing to do with the other.

I assume you're aware that AMD owns RTG. I also assume you're aware of the existence of Kaby Lake-G CPU+GPU. AMD providing Intel with GPUs to mount on the same package, rivalling the GTX 1050m with less heat and less power consumption. Maybe now that GPP is dead we shall see more laptops with this package.

On the other hand, Ryzen and Ryzen 2 CPUs turned out to be pretty damn good. Not counting 16x cores Threadripper (64x PCIe lanes) and 32x cores EPYC (128x PCIe lanes).

Intel for the last years just pulled off a refresh of the very same CPU, with small tweaks and same core count 4. AMD spiced up the game, not Intel.
 
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darksithpro

macrumors 6502a
Oct 27, 2016
582
4,572
Intel seems to be gearing for a standalone GPU launch in 2020. I wonder how competitive they're going to be with nVidia's high end offerings. Seeing how the crypto miners have been eating up high end graphics cards and causing MSRP to increase, it does seem like a very profitable market these days. I doubt Intel will be able to beat nVidia's highest end offerings, because they don't have the experience, skilled people and the driver maturity nVidia has. No one can match nVidia's d3d11 performance.
 

nylonsteel

macrumors 68000
Nov 5, 2010
1,552
491
glad i saw the glory days on intel back in the hot 90's when i did contract work at different intel fab sites
 

rixax

macrumors member
Apr 15, 2012
70
28
Toronto
Excuses excuses just to avoid the flack they have been getting for being SO FAR behind in getting tat 32 gig MBP to us. Blame Intel.
 
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k27

macrumors 6502
Jan 23, 2018
330
418
Europe
Meltdown affects only Intel.

No, Apple too!

"Meltdown is a name given to an exploitation technique known as CVE-2017-5754 or "rogue data cache load." The Meltdown technique can enable a user process to read kernel memory. Our analysis suggests that it has the most potential to be exploited. Apple released mitigations for Meltdown in iOS 11.2, macOS 10.13.2, and tvOS 11.2, and also in Security Update 2018-001 for macOS Sierra and Security Update 2018-001 for OS X El Capitan. watchOS did not require mitigation."
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208394
 

cube

Suspended
May 10, 2004
17,011
4,972
The problem with bulldozer was not fab-related (as is well documented if you google search for me, I predicted bulldozer's ****** performance before it was fabbed, in fact). And they haven't had to pay for their own fabs for years, yet they only just now got competitive again.
I know they are two unrelated issues.

They only got competitive again now because they had to spend several years designing a completely new architecture while at the same time refreshing for survival.
[doublepost=1525722773][/doublepost]
No, Apple too!

"Meltdown is a name given to an exploitation technique known as CVE-2017-5754 or "rogue data cache load." The Meltdown technique can enable a user process to read kernel memory. Our analysis suggests that it has the most potential to be exploited. Apple released mitigations for Meltdown in iOS 11.2, macOS 10.13.2, and tvOS 11.2, and also in Security Update 2018-001 for macOS Sierra and Security Update 2018-001 for OS X El Capitan. watchOS did not require mitigation."
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208394
Already discussed above.
 

k27

macrumors 6502
Jan 23, 2018
330
418
Europe
To Spectre, not Meltdown.
Spectre V1!

According to my current knowledge Spectre V2 is only theoretically possible at AMD.

AMD and SpectreNG? We don't know yet.
Ryzenfall only works with root privileges.

=> AMD Ryzen would probably be the better CPU for the Mac
 
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JediZenMaster

Suspended
Mar 28, 2010
2,180
654
Seattle
Intel deserves this for the lies about spectre and meltdown. As I’ve said before I can’t wait to see intel stock slide more and more and hope they never recover financially
 

JosephAW

macrumors 603
May 14, 2012
5,964
7,917
Why haven't chip manufacturers moved away from clocks? As they get smaller they can go much faster than clocked chips.
 
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cube

Suspended
May 10, 2004
17,011
4,972
Asides from the obvious, that this new vulnerability affects ARM as well as Intel, what "better and better" are you talking about?
It is not clear that Meltdown actually affects shipped ARM chips.
 

djcerla

macrumors 68020
Apr 23, 2015
2,310
11,991
Italy
Spectre, Meltdown...

That’s just one of the factors. The poor, obscure Intel roadmap is a more important one.

Apple already had its PowerPC bottleneck, and this time they built their own way out of the muds.
 
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oneMadRssn

macrumors 603
Sep 8, 2011
5,981
14,006
Apple should built a semi custom processor with AMD.

Agreed. Once upon a time, Intel made semi custom CPUs for Apple too. I seem to recall the original low-power Macbook Air CPU was made just for Apple. I am sure AMD would be more than happy to accommodate whatever Apple wanted.
 

fairuz

macrumors 68020
Aug 27, 2017
2,486
2,589
Silicon Valley
Meltdown affects only Intel.
Meltdown was one bug that was easy for Intel to fix, and they already fixed it (and btw it affected ARM too). Spectre is the one that's hard, and it affects all of them. I don't see any reason to believe Apple or AMD will do better than Intel in fixing it.
[doublepost=1525728447][/doublepost]
No they shouldn’t. AMD is incapable of sustained success.
Agreed. They're occasionally better than Intel, but only for one generation at a time, and I'd rather not risk it.

They're like the cheap off-brand version of Intel. They've sold so much BS, like processors with gimmicky high clock speeds to attract less experienced buyers, and there are hidden problems like poor SSE support. I don't even waste my time considering them for builds anymore.
 
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ignatius345

macrumors 604
Aug 20, 2015
6,872
11,212
The mealy, passive-voice header on this slide says a lot:

intel2017details.png
 

fairuz

macrumors 68020
Aug 27, 2017
2,486
2,589
Silicon Valley
Intel deserves this for the lies about spectre and meltdown. As I’ve said before I can’t wait to see intel stock slide more and more and hope they never recover financially
Their stock hasn't been sliding. It went down for one day after Meltdown was presented, before everyone realized 1. competitors also have bugs and 2. this forces people to buy new CPUs anyway. Since then it's been going up. It's much higher now than at the end of January.
 
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