Intel iBook Processor Speculation

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

So, the difference between Core Solo and Core Duo at 1.66 Ghz is $32, and you don't think the extra core is worth that amount?

I think the price is worth it, but I'm not sure Apple will... I would love the low voltage duos (or even the slowest regular duos), but I fear that Apple will go for the cheapest option for the consumer machines, MacBook and Mac mini...

Oh, how I hope Apple will surprise me, in a positive way...

 

[jacobj]

I think the price is worth it, but I'm not sure Apple will... I would love the low voltage duos (or even the slowest regular duos), but I fear that Apple will go for the cheapest option for the consumer machines, MacBook and Mac mini...

Oh, how I hope Apple will surprise me, in a positive way...

I have been arguing that Apple would not put Dual Cores in the iBook replacement because it brings it too close to the MBP. Having given it a little more thought I believe that Apple will introduce a 3rd member to the notebook lineup. I think that we will see an ultra-low-end notebook with single cores and a mid-price model with the low end core duos without the GPU, keyboard, screen etc in the mid-price model.

Then will we see a gaming machine?

 

[syklee26]

$32 more profit in 100,000 computer means 3.2 million dollars. it means quite a lot for Apple.


I think if Apple indeed goes with duo with ibooks, the price will start at $1499. that makes perfect sense as 1.83 and 2.0 has $500 difference. 1.67 at $1499 with skimpier features...such as 60gb HD, 64mb vRam, 1280x768 max resolution.

and $999 will be core solo processor.

 

[gnasher729]

$32 more profit in 100,000 computer means 3.2 million dollars. it means quite a lot for Apple.


I think if Apple indeed goes with duo with ibooks, the price will start at $1499. that makes perfect sense as 1.83 and 2.0 has $500 difference. 1.67 at $1499 with skimpier features...such as 60gb HD, 64mb vRam, 1280x768 max resolution.

and $999 will be core solo processor.

If Apple ships an iBook with a core solo processor, I can tell you where they can stick it.

 

[gnasher729]

I think that apple will want to put "Core" in everything simply for the marketing.

They'll have to rename "Celeron M" to "Core Mini" then. If you think it is a bad idea, it would be a worse idea to ship anything with a Core Solo processor.

 

[godbout]

They'll have to rename "Celeron M" to "Core Mini" then. If you think it is a bad idea, it would be a worse idea to ship anything with a Core Solo processor.

I don't disagree in principle (although the core solo is not that bad, at least its better on battery). It is just that I think that they will not release an intel mac with anything but the "new intel chips" and I don't think that they will count Celeron M's as being new (even thought they are now built 65nm etc?). Anyways, count on NOT seeing Celeron M on any apple box. (of course just MHO)

 

[gekko513]

Why is there only one Core Solo model in the price list. I think it misses some models.

I've yet to see a fabrication process that consistenly yields processors capable of running at the same frequency. There will be produced Core Solos at different speeds and I don't think Intel intends to throw them away.

T1100 (Single) - 1.33GHz
T1200 (Single) - 1.5GHz
T1300 (Single) - 1.66GHz
T1400 (Single) - 1.83GHz

 

[jacobj]

Why is there only one Core Solo model in the price list. I think it misses some models.

I've yet to see a fabrication process that consistenly yields processors capable of running at the same frequency. There will be produced Core Solos at different speeds and I don't think Intel intends to throw them away.

T1100 (Single) - 1.33GHz
T1200 (Single) - 1.5GHz
T1300 (Single) - 1.66GHz
T1400 (Single) - 1.83GHz

and i think that there will be an apple notebook with them in..apple needs to introduce an macbook mini .. i.e. they need to compete at the really low end... SJ wasn't wrong in his predictions about the laptops..more and more people are getting them as their main machines and the likes of Dell are offering them cheaply with low specs for those that don't want to pay too much.. Apple must compete.. before the mac mini i would have understood people saying that this will never happen..i think apple has changed

 

[Xephian]

It would be nice to see everything dual core and higher.

 

[kadajawi]

Hm, I think there will be only one Core Solo... I'd say Core Solos are processors where one of the processors is defective, so they deactivate that one. And somehow I doubt that the remaining CPU would be as good as a 2,16 GHz. Also I think it makes sense in the line up, the Core Solo is placed as the cheapest option.

I would say there will be a MacBook (no iBook anymore), following the iBook, and it will be a 1,66 GHz Core Solo in the basic version and 1,66 GHz Core Duo as an option.
The 17" MacBook Pro would have a 2 GHz at minimum and a 2,16 GHz at max., the 12" one will have the low voltage ones, 1.5 for basic version, better one 1,66 GHz. Maybe make low voltage an option on MacBook and MacBook Pro 15".

I'd say that Apple would like to differenciate between MacBook and MacBook Pro, also in CPU speed. I don't think the Core Solo would be much slower than the Core Duo, I'd say for the cheapest box its ok to use the slowest CPU.

And the Mac Mini... as much as I would love to see a 2,16 GHz Core Duo in it... 2 variants: Core Solo 1,66 for the basic version, Core Duo 1,66 for the better one. But that also depends on the jobs it will have to do... maybe it will require a more powerful CPU.

Btw.: Sure the people were expecting Pentium Ms for the MacBook Pro? It was well known that Intels dualcore Pentium M follow up codenamed Yonah was expected for the beginning of the new year. I'd say at least it has been expected to have a Yonah, if not its follow up.

 

[jacobj]

It would be nice to see everything dual core and higher.

but what about those that cannot afford them? $32 dollars on CPU, $15 on HD, $40 on GPU, $50 on extensibility, $40 RAM, $100 on display, $20 on battery, $10 on keyboard etc, etc.. it all adds up to a cheap machine for the low end of the market.

 

[milo]

$32 more profit in 100,000 computer means 3.2 million dollars. it means quite a lot for Apple.

It will mean zero to them if they ship the core solo and nobody buys it because it runs like crap.

Cheaper manufacturing costs only pay off if you can sell the machines.

 

[gnasher729]

Hm, I think there will be only one Core Solo... I'd say Core Solos are processors where one of the processors is defective, so they deactivate that one. And somehow I doubt that the remaining CPU would be as good as a 2,16 GHz. Also I think it makes sense in the line up, the Core Solo is placed as the cheapest option.

Just in case nobody has posted this yet: Core Solo has about the same performance as Celeron M, for more than twice the price. It also has about the same price as Core Duo, for half the performance. In other words, nobody except Dell would ever put that chip into any computer.

 

[jacobj]

It will mean zero to them if they ship the core solo and nobody buys it because it runs like crap.

Cheaper manufacturing costs only pay off if you can sell the machines.

see my previous post... the CPU is one element. Apple have always built well balanced machines and the better the CPU the better everything else has to be.. because it does not appeal to you does not appeal to others. the mac mini holds no interest for me and yet it sells.

 

[gnasher729]

Why is there only one Core Solo model in the price list. I think it misses some models.

Because Core Solo is the garbage that falls out from the Core Duo production.

Each and every Core Solo chip is a Core Duo that doesn't work properly. One of the cores is broken. If one of the cores is broken, chances are good that the other core isn't capable of running very fast either. And Intel will try their very very best not to produce too many Core Solos, because each one is one lost sale of a Core Duo. There is only one speed, because there are not many of them anyway, and no market for different speeds.

 

[jefhatfield]

I'll take a 12"/13" MacBook with a low voltage dual 1.5 without optical drive. Imagine the battery life on something like that...

of course, this would mean a small external optical drive like in many pc laptops of this variety...not really bad, but an extra item to lug around

the lcd screen sucks up battery life, too

a core solo ulv would work fine with ibook with optical drive built in and satisfy the target market...a core duo of some sort could be an upgrade option for the top of the line ibook i suppose

 

[jacobj]

Just in case nobody has posted this yet: Core Solo has about the same performance as Celeron M, for more than twice the price. It also has about the same price as Core Duo, for half the performance. In other words, nobody except Dell would ever put that chip into any computer.

it's floating point performance is considerably better than a Celeron M.

 

[jefhatfield]

It will mean zero to them if they ship the core solo and nobody buys it because it runs like crap.

Cheaper manufacturing costs only pay off if you can sell the machines.

ever heard of dell, or microsoft?

but it's not apple's style to cut many corners....sure they cut some here and there but still nothing like most pc companies

pc companies that don't cut corners are alien and sony, but then again, they are not priced very modestly, either...and are not market top sellers...and they still run windows, the number one target in the computer world

 

[mrgreen4242]

:SNIP:

$1199 USD (would they dare raise the price?)
:SNIP:

I don't think so. With the mini they have shown their commitment to having a lower cost product line. They have a high/overprice model with the MacBook Pro. The iMac is actually pretty cheap for what you get. The iBook (or MacBook) is going to stay cheap. I betting on the same $999/1299 price points, or perhaps an even lower $799-899/1099-1199 rangem if they decide to go with non-Yonah chips.

 

[gnasher729]

it's floating point performance is considerably better than a Celeron M.

And its cache is considerably slower. And of course fp performance is half that of Core Duo which costs ten percent more.

 

[Mr. Mister]

It's possible that they'll take a loss on the iBook and offer it for very cheap to compete with Dell entry-level laptops, and get more new computer users and switchers over to the Mac side.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

of course, this would mean a small external optical drive like in many pc laptops of this variety...not really bad, but an extra item to lug around

I find that I rarely use the internal combo drive on my 12" iBook, ever, home or away... and my external DVD-burner stays put at home, all the time...

I prefer the external for most things, especially for ripping CDs after an accident with a piece of a CD that broke off inside my internal drive... try getting that out of a slot-loading drive...

So, I'm not thinking of the battery it consumes when I want to exclude the optical drive, but first and foremost the form factor. The extra space could be used for a bigger (capacity) battery and/or to reduce the size (ie. thickness) of the MacBook, compared to the iBook...

I wouldn't miss an optical drive for a second... if you want to exchange data and, for some reason must do that a place where there's no network (wired/wireless) and the other part don't have Bluetooth, get a small USB thumbdrive...

 

[Meemoo]

Why wouldn't they just use the Core Solo as default and have Core Duo as an upgradable option?

That would be ingenious since consumers could add on the Core Duo then weigh the cost of buying a MacBook and upgrading versus the cost of getting a MacBook Pro...
Just like people who start to buy a mac mini, then add the options they want only to end up buying an iMac.

 

[AidenShaw]

speed and "broken" not necessarily linked

If one of the cores is broken, chances are good that the other core isn't capable of running very fast either.

"Broken" usually means a specific defect - for example a contaminant or flaw in the wafer.

"Speed binning" is due to more subtle issues - like a few atoms missing here or there.

Do you have any evidence that a catastrophic defect in one area of the wafer will affect atomic alignment in far-away areas of the wafer?

I would suspect that Intel just decided to downclock all the Solos to the bottom of the range - regardless of how fast the surviving CPU could actually run.

__________________

Ten or twelve years ago I was visiting a CPU production facility where they were making CPUs using the 350 nm process (cutting edge for that time).

On the topic of "defects" there was a display which said that if one increased the size of the chip to the size of the island of Great Britain - a defect the size of a manhole cover could cause the chip to be rejected.

On a 65 nm process, I wonder if the defect would be the size of a salad plate?

 

[milo]

see my previous post... the CPU is one element. Apple have always built well balanced machines and the better the CPU the better everything else has to be.. because it does not appeal to you does not appeal to others. the mac mini holds no interest for me and yet it sells.

It's not a question of opinion, it's a question of value.

If they ship a solo (or generally single core) laptop, it shouldn't cost more than about $750. If apple ships a $1299 ibook, it needs dual core to be competitive. How many solo machines do you think they would sell at $1299 if there's a macbook with duo for $1499? Or imac at $1299??

People won't settle for HALF the processing power for a price that's only 10-20% lower. People will settle for poor performance in a $499 box, they won't in a $1299 box.

ever heard of dell, or microsoft? QUOTE]

Yeah, so far, Dell hasn't announced any Solo machines. In general, they give you more hardwrae for the money than Apple does. If Apple ships a core solo laptop, you don't think Dell will have a Core duo box for the same price?