Man, after reading the news, it's pretty clear that this isn't a matter of being right or wrong, but a matter of pushing USB-C. Apple could have kept 2 standard size USB ports together with 2 new USB-C ports. That would have been what we needed (support the accessories you have while support future accessories as well). However they went into an only USB-C solution in order to force its adoption. And then you even have the removal of MagSafe which is adding insult to injury, because it really means "we are so interested in USB-C that we even don't care about the reasons that made you buy Apple products".
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Intel Looks to Broaden Thunderbolt 3 Adoption by Integrating Into Future CPUs, Eliminating Royalties
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Same here. My two uses for Thunderbolt:
1) As a Display Port (when not using HDMI, which is basically never)
2) With a USB 3.0 adapter to provide my 2011 Mac Mini with something faster than 2.0 speeds. (A one-to-one adapter cost me $100!)
I use it all the time. MiniDP to DVI for my monitor
But seriously I want a thunderbolt dock but $200-300 is waay to much for what it is.
Intel will wait one more year before releasing the specs for Thunderbolt 3 to the third party vendors. They still have not released a cpu with built in thunderbolt3, and only offers support via an extra chipset, which adds cost and complexity to computer construction.
I think you are greatly overestimating the adoption rate for thunderbolt 3.
The fact that Thunderbolt3 requires one separate intel exclusive chip in the computer and one separate intel exclusive chip in the device (and will do so for at least one more year) pretty much confirms Apple made a mistake to ditch all other ports.
USB 3 is the best thing to happen since the first USB!
And now this.
I hope there are a flood of accessories and whatnot in the next year or two (not to mention iPhone 8 adopting it maybe?)
And now this.
I hope there are a flood of accessories and whatnot in the next year or two (not to mention iPhone 8 adopting it maybe?)
I am curious but can't find this info online. What happen if you plug in thunderbolt 3 cable in USB-C port? Will it work USB-C speed or not work at all?
I know you can plug USB-C cable in thunderbolt 3 port and will use USB-C speed. Just couldn't find info other way round.
I know you can plug USB-C cable in thunderbolt 3 port and will use USB-C speed. Just couldn't find info other way round.
By the time TB3 get's integrated, PCI-E 4.0 will be out.
We need TB4 that supports HDMI 2.1 & DP 1.3, 1.4, 1.5. This is the version that SHOULD be integrated.
If you want to daisy chain a couple of 5K or 8K monitors that can handle 10bits, HDR, plus you want to use USB 3.1 Gen 2 devices, TB3 is not fast enough.
We need TB4 that supports HDMI 2.1 & DP 1.3, 1.4, 1.5. This is the version that SHOULD be integrated.
If you want to daisy chain a couple of 5K or 8K monitors that can handle 10bits, HDR, plus you want to use USB 3.1 Gen 2 devices, TB3 is not fast enough.
This is nothing new... Apple's always "forced" uses.... what about getting rid of the 30-pin on iPhones ?
The "transition" is always an adapter to ease users along the way. As long as adapters can be made, Apple or any company can do what they like with much less concern, as the reason users having issues would be just "Well all u need an adapter"....
It's been that way with getting MicroSD cards to fit as well back in the say into PCMCIA slots in PC's. With Apple, its probably just allot more ... rushed...
I'm just glad everything starts from an external point of view, then gradually goes into one chip,, make more space,, and oh ya, while were at it, load the machine up with all these batteries and more more long lasting Mac's (gotta use the extra space for something right,,,? so why not.... its what users want)
It's all theoretical though and most likely internally rather than using an external device. When was the last time you transferred anything at 1Gbps?
USB 2.0 is max is 480bps and I have never had a device that transfers anywhere close to that.
I would rather have 4 TB3 ports, and use a USB 3.0 portable hub. Just one port can support so many devices!
How much is this royalty? Per port or just to use the TB chip in general? Will Apple pass along the cost savings to it's customers? (just kidding on the last question...we know THAT answer!)
Wasn't FireWire licensing something like 25 CENTS per port?
Hardly a barrier to adoption.
The 15" MBP (late 2016) Thunderbolt 3 implementation appears to already connect directly from the USB-C to the CPU although it still requires an Alpine Ridge TB3 controller (obviously). This is makes the 15" MBP the most ideal TB3 host especially for external GPU(at least until Intel incorporates TB3 into the CPU/SoC).
Most TB3 including the one on the 13" MBP and a whole host of Windows laptops use the more conventional 4 x PCIe 3.0 (or 2 x PCIe 3.0 which is the case with Dell XPS line) lanes going from the USB-C to the controller instead of directly to the CPU.
You can read more about TB3/external GPU and the MacBook here.
Most TB3 including the one on the 13" MBP and a whole host of Windows laptops use the more conventional 4 x PCIe 3.0 (or 2 x PCIe 3.0 which is the case with Dell XPS line) lanes going from the USB-C to the controller instead of directly to the CPU.
You can read more about TB3/external GPU and the MacBook here.
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Spread that across 1 million users, and the cost is nothing.
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Maybe he means how FireWire stuff generally costed a lot more to the consumer because it was so scarce. I think it was also more costly to build things that used it for reasons other than licensing.
It was hard to market it because USB 2.0 had its bull**** claim about 480mbit/s bandwidth that was higher than FW400's 400mbit/s, except it really did a lot less.
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Yeah, it looks like what Intel will eventually roll out will be much different from what Apple just forced.
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Why did anyone want an ARM-based Mac in the first place? ARM is for tiny devices like phones. Apple put an Intel Core M in their smallest laptop, and Microsoft has shown that their Surface with Intel's mobile i5 and i7 CPUs can achieve similar battery life to an iPad Pro.
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You must have. 480mbit/s = 60MiB/s, less any modern HDD's read or write throughput. Your ethernet ports do 1gbit/s, and if you have a newer Mac with an SSD, the read speed is at least 8gbit/s.
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Scale usually decreases per unit costs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economies_of_scale
The fact that we're seeing iPhone's price raise, while costs continue to go down due to scale and r&d fatigue, in addition to Apple's margins increasing (average of 38% i believe on their financials last quarter) indicates that the actual price of the iPhone isn't determined based on Cost to manufacture but a price point that was selected.
Examples:
Dell XPS 9350 / 9360 / 9550 / 9560 / 9365
Dell Precision 5510 / 5520 / 7510 / 7520 / 7710 / 7720
Dell Latitude 5480 / 7480 / 7370...
HP Spectre / Zbook / Envy (some models...)
Lenovo P50 / P51 / P71 / Yoga (some models...)
Full list from Dell:
http://www.dell.com/support/article...underbolt-3-40gbps-data-transfer-rate?lang=EN
Other List from Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Thunderbolt-compatible_devices
1 million devices, each of which cost $1000 plus, so ... the the 25c cost is still, in relative terms, just 25c of that $1000.
So to say 'it adds up' is idiotic.
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An SSD dying after only 3 years? Where are you buying your SSDs, Seagate?
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My main machine is still a 2008 Mac Pro, not because I like having an old machine but because it still does the job perfectly. It's been the most future-proof computer ever for me.
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So does the profit from the sale of your 1 million devices.
So, what's your point, again?
40gbps so what. Most disk arrays and other external devices get nowhere near that speed.
I'm happy with Thunderbolt 2 and USB ports being distinct entities, and cables just work.
But say I am interested in a 13" MBP. Does anyone know of a TB3 to TB2 cable?
It should be a simple thing to make. Same protocol over the wire, just different PHY at each end.
Or do I have to pay for a $50 adapter, that comes in any color I want so long as it is white?
I'm happy with Thunderbolt 2 and USB ports being distinct entities, and cables just work.
But say I am interested in a 13" MBP. Does anyone know of a TB3 to TB2 cable?
It should be a simple thing to make. Same protocol over the wire, just different PHY at each end.
Or do I have to pay for a $50 adapter, that comes in any color I want so long as it is white?
Here's a list of DOZENS with USB-C/TB3 ports. Yes, the MacBooks are on their too; but the list is almost all Windows laptops...
http://www.ultrabookreview.com/10579-laptops-thunderbolt-3/
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Keeping in mind, of course, that a recent study of battery-life claims showed that Apple was the ONLY manufacturer to meet or exceed their published battery life claims.
Most were claiming nearly DOUBLE the actual, tested battery-life.
http://www.which.co.uk/news/2017/03/which-laptop-battery-tests-manufacturers-overstate/
My point was that a company might look primarily at the bottom line and the features that its users most need. Adding $250,000 (assuming 25¢ per device) to the manufacturing cost for licensing fees (on top of the extra hardware cost) might tilt the balance against such technology.
The USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 port: The great thing about standards is that we have so many from which to choose. There is no mistaking USB3 from Thunderbolt 2.
If we're going to have a Unified Connector (you know, like USB), then it really needs to provide everything that the port-spec entails, not "Well, that didn't work. Let's try plugging it in on the other side. Hmm. Still doesn't work. Maybe we need a USB-C to Thunderbolt 3 dongle." "Okay, flip it over. yeah, I know, but do it anyway... Still nothing? Hmm. Try Repairing Disk Permissions. No?" Let's install Mavericks. Oh fffffffffuuuuuuuddddddddddddddggggge..."
If we're going to have a Unified Connector (you know, like USB), then it really needs to provide everything that the port-spec entails, not "Well, that didn't work. Let's try plugging it in on the other side. Hmm. Still doesn't work. Maybe we need a USB-C to Thunderbolt 3 dongle." "Okay, flip it over. yeah, I know, but do it anyway... Still nothing? Hmm. Try Repairing Disk Permissions. No?" Let's install Mavericks. Oh fffffffffuuuuuuuddddddddddddddggggge..."