Intel Powerbook and iMac in January?

[iEdd]

You have some good points, Ljunberg.
And yes, there is this misperception of rosetta. There will be a speed decrease. As soon as that's said, people start imagening VPC's level of slow. If we have 2.4Ghz single processor laptop emulating a program such as photoshop with rosetta, I'd say it would run like a 1.6-1.8Ghz* PPC. By that time, it is about the same speed as the current powerbooks, so for PPC apps, there is no comparative loss.

*Based on educated guess. Sizes may vary. Check the wattage of your microwave oven for actual cooking times.

 

[pubwvj]

There will be a speed decrease {with Rosetta}. As soon as that's said, people start imagening VPC's level of slow.

The speed of Rosetta is not the biggest problem. The big gotcha for many people is going to be that Rosetta and the new MacIntels don't do Classic applications. This is a massive problem for a lot of individuals and corporations. Our company has gigabytes and decads of data in pre-OSX application file formats where there is NO upgrade path. Without those Classic applications we can't access our accounting, publishing, billing, customer database, employee payroll, book layouts, magazine layouts, etc.

The simple answer for many people is going to be NOT to upgrade to MacIntel computers. We'll just stick with the old PPC machines and keep them running. If people end up having to finally replace the machines and lose access to all their data they will give serious consideration to Windows. At that point Apple is going to offer not particular advantage so why bother sticking with the Mac.

I greatly prefer MacOSX but if Apple is going to cut off support for legacy applications and data they are going to lose me and a lot of other customers. Apple needs to continue to support Classic applications.

 

[CalfCanuck]

Aperture probably closer to Intel porting than expected...

Came across a great preview of Aperture based on talks with the developers and posted in an Aperture thread...

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/162844/

Here's a key quote, though:
"It’s also important to note that Aperture makes huge use of the power of the system’s graphics card, relying on GPU (Graphics Processing Unit) calls for its image processing prowess. This means that users with an older system but a newer card might see higher speeds than a user with a newer system but the entry-level graphics card. It also means that future Macs built around the Intel platform won’t suffer a performance hit due to the architecture’s lack of Velocity Engine, the subset of the processor that would be used for graphics tasks in the absence of a powerful graphics card."

So here's at least one Pro app ready for powerful computers, again assuming they realease them sometimes soon!

 

[electronboy]

they better give us plenty of notice before yanking the PowerPC PowerBooks. We need at least three more of them and do not want to be stuck with first gen. Intel PowerBooks as Adobe and Extensis will not have universal binaries ready by that time. We don't want to run those apps under rosetta as the performance would suck.

 

[electronboy]

The speed of Rosetta is not the biggest problem. The big gotcha for many people is going to be that Rosetta and the new MacIntels don't do Classic applications. This is a massive problem for a lot of individuals and corporations. Our company has gigabytes and decads of data in pre-OSX application file formats where there is NO upgrade path. Without those Classic applications we can't access our accounting, publishing, billing, customer database, employee payroll, book layouts, magazine layouts, etc.

The simple answer for many people is going to be NOT to upgrade to MacIntel computers. We'll just stick with the old PPC machines and keep them running. If people end up having to finally replace the machines and lose access to all their data they will give serious consideration to Windows. At that point Apple is going to offer not particular advantage so why bother sticking with the Mac.

I greatly prefer MacOSX but if Apple is going to cut off support for legacy applications and data they are going to lose me and a lot of other customers. Apple needs to continue to support Classic applications.

I agree and disagree with your statements.

First, the speed of Rosetta for large applications running on laptops, which are always slower than desktops, will be an issue. None of my users will be running apps such as InDesign or Photoshop or Final Cut Studio under Rosetta on an Intel PowerBook. Some apps which make calls to the Velocity Engine may not function properly under Rosetta. (Last I heard.)

Second, OS9 is DEAD, DEAD DEAD! Why haven't people migrated the data to an OSX application or another platform all together? OSX has been around for 5 years now. Time to get rid of OS9. I suspect that Apple will eliminate Classic support in 10.5 and rightfully so. How long does it need to hang on? If you really need to keep running OS9 get an old G4 and install OS9 on it! Why run Classic? I never liked Classic and it creates all sorts of font management problems for the creative folks.

Third, I agree that unless Apple makes some compelling reason to remain on Mac hardware and MacOS after the transition, people will start to evaluate their options on the dark side. Once Apple makes the transistion to Intel they cannot keep charging a fortune for equipment that always lags behind industry trends. The market will not allow it.

 

[iEdd]

I don't understand this "classic problem". Your docs should open with SOMETHING in OSX, and in future they shouldn't be made with classic. If you were using a major program in classic, it would've been made into an OSX version 4 years or so ago. And of course the point that still remains, if you are behind enough to use a 5 yr dead operating system, you don't need a new computer

 

[jevau]

new powerbook or hold out?

i've been reading all the forums and rumor sites about the new powerbooks being released this january and i am definately confused. i'm a freshman in college and a visual arts major interested in a 17 inch powerbook for next semester and i was just wondering if it would be worth it to hold out or just to get a 1.67 ghz model right now? would it be a good investment for the next couple of years to buy a 1.67 model right now? i just wanted a second opinion before i drop the money.

 

[CalfCanuck]

i've been reading all the forums and rumor sites about the new powerbooks being released this january and i am definately confused. i'm a freshman in college and a visual arts major interested in a 17 inch powerbook for next semester and i was just wondering if it would be worth it to hold out or just to get a 1.67 ghz model right now? would it be a good investment for the next couple of years to buy a 1.67 model right now? i just wanted a second opinion before i drop the money.

It depends when you need it. You have to remember that even if a new PB DOES get announced in January, there are both shipping delays for new systems and the massive backlog of others who are also waiting to order the "new Intel Mac". So even if it does come out, it might be hard to get a hold of one before late spring.

Have you thought about the option of getting a cheaper temporary iBook for about $1000 off Amazon, reserving your student discount to buy the "real" 17" you want later in the year? You can do almost everything on an iBook that you can do on a PB, esp. if you run an external monitor. It might just take a little longer to do every task. But that lets you keep moving with learning the Mac design programs - and these transfer from computer to computer almost seemlessly with the transfer utility on new Macs.

http://www.macprices.com/ibooktracker.shtml

 

[visualanté]

i bought a pb 1.67 17.......its display is more color accurate and resale will b higher

It depends when you need it. You have to remember that even if a new PB DOES get announced in January, there are both shipping delays for new systems and the massive backlog of others who are also waiting to order the "new Intel Mac". So even if it does come out, it might be hard to get a hold of one before late spring.

Have you thought about the option of getting a cheaper temporary iBook for about $1000 off Amazon, reserving your student discount to buy the "real" 17" you want later in the year? You can do almost everything on an iBook that you can do on a PB, esp. if you run an external monitor. It might just take a little longer to do every task. But that lets you keep moving with learning the Mac design programs - and these transfer from computer to computer almost seemlessly with the transfer utility on new Macs.

http://www.macprices.com/ibooktracker.shtml

 

[jevau]

It depends when you need it. You have to remember that even if a new PB DOES get announced in January, there are both shipping delays for new systems and the massive backlog of others who are also waiting to order the "new Intel Mac". So even if it does come out, it might be hard to get a hold of one before late spring.

Have you thought about the option of getting a cheaper temporary iBook for about $1000 off Amazon, reserving your student discount to buy the "real" 17" you want later in the year? You can do almost everything on an iBook that you can do on a PB, esp. if you run an external monitor. It might just take a little longer to do every task. But that lets you keep moving with learning the Mac design programs - and these transfer from computer to computer almost seemlessly with the transfer utility on new Macs.

http://www.macprices.com/ibooktracker.shtml

i have thought about getting just something low end, but i was thinking if i got a 1.67 PB now, i would be OK for 2 or 3 years, so i can upgrade during my junior or senior year when i'll probably have more money. i mean i should be able to run say CS2 or Aperture on my 1.67 and be fine for a while, right?

 

[mpw]

i have thought about getting just something low end, but i was thinking if i got a 1.67 PB now, i would be OK for 2 or 3 years, so i can upgrade during my junior or senior year when i'll probably have more money. i mean i should be able to run say CS2 or Aperture on my 1.67 and be fine for a while, right?

Aperture should run but the recommended minimum system is a Dual 2.0Ghz G5 with 2Gb RAM, so I'm guessing using it on anything less wouldn't be a pleasant experience.

 

[iEdd]

Aperture should run but the recommended minimum system is a Dual 2.0Ghz G5 with 2Gb RAM, so I'm guessing using it on anything less wouldn't be a pleasant experience.

That's intense. If you want Aperture on a portable, wait for a dual core 2Ghz Yonah in a PB with at least 1.5GB ram. Hopefully that will be possible in about 2-3 months.

 

[generik]

I wonder if Powermacs will get a speed bump too?

Makes no sense to sell dualcore yonahs 2.0 and dual core G5 2.0 at approximately the same price point.

Edit: Especially when the laptop has wireless, a keyboard, and a screen mounted into a tiny form factor while the PM doesn't even have wireless..

 

[supersalzme]

I wonder if Powermacs will get a speed bump too?

Makes no sense to sell dualcore yonahs 2.0 and dual core G5 2.0 at approximately the same price point.

Edit: Especially when the laptop has wireless, a keyboard, and a screen mounted into a tiny form factor while the PM doesn't even have wireless..

Which makes me think everyone in here is jumping to conclusions on the processor they are going to put in the gen A powerbooks.

But...if they do have the dual core yonah....I will buy one...that's for sure.

 

[generik]

Second, OS9 is DEAD, DEAD DEAD! Why haven't people migrated the data to an OSX application or another platform all together? OSX has been around for 5 years now. Time to get rid of OS9. I suspect that Apple will eliminate Classic support in 10.5 and rightfully so. How long does it need to hang on? If you really need to keep running OS9 get an old G4 and install OS9 on it! Why run Classic? I never liked Classic and it creates all sorts of font management problems for the creative folks.

So?

1) He is the customer
2) He is the one who makes demands
3) Apple should ****, stop being such a bully, and deliver the goods.

If you walk into a major financial institution, look at their computers, and scoff "Haha, mainframes are so 1950s", let's see who is the one who will get laughed out the door. Some businesses do have legacy applications that are really too entrenched in their operations to "upgrade" every so often, and don't blame them, blame the vendor who failed to provide a bloody upgrade path, breaking binary compatibility from time to time.

If anything the original poster should relegate to the thought that serious business should be done on UNIX/Windows servers, instead of stupid toy computers from a fruit company.

 

[generik]

Which makes me think everyone in here is jumping to conclusions on the processor they are going to put in the gen A powerbooks.

But...if they do have the dual core yonah....I will buy one...that's for sure.

I sure hope they roll the quad (dual socket logic boards) down to the lower clock configurations too

 

[pubwvj]

Why run Classic? I never liked Classic and it creates all sorts of font management problems for the creative folks.

For most legacy applications we're not talking creativity. For the most part these are either:

1) documents (books, magazines, etc) that were created in applications that are no longer being supported today. The creativity was there back when they were created. New documents are being created on newer software but we still need access to the old docs. It is too expensive to transfer everything over to new applications. We're talking huge volumes of data.

2) databases (accounting, payroll, employee data, customer records, etc). The cost of transitioning these everytime Apple wants to bring out some neat new processor change is rediculous. Businesses last a lot longer than chip cycles.

3) utilities that do some very specific tasks that we need and are not available under OSX.

I don't understand this "classic problem". Your docs should open with SOMETHING in OSX

No. See above.

if you are behind enough to use a 5 yr dead operating system, you don't need a new computer

The problem is when the older computers stop working and can no longer be repaired. 5 years is an absurdely short cycle to be thinking in. Consumerism gone nutty - a product of our throw away society. Another very big topic in itself.

Legacy data and applications is a very big problem. Maybe you are fortunate enough not to be affected by it but many businesses and individuals are. Personal, business and historical information is being lost because of this problem.

 

[generik]

Ultimately the answer is.. Opensource.

Had your documents been in open formats, and comply to open transparent standards, it would be trivial to just chuck the specs to some software shop and get them to code OSX/XII/XIII versions of anything.

Sadly many vendors are too selfish to do that

 

[pubwvj]

Ultimately the answer is.. Opensource.

Yes, but that is today and tomorrow. The issue with legacy applications is stuff that is in data formats from the 1980's mostly. I realize that is longer than some users can remember or have even been alive but there are many businesses that have been around that long and longer who have stuff in those formats that they still need and will need for decades to come.

it would be trivial to just chuck the specs to some software shop and get them to code OSX/XII/XIII versions of anything.

Trivial, no. Expensive, very. Ironically, it is actually now illegal to "crack" some old data formats thanks to our wise and wonderous congressional critters (note use of lower case) with their putting through the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act).

 

[generik]

Trivial, no. Expensive, very. Ironically, it is actually now illegal to "crack" some old data formats thanks to our wise and wonderous congressional critters (note use of lower case) with their putting through the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the case of your own documents, it is *your* own IP! How is it wrong to crack the data formats in those instances?

I also noticed that the DMCA did have a provision allowing for reverse engineering for the sake of interoperability... however all said and done, yes, the DMCA is one hell of a crap law.

Just my 0.02.

 

[xraycat]

ok right christmas and my birthday are coming up, and i decided after many years of being a pc user.. i wanted to change to a powerbook, for reliability and better graphical performance.

However now i dont know what to do because of these intel processors that are apparently due for january.. i honestly didnt expect them so soon but i' am not sure whether i should wait as they will be faster but supposedly not as much compatability/updates with software.

i am 17 and use a comptuer fo photography , graphic design and web design, using programs such as photoshop, illustratuor flash dreamweave and 3d design tools such as pro desktop, maya and modo.

does anyone have any recomendations whether to wait or not?

 

[Blackheart]

ok right christmas and my birthday are coming up, and i decided after many years of being a pc user.. i wanted to change to a powerbook, for reliability and better graphical performance.

However now i dont know what to do because of these intel processors that are apparently due for january.. i honestly didnt expect them so soon but i' am not sure whether i should wait as they will be faster but supposedly not as much compatability/updates with software.

i am 17 and use a comptuer fo photography , graphic design and web design, using programs such as photoshop, illustratuor flash dreamweave and 3d design tools such as pro desktop, maya and modo.

does anyone have any recomendations whether to wait or not?

Know this about rumors surrounding Intel Powerbooks:
1) A rumor is just that... a rumor... they may not be released for MONTHS after January and you may be waiting during this entire time.
2) It will be Rev. A. Know that first generation products (from any company, really) tend to have problems.

Whether to buy now or wait, it's specific to your situation. If you currently have a computer that suits you fine in what you need to do, then I'd wait and get bleeding edge. But again, that's just me. You may not fancy bleeding edge as much as I.

 

[generik]

2) It will be Rev. A. Know that first generation products (from any company, really) tend to have problems.

Not really, it is true for Apple only.. don't taint the entire industry because of one lousy company.

I never had any issues buying *any* thinkpads ever, despite the release dates of their chipsets/cpu. Apple is always the one stuffing it up and charging us OUTRAGEOUS prices to be beta testers.

 

[maverick808]

Hmmmmm...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/12/06/apple_intel_macs_due_june/

 

[generik]

Hmmmmm...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/12/06/apple_intel_macs_due_june/

6th of June on the 6th year of the 2nd millenium?

Hmmm.... when Steve unveils the new Macintel line Satan and Bill Gates will rise up and reap the souls of mac users worldwide