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Steve Jobs said that Apple started to develop the new (current) iMac the day the older ones were announced (one year before).
Wouldn't that mean that they need about a year for the next iMac, too (not only 3 month)?

IMO, the first MacIntels will be the minis and PBs.
 
After the latest PB upgrade debacle (the much-anticipated, unimpressive October 2005 PowerBook Speed Dump), I don't believe anything anyone says about PB updates anymore, least of all AppleInsider. Now MacOSRumors, on the other hand...that's about the only reliable source out there...:D
 
tom_s said:
Steve Jobs said that Apple started to develop the new (current) iMac the day the older ones were announced (one year before).
Wouldn't that mean that they need about a year for the next iMac, too (not only 3 month)?
Not necessarily. How do we know they weren't designing the Intel and PPC versions at the same time?
 
ksz said:
Their executive team appears to have very good credentials, but so did the Transmeta team. Transmeta's goal was to produce high performance processors at very low wattage. Unfortunately, the Crusoe failed to live up to its performance promises.

I wish PA Semi every success, but it's too early and completely imprudent for a company with Apple's requirements to bank its future on a 2-year old startup.

The two companies are in different leagues when it comes to credentials.

I have not said that Apple should bank its future on a 2 year old startup, I said that the PA Semi processor wouldn't be a suitable Mac processor anyway - better than a G4 and maybe the G5 in terms of processing power, and only great in terms of power consumption, but otherwise better for the embedded market.

Apple is having to make this change, they have no alternative. They'll probably reassess what the options are every couple of years of course, so that they can release on whatever is the best processor at the time, be it x86, x86-64 or PowerPC, should it ever make a massive comeback.
 
ksz said:
Not necessarily. How do we know they weren't designing the Intel and PPC versions at the same time?
They only needed to design a new motherboard.

From what I recall, the new iMac has a quite different interior, and more separate boards instead of a single large motherboard. Maybe all Apple has to do is design a new motherboard of the same size and layout as the current iMac G5's (and with similar system topologies - CPU, Northbridge->Memory, southbridge that isn't too bad). They probably designed the motherboards at the same time, or slightly offset, and are merely waiting for Yonahs.
 
nagromme said:
iMac? That would be weird... but maybe this transition demands some weird choices.

Very well said. It seems like an odd choice to update the top consumer machine first -- the last thing Apple wants is a top of the line Rev A consumer machine that gets horrid word of mouth.

But, this isn't a normal update. This is a makeover. I still expect the Mini first, but this wouldn't surprise me ...
 
With the recent number of rumors about Apple releasing Intel Macs early, I can't help but think Apple is putting out deliberate misinformation. Probably they found they were ahead of schedule and decided to move one line to Intel in January or Feburary as a trial run, but are trying to hide which line by telling different people different lines. That, or they've hired somebody to call Appleinsider's line and spam it with misinformation, mostly for Steve Jobs's amusement.

Anyway, an early Intel Mac Mini makes a lot more sense than an Intel Powerbook or iMac. The Intel Mac itself is a weird idea, and possibly not a completely bug-free idea yet, so people will be hesitant to buy them. At the same time, Apple is aware there's the potential to a PR disaster if the first Intel Macs have trouble that cause people grief. So, why would Apple first sell Intel iMacs and PowerBooks, which cost a $1200-$3000 each and often mission-critical? If even a minor bug cropped up, it would build up so much bad will that it could hurt Apple and the Intel switch for years.

Instead, if they sold Intel Mac Minis, they'd give people who are interested in the Intel switch a relatively inexpensive and consequence-free way to try it out. Most people who buy the Minis would be buying them as secondary computers, so if there were massive bugs it wouldn't hurt people as much as having their main computer not work. At worst, Apple could just recall the whole lot and send people an improved model a week later. Further, Apple would have real-world expirience with the Intel switch when they introduce their main computers, and be able to work out the bugs from them. Apple would also like to see if people can break their new and improved methods of keeping people from running Mac OS X86 on generic hardware. Finally, as people expiriment and find ways to boot Windows on the thing, a lot of Windows users may buy it to see what the whole Mac thing is about, figuring they've got a decent back-up PC if they don't like the Mac OS. So by selling a Intel Mac Mini first, Apple gets a larger beta-test of the whole Intel thing, early adopters get a cheap way to try Intel (and you know they'll buy the Intel iMac six months later, too), and developers have an earlier and larger base to sell Intel apps to. I expect Intel Mac Minis early next year, possibly with a high-end model that includes a remote, FrontRow, and TV-out (hey, it runs 90% of the applicaitons I have in slow-as-hell emulation*, but it makes a fantastic media center!).

Then again, Apple did replace their top-selling iPod Mini at its peak with a newer model, they may be gutsy enough to stick unproven technology into their top selling Mac three months after they've updated it.

*Yeah, I have higher hopes for Rosetta, but it's not going to be anywhere close to the marketing hype.
 
ksz said:
Oh no, where to begin??


Yes ROSETTA Is the Answer!

Accelerate Your Mac said:
"What Can Be Translated?
Rosetta is designed to translate currently shipping applications that run on a PowerPC with a G3 processor (emphasis mine) and that are built for Mac OS X. Rosetta does not run the following:
- Applications built for Mac OS 8 or 9
- Code written specifically for AltiVec
- Code that inserts preferences in the System Preferences pane
- Applications that require a G4 or G5 processor
- Applications that depend on one or more kernel extensions
- Kernel extensions
- Bundled Java applications or Java applications with JNI libraries that can't be translated"

Unless this has, or will change by the time the Intel Macintosh systems come out, you are going to have trouble loading, or running applications that are AltiVec dependent.

Granted most are programmed to turn that functionality OFF when using a G3 processor equipped system , they do see decreases in speed. Remember using Rosetta is essentially turning off all things Altivec, thus emulates a G3 not a G4 or G5 with the advantages inhearant.

For Most of us, that defeats the purpose of buying a new machine. This is because many of the speed enhancement features of the software we pay a premium for, are disabled because the system will not support it.

For many of us, Intel is not a viable option until software developers port their software to use Intel's SSE architecture.
 
Bravo 840quadra :D

Anyway...

What I thought the MacMini was rumored to be the first to get updated?
Now its the iMac??

Why!? that means the new version would have the shortest lifespan ever. It's just got DDR2 and PCI-express... and a speed-bump to last all of 3 months? :confused:

These rumors are getting daft.

Sources familiar with Apple's Intel plans now believe the Mac maker is striving to complete its transition to Intel chips in the by the fall of 2006, several months ahead of schedule.

Hmmmmm.... why exactley?
 
RobHague said:
Bravo 840quadra :D

Anyway...

What I thought the MacMini was getting updated? Now its the iMac?? Why that means the new version would have the shortest lifespan ever. It's just got DDR2 and PCI-express... all that for all of 3 months? :confused:

These rumors are getting daft.

Various rumors are highlighting virtually every model. Perhaps they will all change in January
:p
 
powerbook911 said:
That is yours and mine logic that says the value of yours will drop after Intel, but it won't. If you get the Intel one, within a few weeks of release, you'd still be able to get a good amount on ebay. Macs really hold value, even though chip generations, etc.

Overall, I don't find this rumor unbelievable at all. I find it is *very* accurate. Anyone who thought Apple wasn't going to have Intel macs until the very month they said they would be shipping by are not looking at this correctly. Apple wants to surprise and beat competitors.

The Powerbook update this fall was simply to make it more attractive, for those who need a machine now. It added some features and cut the price. Nice.

Appleinsider has been quite accurate lately, and this rumor just makes sense, in my opinion.


Precisely. Apple said that the Intel's would be "SHIPPING" by June. Shipping does not always (and most of the time) imply release. These models could already be released and shipping by that time period. In fact, I can promise you know that the new PB updates (the last Rev, not the Intels) will be shipping by Dec! :D
 
840quadra said:
Unless this has, or will change by the time the Intel Macintosh systems come out, you are going to have trouble loading, or running applications that are AltiVec dependent.

Granted most are programmed to turn that functionality OFF when using a G3 processor equipped system , they do see decreases in speed. Remember using Rosetta is essentially turning off all things Altivec, thus emulates a G3 not a G4 or G5 with the advantages inhearant.

For Most of us, that defeats the purpose of buying a new machine. This is because many of the speed enhancement features of the software we pay a premium for, are disabled because the system will not support it.

For many of us, Intel is not a viable option until software developers port their software to use Intel's SSE architecture.
I would not expect to use Rosetta for more than a year. Accelerating the swtich to Intel should motivate developers to accelerate their switch as well. Meanwhile, Apple may continue to sell certain PPC-based systems through the end of 2006.

The point is not that Rosetta is a viable alternative. It is not. The point is to accelerate the entire shift to Intel, and that means more companies than just Apple.
 
Hattig said:
They only needed to design a new motherboard.

From what I recall, the new iMac has a quite different interior, and more separate boards instead of a single large motherboard. Maybe all Apple has to do is design a new motherboard of the same size and layout as the current iMac G5's (and with similar system topologies - CPU, Northbridge->Memory, southbridge that isn't too bad). They probably designed the motherboards at the same time, or slightly offset, and are merely waiting for Yonahs.
Seems reasonable and plausible.
 
Rumorsite Rumorsite

Appleinsider is becoming so sketchy that we should have a rumorsite that speculates on the rumors that appleinsider may or may not release. Then, Appleinsider could sue that site for leaking rumors about its rumors. We could even complain when Appleinsider doesn't give us the rumors we want.
Macrumors should start speculating on Applensider rumors before they are released, get in the ground floor.

Where's our Dual Dual Intel rumors, Appleinsider? PC users have Dual Dual Intel rumors. Why don't we?
 
Hattig said:
Apple is having to make this change, they have no alternative. They'll probably reassess what the options are every couple of years of course, so that they can release on whatever is the best processor at the time, be it x86, x86-64 or PowerPC, should it ever make a massive comeback.
Sounds like a good way to keep a tight reign on Intel. A potential second supplier is always a good ace card to play at the negotiating table.
 
Too many rumors from too many "sources". I hope January does not see a huge letdown.
 
I'm looking forward to this.

In my experience, Intel processors are pretty good when they aren't wasted on Windows.
 
Even if the PB were introduced in 2/06 and the specs were amazing, I'd rather wait it out and get one until the software can actually make use of said specs.

I'll take the 1.67 G4 over Rosetta any day.
 
ksz said:
Sounds like a good way to keep a tight reign on Intel. A potential second supplier is always a good ace card to play at the negotiating table.

That's what id like to see them doing. They said they told their programmers to keep the OS processor 'independant' so i was hoping that Apple would actually offer PPC and x86 products along side each other...

There are some interesting PPC products ive heard, who was it that was making Quad Cores? Anyhow yeah it would be nice if Apple kept its options open to bring the best product at the time PPC or x86.
 
ksz said:
I would not expect to use Rosetta for more than a year. Accelerating the swtich to Intel should motivate developers to accelerate their switch as well. Meanwhile, Apple may continue to sell certain PPC-based systems through the end of 2006.

The point is not that Rosetta is a viable alternative. It is not. The point is to accelerate the entire shift to Intel, and that means more companies than just Apple.

I understand what you are saying. It just sounded like (in your previous long post) that you were calling Rosetta the answer to peoples problems with jumping on intel systems right away.

I would assume (and hope) that Apple has learned allot about this type of transition during the 68k -> PPC and Classic -> OS X changeovers.
 
Natron said:
The iMac is their main computer offering. I would also say the PowerBook is their main portable. The two most popular/best selling products they have, I assume. It makes sense.


I don't think this makes any sense, seeing that the iMac was just upgraded.

If I had just bought an iMac and 3 months later they change out the processor..I would be pissed/dissappointed in the least.

Then again, like someone else said, maybe this new iMac is the "Intel form factor", and all they have to do is switch out the motherboard. Maybe it will be a way to say, "Hey, its still a Mac...it doesn't matter what chip is in it."
 
mac-er said:
I don't think this makes any sense, seeing that the iMac was just upgraded.

If I had just bought an iMac and 3 months later they change out the processor..I would be pissed/dissappointed in the least.

Then again, like someone else said, maybe this new iMac is the "Intel form factor", and all they have to do is switch out the motherboard. Maybe it will be a way to say, "Hey, its still a Mac...it doesn't matter what chip is in it."

I agree. With the new "slightly smaller" form factor for the iMac (plus the upgraded spec) I just can't see yet another changer so quickly.
 
mac-er said:
I don't think this makes any sense, seeing that the iMac was just upgraded.

If I had just bought an iMac and 3 months later they change out the processor..I would be pissed/dissappointed in the least.

Then again, like someone else said, maybe this new iMac is the "Intel form factor", and all they have to do is switch out the motherboard. Maybe it will be a way to say, "Hey, its still a Mac...it doesn't matter what chip is in it."
It makes sense to me that Apple would switch to Intel with its top selling models first. Apple is committed to Intel; switching the iMac and PowerBooks first makes sense for at least these reasons:

1. Both require high performance, low power chips. Both can use either single or dual core versions of Yonah.

2. If Apple switches the Mac mini first, it makes a weak statement, particularly because Apple will need to use a lower performance processor in that model.

3. Switching the best-selling models makes a more powerful statement and catches the interest of a wider audience. It also motivates the developer community to accelerate their switch.

4. It is more risky to switch the best-selling models, but Apple has already committed to Intel. There is no turning back at this time. The iPod mini to iPod nano is a good example of Apple's ability to Think Different.
 
Bear said:
I can see 2 good reasos for Apple to use the same case as the iMac G5 (iSight):

1) Designing new cases and preparing the production lines cost money.

2) Imagine a row of iMacs at MacWorld. Some are Intel based and some are PowerPC based. Walk up to an iMac and play with it - does it really matter which processor it has in it?

Or... Apple does what they did with the Mac mini recently...
"You might get an iMac that's PowerPC or you might get one that's Intel!"
(even though the label says that it's Intel)..

haha
 
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