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Intel Transition, MacBook Name, and Windows on Mac?
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ahmurphy7 said:
Perhaps, but what is marketable is that it has Intel under the hood. Plus, it's only a name.
Hattig said:
Hehe. You do realize that this specification is using Intel EFI. If you think Windows won't be compatible in short order you would be wrong. Someone will get XP to a compatible state one way or another. even if someone has to load a helper app to "talk" to EFI. It will happen.
I don't think MacBook Pro is a transitional name, I think it is here to stay. But I do think the casing will change once Leopard is released in January 2007.
I predict by 2007 the names of Apple's hardware lineup will be:
NoteBooks
MacBook Pro
MacBook Mini
Consumer Desktops
iMac
Mac Mini
Professional Desktops
ProMac
I predict by 2007 the names of Apple's hardware lineup will be:
NoteBooks
MacBook Pro
MacBook Mini
Consumer Desktops
iMac
Mac Mini
Professional Desktops
ProMac
i think that the problem with the name is simply the inease (is that a word?) of saying it. MacBook Pro compared with PowerBook. I understand that Power- doesnt mean PPC but if they HAD to change it (which might've been a feasable idea to reflect the change in...everything) a name that simply replaced the Power prefix with something else wuld've been more prudent.
MacBook Pro/PowerBook Core Duo....theyre all a bit long and fiddly.
...Which is why i'm going to be calling it the ProBook. Either that, or some powerful lobbying/kidnapping Jonathan Ive campaign to change it.
To be fair, they'll all end up having redesigns anyway. And i doubt there will be ANOTHER name change, that'd be a little stupid IMHO. If you're gonna do it, get it right the first time.
BTW, does anyone esle thing the frontpage of the Apple Store (in the UK at least) is a mess? PowerMac is in Displays section, there's PPC and Intel all over the shop...hell, i knew all about it, but it still made me baulk...everything's EVERYWHERE...
MacBook Pro/PowerBook Core Duo....theyre all a bit long and fiddly.
...Which is why i'm going to be calling it the ProBook. Either that, or some powerful lobbying/kidnapping Jonathan Ive campaign to change it.
To be fair, they'll all end up having redesigns anyway. And i doubt there will be ANOTHER name change, that'd be a little stupid IMHO. If you're gonna do it, get it right the first time.
BTW, does anyone esle thing the frontpage of the Apple Store (in the UK at least) is a mess? PowerMac is in Displays section, there's PPC and Intel all over the shop...hell, i knew all about it, but it still made me baulk...everything's EVERYWHERE...
robotx21 said:
Sounds like a bad who's on first, what's on second, i don't know's on third skit.
SiliconAddict said:
Do you even understand the difference between BIOS and EFI?
The Windows XP boot loader makes plenty of calls into the BIOS to read the disk initially before drivers are loaded to load individual drivers; as well as for power management and PnP configuration. Thats why its nice to see the BIOS going away, it was the worst adhoc design ever. Every few years, a new set of BIOS APIs were added...some needing to run in 32-bit protected mode, others in "real-mode" (aka 8086 emulation mode).
All publically available builds of XP REQUIRE the BIOS. Simply replacing the bootloader won't let Windows XP run.
On the other hand, Windows Vista is DESIGNED to run on BOTH EFI and BIOS.
So sure, you might be able to hack XP to attempt to start; but I doubt without serious driver changes and possibly kernel changes that you'd get very far.
More likely, VMWare would step in and build a MacOS X version which would let you run just fine; as VMWare emulates the BIOS for host systems.
It's great news to hear that the Intel transition is proceeding ahead of schedule. From the sounds of it, we may see Intel PowerMacs before 2007 now, which would be great. It will be interesting to hear an update from Intel on when Conroe and Woodcrest will be available, and if they are indeed ahead of schedule.
Mac Naming
The first PowerPC Macs in fact weren't called Power Mac at all.
The first three were named
Power Macintosh 6100/60
Power Macintosh 7100/66
Power Macintosh 8100/80
but I forget how the 9100 fitted in to that and I sold the things at the time of the PowerPC transition!
Somewhere along the line, Apple gave in to common usage and started labelling their desktops Power Mac.
Maybe Steve will take us back to the beginning and go for Macintosh Pro...
As for Windows XP I'm sure someone will write a boot loader for it - but don't expect to run Windows on a MacBook as soon as you get it in your hands.
WINE or an open source project like BOCHS are more likely to let you run Windows apps in the short term.
The first PowerPC Macs in fact weren't called Power Mac at all.
The first three were named
Power Macintosh 6100/60
Power Macintosh 7100/66
Power Macintosh 8100/80
but I forget how the 9100 fitted in to that and I sold the things at the time of the PowerPC transition!
Somewhere along the line, Apple gave in to common usage and started labelling their desktops Power Mac.
Maybe Steve will take us back to the beginning and go for Macintosh Pro...
As for Windows XP I'm sure someone will write a boot loader for it - but don't expect to run Windows on a MacBook as soon as you get it in your hands.
WINE or an open source project like BOCHS are more likely to let you run Windows apps in the short term.
I think I found out what happens when you try loading OS X on a PC and Windows on a Mac. . .Its not pretty.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1999499897470398424
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1999499897470398424
Evangelion said:Duh! Since PowerBook was change to MacBook, logic dictates that PowerMac will be replaced by MacMac
I'll have one without the pickles
As for the new iMac I have one coming to replace my mom's aging Strawberry iMac. Next in line is my old PowerMac. I want a "BigMac" with OS X Server.
I'm not looking to dual boot, but I do want server virtualization. If VMWare makes a version of their product for Mac OS X you will be able to run windows inside a "window" on your Mac OS X desktop.
Write it down
Powermac will become a ProMac.
Hopefully we'll see dual optical drives make a return and room for more than 2 HDs..
Powermac will become a ProMac.
Hopefully we'll see dual optical drives make a return and room for more than 2 HDs..
VMWare
This is exactly what I want!
I don't think we'll see Microsoft updating VirtualPC for a while:
1) from their comments today
2) due to the amount of time they took to get VirtualPC running on G5s
3) because Windows Vista will support EFI and probably boot on a MacBook (there are few non-standard parts in it!)
so I hope VMWare comes to the rescue.
Perhaps Apple will make something to take advantage of the Virtualisation tech in the Core Duo - they do have that patent...
sfwalter said:
This is exactly what I want!
I don't think we'll see Microsoft updating VirtualPC for a while:
1) from their comments today
2) due to the amount of time they took to get VirtualPC running on G5s
3) because Windows Vista will support EFI and probably boot on a MacBook (there are few non-standard parts in it!)
so I hope VMWare comes to the rescue.
Perhaps Apple will make something to take advantage of the Virtualisation tech in the Core Duo - they do have that patent...
so, I'd say it'll be about 1-2 months for XP to be publicly hacked and run on a new intel mac, and when vista is released, maybe 3-4 weeks. And you know where the only macs running windows are right now? In Apple's secret basement, that used to only house the x86 versions of OS X...Phil Schilller is reading this whole thread and laughing right now...
Anyone like me
Is anyone a bit dissappont3ed with the announcements? While these 'new' computers seem interesting- it sure wasn't an explosion that opened Macworld this year. I was expecting my socks to be knocked off. Didn't happen.
They same like good machienes- but the are definately not awesome mac products. In reality it is more of the same. I wonder if it means that Apple might be having more problems than we know??
Mac mini???? I can't see why they didn't get one on the shelves?
Is anyone a bit dissappont3ed with the announcements? While these 'new' computers seem interesting- it sure wasn't an explosion that opened Macworld this year. I was expecting my socks to be knocked off. Didn't happen.
They same like good machienes- but the are definately not awesome mac products. In reality it is more of the same. I wonder if it means that Apple might be having more problems than we know??
Mac mini???? I can't see why they didn't get one on the shelves?
All this talk about booting a Mac into windows is blasphemy! Why would you want to do that?!?! If anything, I'd want windows apps to launch and run directly in OSX.. now that would be awesome.. Heck, I'd even settle for a VPC-ish window running Windows.. natively. That way, when you have an argument with a PC zealot claiming there's not enough software on the Mac, you can smack him around and say "****, I can run anything you can.. and more!"
As far as the naming goes, I could care less what it's called. Joe schmoe, if he's even a bit computer literate, only knows the term 'Mac' whether it's a powermac, imac, macbook, powerbook, ibook... first thing he'll ask you is "Is that a Mac?"
Now all I am waiting for is a replacement for my Power Mac G5 1.6ghz. Hopefully, sooner than later.
That way, when you have an argument with a PC zealot claiming there's not enough software on the Mac, you can smack him around and say "****, I can run anything you can.. and more!"As far as the naming goes, I could care less what it's called. Joe schmoe, if he's even a bit computer literate, only knows the term 'Mac' whether it's a powermac, imac, macbook, powerbook, ibook... first thing he'll ask you is "Is that a Mac?"
Now all I am waiting for is a replacement for my Power Mac G5 1.6ghz. Hopefully, sooner than later.
There's a lot of legacy hardware that Windows expects to be there, which I can't see the new Intel Macs having in the same format. Things like system timers and real-time clocks. The device drivers for these are embedded into XP and can't be updated.
chibianh said:
So I can throw my PC in the bin and only have Macs?
That's my plan - keep my iBook G4 and get an intel Mac mini for dual booting/virtualisation.
jayscheuerle
macrumors 68020
OSX will not run on PCs
Out of the box. Sure, somebody will crack it, but this crack won't be widespread enough to cause Apple any financial damage. Chances are that Apple will make every new software update incompatible with known cracks, forcing yet ANOTHER crack to be applied. After cracking 10.4.4, 10.4.5, 10.4.6 and 10.4.7, Crackers might just realize that their time is worth enough money to buy a Mac.
Mac is now in the name "MacBook" for marketing reasons. Not everybody new iBooks and PowerBooks were Macs. Now they will. It's the rationale that led Acura to drop the names from their cars and replace them with letter-number combinations; it forces you to say the name of the company. If you say you owned a "Legend", many people would not have known who made the car. Now you say you own an "Acura TSX" and all is known. Instead of driving a 650i, you drive a "BMW 650i". It seems that Apple is going to start caring about their computers again and marketing them to the legions that don't use them or don't understand them. The name doesn't have a very "mac-like" ring, but it's a smart move.
Out of the box. Sure, somebody will crack it, but this crack won't be widespread enough to cause Apple any financial damage. Chances are that Apple will make every new software update incompatible with known cracks, forcing yet ANOTHER crack to be applied. After cracking 10.4.4, 10.4.5, 10.4.6 and 10.4.7, Crackers might just realize that their time is worth enough money to buy a Mac.
Mac is now in the name "MacBook" for marketing reasons. Not everybody new iBooks and PowerBooks were Macs. Now they will. It's the rationale that led Acura to drop the names from their cars and replace them with letter-number combinations; it forces you to say the name of the company. If you say you owned a "Legend", many people would not have known who made the car. Now you say you own an "Acura TSX" and all is known. Instead of driving a 650i, you drive a "BMW 650i". It seems that Apple is going to start caring about their computers again and marketing them to the legions that don't use them or don't understand them. The name doesn't have a very "mac-like" ring, but it's a smart move.