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Intel Ultrabooks Unable to Undercut MacBook Air Prices

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Apple innovates. How? We are in the post PC era. It might seem pure rethoric, but it is true if you look at the MBA.
it is a "post PC" Mac. Lion was the OS step in that direction, the MBA is the hardware counterpart of it. What do I mean? The computer world at large (including almost all electronics), has shifted from a specs comparison to a user experience one. Do I, and 99% of people, care about the GHZ of a CPU? nope. Does my computer or device (smartphone, tv, you name it) handle what a throw at it beautifully and easily? Yes. THAT is all I care for.
Apple suffered when they had PowerPC because they where hard for the press to lay out and compare on pure specs. But now, through patient and visionary (sometimes arrogant) work, they managed to put the weight on design and user experience. And vertical integration makes them a key player right there.
Give me an ultra thin PC that installs a 28 Swiss franc OS in 15' and performs great. Give me the chance to have a limited SSD but keep all my music, pictures and movies online. Deliver an electronic device that I can use all day without a plug. I am sold. Does it have a dual core or a quad core "thingy" in it? I couldn't care less. Does it start in half the time my work colleague's one? I care.

Apple made, knowingly or not, per luck or per plan, irrelevant which processor, RAM, GPU, motherboard you have.
Intel is pissed? Of course. It is great business for them, but if apple replaces their CPUs tomorrow with the A8 or whatever, customers will not know the difference and, rightly so, would care less as long as the experience is improved.

Look at it that way: architect office. Long history of having to buy the MacPro line to handle everything. An iMac today (consumer grade computer) does the same task on current software wonderfully. We are beyond specs. And apple seems to be the first that noticed it. Others will follow? Hope so, for the sake of innovation. Others are there yet. Nope
 
butterfly0fdoom said:
...Apple is NOT innovative at all. Microsoft is innovative...

Tablets is one such instance. Microsoft tried to launch tablet PCs back in the XP era, but they failed because the OS wasn't meant for touch input, the battery life was abysmal, and the devices' sizes were unwieldy. Apple then comes around with their iPad, which, instead of using a downscaled mouse-and-keyboard OS, used an up-scaled version of an more power-efficient OS that was designed for touch input. Microsoft had a good idea; Apple made it workable.
Click to expand...
To put it another way; MS took an already common idea in popular scifi and utterly failed to execute it. Apple took the same idea, ignored the prior work by MS and made a success that left the analysts stunned.

Neither company gets credit for the concept. In today's world the execution IS the innovation.
 
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KnightWRX said:
Let's hope not, I tend to like my food as a physical media, I don't think we're quite technologically ready for digital download only food. ;)
Click to expand...

You and up to 4 friends can consume this meal... assuming you are on the same account.
 
stadlin said:
As I can see, you own a MBP 13"... Have you ever worked with a MBP 15"? That's my working machine and during a long repair, Apple lend me a 13" to do my daily work. And it felt like a huge step back, everything was so much slower and laggy.

In your eyes, the air feels quite fast but other users who uses photoshop, cad programs, indesign etc and are used to the 15", the air isn't sufficient enough
Click to expand...

I've used an MBA for a while. I've run CAD and Adobe programs on my MBP 13" (which is my working machine) without any speed issues. I don't know what you're doing that causes an Air to be insufficient, but the only time my computer is ever laggy is when I'm bouncing song files in Logic while exporting images in Lightroom, a situation that even the MBA's i5 would have significantly less of an issue with than my glorious Core 2 Duo.
 
dwsolberg said:
I wish that Apple had kept the entry-level white MacBook, too. It was the best value proposition Apple had, particularly for college students and others who may want both an Apple product at a lower price and the flexibility of having a CD drive and other connections. The 11" MBA just can't fill that hole in the lineup.

However, that's not the same as being overpriced. Overpriced means that the intrinsic value is notably less than the value being charged. Obviously, the intrinsic value cannot be notably less than the value being charged if other competitors cannot make a similar product for less.

What's happening is that Apple dropping the lower priced notebook computer from its lineup, and you're upset that you can no longer get an Apple laptop at the price point and feature set that you want. I agree.
Click to expand...

Daveoc64 made two mistakes in his original post: 1) Based on his later posts, when he called the MBA "overpriced" (which contradicts his later statement that it's a "good value"), I think he meant that to get the feature set of the white MB (13" screen, optical drive, dedicated graphics card, more storage), you have to move up to a 13" MBP, which costs more. It's an incorrect use of "overpriced," but I got his point. 2) Saying that the MBA is slow was just plain inaccurate.

An updated white MB, in the old enclosure, with an HDD and a Superdrive, but with the new Sandy Bridge processor and graphics, priced at $799, would have been a great machine. I know what it's like to be on a budget, where an extra $100 or $200 is a big deal. I don't understand why so many people are upset with Daveoc64 for wishing that Apple still offered a product that they decided to drop, as if it's heresy to question the Wisdom of Steve. It took me a long time to accept that Apple was never going to offer a mid-priced tower to replace my aging G4 Sawtooth, which gave me 8 years of service, thanks to my ability to upgrade most of the components and thus spread out the cost over time. If they offered a Mac SemiPro tower, priced at about $1,500, I'd probably buy it, along with a 27" Thunderbolt display.

That said, I understand why Apple discontinued the white MB: they're moving away from optical drives, HDDs, and heavy (relatively speaking) laptop enclosures. They might be afraid that a $799 MB would cut into MBA or high-end iPad 2 sales. In any case, once a new type of technology becomes entrenched across a product line, they usually phase out their "retro" products. I'd be very surprised, for instance, if the iPod Classic gets another update. As soon as 128 SSDs make it into the iPod Touch, the Classic is probably history -- even if a lot of people would prefer to buy a HDD-based iPod that costs less. From a marketing standpoint, Apple generally knows what they're doing these days.

As for me, once my 2008 MBP becomes unusably slow (it still meets my needs), by which time 256 GB SSDs should cost what 128 GB SSDs do now, then I'll probably buy a MBA. If I needed a new computer today, I'd get one, because I think it's a great value.
 
altecXP said:
Apple spends some of the LOWEST numbers on R&D, they essentially have Intel and Foxconn to most of the R&D work.
Click to expand...

links, or it didnt happen.

apple's gear is designed in-house; they use contract manufacturers for inventory.
 
KnightWRX said:
Let's hope not, I tend to like my food as a physical media, I don't think we're quite technologically ready for digital download only food. ;)
Click to expand...

err404 said:
You and up to 4 friends can consume this meal... assuming you are on the same account.
Click to expand...
Don't get KnightWRX started on this one. We all know that Knight and his girlfriend/fiancee have separate accounts so they'll have to pay twice, especially since Apple got rid of the Family Packs with the introduction of the Apple Food Store.

BTW, I think we're all ready for digitally downloaded food. That's essentially what the replicators on Star Trek do. Who wouldn't like to download a cup of Earl Grey Tea ... hot.
;)
 
Cool Asus make much better products than Apple. I would be all over one of these. The Asus Transformer puts the ipad to shame.
 
Apple is truly a very special company led by a very special person.

Whatever they do the industry follows, can you imagine just how incredible that is? When everybody is sitting watching what you will do and follow your footsteps, TRY to follow your footsteps, none of the other companies do anything risky ever, and when they do, they usually fail, Apple always goes to new territories and succeeds.

Now watch, Apple takes off optical drivers from their laptops, soon the rest of the industry will do the same, they cannot do that right now without Apple doing it first and saying "it's OK".

Amazing company.
 
PlipPlop said:
Cool Asus make much better products than Apple. I would be all over one of these. The Asus Transformer puts the ipad to shame.
Click to expand...

Why dont you make a point, rather than generalized statements like "put to shame". WHY is it better than the iPhone 4. Are you 12?
 
Wickedgardengtp said:
Why dont you make a point, rather than generalized statements like "put to shame". WHY is it better than the iPhone 4. Are you 12?
Click to expand...

Nicer interface
Runs faster
Better build quality than ipad
Better quality screen
The optional keyboard is brilliant
USB ports and SD Card Slots
HDMI output
Better OS
 
Vitruviux said:
Apple is truly a very special company led by a very special person.

Whatever they do the industry follows, can you imagine just how incredible that is? When everybody is sitting watching what you will do and follow your footsteps, TRY to follow your footsteps, none of the other companies do anything risky ever, and when they do, they usually fail, Apple always goes to new territories and succeeds.

Now watch, Apple takes off optical drivers from their laptops, soon the rest of the industry will do the same, they cannot do that right now without Apple doing it first and saying "it's OK".

Amazing company.
Click to expand...

I think Asus were one of the first to remove optical drivers with their laptops. Omg Apple Copied them!!!!!!!!
 
err404 said:
Pick an argument. You're complaining that the MBA is under spec, yet you suggest that Apple should make a machine with a slower i3 CPU?
As for RAM and SSD size, they do offer machines with more...
Click to expand...

Underspecified in the fact it comes with 2gb. An updated (cheaper) Macbook, maybe with an i3 probably would've come with 2gb also - but at least you could probably do something about it. Of course they do offer Macs with more - but then the price goes up - moving further away from the initial entry level price.

KnightWRX said:
Underspecified...
Click to expand...

I mentioned the pathetic 2gb supplied with it, once bought you can do nothing about. The General (memory) Requirements for Lion are 2gb really Apple should've included 4gb in the basic system.

KinghtWRX said:
Again, size and weights are specifications. They count in the overall specifications. It's neither underspecified or overpriced for what it is.
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The weight and size specs are great, it's a great package for the price (well apart from 2gb)

KnightWRX said:
The fact that what it is is not what you need does not change that.
Click to expand...

It doesn't, and point i'm trying to make is it's a shame they pulled the plug on the MacBook - the MBA (11") isn't a direct replacement (which because of the price point people make the connection that it is).

I have no problem with the MBA, chances are I'll upgrade my Macbook to a 13" MBA when the old thing finally starts to slow down.
 
Kebabselector said:
Underspecified in the fact it comes with 2gb. An updated (cheaper) Macbook, maybe with an i3 probably would've come with 2gb also - but at least you could probably do something about it. They do offer Macs with more - but then the price goes up.

I mentioned the pathetic 2gb supplied with it, once bought you can do nothing about. The General (memory) Requirements for Lion are 2gb really Apple should've included 4gb in the basic system.
Click to expand...

Please then, show us the alternatives that have comparable specs (right down to size and weight, otherwise they are not comparables). Wake us when you do. ;)



Kebabselector said:
The weight and size specs are great, it's a great package for the price (well apart from 2gb)
Click to expand...

Hence it's not underspecified or overpriced, it's just not what you want.

Kebabselector said:
It doesn't, and point i'm trying to make is it's a shame they pulled the plug on the MacBook - the MBA (11") isn't a direct replacement (which because of the price point people make the connection that it is).

I have no problem with the MBA, chances are I'll upgrade my Macbook to a 13" MBA when the old thing finally starts to slow down.
Click to expand...

So it's neither underspecified or overpriced. If that wasn't your point, why did you claim this was the case then ?

You could have just said "It's not what I want" which brings up the other question: If these are not the laptops you're looking for, what are you doing in a thread about them ?
 
PlipPlop said:
Nicer interface
Runs faster
Better build quality than ipad
Better quality screen
The optional keyboard is brilliant
USB ports and SD Card Slots
HDMI output
Better OS
Click to expand...
How much faster? Whats the speed?
How is the build quality better?
How is the screen better? Whats the resolution?
Cause I want to plug usb devices and SD cards into a phone.....
HDMI output adapters are available for the iPhone 4
Seems like more bias Android fanboy comments.
 
Wickedgardengtp said:
How much faster? Whats the speed?
How is the build quality better?
How is the screen better? Whats the resolution?
Cause I want to plug usb devices and SD cards into a phone.....
HDMI output adapters are available for the iPhone 4
Seems like more bias Android fanboy comments.
Click to expand...

Asus is well know for having better hardware quality than Apple
1280x800 vs the ipads 1024x768
I can plug in my cameras memory card if I want to show friends pictures on a larger screen.

Seems like more bias Apple fanboy comments.
 
hayesk said:
I can't feel sorry for these companies. Their business model has always been to forgo R&D costs so they could build knock-offs at cut-rate prices. Well, now it's come back to bite them. They should have known that R&D is more than UI and case design. Manufacturing would come into play too. Can they really say they didn't see this coming? If so, maybe this business isn't for them.
Click to expand...

I just wanted to quote this because it should be read again.
Agreed. 100%.
 
Look at the number of products

Microsoft has three different core operating systems: NT, mobile and XBox (although they share some higher level libraries). Apple has one core operating system, UNIX-based, capable of integrating free open source UNIX development. A operating system is a MASSIVE R&D undertaking.

Of NT alone, Microsoft has multiple major variants, tailored to desktops, servers and tablets. Apple has the OS X and iOS variants built onto its Darwin core, and they share many libraries (OS X Server is just a software package, much of it open source).

Microsoft has Office, and Apple has iWork. But Office is much bigger, about a dozen extra programs.

Both have their OS-related play software for photos, etc., and the standard mail and web browsing functionality. However, Apple gets to take advantage of the open source WebKit for its browser.

Microsoft has all the huge server apps: Exchange, SQL Server, SharePoint, Dynamics CRM, BizTalk, Communicator, Small Business Server, etc. The equivalent of any one of these products could be the main product of another software company (and is). Apple has pretty much no equivalents, just some open source apps, and some in-house management stuff.

Microsoft has a large number of online services: Bing, Live, Office 360, Hotmail, etc.. Apple has iTunes, and piddled with MobileMe until only recently going all-in for iCloud.

Microsoft has a game studio. Apple doesn't.

Microsoft has a huge number of other various software titles. Apple has Aperture, Logic, Final Cut and Shake, maybe a couple others.

The only thing Apple makes more of is hardware. Microsoft has the 360, Zune, MSN TV, and a large number of accessories. Apple has the Macs, the related iOS devices, the lower iPods, monitors and a small number of accessories. Notice, a lot of the R&D can easily be shared: they blow maybe $50 million on their next-gen mobile CPU, it goes into all iOS devices.

Microsoft also has a pure research division, which doesn't necessarily spend money to produce any one end product.

Microsoft DOES MORE, so R&D COSTS MORE.

Apple's research is more focused on a lower number of products to be delivered.
 
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