The Mac mini (2018) has a 65 W TDP mobile chip? What?! This is new to me.
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Intel Unveils 10th-Gen Processors Suitable for Next 16-Inch MacBook Pro With Wi-Fi 6 and Turbo Boost Speeds Above 5GHz
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The Mac mini (2018) has a 65 W TDP mobile chip? What?! This is new to me.
Yes because their 10nm was too ambitious
There is a big probability that their 10nm will last only for a very short period
Apple doesn’t seem to be in any hurry to offer WiFi 6 in Macs. Maybe later this year, or next year.
Too ambitious? It has nearly identical design rules to TSMC’s 7nm process, and TSMC seems to have gotten it working fine.
Intel probably had to whiff on it as the thermals wopulent allow them to TurboBoost it higher than say, 4.5GHz or possibly lower, so they ditched it to keep the marketing message focused on the high Turbo Boost frequencies, which are meant to get us to ignore the same as last year clock speeds on the i7-10875H and the i9-10980HK.
As stated above, I think Intel has eked out all the performance they can expect to see out of 14nm and its refinemento, refreshes and the like.
There is also zero chance of them hitting 2.4GHz base clock/5.3GHz Turbo on 10nm at this point...at least not in volume. I’m guessing they would lucky to hit 2.0GHz/4.0GHz with an 8-core part without seeing short supplies on the parts. I am also pretty sure that an 10nm 45w TDP H-Series parts would omit the Iris Plus EU and tack on plain old UHD Graphics, which would just kill one of the main advantages of the 10nm CPUs so far.
This release simply allows Intel to punt the lack of a suitable 10nm part down the road another year while they try to figure out what the hell they are doing moving forward.
I really see no reason for Apple to even waste time putting these things into an updated 16” MacBook Pro, except to shut people up who start whining about Apple using “Year-old CPUs” in their flagship notebook. I am waiting for the chorus to begin around June or July.
The only brick walls they’re hitting are with the laws of innovation.
The original 10nm scheduled by Intel was really really ambitious
compare to their original 14nm it was a 2.7x increase in density (this is huge), also the technology who where supposed to be used were quite advance with Cobalt interconnections for example
TSMC original 7nm node is less dense than 10nm intel original plan, I don’t know for the last iteration of TSMC process neither Intel’s 10nm real batch, but the original 10nm was really something
Why even mention WiFi Gen.6 / 802.11ax in the article? It has nothing to do with the CPU. You can purchase a full package with CPU+Chipset+WiFi from Intel, but this has been possible for years now. This is the first time you are able to do so and get WiFi Gen.6 / 802.11ax but as Apple has NEVER used any of Intel's complete packages and gone with Intel WLAN why would we expect them to suddenly start now?
The Mac's will come with WiFi Gen.6 / 802.11ax the moment Apple decides to start using the Broadcom WLAN chipsets with WiFi Gen.6 / 802.11ax support. They have existed for about 1 year now.
The Mac's will come with WiFi Gen.6 / 802.11ax the moment Apple decides to start using the Broadcom WLAN chipsets with WiFi Gen.6 / 802.11ax support. They have existed for about 1 year now.
Great point. I had forgotten that even though the latest chipset is still soldered, it is a desktop-class CPU.
I've had the MBP 16" in my Apple Cart for a few days now and was just about to order
But, if the 10th Gen chips are not coming until October then I am not sure I will wait
I need to Google it, but I remember reading something about Intel using cobalt in their 10nm lithography, which was causing them all kinds of headaches with yields. I probably shouldn’t even mention it without backup. They must have gotten yields up, at the cost of clock speeds and actual volume since I see no end to PC OEMs using 8th or 9th Gen (14nm) parts in their laptops and keeping 10nm for relatively higher end models. I would assume yields are somewhat decent for Apple to put it in their best-selling laptop, but I am not an electrical engineer, so I’m simply spit-balling at this point.
It is just very recently possible for an AMD based motherboards to have a Thunderbolt 3 ports on them (https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-motherboard-asrock-first-thunderbolt-certification-intel). Both in terms of laptops and desktops I've seen people ask all the time in these forums why Apple isn't just jumping to AMD since they now have superior CPU's in many ways. There is a lot that goes into changing between the two brands in terms of motherboard design and features (Intel's PCH, socket layout, better traces needed for PCIe 4, etc). In my mind though Apple could get around many of those challenges with enough effort, but until Intel let Thunderbolt be used on non-Intel motherboards they were stuck. Apple latched on hard to Thunderbolt early (rightfully so in my opinion, it's a great technology) and that has kept them on Intel. They aren't just going to suddenly ditch Thunderbolt 3 when they've built so much around it. Now that it can be certified on motherboards with different vendor's CPUs I think things will start to change, though at this point it may change more for Apple getting it certified for motherboards with their own A-series CPU's, but we'll see. I'm glad that they now have options though, we'll see which directions they head over the next few years.
Theres simply not enough differences between the 9th Gen and 10th Gen H-Series to make it worth the wait. Base clock speeds are the same, still a 14nm part, iGPU is the same. The only differences I can see are the DDR4-2933 support (up from DDR4-2666) and Wi-Fi 6 is in the PCH, which Apple hasn’t started supporting yet in the Mac lineup. If you have a need now, pull the trigger. AMD doesn’t have any new GPUs for mobile at present to replace the 5300M/5500M as their next biggest concern is about getting BIG NAVI out the door.
Source: https://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-rx-gamma-gpu-big-navi-benchmarks-specs/
They’re basically the same price now; the 13” in the 16/512 config is $2,199. Then add $200 for the larger screen.
The 16” is actually a better deal than the 13” by far. The 14” will hopefully change the value equation a bit. I like the idea of using the H parts in cTDP down.
And everyone else’s argument for moving to AMD.
Definitely - I'm probably going to get a base 16-inch this year unless the 14-inch is significantly more powerful than the current 13-inch
Wait, these chips won't be available until October? I feel like that should have been mentioned in the article if so...
The $64,000 question is where are the “10th Gen” U-Series parts that Apple would typically use for the 13” MacBook Pro? I have not seen any rumors regarding 15w or 28w U-Series containing Iris Plus GPUs, either at 10nm or at 14nm+++. Actually the lack or rumors around these CPUs has been deafening.
I can only speculate that Apple is going to have to re-use the current 8th Gen U-Series CPUs in any new 14” MacBook Pro with scissors keys.
You can bet your bottom dollar Apple is not gonna include this in an updated 16 inch until November 2020. Suitable 10 NM CPUs for high end MBPs are likely not until late next year. But, I see the pattern here.
The 2015 15 inch MacBook Pro’s continued with Haswell while the Early 2015 13 inch MBP adopted 14 NM, so, this is history repeating itself all over again. What this also likely suggest is, 2020 13 inch MBP will get suitable 10 NM CPU’s, while next years 16 and 13 inch MBPs will be redesigns with 10 NM.
We all know how the last redesign went and things didn’t smooth out until 4 years after.
Rev A’s are always an early adopter nightmare. But it looks like waiting until 2024 to really buy a proven revision of the next gen MBP sounds the guaranteed path; knowing what has happened in the past.
The 2015 15 inch MacBook Pro’s continued with Haswell while the Early 2015 13 inch MBP adopted 14 NM, so, this is history repeating itself all over again. What this also likely suggest is, 2020 13 inch MBP will get suitable 10 NM CPU’s, while next years 16 and 13 inch MBPs will be redesigns with 10 NM.
We all know how the last redesign went and things didn’t smooth out until 4 years after.
Rev A’s are always an early adopter nightmare. But it looks like waiting until 2024 to really buy a proven revision of the next gen MBP sounds the guaranteed path; knowing what has happened in the past.
On their own these chips barely qualify as an update. The potential for WiFi 6 might be something you're interested in, if you're going to keep the machine a long time, but Apple might well choose not to update with these chips until that rumoured mini LED update in the last quarter.
I can still cancel, but I‘m definitely not going to, mostly because I need one for Logic pro and work.
AMD or Arm would be my preference; Intel is just full of, well, same-old same-old. All Intel does is update a peripheral standard or two on their next chipset (ex. USB, Wifi) and/or change their f*cking socket, again, wave their hands about some trivial micro-architecture tweak, and rake in the cash for yet-another-round of meaningless PC updates. The PC industry would be 10 years further down the road if it wasn't for MS and Intel "leading" through mediocracy.
Sure, if you don’t need it. But who knows if these parts will ever be in a Mac.
nvm, I see you just posted and do need it...