Intel Working on Standardized Thunderbolt Docking System for PCs

[PinkyMacGodess]

Yes, let's put a strong magnet around digital data transfer cables. What could possibly go wrong?

What could go wrong? Power isn't effected by the strong magnets. It's just an ingenious way, I think, to handle connecting to a device that could be used in many 'interesting' positions and areas. MagSafe is a darn good idea and has saved my MBP more times than I can count! Not to mention freaking out my dog that seems to be drawn to want to be snagged on cables for some unknown reason.

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I'm sorry that you "hate" docking stations.

I grew to loath the Dell docking stations. Inevitably the connector would fail after a random number of dock/undock operations and then things would get interesting. Things like the outboard USB connectors dying, or the keyboard/mouse ports dying... They weren't designed 'for the real word' and were more of a PITA than something useful. Why would anyone buy one if they really intended on using it a lot. The failure rate was way to high for one of our clients. I did have a client with an HP dock and it seemed to work better longer.

I find it's easier to just use the ports already on the notebook and plug everything in separately than use a dock.

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Funny/odd note: I stopped into an Apple Store and asked for 'a ThunderBolt cable', and in the ciaos that is an Apple Store, did not realize until I was already a half hour away that what I had was a standard DisplayPort cable, and not the ThunderBolt upgraded cable. I thought that the price was too low but had to get back on the road as it's a 2 hour drive to the 'local' mother ship.

 

[Lesser Evets]

It deifies logic how clumsy and stupid this is.

It's a very PC design. No one buying them will care or notice.

 

[divinox]

NO!!!!

I do not want Intel to destroy thunderbolt like this using a proprietary docking solution!

I'd much rather have other ports on my computer for non TBolt devices.

I want to be able to sit down at my desk and plug in one TBolt cable and let all my devices that use it power on. There's no need for some crazy docking solution with an ugly connector.

Grr....

open standard, not proprietary.

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Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

2012 MacBook pro will have a separate unit that the computer will be docked to for descrete graphics. I promise.

And when that happens, Apple fans over the world will start bitching about how Apple is changing everything, and how everyone else is copying them. Regardless of the fact that Sony beat them to the chase...

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Obviously, they care for it... as a feature, not as a product.

And the fact that selling it as a product takes away most incentives to buy it as a feature certainly has nothing to do with it.

The cinema display doesn't cut it for me, and many others will not throw out their perfectly functioning monitors just to get some docking functionality. Very simple. But then again, Apple never cared much for catering to users needs that fall outside of Apples master plan.

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What could go wrong? Power isn't effected by the strong magnets. It's just an ingenious way, I think, to handle connecting to a device that could be used in many 'interesting' positions and areas. MagSafe is a darn good idea and has saved my MBP more times than I can count! Not to mention freaking out my dog that seems to be drawn to want to be snagged on cables for some unknown reason.

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I grew to loath the Dell docking stations. Inevitably the connector would fail after a random number of dock/undock operations and then things would get interesting. Things like the outboard USB connectors dying, or the keyboard/mouse ports dying... They weren't designed 'for the real word' and were more of a PITA than something useful. Why would anyone buy one if they really intended on using it a lot. The failure rate was way to high for one of our clients. I did have a client with an HP dock and it seemed to work better longer.

I find it's easier to just use the ports already on the notebook and plug everything in separately than use a dock.

-------------

Funny/odd note: I stopped into an Apple Store and asked for 'a ThunderBolt cable', and in the ciaos that is an Apple Store, did not realize until I was already a half hour away that what I had was a standard DisplayPort cable, and not the ThunderBolt upgraded cable. I thought that the price was too low but had to get back on the road as it's a 2 hour drive to the 'local' mother ship.

First off, I'm neither a physicist nor an electrician, but my gut feeling tells me that magnets can cause interference with electronic signals running through cables. However, if signals are optical, rather than electrical, i guess its pretty much "problem solved".

As for finding it easier to connect multiple cables as opposed to one, well... some people are strange. Perhaps you're one of them :- )

 

[Ieo]

...Apple's own solution has been much simpler. Their Thunderbolt Cinema Display offers a single cable which splits into a Thunderbolt cable and a Magsafe power cable. The Thunderbolt cable carries USB 2.0, FireWire 800, Ethernet, and Video from your laptop to the monitor...

Really? What I'm seeing is still a single cable that pigtails out into two separate connections that each require independent manipulation for attachment....and requires the purchase of a $1000 monitor to serve as a hub at the other end. Mighty expensive solution to a relatively simple problem. The Intel solution also doesn't require ethernet to take up thunderbolt bandwidth.

 

[Dbrown]

TB cant power certain devices over a single connector. Intel is trying to standardize a cable/connector that can power devices which has a plug with 2 connectors.

Why do some people seem to not be able to understand what is going on.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Simpler, but more expensive: in a pure Thunderbolt device like the Cinema Display, to support USB 2.0, FireWire 800, Ethernet, audio, etc, there must be controller chips for each on the Thunderbolt device itself.

It's not acting as a hub in a classic sense, "extending" those connectors from the laptop -- it's duplicating those types of connectors by including a full additional controller for each, and connecting them all to the laptop via PCI-e.

To put it another way: it's not acting like half-a-dozen extension cables all at once; it's acting like half-a-dozen expansion cards at once, because (for all intents and purposes) it is.

It's an elegantly versatile way of handling the age-old docking station problem, but it comes with a high price tag, because it means the docking station needs to be half a computer all on its own. For something like the MacBook Air, which doesn't include it's own Firewire or Ethernet controllers to begin with, that makes a lot of sense. But you can understand why PC manufacturers might want to save costs by avoiding some of that unnecessary duplication, which is presumably one of the features of this extended port.

(But then you're halfway back to the problems always posed by proprietary docking ports. Personally, I doubt this semi-TB docking system will really take off. In the long run, the costs of controller chips for Apple's approach isn't that much, and the resulting benefits in versatility are probably worth it.)

Actually the thunderbolt display is the same price as the 27" MDP display it replaced. So the extra cost was minimal and didn't have to be passed onto the consumer.

 

[AidenShaw]

I grew to loath the Dell docking stations. Inevitably the connector would fail after a random number of dock/undock operations and then things would get interesting.

Out of curiosity, which Dell laptop/dock standard?

Our standard laptop setup is to get a Dell Latitude and two docking stations (one for home, one for work). These connect to the laptop through a special connector on the bottom of the laptop - you set the laptop on top of the dock and push 'til it clicks.

Haven't had a single connector problem in roughly 250 laptop-years with this setup.

I find it's easier to just use the ports already on the notebook and plug everything in separately than use a dock.

...and cause wear-and-tear on the laptop and its motherboard....

First off, I'm neither a physicist nor an electrician, but my gut feeling tells me that magnets can cause interference with electronic signals running through cables. However, if signals are optical, rather than electrical, i guess its pretty much "problem solved".

Moving wires through magnetic fields can cause stray currents - stationary magnets not an issue.

Mighty expensive solution to a relatively simple problem. The Intel solution also doesn't require ethernet to take up thunderbolt bandwidth.

Actually more to the point - the Intel solution can deal with WoL and other special cases without keeping the entire T-Bolt controllers and chassis running.

 

[aldocg]

While we're on the topic of single cable solutions and all that:

Why don't we move to single-cable video output/power solutions?

The Thunderbolt port is capable of outputting 10 watts, as well as its 10gbps throughput.

Why don't we take this:
http://www.itproportal.com/2011/06/03/asus-shows-24-inch-led-usb-powered-monitor/

And make it thunderbolt?

No display cable, no power cable from the monitor to your outlet.

Your thunderbolt drives everything. Video, Data (for docking) and power.

10 Watts is more than enough for a good sized monitor.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Or maybe the reason is that Apple has 'standardized' on the MagSafe for power and their implementation of their ThunderBolt port.

What actually gets me is that Apple hasn't extended the MagSafe concept to other connectors for the entire line. I'd like to see them come up with a MagSafe USB adapter and a MagSafe ThunderBolt adapter. MagSafe audio too.

Think of the docking possibilities if the whole left side of the MacBook Pro, for example, was MagSafed. Slip it in, pop it out. I know of a few people with PeeCee notebooks who have fractured their USB ports, and broken thumb drives, by having their notebook on their lap/bed/airplane/hotel. I myself have had issues with my MacBook Pro being almost pulled off a table by a marauding dog sharking the kitchen table when they trip over the cables and the power pops off and the ethernet, or USB, nearly drags it to the floor and certain heartache...

MagSafe is, IMO, an industry changing technology. Sticking things into notebooks is bad enough. Having them lock in just invites sadness and tears.

It's time for Apple to 'Think Different' and ditch the snap-in plugs! Free your notebook! Declare independence from old technology! Start a new market for companies to make adapters! I think it would work...

Oh god no. Last thing I want is for my MB to use entirely proprietary connectors. I like the fact I have USB and FireWire, and that I have a standard 3.5mm jack for headphones. Magsafe is fine for power, but I want every other connector to be industry standard. Thunderbolt will achieve that as the connector is compatible with MDP so it is likely that PC laptops will start using MDP.

 

[phpmaven]

I find it funny that so many of these stories add the comment that a certain company is "quietly" adding certain features or "quietly" acquiring another company etc... as if they were doing something sneaky or underhanded.

 

[AdrianWerner]

Dock stations are a bulky disaster.

I don't know about diseaster when they make my laptop last almost three times longer on batter than iPad does.

Dock stations are nice when done properly. When you need mobility to leave them behind and when you need CD drives and crapload of ports you take then with you. No compromise between usability and mobility.
I just wish they would also put GPU into them.

 

[APlotdevice]

Yes, let's put a strong magnet around digital data transfer cables. What could possibly go wrong?

Absolutely nothing whatsoever. Even if what is actually quite a weak magnet could cause a stray current, which as someone else pointed out it would need to be moving, it would be too subtle to have any effect on a digital signal. Digital either works or it doesn't.

 

[Gemütlichkeit]

Question, why is having two separate plugs "simpler" than having but one? Common logic would state the contrary.

.

Having 1 means it will work with 1 setup. Having them split and moveable allows apple to produce 1 cable set that will work on multiple designs based on hardware layouts. it's more flexible

 

[Piggie]

I don't get how 1 plug/cable is not more simple than 1 cable that splits into two.

I love my Air, but I'd kill for a good dock.

Don't you understand.... It's because Apple made one cable split into two at the end that this is considered the right way by Apple fans.

If Apple had one connector and PC's had a wire that split into two which had to be plugged into two separate holes individually, then it would be slammed as a messy design & the Apple one plug idea would be the far neater option.

That's how it works here

Rules and opinions are modified to suite each occasion

 

[MacAudioPro]

don't you understand.... It's because apple made one cable split into two at the end that this is considered the right way by apple fans.

If apple had one connector and pc's had a wire that split into two which had to be plugged into two separate holes individually, then it would be slammed as a messy design & the apple one plug idea would be the far neater option.

That's how it works here

rules and opinions are modified to suite each occasion

qft

 

[tmagman]

is it just me but does that connector look sorta like a 30pin? Could apple perhaps latch onto this which could lead to a thunderbolt i-thing connection?

 

[MattInOz]

The non-Thunderbolt port would reportedly be used for power as well as direct access for the Ethernet controller which is required to support technologies such as Intel vPro and Microsoft's Connected Standby.

I don't understand why these features can't or don't work with any NIC attached to the machines PCIe network. Does that mean both these features can be defeated by plugging your own ethernet NIC into the Thunderbolt connector?

Or is more the case of Intel trying to protect their chipset business now that most function has been embedded in the CPU or could be provided by opening more direct PCIe lanes on the CPU instead of DMI attached chipset.

 

[AidenShaw]

10 Watts is more than enough for a good sized monitor.

LOL !!

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC007LL/A?fnode=MTY1NDA5OQ

Electrical Requirements

- Input voltage: 100V to 240V AC; 50-60Hz
- Maximum power: 250W (LED Cinema Display while charging MacBook Pro)​

That's not the T-Bolt display - it's the dumb one! The T-Bolt display is also rated at 250W.

(Note that the 17" MBP comes with an 85 watt toxic white plastic power brick....)

 

[JAT]

Don't you understand.... It's because Apple made one cable split into two at the end that this is considered the right way by Apple fans.

If Apple had one connector and PC's had a wire that split into two which had to be plugged into two separate holes individually, then it would be slammed as a messy design & the Apple one plug idea would be the far neater option.

That's how it works here

Rules and opinions are modified to suite each occasion

And the "Apple fans" have stated they disliked a cable design, while you dislike actual people. So nice to have you here.

 

[divinox]

Oh god no. Last thing I want is for my MB to use entirely proprietary connectors. I like the fact I have USB and FireWire, and that I have a standard 3.5mm jack for headphones. Magsafe is fine for power, but I want every other connector to be industry standard. Thunderbolt will achieve that as the connector is compatible with MDP so it is likely that PC laptops will start using MDP.

If you read this article, you'll see that chances are high that they're moving in the exact opposite direction. In fact, i really can't see any real benefits at all of going MDP.... unless it became standard that is, but i don't find that very likely to be frank.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

10 Watts is more than enough for a good sized monitor.

That is rich and oh so very wrong.

I have an energy Star rated monitor on my desk that when powered on pulls around 100watts. This from the power monitor that it is plugged into.

It is a 17 lcd monitor.
10 watts is just funny.

 

[realbrandon]

I think all laptops and tablets should have the same power and data connection. Makes it a whole lot of easier for all of us. Apple should join the party as well.

 

[AidenShaw]

And the "Apple fans" have stated they disliked a cable design, while you dislike actual people. So nice to have you here.

Where did Piggie say that she disliked anyone?

 

[ThunderSkunk]

Makes me think 5 things.

1. That big plug is ugly. But, so is a bifurcated wire with two plugs.

2. As well, Apples new cylindrical magsafe connector is only "safe" when pulled within 90 of the possible 180 degrees it can be pulled in, requires either running your cable out the back, or blocking a bunch of ports, and is larger and ganglier than the original as well.

3. Some kind of quick release plug would be great for peripherals, except that in the event they popped off, you'd lose your partition map & data on any hard drives attached.

4. Having used the 30 ACD, the 24", and the iPad as an external display (& a touchscreen one at that), I've found the iPad the handiest, but it struggles to run over WiFi. However, having it run: Jailbroken>Air Display>MyWi USB mode, made it crisp & responsive. Though, making it run all that crap to get around Apples strange anti-usb stance nearly caused it to overheat and wore the battery down in under an hour. There's no reason Apple couldn't implement this themselves with Thunderbolt and do it right. It'd also end miserable hour-long backups.

5. I'm hungry for a sandwich.

 

[AidenShaw]

3. Some kind of quick release plug would be great for peripherals, except that in the event they popped off, you'd lose your partition map & data on any hard drives attached.

Yes, very sad when you accidentally disconnect an active RAID array.