Intel Working on Standardized Thunderbolt Docking System for PCs

[divinox]

I don't know about diseaster when they make my laptop last almost three times longer on batter than iPad does.

Dock stations are nice when done properly. When you need mobility to leave them behind and when you need CD drives and crapload of ports you take then with you. No compromise between usability and mobility.
I just wish they would also put GPU into them.

Sony Vaio Z.

Docking station includes integrated AMD Radeon HD6650M 1GB GFX. If i remember my products correctly, it also has the option of attaching a battery plate to the bottom for 14 hour battery life (7+7).

Wickedly expensive, but the absolute best for what it does. For now, at least.

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I think all laptops and tablets should have the same power and data connection. Makes it a whole lot of easier for all of us. Apple should join the party as well.

If they did, how could they keep selling dirt cheap cables/adaptors at insane prices?

 

[AidenShaw]

If they did, how could they keep selling dirt cheap cables/adaptors at insane prices?

They could hire the Best Buy "Monster Cable" salespeople to train the Apple Store clones.

No problem.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

I think all laptops and tablets should have the same power and data connection. Makes it a whole lot of easier for all of us. Apple should join the party as well.

Yeah that will never happen. Apple and following standards do not belong in the same sentence. Just look at Apple and it's token following of the micro usb standard for cell phones.

 

[divinox]

They could hire the Best Buy "Monster Cable" salespeople to train the Apple Store clones.

No problem.

Strangely enough without really understanding that post, i think i understand your post exactly. Buying cables always sends shivers down my spine... ****, even after telling them, they won't listen.

apple:Magical cables™ ... yeah, i could see that scenario developing).


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Completely and utterly off topic. My newly repaired MBA seems to make these strange metallic plucking noises (infrequently and somewhat randomly). Am i going insane, or what could it possibly be? Recently switched I/O board, if that is out of interest for anyone.

 

[Sol]

Looks like something designed by engineers. Thunderbolt already does so much through one simple port and now Intel is doing its best to take away from that simplicity. The standard will not become ubiquitous by confusing the market for it with variations on the technology like this. Intel should stick to the vision of Thunderbolt that Apple had when it introduced it in its products.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I think all laptops and tablets should have the same power and data connection. Makes it a whole lot of easier for all of us. Apple should join the party as well.

The European Union is doing that by making manufacturers use interchangeable power supplies and batteries. How many people have had older notebooks and the battery has died only to find out that the battery was a proprietary one and isn't made anymore. I've got two right now that I wish I could find batteries for, and hope that nothing happens to the power bricks.

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They could hire the Best Buy "Monster Cable" salespeople to train the Apple Store clones.

No problem.

The markup on nearly all cables runs between 75% and 150% or more. Some of the prices, the margins, are incredible...

 

[AidenShaw]

Strangely enough without really understanding that post, i think i understand your post exactly. Buying cables always sends shivers down my spine... ****, even after telling them, they won't listen.

apple:Magical cables™ ... yeah, i could see that scenario developing).

I've had similar thoughts when I've seen the posts saying that the most recently rumoured "Apple TV" would have a "retina display".

Don't these people realize that 1080p is the highest quality that studio content is delivered in today, and that if Apple produced a display with more pixels it would either be wasted or suffer from scaling artifacts?

Completely and utterly off topic. My newly repaired MBA seems to make these strange metallic plucking noises (infrequently and somewhat randomly). Am i going insane, or what could it possibly be? Recently switched I/O board, if that is out of interest for anyone.

Since the fans and disk drive are the main components with moving parts, I'd first run a full S.M.A.R.T. diagnostic on the hard drive - clicking (clunking, plucking) are often signs of a drive that's failing.

And I would definitely head back to the (often inappropriately named) Genius Bar and ask for a replacement system.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Out of curiosity, which Dell laptop/dock standard?

Our standard laptop setup is to get a Dell Latitude and two docking stations (one for home, one for work). These connect to the laptop through a special connector on the bottom of the laptop - you set the laptop on top of the dock and push 'til it clicks.

Haven't had a single connector problem in roughly 250 laptop-years with this setup.

I can't remember the exact models but one was a silver Latitude as I remember. Had a weird docking plate with a monitor stand over the whole thing and a huge lever on the side. The dock connector failed shortly after it was put into use and the user didn't 'think it was important' and didn't tell anyone for months. When I git involved, the NIC part of the connector had failed. They wanted wireless to 'fix a problem' and finally told me what was going on. I just jacked in to the notebook jack and all was good, until they somehow yanked the thing in a hurry and cracked the NIC connector housing. Then the video connector part of the dock connector failed. Dell wouldn't replace the dock, and grudgingly replaced the notebook, and the problems persisted. They chucked the dock and I believe the notebook too...

 

[divinox]

Looks like something designed by engineers. Thunderbolt already does so much through one simple port and now Intel is doing its best to take away from that simplicity. The standard will not become ubiquitous by confusing the market for it with variations on the technology like this. Intel should stick to the vision of Thunderbolt that Apple had when it introduced it in its products.

By your definition the only way to reach a standard is by "copying" Apple. Thing is, the market won't be confused by this. Second, this (or something like it) will most likely become ubiquitous. Ubiquitous here meaning "used on everything but Apple computers, as Apple always knows best, even when it doesn't").

In short, Apple will be the (only) variation. Simple as that.

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I've had similar thoughts when I've seen the posts saying that the most recently rumoured "Apple TV" would have a "retina display".

Don't these people realize that 1080p is the highest quality that studio content is delivered in today, and that if Apple produced a display with more pixels it would either be wasted or suffer from scaling artifacts?

Nu-uh. Haven't you heard. Apple will fix TV, Jobs cracked it. In 12 months from now, you will stream 4k a la carte, and mirror everything wirelessly, realtime to all your iOS devices.

Since the fans and disk drive are the main components with moving parts, I'd first run a full S.M.A.R.T. diagnostic on the hard drive - clicking (clunking, plucking) are often signs of a drive that's failing.

And I would definitely head back to the (often inappropriately named) Genius Bar and ask for a replacement system.

MBA, SSD drive. No Genius bar nearby. Heck, don't even think we have one in our country (Sweden). Anyway, I really don't get where the hell the sound comes from :- )

I mean, the only moving part should be the fan, right? But... i really don't think it is the fan either. Fan is top left, and if anything, the sound appears to be coming from bottom right. So... yeah. Oh well, if i keep hearing it and can isolate for sure that its coming from within the computer i guess ill visit the repair center again. Nice people working there, they'd have it checked through in just a few minutes.

 

[AidenShaw]

I can't remember the exact models but one was a silver Latitude as I remember. Had a weird docking plate with a monitor stand over the whole thing and a huge lever on the side. The dock connector failed shortly after it was put into use and the user didn't 'think it was important' and didn't tell anyone for months. When I git involved, the NIC part of the connector had failed. They wanted wireless to 'fix a problem' and finally told me what was going on. I just jacked in to the notebook jack and all was good, until they somehow yanked the thing in a hurry and cracked the NIC connector housing. Then the video connector part of the dock connector failed. Dell wouldn't replace the dock, and grudgingly replaced the notebook, and the problems persisted. They chucked the dock and I believe the notebook too...

Oh, the "silver" one.

As I said, in several hundred "laptop years" we haven't seen this or any other connector problems.

YMMV, of course.

 

[vitzr]

It (Thunderbolt) is Intel's standard, they can do what they like. They have rights to use the DisplayPort port spec, otherwise thunderbolt would never have happened.

In addition, Apple do NOT own the Display Port, its an industry standard just like USB, HDMI, etc.

Apple dont own the rights to thunderbolt in any way shape or form, they adopted a standard (again, just like USB, HDMI, etc) early to help Intel out in getting the initial roll out started.

As for the two ports it was NON OPTIONAL.

Thunderbolt cant carry power, at all. So a second port is needed to provide power to unpowered devices. The reason thunderbolt doesn't have power is quite simply because the pathetic 5v that USB offers wouldn't be enough, and you cant realistically offer high power through something like thunderbolt as it just becomes a huge problem with power restrictions from the mainboard. Read up about it before bitching that Intel are doing it wrong...they know a hell of a lot more about the industry than the entire MacRumors user base.

Kudos for your exemplary post.

You've educated many here who may not have the experience to appreciate the full capabilities & flexibility of an ultra fast, stable & ever so secure PC.

I have the good fortune of having both Apples finest, as well as PC's in my cross platform environment, that would blow away the average computer user.

 

[Dbrown]

While we're on the topic of single cable solutions and all that:

Why don't we move to single-cable video output/power solutions?

The Thunderbolt port is capable of outputting 10 watts, as well as its 10gbps throughput.

Why don't we take this:
http://www.itproportal.com/2011/06/03/asus-shows-24-inch-led-usb-powered-monitor/

And make it thunderbolt?

No display cable, no power cable from the monitor to your outlet.

Your thunderbolt drives everything. Video, Data (for docking) and power.

10 Watts is more than enough for a good sized monitor.

Not enough for a GPU.

 

[redkamel]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

When you plug a laptop into a new display, it recognizes the display, relaunches both screens, and moves your icons if the larger screen is your primary. I don't want to do that everytime I need charge my laptop.

 

[beck33]

Actually that couldn't be further from the truth.

However I can understand why maintaining that line of thinking fulfills your emotional needs to validate your choices. Nice work

I love how you're quick to be dismissive yet can't take the time to actually give a response with any substance. If it 'couldn't be further from the truth' it should have been easy to tell everyone why, but you didn't.

If you have nothing of value to add, you could try simply not talking. I'm always amazed at the number of apple haters that show up here, but it makes it even worse when you have nothing at all to add but noise.

Nice work indeed.

 

[bijanorama]

Why can't we just have 1 port to rule them all?

 

[thekev]

Looks like something designed by engineers. Thunderbolt already does so much through one simple port and now Intel is doing its best to take away from that simplicity. The standard will not become ubiquitous by confusing the market for it with variations on the technology like this. Intel should stick to the vision of Thunderbolt that Apple had when it introduced it in its products.

You know I dislike different connectors. If the intention was to deliver power like this, the Apple version should have been designed differently. The Apple way is not always the best possible way of producing a product or feature. I don't see thunderbolt ever making it to IOS devices. I think it would be more likely that one of the short range wireless standards will eventually be used for things like mirroring an ipad to an external display. If that came out, everyone would think Apple invented it .

While we're on the topic of single cable solutions and all that:

Why don't we move to single-cable video output/power solutions?

The Thunderbolt port is capable of outputting 10 watts, as well as its 10gbps throughput.

Why don't we take this:
http://www.itproportal.com/2011/06/03/asus-shows-24-inch-led-usb-powered-monitor/

And make it thunderbolt?

No display cable, no power cable from the monitor to your outlet.

Your thunderbolt drives everything. Video, Data (for docking) and power.

10 Watts is more than enough for a good sized monitor.

You're not really comparing to anything here. The Apple display is quite power hungry. What I dislike is that whether or not the alternative solution is more functional, people are criticizing it simply because it's not as pretty. Lining up a couple pins to plug something in should not seem like a chore. It's virtually effortless, and if it provides superior functionality at a minor aesthetic cost, it's still a better solution.

 

[adder7712]

Bulky, where?
Image

Big, bulky, complicated? Where?
Image
Second, with thunderbolt being pushed to market, you will certainly see others doing the same thing pop up here and there (just like you today see monitors with audio and usb-outputs for example). Problem is, once they do, you'll quit bitching about how sucky they are, and switch over to the "they just copy" routine.

You see, that is how the average Apple troll operates. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. That is the melody.

I actually saw that laptop personally. I like the look of external GPU case. It's nowhere bulky, plus you can still use the laptop without the GPU hooked up.

 

[KevinN206]

Can someone explain to me which is faster and easier to hook-up? How can one say Apple's implementation is simpler?

Apple's TB:
1. Make sure the orientation is correct, plug in TB connector (10W max)
2. Make sure the orientation is correct, plug in MagSafe connector (for power)

Intel's proposed standard:
1. Make sure the orientation is correct, plug in TB and power connector all-in-one

With Intel's standard connector, the power that's available can be as much as the standard allows. The standard can easily require that the minimum power is 100W. The devices will ONLY require as much power as it's needed to function. As a result, you're not burning 100W constantly. Also remember that the TB can only supply 10W maximum. Typically, you don't want to run anything at maximum rating although there's usually a derating already by the manufacture.

 

[APlotdevice]

Can someone explain to me which is faster and easier to hook-up? How can one say Apple's implementation is simpler? .

I definitely wouldn't say it's simpler. Where Apple's solution does have an advantage is in versatility. After all their Thunderbolt display isn't just meant to plug into MacBooks, but also Mac Minis, iMacs, and additional Thunderbolt displays.

 

[MacAudioPro]

Oh, the "silver" one.

As I said, in several hundred "laptop years" we haven't seen this or any other connector problems.

YMMV, of course.

I concur. I worked for a fortune 500 company in the late 90's to the mid 2000's and the company had over 3000 employees on 30 floors all with Dell laptops and docking stations. The systems were all on an 18 month lease and I never heard of any problems with connections to the docks.

Of course, I was just one of many there and was working between the office and the field (as were many there). Some could of very well experienced problems with the dock. All I can say I never heard of it in my group.

 

[useme2305]

Yes, let's put a strong magnet around digital data transfer cables. What could possibly go wrong?

the solution to that would be optical data transfers.

 

[APlotdevice]

the solution to that would be optical data transfers.

An unnecessary solution, as a stationary magnet would not affect it in the slightest.

 

[lukarak]

Can someone explain to me which is faster and easier to hook-up? How can one say Apple's implementation is simpler?

Apple's TB:
1. Make sure the orientation is correct, plug in TB connector (10W max)
2. Make sure the orientation is correct, plug in MagSafe connector (for power)

Intel's proposed standard:
1. Make sure the orientation is correct, plug in TB and power connector all-in-one

With Intel's standard connector, the power that's available can be as much as the standard allows. The standard can easily require that the minimum power is 100W. The devices will ONLY require as much power as it's needed to function. As a result, you're not burning 100W constantly. Also remember that the TB can only supply 10W maximum. Typically, you don't want to run anything at maximum rating although there's usually a derating already by the manufacture.

Actually, magsafe goes in both ways.

And another thing is, i don't want to charge my laptop every time i plug it in a second monitor.

 

[useme2305]

An unnecessary solution, as a stationary magnet would not affect it in the slightest.

unnecessary is definitely the wrong word here. in the end optical is what we should aim for anyways in the farthest future (appr. 10 years).

 

[divinox]

I actually saw that laptop personally. I like the look of external GPU case. It's nowhere bulky, plus you can still use the laptop without the GPU hooked up.

Yup. And this is what modularity enforced by standards make possible --- if you don't have a mac like me that is :- (

Im sure that we in the "near" future will see docks merging with thin clients and NAS too. Have your laptop with you? Hook it up. Don't? You can still do the basics. Need more space? Extend the hard drive in the "dock". Background services doing syncing in the background, shooting up "not frequently used - yet relatively small - files" to the "dock". Docks communicating intelligently with each other, knowing what files to sync for instant access, and what others to keep "at distance". (Actually, i guess the way storage is going, you might as well duplicate it across the boards, but oh well..)

And so on and so forth...

Just hope Apple ceases to be so stubborn about doing things "their own way", so that i don't have to ditch my MBA in the process.

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Actually, magsafe goes in both ways.

And another thing is, i don't want to charge my laptop every time i plug it in a second monitor.

Why? Modern batteries afaik like it that way. Second, if it really is an issue, software (or hardware) switches will do the rest. Don't want to charge the battery until its at 20%, the computer will know. Ez pz.

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I definitely wouldn't say it's simpler. Where Apple's solution does have an advantage is in versatility. After all their Thunderbolt display isn't just meant to plug into MacBooks, but also Mac Minis, iMacs, and additional Thunderbolt displays.

And if this becomes an issue, you'll see cables taking care of that need (both split cables, and "single-purpose" cables). Supply and demand.

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Can someone explain to me which is faster and easier to hook-up? How can one say Apple's implementation is simpler?

Apple's TB:
1. Make sure the orientation is correct, plug in TB connector (10W max)
2. Make sure the orientation is correct, plug in MagSafe connector (for power)

Intel's proposed standard:
1. Make sure the orientation is correct, plug in TB and power connector all-in-one

With Intel's standard connector, the power that's available can be as much as the standard allows. The standard can easily require that the minimum power is 100W. The devices will ONLY require as much power as it's needed to function. As a result, you're not burning 100W constantly. Also remember that the TB can only supply 10W maximum. Typically, you don't want to run anything at maximum rating although there's usually a derating already by the manufacture.

Looking at the asymmetric design, you really don't have to make sure the orientation is correct even. Granted, apple has visual cues too on their tb-connector, but the cue is not as strong... unless you mean "orientation" as in lining it up. Either way, i agree with your overall point.