Intel's Plans for Low-Power Chips

[sjk]

My theory...Because they want the platform to be updated one last time to a point that makes the PowerBook competitive to the Pentium M. Why? Because of all their PPC software. As good as Rosetta may be it WILL be slower then having PPC software run on a PPC. Also they don't want to go out and buy new software for the new hardware. People have invested thousands on software packages. As good as the PowerBook is going to be for those of us that don't have a ton of money tied up in the software its going to suck just a little for those who are. So people are praying that Saint Jobs delivers a G5 miracle that will keep them going a few more years.

People who've invested thousands (your number) on PPC software sound like the same sort who'd be able to afford Intel-based Macs and any necessary software update fees for them. Even without a necessity for software updates they'd have to be able to afford a G5 PowerBook, if it existed.

Many people (especially in places like this) are just eager for any significant PowerBook update as the current G4 models grow longer in the tooth. Those who've been waiting and anticipating a G5 model the longest might be understandably impatient. While the transition to Intel makes things somewhat clearer it's also more painful for anyone who's still holding out for a PowerBook they'd be satisfied with.

I had doubts about a G5 PowerBook "coming soon" from the beginning and based some purchasing choices around that. Of course I've had my share of mistimed purchases based on mistaken hunches, too. 'Tis the nature of the game.

Anyway, I see what you're getting at but won't completely buy into your theory.

It ain't going to happen but well....people can hope.

There's never a shortage of opportunity to set yourself up for disappointment, then become angry and bitter when things don't turn out the way you wanted.

 

[sjk]

I am concerned about Intels memory controller. I hope they have some plans for that that can top what IBM/Apple have now.

I want to hear more about what's going to replace Open Firmware. Is that BIOS replacement (EFI) ready for production systems yet? Or by MWSF 2006, if indeed any Intel-based systems are announced then?

 

[delton05]

one thing I thought I'd never think ... I do like knowing whats coming in CPUs, unlike the agonising over hardware updates that goes on before every Macworld ... and all the Jobs brinkmanship ...

 

[aegisdesign]

Please excuse my ignorance toward Intel chips, but are any of these 64 bit?

Merom, Conroe and Woodcrest are. And they have improved SSE support and some of NetBursts faster memory architecture.

Those are the processors to wait for. The rest are so-so. I'd rather have PowerPC till then.

 

[DakotaGuy]

FANTASTIC,
could anyone put the performance bumo into perspective compared to theG4s or G5

cool

At least double the performance or possibly more.

 

[Dr. Dastardly]

one thing I thought I'd never think ... I do like knowing whats coming in CPUs, unlike the agonising over hardware updates that goes on before every Macworld ... and all the Jobs brinkmanship ...

I know what you mean. Even though I have learned that not to expect much from proc upgrades but extras. Not to mention that these at best just give a vauge direction on where the new Macs will be heading.

But at least its something of actual substance for the abundance of plausable rumors lately.

 

[DakotaGuy]

I look forward to the the new Intel line as well. However, I must defend the G5 chip for what it is. In its current incarnation, it is spectacular. What's retarded is IBM, and their lack of vision to take this chip into the future. PPC always had better potential than x86, but the developers of it didn't have the Intel drive. Sad, really.

I would disagree. I have two systems. An iMac G5 1.8Ghz at home and a 2.8Ghz P4 with Hyperthreading at the school. A single P4 will dust a single G5.

 

[aegisdesign]

Just a-w-e-s-o-m-e

Can't wait to get rid of those retarded G5's...

Oh how fickle we've become. The PowerPC architecture is 'retarded' now and the x86 architecture, which was a joke back in the 70s even compared to 6502, 6809 and 68K, is flavour of the month.

Really, there's nothing to see here till Merom and Conroe are in Macs. Yonah and Pressler are stopgaps and during that timeframe we'll still be running mostly PowerPC software on chips that aren't any faster than now. The 7448 and G5 would be a better choice for the next year, then think of switching.

Merom, at 5W will be fantastic though - 12 hour battery life out of a Powerbook perhaps? Completely silent passively cooled iMacs? Jobs would love that.

 

[aegisdesign]

I would disagree. I have two systems. An iMac G5 1.8Ghz at home and a 2.8Ghz P4 with Hyperthreading at the school. A single P4 will dust a single G5.

At what?

Games yes, applications no.

 

[chaos86]

3 items:

1) does wattage relate to heat output? if so, is it proportional? if they produce alot less heat (a quarter if its proportional) and consume less than a quarter of the power, why couldn't we have multi processor 'books?

2) is anyone as hesitant as me to buy the first (rev. a) mactels? i mean, they had enough problems after switching the ibooks from g3 to g4 in the same architechture group, imagine the headache involved in switching from apples to oranges (excuse the accidental play on words).

3) does anyone else think that intel sucks at code/nicknaming stuff? Presler? President Chrysler? Yonah? Sounds like an icelandic barbarian to me.

 

[Ghibli]

Why would anyone get a Yonah-based laptop in 1H'06 with Merom on the way a few months later in 2H'06? This is going to be very interesting!

Maybe we'll find the first on the iBook and the second on the Powerbook?

This seems a good bet

 

[aegisdesign]

3 items:

1) does wattage relate to heat output? if so, is it proportional? if they produce alot less heat (a quarter if its proportional) and consume less than a quarter of the power, why couldn't we have multi processor 'books?

2) is anyone as hesitant as me to buy the first (rev. a) mactels? i mean, they had enough problems after switching the ibooks from g3 to g4 in the same architechture group, imagine the headache involved in switching from apples to oranges (excuse the accidental play on words).

3) does anyone else think that intel sucks at code/nicknaming stuff? Presler? President Chrysler? Yonah? Sounds like an icelandic barbarian to me.

1) Yep. Power used = heat/noise to be dissipated somewhere. Why not multi-CPU? Space, cost, diminishing returns on performance per CPU added with single threaded apps and do people really need more than dual core 2-3Ghz CPUs in a laptop or would they rather have smaller, lighter laptops with better battery life?

2) Depends on what they do. If the first are Yonah based I'll pass as they won't run my current software faster than a PPC. If they are heavily customized boards, I'll pass. I'll probably pass anyway until OSX 10.5, Adobe CS3 and Macromedia's suite goes Intel also. Not much point otherwise.

3) It's a disease from years of Wintel-ness. Intel probably think they are doing ok in comparison to 'Longhorn' or 'Vista'. Most of the names come out of Intel's Israeli development group where Pentium M derived.

 

[AidenShaw]

back to the "style vs. substance" debates

3) does anyone else think that intel sucks at code/nicknaming stuff? Presler? President Chrysler? Yonah? Sounds like an icelandic barbarian to me.

Only in a Mac forum would people debate about the codenames for a product "sucking"....

"Whistler", "Blackcomb", "Longhorn" - three names with a clear connection.

"Klamath", "Coppermine", "Deschutes", "Williamette", "Northwood", "Katmai", "Williamette" - again a clear commonality.

Just because there isn't a "Yikes!" in the Intel stable....

 

[sinisterdesign]

Definitely. There's ample room a lot of cool stuff in there.

ample room & ample heat. i store raw meat in there when i get to work in the morning & by lunchtime i have a juicy burger.

joking aside it took me a while to figure out why i was rolling up my shirtsleeves every afternoon around 3-4. the G5 under my desk is blowing out heat that comes back on me & after it's on for a few hours it gets WAAARM.

my coworker was over at my desk the other day & said, "do you have a heater on over here?" "no, just my computer...". and that's a SINGLE CPU, the slowest G5 desktop, 1.6. i can't imagine the others...

 

[chaos86]

"Whistler", "Blackcomb", "Longhorn" - three names with a clear connection.

"Klamath", "Coppermine", "Deschutes", "Williamette", "Northwood", "Katmai", "Williamette" - again a clear commonality.

Maybe I'm uncultured but I don't know what they all have to do with each other.

Just because there isn't a "Yikes!" in the Intel stable....

point taken. yikes! was a dumb name

 

[digitalbiker]

I agree

Really, there's nothing to see here till Merom and Conroe are in Macs. Yonah and Pressler are stopgaps and during that timeframe we'll still be running mostly PowerPC software on chips that aren't any faster than now. The 7448 and G5 would be a better choice for the next year, then think of switching.

I agree. I'm hoping for a decent upgrade to the PowerBook in Paris. Hopefully the display, gpu, fsb, and cpu will all get a decent bump. That will be "THE" PB to own while this whole Intel transition takes place. Next worthwhile investment will be the 2nd gen Merom PB. By that time, hopefully Leopard will take advantage of x86 fully and native Pro apps will be readily available.

I, for one, am not in the least interested in a Yonah PB. It will be too expensive, too hot for a real thin PB enclosure, and not have any native app support.

 

[switchr92]

battery life?

I'm curious, does the monroe mean insane batterylife, or is it just my impression? Oh yeah, and whoever said yonah in iBooks and monroe in Pbooks is retarded, they're probably slower, if not the same spped, they are only have 5 watts, which is awesome, but not for "power" users, its a "low" power chip.

 

[AidenShaw]

Originally Posted by AidenShaw
"Whistler", "Blackcomb", "Longhorn" - three names with a clear connection.

"Klamath", "Coppermine", "Deschutes", "Williamette", "Northwood", "Katmai", "Williamette" - again a clear commonality.

Maybe I'm uncultured but I don't know what they all have to do with each other.

Whistler - ski area in Canada a few hours north of Redmond.

Blackcomb - side-shoot of Whistler, another ski area in Canada near Redmond

Longhorn - a popular bar/nightclub at the base of Whistler/Blackcomb

Klamath et al. - rivers in the U.S. Northwest

 

[sambo.]

nyah

they'll be here when they're here.

 

[sjk]

I'm curious to see if they even call these new computers Powermacs and Powerbooks at all, considering the fact that they are getting away from the PowerPC platform...

Yeah. I guess it depends on how much Apple thinks the Power in PowerBook/Mac is associated with the Power in PowerPC. And there'll be overlap when both PPC and Intel products co-exist

Somehow I don't think they are going to bother giving the chip a fancy marketing name because the chips are going to be fairly ubiquitous, unlike the PowerPC chips where really nobody else had them.

It's hard to imagine Apple using Intel chip code names in their system names. Maybe they'll just keep going with the "G" series and using PowerBook G6 for the first Intel PB. Or PowerBook I1.

Names having mattered to me since Apple decided to stick with iMac for the iMac G4 instead of giving it a new name along with the new design, then later using eMac for what looks like a bloated iMac G3.

Whatever.

It's obvious with the recent iBook and Mini updates that Apple has essentially stopped PPC development on those lines. I suspect anything with a G4 is now being moved to Intel. That's why I believe we'll see these lines move first to Intel.

Seems like plausible speculation to me.

 

[mccoma]

I'm curious, does the monroe mean insane batterylife, or is it just my impression? Oh yeah, and whoever said yonah in iBooks and monroe in Pbooks is retarded, they're probably slower, if not the same spped, they are only have 5 watts, which is awesome, but not for "power" users, its a "low" power chip.

It's a component of overall life and an important one, but the screen and hard drive tend to eat power too. I would imagine that given the stats, these will be better than the G4 (finally).

I thought the commentary on 'handtops' was interesting. When OLED is actually production ready and with flash / micro-hardrives, I could have a decent subnotebook from Apple.

 

[~Shard~]

Yeah because Apple never uses the I in anything right?

Yep, absolutely right - they use "i", not "I".

yup, it's true . . . the G5 is just a brain damaged Power4

Still waiting for some real facts to back up these claims of retardation instead of general statements...

 

[~Shard~]

Whistler - ski area in Canada a few hours north of Redmond.

Blackcomb - side-shoot of Whistler, another ski area in Canada near Redmond

Longhorn - a popular bar/nightclub at the base of Whistler/Blackcomb

You got it my friend - and all excellent areas! Can't say I've been to Longhorn myself, but have definitely been in Whistler and Blackcomb.

 

[~loserman~]

FANTASTIC,

wondering if the powerbooks will have, specially made processors exclusive for apple.

No offense intended here but (There is always a but when statements start off like that) We have moved into DREAM LAND now.

Apple is a very very small computer company. Their volume is tiny compared to the likes of Dell. Apple will NOT get better CPU's from Intel than Dell and others will receive. They wont even get as low prices for chips as Dell does because of the smaller volume.

 

[Evangelion]

X86 processors are junk. I wouldn't care if Steve Jobs himself made them, they're based on an antiquated architecture that should have died years ago.

Yet that "antiquated hardware" is faster than the "technically pure" PPC is. If PPC is so good, why do G5's run so hot? Why do they lag x86(-64) in many areas?

I don't care one bit about the architecture. I care about the features and power the CPU gives me.

Partially off-topic: it's very interesting to see the reaction in here. Not long ago everybody told how Intel/x86 sucks, and how PPC is the future. Now everyone is telling how x86/Intel kicks ass. I guess dictionarys should have an entry called "Doing a 180-degrees change in opinion in a relatively short time: see "Apple's userbase"" .