Intel's Processor Roadmap Leaves Uncertainty for Apple's 2014 Mac Updates

[mtneer]

Dear Tim Cook: Why are you allowing your companies fortunes to be dictated by waiting on Intel? Why don't you take some of that 100 billion that your company has in cash and buy AMD.Then hire the best of the best and make the best cpu's in the world! Please don't become another Microsoft and sit back afraid to make a mistake! Take a chance Tim,and let Apple control the cpu market!

AMD let go of its manufacturing operations last decade. They have a design house - but Apple is already one of the best, if not the best, in processor design. AMD wouldn't add much to Apple.

Intel has manufacturing operations - albeit no match for the capabilities of TSMC/ Samsung who successfully churn out billions of processors on the clock without Intel-sized screwups.

Apple could buy Intel's manufacturing operations & turn that ship around. Apple has the cash and engineering prowess to do that.

 

[quagmire]

Wasn't the 780M just a rebranded 680MX? That means the 880M is a 680MX with 4 x the RAM and an ever so slightly higher clock?

I really dislike the whole rebranding thing. It's confusing for many people. I personally feel that if they change the first number of the GPU, then it should be a new model, not a rebrand.

Basically. So the next iMac will be pretty minor unless you need that 8 GB of space. Once it does go Maxwell, should be pretty decent bump GPU wise.

 

[iRun26.2]

Dear Tim Cook: Why are you allowing your companies fortunes to be dictated by waiting on Intel? Why don't you take some of that 100 billion that your company has in cash and buy AMD.Then hire the best of the best and make the best cpu's in the world! Please don't become another Microsoft and sit back afraid to make a mistake! Take a chance Tim,and let Apple control the cpu market!

But what guarantee is there that AMD will ever catch Intel?

No matter how inexpensive an AMD based notebook computer is now, I would never buy it and would always pay more for an Intel based laptop because of the great performance with so little power. There is no competition for Intel right now for x86 processors.

 

[sahnjuro]

Dear Tim Cook: Why are you allowing your companies fortunes to be dictated by waiting on Intel? Why don't you take some of that 100 billion that your company has in cash and buy AMD.Then hire the best of the best and make the best cpu's in the world! Please don't become another Microsoft and sit back afraid to make a mistake! Take a chance Tim,and let Apple control the cpu market!

Apple can throw their $100 billion dollars around, but some laws of physics can get rather expensive, if not impossible, to beat. The problem (or challenge) facing Intel is what is known in some circle as the end of Moore's law, which states that the transistor count in each successive generation doubles through reduction of feature size of chips.

Intel has been masterful at pushing the envelop of photolithography to maintain the pace of innovation in chip making. Broadwell line of CPU is supposed to be fabricated on 14nm node. 14nm is about 20 times smaller than the wave length of blue light, which is about 300nm.

As things get smaller, one eventually runs out of atoms. Intel is finding out that 14nm is awfully small and it is hard to make chips reliably simply by extrapolating the tried and true techniques.

Not sure Apple buying AMD or even Intel is a solution. (It would be smarter for Apple to stay out of chip fab business altogether.) Some problems are simply too hard to beat.

What is likely will happen is that Intel will eventually find ways to solve the problems they are facing, but the pace of chip release associated with reduction in feature sizes will slow to trickle and will get longer and more expensive over time. This applies to ARM processors as well.

In few year's time, each new release of mac, ipad, or iphone may not accompany the latest or the greatest in the CPU made simply through reduction of feature sizes and increase in the transistor count. Innovations will have to come elsewhere. (Some would say that the days of reckoning where pace of innovation in technology will slow down is already here.)

 

[alexgowers]

I don't undertand how this puts apple in any position where it is behind anyone else, this affect every computer.

I suspect apple is actually going to get some nice mac old processors early from intel if apple puts some pressure on intel to do so to keep to a release schedule.

Thought from past experience the apple computers will be updated and given new features based on when apple has them ready, chasing spec bumps is just pointless for 80% of purchasers who don't even know when a new mac is coming out. Hell apple even keep designs so similar only hardcore fans know the exact model they are looking at in a blind test.

Performance boost have come with haswell, not much more can be extracted with broad well without compromises being made to processor power.

Personally would prefer more battery and stable computing vs power hungry minor speed bump.

 

[Piggie]

I don't undertand how this puts apple in any position where it is behind anyone else, this affect every computer.

I suspect apple is actually going to get some nice mac old processors early from intel if apple puts some pressure on intel to do so to keep to a release schedule.

Thought from past experience the apple computers will be updated and given new features based on when apple has them ready, chasing spec bumps is just pointless for 80% of purchasers who don't even know when a new mac is coming out. Hell apple even keep designs so similar only hardcore fans know the exact model they are looking at in a blind test.

Performance boost have come with haswell, not much more can be extracted with broad well without compromises being made to processor power.

Personally would prefer more battery and stable computing vs power hungry minor speed bump.

As I said earlier.

Apple COULD bring in a lot of GPU power to all their Macs. And code the OS and more and more Apps to really use this new power, but they won't as they refuse to fit high end GPU's in their desktop machines, as they keep making them thinner and they have always run hot, even with laptop graphics card in them, let alone proper full power ones.

They could do this tomorrow, but they won't

 

[Burger Thing]

Instead you have to mess with internal HDDs and internal 17" screen in your 3 kg schlepptop*. You only have internalized all the trouble, you don't like to have externally. Next thing you add is an internal ODD. And than a FDD.

*(to schlepp + laptop = schlepptop)

While I believe, that my posting you responded to, went right over your head, because you obviously missed most of the points, I still had to LOL.

No, i certainly don't feel that i have 'internalized' my trouble. On the road I open up my 7k bag, and personally I don't frikkin' care, if the laptop inside weighs 2.3 kg or 3 kg. But what I do care is, that when I open the lid I have 2 TB with all my required video raw files available and the 17" screen allows me to edit or manipulate comfortably on a relatively big screen without a sluggish and tiny UI

And when bigger SSDs come available and affordable, I open up the backside and replace my existing 2 SHDD/HDDs to have faster and more storage, which takes me about 5 min.

Apple makes billions. Sad, that some of you, obviously not in the need of a professional portable laptop for content creation, are trying to justify every move makes. Personally, I feel it would be nice if would offer some nice, powerful Flagship devices, even if it was catered for the niche markets. It certainly would't hurt you, because you could still buy your 15" laptop to 'facebook' and I could get a nice retina 17" to do my work.

Ah, how nice it would be, if we had choices, no wouldn't it.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

This article acts like other computer makers don't face the same dilemma or are AMD's upcoming CPUs all that and a bag of Doritos?

 

[doitdada]

Macbook

I can see there is a lot of nostalgia still hanging in the air regarding the 17", and I'm glad I sold mine. It was upgraded to the maximum, with an extra HDD instead of Superdrive.

I may traded away a lot of power, but I sure love how cool my new retina display computer runs, how the fans never whine, and how portable the machine is. I almost never took the 17" with me, though I don't work with video that much, it always stayed on my desk, I actually used my wifes Macbook Air 2010 to do work outside of home, coding + photoshop.

I understand the need to edit on the road, but if performance matters, I would rather buy a Mac Pro. In laptop I can allow myself to wait a second or two, as long as it doesn't whine or get hot all the time. I'm actually welcoming more integrated graphics in laptops. For video I would always use a desktop beast with dedicated graphics, maybe do a few small bits on a laptop, but not day-to-day business.

The new retina MBP is still a work in progress. Integrated GPU trying to outfox dedicated GPUs are still also a work in progress, but I like the way it is heading, because portability equals more usage.

 

[scottrichardson]

Dear Tim Cook: Why are you allowing your companies fortunes to be dictated by waiting on Intel? Why don't you take some of that 100 billion that your company has in cash and buy AMD.Then hire the best of the best and make the best cpu's in the world! Please don't become another Microsoft and sit back afraid to make a mistake! Take a chance Tim,and let Apple control the cpu market!

I would put a safe bet on the fact that Tim and co. at Apple would certainly NOT like being forced into Intel's timeline, and I would put money on the fact that they would be looking at viable options to get around the situation - some drastic, some not so much. Buying AMD, or even just working with Intel more intensely on getting new products out the door are pretty easy for Apple to do. Bringing ARM up to the Mac platform would be a much more major task - but not too far out of the realm of possibility.

 

[Tech198]

Apple's running out of steam huh ?

Everyone needs a break..

 

[scottrichardson]

Basically. So the next iMac will be pretty minor unless you need that 8 GB of space. Once it does go Maxwell, should be pretty decent bump GPU wise.

Looks like the 880M has a ~10% increase in clock speed. Given the 780M also had a minor clock speed jump over the 680MX, then it would be safe to say that the 880M is at LEAST, a modest jump in performance, say around ~20%.

But yes, it looks like it will either be the 880MX, or perhaps a a 9xxM card that provides Maxwell.

 

[GregA]

That would ruin the MBA!

Apple would lose me as a customer (but maybe they think there are enough people who would want an iPad with a built in keyboard).

If an arm base "iBook Air" looked like a MacBook Air it would have to be cheaper. $800 for 128gb iPad and $1000 for 128gb MBA, so what would an Arm MBA cost?

While it could look similar it would be different and appeal to different people. And would it have a retina display? Track pad? An iOS device could halve its ssd size fairly safely too

Interestingly an 11inch widescreen is the same height as iPad 9.7" on its side, just wider, so the apps should fit well and lead towards 16:9 iPads.

Personally I think the biggest problem with going arm is that it implies an integration future direction, and apple has to carefully manage any message there. An extra, light laptop allows them to position it as an iPad extension not a mac transition, and they could keep the regular MBA for a year to see how people respond and what Intel offers in their 2015 chips - so I think you'd be safe @irun.

(I'd rather buy my kids a cheap 20" imac with arm chip, appleTV and iOS)

 

[juminoz]

Maybe Apple should just make their own CPU and be done with. Then they can have full control of the release schedule.

 

[AppleHater]

As I said earlier.

Apple COULD bring in a lot of GPU power to all their Macs. And code the OS and more and more Apps to really use this new power, but they won't as they refuse to fit high end GPU's in their desktop machines, as they keep making them thinner and they have always run hot, even with laptop graphics card in them, let alone proper full power ones.

They could do this tomorrow, but they won't

That's because high performance gaming GPU market is a niche market. Majority of their customers will benefit from faster general load time (SSD), lighter machine with longer battery life, rather. It's a different target audience.

 

[fertilized-egg]

Dear Tim Cook: Why are you allowing your companies fortunes to be dictated by waiting on Intel? Why don't you take some of that 100 billion that your company has in cash and buy AMD!

I haven't looked too close but one thing I keep seeing is AMD's x86 license supposedly expires if someone purchases AMD. If that is true, AMD is worthless to Apple. Apple already have been designing their own processors and expanding their chip design capacity further by poaching people away from companies like AMD. Buying a large organization like AMD would be very unlike Apple and AMD doesn't have too many appealing assets to Apple if the x86 license thing is true.

As I said earlier.

Apple COULD bring in a lot of GPU power to all their Macs. And code the OS and more and more Apps to really use this new power, but they won't as they refuse to fit high end GPU's in their desktop machines, as they keep making them thinner and they have always run hot, even with laptop graphics card in them, let alone proper full power ones.

They could do this tomorrow, but they won't

For most desktop OSX users I don't really see how high powered GPUs will really help them other than gaming. If I remember correctly Apple has always been pretty good at taking advantage of GPUs in their operating systems in both OSX and iOS and they went even further with the latest Mac Pro where they fit two GPUs by default.

 

[iSayuSay]

It may be a, somewhat, crippled computer, but it is still a computer. There is nothing in your list that a device is required to have to be a computer.

----------



That is exactly the point, exceptions.

Problem is, comparable smartphone and tablet NOW can do things that iOS cannot. And there's only one part to blame: Apple.

Android powered tablets are capable of supporting USB functionality, mouse, wired video output and they also have decent and growing apps collection. If you have all the right hardware and cables, it is a full fledged desktop computer. Can't have that with an iPad.
Nobody denies iPad for not being a computer, it is indeed a computer, but a lesser one.

 

[dec.]

It's probably a matter of profit, the lion's share comes from the iPhone and iPad. Mac sales are becoming a very small percentage of overall Apple sales. I don't think they are going to abandon the Macbooks, but I won't be surprised to see them become a bit more iOS device like, if that makes any sense.

The Mac sales aren't looking bad in general, what exactly makes you think that Apple would neglect them in the sense of simplyfing them or whatever else you thought you were thinking when you said "a bit more iOS device like" - especially after investing a lot of R&D and execution in the Mac Pro?

 

[UltimaKilo]

So what are we likely looking at for this year? A processor speed bump with slightly less power consumption? In terms of GPU, Apple will have to stick to the dated and underwhelming Intel GPU.

We now know that Broadwell will be significantly more efficient then Haswell, and the GPU will be impressive by integrated graphics standards. I can't imagine why folks wouldn't hold out a few months for a Broadwell machine.

I don't think such a minimal bump is going to bump hardware sales.

 

[mcarling]

'tis quite strange we've yet to see the Mac Mini make the jump to Haswell.

But as someone who recently got a late 2013 rMBP, I'm eagerly awaiting a Thunderbolt Display refresh. An iMac-like profile, reduced glare, Thunderbolt 2.0, and USB 3.0 would sure be delicious!

I would not be surprised to see a new Mac mini introduced in March.

I think Apple are clearing the stock on the existing Thunderbolt Display. When that is done, I expect Apple will release a 4K display.

Well, this is a timely article! I have been waiting to purchase a new, high end 15-inch retina Macbook Pro thinking there would be a minor upgrade next month. Like maybe a 755m graphics chip(over the current 750m) and a slight processor upgrade. Sounds like that is not going to happen. Guess I'll go ahead and buy one.

If Apple conclude that the Broadwell CPUs will not be available in time for the 2014 holiday season, then I think they will release a very minor spec bump during summer 2014, roughly similar to the February 2013 spec bump.

I'm waiting for a MacBook with 32GB RAM, cost be damned.

I think you'll be waiting a few years -- unless Apple release a 17" rMBP.

One way or the other I am hoping to see the MBPr updated. They seriously need to double their internal SSD to 256 GB for the low end model and double the RAM to 8 GB. At that point, I'm happy enough paying $1300. Not pleased with paying $1500 for brand-new.

If there will be a mid-2014 minor spec bump, then the new low-end 13" rMBP will probably be 8GB/128GB. Like it or not, there are still many users who do not need more than 128GB of storage. It's not worth a $100 increase in the entry level price point to make 256GB the base configuration. Also, if there will be a mid-2014 spec bump, look for a discontinuation of the cMBP, which will manifest even more pressure to keep the entry level price point low.

You prefer process over architecture when deciding when to upgrade? I'm the opposite myself. Unfortunately Intel has signficantly slowed down its tick-tock cycle, to more like 18 months from tick to tock rather than 12 as originally envisioned. Skylake is going to be very late.

I used to write circuit simulation software for Intel, so that the CPU designers could test their designs without waiting six weeks to test in silicon. I prefer to buy on the tick part of the cycle because any bugs in silicon are introduced only with the tock part of the cycle.

If Apple drops Intel what does that do to running Windows on Macs?

The ability to run MS Windows apps is becoming less important every year.

 

[Max(IT)]

Problem is, comparable smartphone and tablet NOW can do things that iOS cannot. And there's only one part to blame: Apple.

Android powered tablets are capable of supporting USB functionality, mouse, wired video output and they also have decent and growing apps collection. If you have all the right hardware and cables, it is a full fledged desktop computer. Can't have that with an iPad.
Nobody denies iPad for not being a computer, it is indeed a computer, but a lesser one.

If you say so, you never used an android tablet ...
It's just about spec list: they are capable of make coffee also but the reality is android apps for tablets are a joke.
Decent ? Gimme a break ....

 

[iSayuSay]

If you say so, you never used an android tablet ...
It's just about spec list: they are capable of make coffee also but the reality is android apps for tablets are a joke.
Decent ? Gimme a break ....

Oh yea. Many apps are now cross platform with a few exceptions. What makes a difference between Flappy Bird on iOS vs Android?

Oh and your iPad is capable of making you a breakfast?
It doesn't even have Bluetooth file transfer let alone video output support. HDMI to Lightning is a fake solution.

I'm all ear for iOS, I have iPhone and iPad that's why I'm here on this forum for so long. But I wouldn't deny iOS has its own limitation compared to other.

Fanboy much? Gimme a break

 

[randian]

I prefer to buy on the tick part of the cycle because any bugs in silicon are introduced only with the tock part of the cycle.

Are those bugs usually fixed on the next tick?

 

[Cyborg21]

Maybe Apple is working on less expensive MacBook Air with Apple A7 chip

 

[mr.bee]

There's more then enough to improve before a new marginal CPU bump.

From a product perspective: suppose I use ms office a lot. Ipad? No, screen estate too small and caring an external keyboard, pfff. MacBook Air? My eyes! That screen and bezel are no. Ok, a MBA has amazing battery life, but I'm NEVER more then 4 hours away from a charger, too niche for me. So my first option for a good laptop is a retina MacBook Pro? Bad product lines

All apple products can use more gpu power, non retina can use better screens and new redesigns for MacBook Air ( that bezel seems like a tribute to the toilet seat of the 90's).

There's more then enough to do this year!