Intel's Processor Roadmap

[SDAVE]

1337, how did you get that? Off their servers? Are you a hax0r?

Obviously it's a typo....Should've said v7 then CS3...

I use Cinema 4D, FCP, Combustion, DVDSP etc.
I do a lot of video batch editing.
I use 10-bit uncompressed codecs.
I also use it for gaming.
You are defending the X1900 XT because the Mac Pro is a workstation desktop?
For a workstation desktop, the Quadro FX 4500 is a good card not the X1900 XT.
At this time PC users have 18 video cards more powerful than the X1900 XT.

Your gaming says alot about what you NEED it for. Go build a PC with a 8800GTX card if you really want high end gaming. It shouldn't cost you much more than a souped up iMac 20".

Batch processing, FCP, and DVDSP as well as editing with 10bit unc codecs don't require a GPU. You don't need the Quadro for whatever you're doing. Trust me. Cinema4D and Combustion will enjoy the X1900.

Stop comparing PC's with Mac's. The gap is a little closer now, but Macs are still Macs. They were never going with the flow of PC's where a new graphics card upgrade is available every month or so.

 

[Wild-Bill]

Obviously it's a typo....Should've said v7 then CS3...



Your gaming says alot about what you NEED it for. Go build a PC with a 8800GTX card if you really want high end gaming. It shouldn't cost you much more than a souped up iMac 20".

Batch processing, FCP, and DVDSP as well as editing with 10bit unc codecs don't require a GPU. You don't need the Quadro for whatever you're doing. Trust me. Cinema4D and Combustion will enjoy the X1900.

Stop comparing PC's with Mac's. The gap is a little closer now, but Macs are still Macs. They were never going with the flow of PC's where a new graphics card upgrade is available every month or so.

Just because YOU are happy with the downclocked x1900xt in your Mac Pro, that doesn't mean prospective buyers should "settle" and buy it with a video card that was released in JANUARY 2006. If they want to wait, they should wait.

Because of BootCamp, many people would like to install XP or Vista on their machines for......you guessed it....GAMING. While some wouldn't mind having two machines, it makes much more fiscal and logistical sense to have both Mac and Windows on one machine.

We're going on almost 11 months now with no updates to the Mac Pro, save for the 8-core "speedbump". Apple has been lagging, and it's probably because of the iPhone. If someone doesn't want to spend upwards of $3,000.00+ for a machine with a video card that's nearly 18 months old, I don't blame them.

I certainly hope the CEO's of id and EA games told Steve that their games would look a LOT better with more capable graphics cards.

I may need a Mac but I'm not dumb enough to buy one with their inferior video cards.
I have patience, I can wait

. AMEN!

 

[cube]

Both Tigerton and Harpertown are quad-core.

Who is talking about cores? I'm saying Tigerton is multi-socket whicle Harpertown only supports dual-socket.

 

[Topper]

Your gaming says alot about what you NEED it for. Go build a PC with a 8800GTX card if you really want high end gaming.

I've never been a PC person, I never will be.

Stop comparing PC's with Mac's. The gap is a little closer now, but Macs are still Macs. They were never going with the flow of PC's where a new graphics card upgrade is available every month or so.

Just because you are stuck with that X1900 XT doesn't mean I have to be.
Video cards is the one place that Apple truly sucks and I get very angry about it.
Do you know that your X1900 XT is under-clocked?
The Mac X1900 XT has almost 5 GB/s less memory bandwidth than the PC X1900 XT.
ATI explains it like this: The reasoning behind this disparity has to do with basic supply and demand. The demand for Mac video cards is lower than their PC counterparts, so ATI runs them at lower clock speeds to maintain their desired profit per card regardless of whether they are selling to Mac or PC markets.
But your X1900 XT works for you so you are happy.
Remember me when the new Mac Pro comes out.
I am not going to settle for less.

I apologize to Wild-Bill.
I see he said almost exactly what I am saying.

 

[Trekkie]

Why do they even bother to bring out Tigerton?

It's called Virtualization, DB Servers, and SAP.

Same reason the Xeon 7100 exists, and the Xeon 7000, and the Xeon MP.

physical memory up to 1.0TB in size, up to 32 sockets of processors, and butt loads of I/O.

 

[Trekkie]

You are saying that Harpertown is due this year but Seaburg is coming out next year?
But we have to wait for Seaburg?

yes.

Harpertown right now is socket replace for clovertown/woodcrest according to the early info. It'll plug right into the motherboard in the mac pro, xserver, dell 1U/2U, HP 1U/2U, etc.

That roadmap I referenced had Seaburg as a northbridge and Stoakley as a server platform showing up in 1Q08.

Still gives plenty of time to announce something at MWSF, or after.

 

[SDAVE]

Just because YOU are happy with the downclocked x1900xt in your Mac Pro, that doesn't mean prospective buyers should "settle" and buy it with a video card that was released in JANUARY 2006. If they want to wait, they should wait.

Because of BootCamp, many people would like to install XP or Vista on their machines for......you guessed it....GAMING. While some wouldn't mind having two machines, it makes much more fiscal and logistical sense to have both Mac and Windows on one machine.

We're going on almost 11 months now with no updates to the Mac Pro, save for the 8-core "speedbump". Apple has been lagging, and it's probably because of the iPhone. If someone doesn't want to spend upwards of $3,000.00+ for a machine with a video card that's nearly 18 months old, I don't blame them.

I certainly hope the CEO's of id and EA games told Steve that their games would look a LOT better with more capable graphics cards.

. AMEN!

I dont think you understand what I'm getting at here.

If you're comparing PC's to Macs, you're better off comparing an HP Workstation for example with the Mac Pro...and you will NEVER find an HP workstation that has a "gaming" card in it...not that the X1900 is any better than any gaming card, but you get my point...your argument would hold better if you're comparing an iMac with lets say a Dell XPS system or something.

I've never been a PC person, I never will be.


Just because you are stuck with that X1900 XT doesn't mean I have to be.
Video cards is the one place that Apple truly sucks and I get very angry about it.
Do you know that your X1900 XT is under-clocked?
The Mac X1900 XT has almost 5 GB/s less memory bandwidth than the PC X1900 XT.
ATI explains it like this: The reasoning behind this disparity has to do with basic supply and demand. The demand for Mac video cards is lower than their PC counterparts, so ATI runs them at lower clock speeds to maintain their desired profit per card regardless of whether they are selling to Mac or PC markets.
But your X1900 XT works for you so you are happy.
Remember me when the new Mac Pro comes out.
I am not going to settle for less.

I apologize to Wild-Bill.
I see he said almost exactly what I am saying.

Just because YOU are probably the only one complaining about the not-so recent X1900 on the Mac Pro (WORKSTATION CLASS) computer, it means that Apple must upgrade everything just for YOU? The Mac Pros are used in professional environments, not gaming...just like the HP workstations on the PC side. I think you explained all when ATI told you that it's about supply and demand. By the way, the Mac Pro uses SLOW DDR2 RAM compared to desktop gaming machines on the PC side, where it's already hitting the DDR2 PC8000.

Sorry, but I'm not going to remember you if a new Mac comes out. I don't really care, the fastest machine on the planet (minus the video card) is enough for me. I don't use it for gaming, I have a PC at home just for that. Either way, if ever (IF) Apple brings the 8800GTX (Very expensive atm) to the Mac Pro, I will probably buy it and someone out there will have a BIOS update for it that will make it work with the Mac Pro....and by that time the price on this card should drop by 40%.

Macs have never been as fast as PCs, and it just recently started to change because of their move to Intel CPU's, and now they can compete with PCs...but obviously in the graphics card and gaming department, PC's still kick Macs ass. And that's not going to change anytime soon. This is not Apples territory. No hardcore (Small market) PC gamer is going to buy a Mac to play games on. They are comfortable with PCs.

 

[flappo]

Just because YOU are happy with the downclocked x1900xt in your Mac Pro, that doesn't mean prospective buyers should "settle" and buy it with a video card that was released in JANUARY 2006. If they want to wait, they should wait.

Because of BootCamp, many people would like to install XP or Vista on their machines for......you guessed it....GAMING. While some wouldn't mind having two machines, it makes much more fiscal and logistical sense to have both Mac and Windows on one machine.

We're going on almost 11 months now with no updates to the Mac Pro, save for the 8-core "speedbump". Apple has been lagging, and it's probably because of the iPhone. If someone doesn't want to spend upwards of $3,000.00+ for a machine with a video card that's nearly 18 months old, I don't blame them.

I certainly hope the CEO's of id and EA games told Steve that their games would look a LOT better with more capable graphics cards.

. AMEN!

couldn't agree more !!

just wish they'd get this iphone thing out of the way and get back to making macs !!!

 

[Topper]

Just because YOU are probably the only one complaining about the not-so recent X1900 on the Mac Pro (WORKSTATION CLASS) computer, it means that Apple must upgrade everything just for YOU?

Looking at the posts below, it doesn't look to me like I am in a minority.
Unless it is a vocal minority.

I don't really care, the fastest machine on the planet (minus the video card) is enough for me. I don't use it for gaming, I have a PC at home just for that.

A PC? That's absolutely nauseating.

Enjoy your PC and your X1900 XT.

 

[SDAVE]

You have some issues....mentally, I suppose. Hop off the bandwagon, kid.

PC's have their ups and Macs have their ups. Both have their downs.

You're an idiot if you don't consider both in your environment. If you're only browsing sites I guess you're fine with only one computer....and once again, stop comparing workstation class computers with home/desktop machines. They're totally different.

 

[Wild-Bill]

I dont think you understand what I'm getting at here.

If you're comparing PC's to Macs, you're better off comparing an HP Workstation for example with the Mac Pro...and you will NEVER find an HP workstation that has a "gaming" card in it...not that the X1900 is any better than any gaming card, but you get my point...your argument would hold better if you're comparing an iMac with lets say a Dell XPS system or something.

I am not comparing PC's to Macs. I am commenting on the piss-poor graphics options in the Mac Pro, namely the 18 month old X1900XT, and the fact that there have been no significant updates to the Mac Pro in 11 months, besides the 8-core option.

If Apple wants to appeal to gamers (which I think they were when they added the x1900xt as an option, and when Steve Jobs brought id and EA to WWDC 07), they need to ramp up their update cycle. Hell, ATi doesn't even MAKE the x1900 anymore. They contracted Foxconn to spit them out. And it's not like they're doing it regularly either. Notice on the BTO page that the "x1900xt may delay your ship date". Why? Because Apple waits for enough orders to go into queue so they can order a large quantity of x1900 cards to be built.

Stop defending the old technology. And stop trying to convince people they need to have both a PC and a Mac Pro in their house. Maybe if you read more posts in the Mac Pro forum you'd see that Topper and I aren't the only ones who think the x1900 sucks and needs to go.

 

[jeremyrader]

My info:

- For the Intel Centrino Pro processor technology ("mobile" platforms), there will be a Santa Rosa platform refresh in the 1st half of 2008. This will include the new Penryn (dual core) processor built on 45nm, and will keep the same 965 Express chipset. The release date depends on how fast the new 45nm factories ramp up. The working units right now are coming from R&D sites which are not capable of full-scale production.
- Also for Centrino, the replacement for Santa Rosa platform (Montevina) will be released 2nd half of 2008. This will keep the Penryn, but with a 6MB L2 cache vs. the current 4MB. The chipset will change to codename Cantiga.

- Intel's Ultra Mobile Processor Technology will be updated 1H'08 with a new Silverthorne processor (45nm) and the Poulsbo chipset.

- On the DP server side (currently Bensley platform with Clovertown processor), Q4'07 will see a quad-core Harpertown (45nm) with the same E5000P chipset (same Bensley platform), followed Q1'08 by a dual-core Wolfdale (45nm), also on the same Bensley platform (and chipset). The same processor will be paired with the Seaburg chipset for the DP Workstation "Stoakley" platform.
- The next DP server platform is Cranberry Lake, which will use the same Harpertown and Wolfdale processors, but the chipset moves to E5100 (San Clemente). Also slated for the "Stoakley" platform (Seaburg chipset).

- The Yorkfield (45nm) quad-core processor is slated for the UP server platform "Garlow" in Q1'08 and the business/consumer platform "Boulder Creek in 2H'07.
- The Tigerton (65nm) processor in dual- and quad-core flavors is due Q3'07, paired with the 7300 chipset for the MP server platform "Caneland".
- The Dunnington (45nm) hex-core processor is due 2H'08, also for the Caneland platform.

Confused yet?

 

[flappo]

hex core ? you mean it's going 6 core per chip !!??

wow

 

[Topper]

You have some issues....mentally, I suppose. Hop off the bandwagon, kid.
PC's have their ups and Macs have their ups. Both have their downs.
You're an idiot if you don't consider both in your environment. If you're only browsing sites I guess you're fine with only one computer....and once again, stop comparing workstation class computers with home/desktop machines. They're totally different.

See, now there's a solution I never thought about...buy a Mac Pro with an inferior video card
and at the time buy a PC with a powerful video card.
Man, the best of both worlds.
I am such an idiot for not having thought of that myself.
Hallelujah, I've seen the light, I can settle for less just like you did.

 

[SDAVE]

Whatever...wait until a good graphics card (I'm guessing an 8600GT) comes for the Mac Pro..and by then, PC's will have the 8900GTX verions available and you will be whining again and again.

It's an endless cycle, so have fun. I'll be designing on a high end Mac Pro right now while you will be waiting for Apple to release a better graphics card.

 

[Wild-Bill]

I'll be designing on a high end Mac Pro right now while you will be waiting for Apple to release a better graphics card.

I'll be waiting too. As will many, many others.

 

[SDAVE]

Got any real world statistics? From my experience, most people that use Mac towers use it professionally and rarely care about graphic cards...that's why Apple provides the Quadro if you need it.

 

[Topper]

Whatever...wait until a good graphics card (I'm guessing an 8600GT) comes for the Mac Pro..and by then, PC's will have the 8900GTX verions available and you will be whining again and again.

8600GT? Now you've really got me depressed. That card is worse than yours.
I'll be very satisfied with a card that has a memory bandwidth of 80 GB/s or more.

It's an endless cycle, so have fun. I'll be designing on a high end Mac Pro right now while you will be waiting for Apple to release a better graphics card.

I won't be idle. I'll be prodding along with my G5 and it's X800 XT card.

From my experience, most people that use Mac towers use it professionally and rarely care about graphic cards.

It is obvious from these discussions that you don't care about your video card.

 

[suneohair]

Wow this thread went downhill.

But really, why do some of you care so much that some of us choose to wait. I am waiting. I know you all want to assume this endless cycle, but come on lets be real. The Mac Pro has the same cards it debuted with, nearly a year ago.

There were people waiting for the MBP to be updated and it was. Should we not expect the same thing? DO you want us to just have the 7300 forever? I will pass. I can wait and so I choose to. Do you really think it hurts us when you say "I am using one right now! Haha?" because guess what, I will be using a much better Mac Pro in a few months. haha.

SDAVE. I am waiting.

 

[tribe3]

At this time PC users have 18 video cards more powerful than the X1900 XT.

Now that you say this, I'm wondering... why doesn't someone make firmwares (for profit) to flash those latest and greatest video cards so they will work on the Mac Pro?

If they can flash the PC x1900 I bet they can flash any other card too.

 

[Umbongo]

Wow this thread went downhill.

But really, why do some of you care so much that some of us choose to wait. I am waiting. I know you all want to assume this endless cycle, but come on lets be real. The Mac Pro has the same cards it debuted with, nearly a year ago.

There were people waiting for the MBP to be updated and it was. Should we not expect the same thing? DO you want us to just have the 7300 forever? I will pass. I can wait and so I choose to. Do you really think it hurts us when you say "I am using one right now! Haha?" because guess what, I will be using a much better Mac Pro in a few months. haha.

To be blunt I think the attitude you describe is there because people are fed up of what seems like every Mac Pro thread being dragged into people complaining about how awful Apple are due to the lack of the latest GPU options.

 

[tribe3]

Wow this thread went downhill.

I can wait and so I choose to. Do you really think it hurts us when you say "I am using one right now! Haha?" because guess what, I will be using a much better Mac Pro in a few months. haha.

SDAVE. I am waiting.

You know... the world is not going to stop the day you finally buy your machine. You can wait all the time you want but once you buy you're the one that's stuck. Whatever panasexual rotoplucker triple mega-core you get, it's gonna be old in 6 months.

 

[suneohair]

To be blunt I think the attitude you describe is there because people are fed up of what seems like every Mac Pro thread being dragged into people complaining about how awful Apple are due to the lack of the latest GPU options.

I disagree. The topics get dragged that way because some people like to come in and say "Hey stupid, just buy it, you don't need anything better."

Most of these thread exist to discuss what may happen with the Mac Pro. Regardless, I think everyone needs to chill. If you want to buy, buy. If you want to wait, wait.

You know... the world is not going to stop the day you finally buy your machine. You can wait all the time you want but once you buy you're the one that's stuck. Whatever panasexual rotoplucker triple mega-core you get, it's gonna be old in 6 months.

No it isn't, and I don't expect it to nor did I say it would. However, I don't understand why some of you take issue with me waiting and not buying a year old computer. I think it is foolish to buy today. Sure there will always be updates. But waiting for the next best thing doesn't mean I am going to wait forever. That is a ridiculous argument, and one people here seem to default to.

I will not always be waiting. I will wait until feel something is worth buying. I am confident that if the next Mac Pro update is anything like the Macbook Pro update I will be buying. How many orders do you think flooded in from those waiting for the MBP update? Tons I am sure.

If you have issues with some of us waiting. Oh well. Keep it to yourself. And instead of posting here why don't you go use the MP.

 

[Topper]

Now that you say this, I'm wondering... why doesn't someone make firmwares (for profit) to flash those latest and greatest video cards so they will work on the Mac Pro?

If they can flash the PC x1900 I bet they can flash any other card too.

You are right. You definitely have a firmware problem when flashing a PC card.
And you also have a driver problem.
PC cards are not compatible with Mac's EFI firmware.
So far I don't know of anyone who has overcome this problem.
High-end PC cards are expensive. If the flashing project fails, you've got a lot of money going down the drain.
I looked into it for a while but I gave up hope.
But maybe you can Google it and find an answer.

 

[funaifdd]

8600GT? Now you've really got me depressed. That card is worse than yours.
I'll be very satisfied with a card that has a memory bandwidth of 80 GB/s or more.

I won't be idle. I'll be prodding along with my G5 and it's X800 XT card.

It is obvious from these discussions that you don't care about your video card.

I think it's fairly obvious that he doesn't care about his graphics card, and why should he? SDAVE is correct, the X1900 is a great card for the Mac Pro. Leaving aside your obsession with bandwidth or frame rates, can you explain what you need a better card for on the Mac side of things? I understand you have issues on the PC side where you want to play the latest and greatest games at the highest frame rates but can you give some examples of Mac (professional) applications that are struggling with this card at the minute (or the 4500)?

Yes, it would be nice to have a more recent card in the machine as an option but not at the expense of increasing the noise envelope just to squeeze 5 more fps out of some game that will be out of date in 6 months

Not wishing to burst anyone's bubble here but the Mac Pro is not, repeat not, designed for gamers. By all means complain about the iMac not having an up to date graphics options but the Mac Pro is designed for creative professional and I can assure you most of them don't care about 1900, 8600, 8800 or whatever, they just want to use a fantastic piece of hardware to enable them to complete their contacts in the quickest possible timeframes.

Seriously, if you want to play games then buy a machine that is dedicated to that area, e.g: XBox 360, Wii or PlayStation 3. I own the latter two as I make it a point not to mix business with pleasure.