I see in my crystal ball... apple releases updates so that we can use pc video cards. I see this coming. Its the future.
That will be $1.50.
That will be $1.50.
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Intel's Processor Roadmap
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Ok. Some people would be fine with a 32MB PCI graphics card. Does that mean we shouldnt want something newer? I am not saying these cards suck. They are great, however I know that better things are available.
I suppose the MBP should still be using the x1600 since that is enough for most people right?
And this notion that you shouldn't game on a Mac. Ok. You shouldn't buy a Mac to game, at least a Mac Pro. However some people like to play games to cool off after work. I am not a fan of PC games but I may try some out sometimes. Whats wrong with wanting a card that run new games. Sure it will be outdated in a year. But the Mac Pro you buy today will be 2+ years out of date by then.
I am a creative professional, but I tell you what. I care about my money and I care about my purchases. Just because you are a creative professional doesn't mean you shouldn't make decision that is smart.
Buying a Mac Pro today, if you don't need it and want longevity, is foolish. There are new cpus, new graphics cards, etc etc.
Get off your horse. The Mac Pro is outdated. End of story. If you don't want updates, buy it and leave us alone. I am not trying to talk you out of it so don't bash me for making an informed decision.
The mac pro should be using a Geforce 8800 GTX card. The mac pro is not outdated. Just the video card. Lets get that straight. Jeez.
Ok. Some people would be fine with a 32MB PCI graphics card. Does that mean we shouldnt want something newer? I am not saying these cards suck. They are great, however I know that better things are available.
I suppose the MBP should still be using the x1600 since that is enough for most people right?
And this notion that you shouldn't game on a Mac. Ok. You shouldn't buy a Mac to game, at least a Mac Pro. However some people like to play games to cool off after work. I am not a fan of PC games but I may try some out sometimes. Whats wrong with wanting a card that run new games. Sure it will be outdated in a year. But the Mac Pro you buy today will be 2+ years out of date by then.
I am a creative professional, but I tell you what. I care about my money and I care about my purchases. Just because you are a creative professional doesn't mean you shouldn't make decision that is smart.
Buying a Mac Pro today, if you don't need it and want longevity, is foolish. There are new cpus, new graphics cards, etc etc.
Get off your horse. The Mac Pro is outdated. End of story. If you don't want updates, buy it and leave us alone. I am not trying to talk you out of it so don't bash me for making an informed decision.
I'm not bashing you, don't take it so personally. I care about my money as much as the next person, maybe more.
Of course there are new CPU's, new graphic cards coming along, there always will be, but aside from the graphics card issue what exactly is the problem with the Mac Pro?
Forget upcoming CPU release, right here and now, what could you change in the Mac Pro to make it any quicker with regards to CPU?
Personally I would make 2GB and a 500GB HDD the "default" options. This could easily be offset by the dropping CPU prices, I think you could even squeeze a higher spec graphics card in the for the same price.
All I am saying the the current graphics card options should not hinder someone who is looking a world class workstation from purchasing the Mac Pro. Spec it up against similar offerings from either Dell or HP and it is still amazing value for money, even one year on.
To be honest, I'm glad that hardware offerings stay the same for such extends periods of time with Apple. The PC situation is just ridiculous with ever changing specifications, leading to the cause of most of the instability in the Windows OS - poorly written and untested hardware drivers. I'm a Windows developer, a Microsoft Certified Solutions Developer in .NET with more years experience than I care to remember and I develop Windows applications on a Mac because I love the hardware, the stability and the user community. I lead a team of 20 developers and 16 of them have Mac's at home - that should tell you how highly we value the environment.
For myself I'm in the market for a Mac Pro. I was going to order one last week but I want 8GB of memory (2GB x 4) but I can't get the memory from Crucial as they never seem to have it in stock and I refuse to pay the Apple price (3 times). So I'm not ordering the machine until I can get the memory. Who knows, maybe an update will come along whilst I wait but either way the graphics card won't be any issue for me.
Good luck to everyone who is waiting for that ideal update, I hope they system you desire comes along sooner than you think
The 8800GTX is about $550 and it's freakishly fast...
I seem to be repeating myself, but once again Mac Pro is NOT a gaming machine. It uses a server motherboard from Intel and ECC RAM for servers (which is slow compared to the fastest DDR2 available on the market).
Most people who want crazy graphic cards are gamers....like someone else said, get a dedicated machine just for that...and why the hell would anyone plunk down $5,000 for a Mac Pro if you're going to use it for games? You can build a high end PC for much cheaper...or just get a PS3/XBox360 and 1080p LCD. It will cost you much cheaper.
I seem to be repeating myself, but once again Mac Pro is NOT a gaming machine. It uses a server motherboard from Intel and ECC RAM for servers (which is slow compared to the fastest DDR2 available on the market).
Most people who want crazy graphic cards are gamers....like someone else said, get a dedicated machine just for that...and why the hell would anyone plunk down $5,000 for a Mac Pro if you're going to use it for games? You can build a high end PC for much cheaper...or just get a PS3/XBox360 and 1080p LCD. It will cost you much cheaper.
Again, it looks like I have to repeat myself for you. With the availability of BOOTCAMP you can have your high end workstation and simply reboot to play games in the off-time, not to mention keeping your electricity bill lower, and having less clutter in your home, AND saving money.
You are NOT going to convince me, suneohair, Topper, MultiMedia, or the countless others to buy a gaming rig or an XBOX just because that's what you do.
Guess what. I HAVE a PC. A home-built, water-cooled screamer. I also have a 12" Powerbook. Once I buy the Mac Pro (with UPDATED GRAPHICS) I am selling off my PC, either as a whole or piece by piece, save for the hard drives which will occupy my Mac Pro. I will set up XP sp2 with BootCamp. I will access my 2d applications through Parallels. I will access my games through BootCamp. Why would I want to have two machines running when I can do it with just ONE?
SDAVE, all you are really doing here is trying to justify your purchase to us, and pretend that Apple does not have a horrible update cycle, which should not exist now due to the switch to Intel.
I'm not buying a Mac Pro "for games". I'm buying it for music production and amateur video editing. I don't need a second machine for "gaming" when I can do it on the Mac Pro, once Apple offers better video card options.
I'm not bashing you, don't take it so personally. I care about my money as much as the next person, maybe more.
Of course there are new CPU's, new graphic cards coming along, there always will be, but aside from the graphics card issue what exactly is the problem with the Mac Pro?
Forget upcoming CPU release, right here and now, what could you change in the Mac Pro to make it any quicker with regards to CPU?
Personally I would make 2GB and a 500GB HDD the "default" options. This could easily be offset by the dropping CPU prices, I think you could even squeeze a higher spec graphics card in the for the same price.
All I am saying the the current graphics card options should not hinder someone who is looking a world class workstation from purchasing the Mac Pro. Spec it up against similar offerings from either Dell or HP and it is still amazing value for money, even one year on.
To be honest, I'm glad that hardware offerings stay the same for such extends periods of time with Apple. The PC situation is just ridiculous with ever changing specifications, leading to the cause of most of the instability in the Windows OS - poorly written and untested hardware drivers. I'm a Windows developer, a Microsoft Certified Solutions Developer in .NET with more years experience than I care to remember and I develop Windows applications on a Mac because I love the hardware, the stability and the user community. I lead a team of 20 developers and 16 of them have Mac's at home - that should tell you how highly we value the environment.
For myself I'm in the market for a Mac Pro. I was going to order one last week but I want 8GB of memory (2GB x 4) but I can't get the memory from Crucial as they never seem to have it in stock and I refuse to pay the Apple price (3 times). So I'm not ordering the machine until I can get the memory. Who knows, maybe an update will come along whilst I wait but either way the graphics card won't be any issue for me.
Good luck to everyone who is waiting for that ideal update, I hope they system you desire comes along sooner than you think
Oh well lets see. The CPUs are taking a huge dip in price next month. Which could mean:
3.0Ghz in the base model
or
Octo cores all around
Price drops signal shift in the line. The Macbook was finally taken up a notch because prices aloud for it. The Penryn stuff is coming when? I don't know. If it comes in the next update (doubt it), cool. If not, cool too.
There are steps that can be taken in terms of CPU. Not just a new line, but with a refresh in specs to match the ridiculous price cuts coming. The line could go all octo. Do I need octo? No. Would I buy an octo at the current base model price? Hell yeah.
Heck, what if they drop the 2.66Ghz to the downgrade option. You just got the same machine today for way less. Anyhow, I am not exactly waiting for new processors. The current ones are great and fast. But they will be cheaper which means better options with the current CPUs for upgrades and stock models.
I like how things stick with Apple as well. It doesn't shift everyday, however that doesn't mean we shouldnt get updates. Or that I am not allowed to do what I want, which is wait. Why is it such a big deal to some of you? I WANT TO WAIT. YOU DONT HAVE TO. It doesn't need to be this difficult. Just leave it alone. Buy what you want. I can wait, so I choose to.
I don't want to buy a year old computer. Sorry. Maybe 4 or 5 months ago I would have. But not today. Not with Xeon price drops, not with RAM being dirt cheap, not with 8xxx GPUs rolling out (theres one in the MBP in case you didn't notice), not with HDs being dirt cheap.
I know that I can wait and get a better base machine. Does that mean the one today is crap? No. It means it is old and could be better. I am waiting for the next better. Get over it.
Thanks for labeling the whiners.
Would be nice if you people stopped making the people who own mac pros feel bad about it. Gettin old don't you think?
I agree.
Waiting for graphics card upgrades / base ram upgrades is completely ridiculous. Waiting for a motherboard is a different thing, but switchable components on a Mac Pro....come on. You have to be looking for an excuse to wait if you're citing those things.
I'm convinced your sole purpose around here is to thread crap.
Its not thread crapping when you guys tout this nonsense in EVERY thread. You guys have turned the whole mac pro board into "The mac pro sucks" board.
You make a good point. But have you taken a look at how much it costs to buy a video card from Apple? $400 for the X1900XT today. So I buy the Mac Pro, then drop $350-$500 on a new card, when I can get it for what, $200 as in upgrade in the newly updated Mac Pro.
I will pass.
Yet we want to buy one.
Waiting for lower prices/new technology that is literally months away is ridiculous?
Switchable components that will cost me more in the end is the way to go right? $2500 for base Mac Pro today. $400-500 for a new card when they release one... yeah thats right. Lets waste our money. You are more then welcome to.
I don't need an excuse to wait. I choose to wait. I don't understand why some of your are so dense that you don't get it. No one is telling you not to buy one. Buy away. I am making my own choice. One that doesn't concern you. Why is that some of you feel the need to come in here? I mean seriously.
I am done wasting my words on some of you. You are much too dense and much too considered with defending your purchase to be worth my time. Make it easy and see yourself out of the thread. There is obviously no place for you here. If not, I will just remove myself.
You gotta face that a Mac Pro isn't for everyone.
It's an expensive machine, and the base price is just the starting point. Once you add your RAM, HDDs, GPU, pro quality displays and a couple thousand dollars or more in software for your pro needs, you are easily touching 7K without even counting photo or HD video gear; Wide format printers, ink, specialty papers.
Even if you don't work on photo, than it's more money on publishing software, scanner, and storage.
The actual Mac Pro excels in every area. It's a work powerhouse that saves time, makes workflow a snap, and as a money making tool it can't be beaten.
Your constant weep of the MP only having 1gig of memory and not the latest gaming card is ridiculous and boring, and nobody that really needs a Mac Pro sees it the way you do.
Oh so now we are on the "Mac Pro isn't for everybody crap, huh?"
The base is the starting point. I have my road map planned out. I am going to add 4GB when I get mine. So lets see, if they bump up to 2GB, that gives me 6 instead of 5GB. If I get the base model, chances are I could get an octo core or possibly the 3Ghz chips. Considering prices are dropping.
What I don't get is this, why shouldnt the Mac Pro move forward? Should it be the same for the 10 years, just because it is upgradable? Even that is limited. No new video cards until Apple makes a move. The switch to Intel hasn't given us more Mac video card options.
How long should it go with no update? According to you as long as there are super expensive, outdated addons, it should just stay the same forever.
I don't constantly weep, I wait for the next update to see what happens. There are things I would like to see, because a better base model makes for a better computer after you add things on. But I am sure you disagaree, and the Mac Pro should stay the same for the next 10 years.
I think there are a numebr of people here who think the same thing. It has nothing to do with not being able to afford it. And everything to do with making a smart informed decision. If I needed it right now, yeah I would probably buy. But I don't so I choose to wait. If you don't like it, oh well.
Quit weeping about my personal decision. You don't add a damn thing to the discussion.
The base is the starting point. I have my road map planned out. I am going to add 4GB when I get mine. So lets see, if they bump up to 2GB, that gives me 6 instead of 5GB. If I get the base model, chances are I could get an octo core or possibly the 3Ghz chips. Considering prices are dropping.
What I don't get is this, why shouldnt the Mac Pro move forward? Should it be the same for the 10 years, just because it is upgradable? Even that is limited. No new video cards until Apple makes a move. The switch to Intel hasn't given us more Mac video card options.
How long should it go with no update? According to you as long as there are super expensive, outdated addons, it should just stay the same forever.
I don't constantly weep, I wait for the next update to see what happens. There are things I would like to see, because a better base model makes for a better computer after you add things on. But I am sure you disagaree, and the Mac Pro should stay the same for the next 10 years.
I think there are a numebr of people here who think the same thing. It has nothing to do with not being able to afford it. And everything to do with making a smart informed decision. If I needed it right now, yeah I would probably buy. But I don't so I choose to wait. If you don't like it, oh well.
Quit weeping about my personal decision. You don't add a damn thing to the discussion.
suneohair do you even think Apple reps read this forum? You've got to be kidding me. They don't make the Mac Pro's for the minority such as yourself, they make it for the pro's who are mainly in motion graphics and editing...this is why FCP is this huge and has such a following, it's because of the reliable Apple machines. If a high end application like Maya/3dMax/Cinema4d work flawlessly with the X1900, why would anyone who uses these computers professionally complain about not having a better graphics card? Let me tell you one thing, most Mac users are clueless to what graphics card it has, trust me, I used to work with alot of them. They don't even know what PCI Express means.
There are about 3 of you that keeps saying the same crap over and over and making people feel "bad" about their recent Mac Pro purchase. This is a true form of geekery and I always laugh when people like you try to justify the reasons for not buying a machine such as the Mac Pro and waiting for the "next best thing". Jeez man, quit weeping. I've held myself for a few years trying to find a perfect spot for an upgrade, and I just did recently, plopped down around $6k (without a Cinema Display) for work. Whoever is willing to drop down this much money for gaming is an imbecile...unless you have money to burn, and I bet none of us here except the enthusiasts have that.
You're better off dropping that much money on a Voodoo PC with Dual 8800GTX cards which will make your games fly and stay away from Mac Pro.
Go get an iMac and keep it quiet. There are pros like me making dough with the Mac Pro without even complaining, and there are hundreds and thousands of others who are doing the same. Focus on more important things. I bet you're just a hobbyist and don't do any pro work that you're required to do on a workstation class computer. That's like me buying an HP workstation and getting a Quadro card on it and using it for gaming. It's just stupid.
There are about 3 of you that keeps saying the same crap over and over and making people feel "bad" about their recent Mac Pro purchase. This is a true form of geekery and I always laugh when people like you try to justify the reasons for not buying a machine such as the Mac Pro and waiting for the "next best thing". Jeez man, quit weeping. I've held myself for a few years trying to find a perfect spot for an upgrade, and I just did recently, plopped down around $6k (without a Cinema Display) for work. Whoever is willing to drop down this much money for gaming is an imbecile...unless you have money to burn, and I bet none of us here except the enthusiasts have that.
You're better off dropping that much money on a Voodoo PC with Dual 8800GTX cards which will make your games fly and stay away from Mac Pro.
Go get an iMac and keep it quiet. There are pros like me making dough with the Mac Pro without even complaining, and there are hundreds and thousands of others who are doing the same. Focus on more important things. I bet you're just a hobbyist and don't do any pro work that you're required to do on a workstation class computer. That's like me buying an HP workstation and getting a Quadro card on it and using it for gaming. It's just stupid.
SDAVE, I partially agree with what you're saying, the MacPro platform being for graphical professionals. However, you're missing something.
I am some what of a gamer and an IT professional. I have a 3 year old PC and now ... which needs to be replaced. Now that Apple has switched to Intel, I have the ability to run both Windows and OS X on the same hardware ... which is great! Before I couldnt bother to get a Mac, so I could run OS X. Now I can switch with a simple reboot (or use parallels).
The specs of an iMac just dont cut it for me, not as a gamer, nor as an IT professional.
I don't need a quad core, but I would like to have a more recent graphicscard.
I am some what of a gamer and an IT professional. I have a 3 year old PC and now ... which needs to be replaced. Now that Apple has switched to Intel, I have the ability to run both Windows and OS X on the same hardware ... which is great! Before I couldnt bother to get a Mac, so I could run OS X. Now I can switch with a simple reboot (or use parallels).
The specs of an iMac just dont cut it for me, not as a gamer, nor as an IT professional.
I don't need a quad core, but I would like to have a more recent graphicscard.
Alright you win. I am a silly gamer. I don't deserve to be on the Mac platform. I am on Dells site right now configuring an XPS with a super graphics card. I mean, I don't need to make money with my computer. Since I understand the intricacies of the computer, I am not allowed to wait for a newly updated Mac. PCIe, you guys don't understand that which is why you have a Mac Pro!!! It makes sense now!
You guys even did me the favor of telling me what I am! A hobbyist! I don't do any professional work. Duh. Why didn't I know that.
Instead of spending $4k, I will just spend $4k and get a great Dell! Wow, I am so glad you guys are here. I mean, if you weren't I would have bought a super expensive Mac that only you guys can really afford. I am so silly. Thanks Guys!!!
Here are the specs for my new Dell and a picture!!!
Core 2 Duo Q6600
768MB 8800GTX
2GB DDR2 OC'ed to 1066!!!
2x320GB HD in RAID 0
Dual DVD Burners
24" LCD
$3949!!! OMG THIS WILL OWN A MAC PRO!!! THANKS GUYS!
You guys even did me the favor of telling me what I am! A hobbyist! I don't do any professional work. Duh. Why didn't I know that.
Instead of spending $4k, I will just spend $4k and get a great Dell! Wow, I am so glad you guys are here. I mean, if you weren't I would have bought a super expensive Mac that only you guys can really afford. I am so silly. Thanks Guys!!!
Here are the specs for my new Dell and a picture!!!
Core 2 Duo Q6600
768MB 8800GTX
2GB DDR2 OC'ed to 1066!!!
2x320GB HD in RAID 0
Dual DVD Burners
24" LCD
$3949!!! OMG THIS WILL OWN A MAC PRO!!! THANKS GUYS!
Attachments
Abom , I think that most PC graphic cards work on the PC side of a Mac Pro, so that wouldn't be a show-stopper if you game on bootcamp. The ati x1900 xt on the other hand might not be the last card out there but it still holds it's own. There is no game out there that the x1900 doesn't play at highest resolution with very decent fps rate, and the ver.2 doesn't overheat like the firdt ones.
Alright you win. I am a silly gamer. I dont deserve to be on the Mac platform. I am on Dells site right now configuring an XPS with a super graphics card. I mean, I don't need to make money with my computer.
Instead of spending $4k, I will just spend $4k and get a great Dell! Wow, I am so glad you guys are here. I mean, if you weren't I would have bought a super expensive Mac that only you guys can really afford. I am so silly. Thanks Guys!!!
Here are the specs for my new Dell and a picture!!!
Core 2 Duo Q6600
768MB 8800GTX
2GB DDR2 OC'ed to 1066!!!
2x320GB HD in RAID 0
Dual DVD Burners
24" LCD
$3949!!! OMG THIS WILL OWN A MAC PRO!!! THANKS GUYS!
I like the red neons. Maybe instead of a chime at start up it has some kind of BWUAHAHAHAHW
YEAH thats a great idea!! Maybe i will just have to haxor my Dell to make it do that. I'll be playing games in no time. I just placed my order guys. I will report back and let you know how its going.
Now... I just have to buy some games. Maybe I can sell off CS3 and my other design software to buy some...
Oh yeah, guess I won't be needing my DSLR anymore either...
I see in my crystal ball... apple releases updates so that we can use pc video cards. I see this coming. Its the future.
That will be $1.50.
Then third part would probably write the drivers? That might be messy =-D. I would trust Nvidia with this.. but maybe not ATI
I own a 2.66 intel mac pro with x1900xt 3gb ram. When I bought this machine about 5 months ago I went through the same agonizing that's taking place in this thread, which is why I got the X1900xt.
Now I don't game as much as I used to (working in the industry cured me largely) but it comes down to this; its knowing you have the ability to game that counts. There's vast comfort that comes from knowing you can fire up the newest game if you want to. The alternative is the sickening feeling of obsolescence and inadequacy that is oh so familiar to long time Apple owners.
This feeling started way back in 1985. The Apple II+ was the pinnicale of mac gamming. Not only was there Ultima I but, Wizardry and Castle Wolfenstein were also available. The only threat was the C64 with that pesky color display. But monochrome was the wave of the future and 8 bit sprites!
Then along came Peecee and all of a sudden all the development shifted.
This shift continued into the early 1990s up through the introduction of 3D graphics and the Voodoo1.
I recall slotting a voodoo2 8MB into a beige G3 to play Myth2 in all it's 3dfx glide rendered glory.
But the renaissance was short lived and Peecee reasserted itself and my G3 was soon collecting dust, overshadowed by a series of home build peecees which could and would run all the current games with minor video card updates every 6-12 months.
Move forward to the present. With the release of DirectX10 my X1900XT has become obsolete. No Shadowrun, no Crysis, no Alan Wake! No soup for me!
Steve Jobs again takes on his familiar role as the soup nazi, denying us all the gaming goodness of tomorrow. Closed are the doors to cinematic gaming!
The cold rationalizations of "wellllll it's only a workstation FOR WORK afterall" are stark comfort in the face of this new impotence. No longer is my Mac Pro the big d**k in the shower. Instead what comes to mind is a red faced george costanzai explaining to a bemused, retreating female that it's "the cold water that causes the shrinkage!!"
But all the rationalization in the world won't cure my Mac Pro's flacidity, only the silicon viagra of EFI-capable, DX10 8800GTX goodness will bring my Mac Pro back to fighting condition.
Now I don't game as much as I used to (working in the industry cured me largely) but it comes down to this; its knowing you have the ability to game that counts. There's vast comfort that comes from knowing you can fire up the newest game if you want to. The alternative is the sickening feeling of obsolescence and inadequacy that is oh so familiar to long time Apple owners.
This feeling started way back in 1985. The Apple II+ was the pinnicale of mac gamming. Not only was there Ultima I but, Wizardry and Castle Wolfenstein were also available. The only threat was the C64 with that pesky color display. But monochrome was the wave of the future and 8 bit sprites!
Then along came Peecee and all of a sudden all the development shifted.
This shift continued into the early 1990s up through the introduction of 3D graphics and the Voodoo1.
I recall slotting a voodoo2 8MB into a beige G3 to play Myth2 in all it's 3dfx glide rendered glory.
But the renaissance was short lived and Peecee reasserted itself and my G3 was soon collecting dust, overshadowed by a series of home build peecees which could and would run all the current games with minor video card updates every 6-12 months.
Move forward to the present. With the release of DirectX10 my X1900XT has become obsolete. No Shadowrun, no Crysis, no Alan Wake! No soup for me!
Steve Jobs again takes on his familiar role as the soup nazi, denying us all the gaming goodness of tomorrow. Closed are the doors to cinematic gaming!
The cold rationalizations of "wellllll it's only a workstation FOR WORK afterall" are stark comfort in the face of this new impotence. No longer is my Mac Pro the big d**k in the shower. Instead what comes to mind is a red faced george costanzai explaining to a bemused, retreating female that it's "the cold water that causes the shrinkage!!"
But all the rationalization in the world won't cure my Mac Pro's flacidity, only the silicon viagra of EFI-capable, DX10 8800GTX goodness will bring my Mac Pro back to fighting condition.