Intel's Sandy Bridge CPUs could be with us this year

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by acesam, Jul 14, 2010.

  1. acesam macrumors member

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    #1
    http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/14/intels-sandy-bridge-cpus-to-tape-out-ahead-of-schedule-could-b/

    Can't wait for the "Waiting for Sandybridge" threads!
     
  2. Blues003 macrumors 6502

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    #2
    If Sandybridge's graphics are as good as the NVIDIA 320m, could this mean we have i5 13'' Macbook Pro in the January 2011 update?

    Quote from a post on another topic (which I found incredibly useful):


    Originally Posted by weenerdog

    Yes the optical drive takes up a considerable portion of space inside the machine and considering how often one uses cd's or dvd's these days it would be a welcome compromise to lose it entirely in favor of an external optical drive and more space for dedicated graphics. The graphics issue is this: Apple cannot use Core 2 Duo next update because their production is being discontinued therefore Apple will have to us Core i5's, however Apple cannot use the current Nvidia integrated graphics due to licensing disagreements and all sorts of trivial disputes between Intel and Nvidia. Anyway long story short, they have 3 options:

    1. Use current Core i5 chips and settle for the intel graphics. This would be a considerable downgrade from the 320m so it is unlikely.

    2. Use current Core i5 chips and dedicated graphics card. Basically impossible unless the optical drive is removed as there simply isn't enough room. This option, however, would produce best graphics results.

    3. Maybe the Sandy Bridge core i5 chip will have Intel graphics that are equal to or better than the 320m in which case they will use that and there is no problem.
     
  3. iLog.Genius macrumors 601

    iLog.Genius

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    #3
    Might be released this year but it will be in Mac's next year at the earliest.
     
  4. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #4
    Oh please, when was apple the first to use a new chipset.

    They'll sit on the sidelines while others release desktops/laptops. Look how long it took for them to put out an arrandale based laptop.
     
  5. TMRaven macrumors 68020

    TMRaven

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    #5
    Apple gets exclusive access to intel's newest xeon chips from time to time for their mac pros, and most recently apple was very quick to jump on the lynnfield bandwagon for their high-end iMacs when intel announced those lineup of nehalems chips.

    So who knows.
     
  6. Blues003 macrumors 6502

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    #6
    And we should also take into account the Core 2 Duo are getting discontinued...
     
  7. saxon48 macrumors 6502a

    saxon48

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    #7
    As the 13" MBP still clings to it :(

    Hopefully Sandy Bridge will be a reality on all MBP models next year or whenever they may be released. We can only keep our fingers crossed...
     
  8. Hellhammer Moderator

    Hellhammer

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    #8
    I doubt Apple will get early access for SB in MBPs as MBPs sell like hot cakes and the issue could be availability plus that might cause too much anger among other manufacturers (Apple getting all the chips and other manufacturers licking their fingers and waiting for them). A release few weeks after the launch is what I would expect, of course depending on when the 2010 update happens (IF it even happens)

    Source please. I've read that SOME Core 2 CPUs are getting discontinued but haven't heard anything about all of them being discontinued.
     
  9. Pentad macrumors 6502a

    Pentad

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    #9
    Sadly, I don't think the Macintosh Computers are on Apple's priority list anymore... With the advent of the iPhone/iPad/iPods/apps/iADs there doesn't seem to be a rush to update their computer line.

    Lets look at recent history:

    -Length of time to get the i-core CPUs

    -The lack of hardware updates for many of the Macintosh computers

    -WWDC had lackluster support for the Macintosh line

    -10.7 information has been zero


    The crazy thing is, the Mac line keeps selling well which only feeds Apple's ability to delay updates to the line...


    I think if we want to be honest with ourselves, Apple has found a new way to make money and be dominant in areas where Microsoft (and others) are not. This allows them to succeed where the Macintosh could not. In the long run, I'm not sure they need the Macintosh as much as they used to.

    I'm not saying it will go away but in terms of R&D resources, the Mac is now competing (internally) with products that are bringing in much more revenue for Apple. In the end, that is going to have an effect.

    -P
     
  10. Hellhammer Moderator

    Hellhammer

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    #10
    Apple still sells about 3 million Macs each quarter, that's over 10 million Macs per year. Knowing the high profit Apple charges, they make a nice money per machine. For example, if Apple got 300$ per Mac, that would be nearly a billion $ per Q so around 4 billions per year. That's not a small income anymore. The number of sold Macs has been growing all the time so Apple is getting more money out of Macs. Sure iToys sell more but Macs are still huge income for Apple and I doubt they have any plans to weaken Macs, more likely the opposite.

    Just because couple updates are overdue doesn't mean that all products are getting the same fate.
     
  11. Deepshade macrumors regular

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    #11
    With newer technologies allowing faster graphics in laptops at the same time consuming less power, and the Mac Laptop range being a bigger seller than the MacPro, you don't have to do the maths to guess that Apple will focus on that cash cow before prioritizing the MacPro development.
     
  12. Hellhammer Moderator

    Hellhammer

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    #12
    When laptops get faster GPUs, desktops get even faster. No mobility part can ever fight against desktop parts because mobility parts are basically just underclocked desktop parts.

    Mac Pro isn't that popular but it makes bigger profit per unit. As long as it has its market, Apple will keep it. Mac Pro hasn't been the cash cow for years but it still makes enough $ to keep it alive. I would say Mac Pro needs a lot less engineering than a new iPhone does. Just some new parts and software support for that and you're done, the design can remain the same. The 2009 Mac Pro update was awesome, the next one can be even better
     
  13. Blues003 macrumors 6502

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    #13

    I read on that on Macrumors. However, since you've helped me so much in the past, I went to do some research, and here's what I found:


    According to Wikipedia, Macbook Pro 13'''s processores are P8600 and P8800, for the 2.4 and 2.66 GHz versions, respectively. You can check it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook_Pro (I found no such information on Apple.com)


    When I googled "Intel Core 2 Duo discontinued", I had a result dated 9 Jun 2010, linked to http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2010/2010060901_Intel_to_discontinue_Core_2_Mobile_processors.html

    As you can see there, both the P8600 and P8800 appear as if they are going to get discontinued on the third quarter of this year.

    Now, I could be wrong, since I'm not that knowledgeable on this area. There could be some detail missing me here.I don't know why the "Mobile" word is there, though I understand it could be there because we're talking about Laptops and not Desktops. (I doubt the word Mobile there would be referring to Mobile Phones; do they even have such processors?!)

    If this is true, though, it could be great news. If they discontinue a processor on Q3 of this year, how can Apple supply computers for 8 months (average refresh time) around 3 months after a component being discontinued? Right now, Sandybridge looks (to me, a mere forum-wanderer and not-at-all a tech-expert) like the most reasonable option to expect.

    Feel free to correct me, though! These are just my 2 cents!
     
  14. Hellhammer Moderator

    Hellhammer

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    #14
    Thanks for the link, I just haven't been able to find anything like that, only some talks about some Core 2 Quads being discontinued. The main reason I've been so doubtful has been because people have just said "Look at Wikipedia, there reads production: 2006-2010" in the past and not providing any actual proofs. It does indeed look like mobile C2Ds are being EOLed soon though that's a good thing. Sandy Bridge is out in Q1 so why on earth would Intel produce three different architectures? There are still plenty of C2Ds sitting in warehouses.

    I guess we'll find out during the next months. Intel's CEO said SB is ahead of the schedule so we may see them during 2010! :cool:
     
  15. Blues003 macrumors 6502

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    #15

    I guess we'll see Sandy Bridges by the end of 2010, since they're ahead of schedule. Just not too spread around. The real question is, will we see them on the Macbooks? :p I think they'll be out before 2011's Q1. (the Sandy Bridges, not the MBPs)

    Having said that, do you think those C2Ds in warehouses will be used by Apple? God, I hope not. Not to mention it'd be kind of risky, to supply 8 months of Macbook Pro 13''s (I hear it's their best-selling MBP, correct me if I'm wrong) based solely on warehoused processos. Do you have any data regarding that you could give us?
     
  16. Hellhammer Moderator

    Hellhammer

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    #16
    I really hope Apple stops bitching and uses the chips when they are released, not when they are in the middle of their life cycle.

    If Intel can provide a steady supply of Sandy Bridge in 2010, we could see an update with Sandy Bridge this year or early next year. If there is a non-Sandy Bridge update before it, we could still be looking at an early 2011 update as there isn't much for Apple to be used in next update (they have usually used the same GPUs for two generations and 320M&330M were just introduced so that would be a very minor CPU bump in higher-end), so I would actually bet, my money on Sandy Bridge being the next update, or at least hope that it's the next update :p

    P8600 (2.4GHz) is being EOLed in Q3 but P8700 (2.53GHz), P8800 (2.66GHz) and P9700 (2.8GHz) are not being EOLed before Q1 2011 so they could be used in the next 13" MBP update. Then in 2011, Apple could finally dump the old C2D and switch to Sandy Bridge. So, Apple doesn't have to use "warehouse CPUs", they can switch to SB when the CPUs they are using are being EOLed.
     
  17. Blues003 macrumors 6502

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    #17
    I doubt we'll see an update this year. The regular interval for updates on the Macbook Pro line is 8~9 months, which would mean a reasonable date for an update would be between January and February of 2011. That makes even less probable an update this year and then an early 2011 update.

    I'm kinda fearing for that same-GPU-in-two-generations rule. Keeping the 320/330M would mean no space for a processor other than a Core 2 Duo. At least, I understand that's the reason they didn't go with i3 or i5 already on the Macbook Pro 13''. Unless, of course, the fact SandyBridge is only 32nm (instead of 45nm), makes Apple able to put both in. I dunno, so I'm purely spectulating.


    Oh, you're saying they could use one of those higher C2D on the next update, and then on the OTHER one (keeping the same time-span, that'd mean end 2011), finally switch to Sandy Bridge? Meh, now that I think of it, that kind of makes sense (with the 320M/330M-lasting-2-years-thingie). It does make me sad too, though. I decided to save some money in order to buy a MBP (instead of an iPhone 4, partially due to its problems), and I was counting on the big processor. And yes, I do need that power: I was intending to emulate Playstation 2 games at full speed there. I doubt a C2D 2.53 GHz can achieve that. :\ Not to mention it'd be so much more future-proof to have a Sandy Bridge...
     
  18. Hellhammer Moderator

    Hellhammer

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    #18
    If Sandy Bridge is the next generation, the 13" will likely use its IGP so there is no need for a new GPU and 320M cannot be used with iX. 330M can be used with SB as well. Then late 2011 with new GPUs

    I meant they can do late 2010 update and use C2D in 13". After they have been EOLed, it's unlikely that Apple can keep using them for longer than a month or two so in early 2011, we will likely get rid of C2D.
     
  19. Blues003 macrumors 6502

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    #19
    I'm sorry, I didn't get this part, also because I have no idea what "IGP" means. Could you please rephrase that?



    Late 2010 AND early 2011? That's 2 updates in less than one year (the last one was in May, IIRC). We usually get one every 8~9 months, not one every 5~6... (and May isn't even "early" 2011).
     
  20. Hellhammer Moderator

    Hellhammer

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    #20
    IGP = Integrated Graphics Processor

    I meant there is no space for discrete GPU in 13" and the IGP in Sandy Bridge is powerful enough so we will likely have it as the GPU in 13" as 320M cannot be used with iX CPU, so 320M is dropped and succeed by Sandy Bridge IGP and the 15" and 17" will continue using 330M (or better one)

    It's possible but doubtful. If there is an update this year which does not bring Sandy Bridge, the Sandy Bridge update will likely be pushed to mid 2011. Looking at the past and it does look like there may not be late 2010 update as the last update was in April and January 2011 update would be logical as it would be 8-9 months without an update. Anyway, only time will show us...
     
  21. Blues003 macrumors 6502

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    #21
    Oh, right. Yes, I find that pretty plausible. In the case of the 13'', I believe we'll see Sandy Bridge only, while in the 15'' and 17'', the 330M will still be there as a dedicated one. My only doubt (regarding the 13'') is the two-year "tradition" you mentioned. Though I guess Apple really doesn't have many choices on the 13'':


    a) One option is to keep a C2D processor, albeit better than the current one (they'd use one that only gets discontinued later on, and not immedeatly like the current ones), and thus keep the 320M graphic card. Now that I think of it, this option isn't that unlikely. Not my favourite option at all, though.

    b) The second option is, they give up the optical drive, in order to get space. (which seems very unlikely to me)

    c) The third one (and my favourite, I'm praying for this one), is they give up on the 320M and use the Sandy Bridge (if, of course, the integrated graphics are at least as good as the 320M. I've read they're good but got no real reliable sources. Do you have anything of value on this matter?)
     
  22. Hellhammer Moderator

    Hellhammer

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    #22
    http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/01/intel-briefly-demos-next-gen-sandy-bridge-laptop-platform-at-com/

    Settings and FPS were unknown but it showed the capability of Intel IGP. 320M is integrated thus not very great compared to a mid level discrete GPU. The two generation thingy isn't that important as the CPU comes with the GPU, before it was issue because NVidia had to develop a new GPU for Apple. Something like this hasn't happened before so just ignore the two generation "rule".

    In the article you linked, it showed that pretty much all mobile C2Ds are being EOLed in Q1 2011 so I doubt Apple can use C2D for much longer than that without driving into availability issues.
     
  23. pulieb89 macrumors newbie

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    #23
    Hey, you two both seem to know what you are talking about.

    However I am someone who does not know what you are talking about and I have a question and would be greatful if you could answer.

    Since checking engadet this morning I have been trying to find out what I can about Sandy Bridge, as I am in the process of saving for my first MBP. It will be a couple of months yet untill I get all the money together, is it worth waiting abit long and paying a bit more for these Sandy Bridge chips? could you tell me simply what benifits they will bring like USB3.0 etc.

    Will I need the technology that Sandy Bridge brings in the future? and Is it worth me getting it next year instead of buying a current MBP and they being outdated next year etc?

    I dont really mind waiting and money wouldnt be an issue then?

    Help please

    Paul.
     
  24. Hellhammer Moderator

    Hellhammer

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    #24
    Sandy Bridge won't cost more than current CPUs do, so if you can, wait. You'll get more for the same buck. It will bring SATA 6Gb/s but USB 3.0 is unfortunately not included in the mainstream (LGA 1155) chipset.

    If you don't do anything CPU intensive, it's unlikely that you will notice much difference but most people just prefer having the newest and shiniest. You should ask that later on when you can buy it ASAP as then we will likely know more about Sandy Bridge and possibly about MBPs as well
     
  25. Blues003 macrumors 6502

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    #25

    I'm exactly in the same position as you. I'm saving for my first MBP, and still don't have enough to get it. I'll have the money for it more or less by the time the next update comes. I will buy the MBP then if it fills my "requirements" (explained later in this post).

    As for the Sandy Bridge technology, I'm not that into it, but from what I've read/seen/discussed, it seems pretty promising. Not only performance-wise (check the last link of Hellhamer's post), but also energy-consuming-wise. Benchmarks also give positive results. (I'd like to know more about this, but still haven't researched that deeply).

    Wheather you need the Sandy Bridge technology or not, that really depends on your needs. If all you're going to be doing is browsing web, listening to music, IM-ing, email-ing and doing some iWork/Office stuff, then I doubt you will need it. The reason I am interested in it, is because I'd like to do some CPU-intensive gaming (emulate Playstation 2 games which I have, on the laptop). It also goes with your desire to be future-proofed or not. The Intel Core 2 Duo is getting discontinued soon and as such, really is a product that's at the end of its life. The Sandy Bridge, however, is at its begginning. Who knows what might come after. So having it surely gives you more guarantees than the Core 2 Duo, when it comes to programs you might or might not want to run on your future MBP. It's up to you to, regarding these two points, decide wheather it's worth for you or not to wait and, possibly, spend more money, on the MBP that should be coming around January.

    I don't know if USB 3.0 is related to Sandy Bridge or not (as I said, I'm a mere reader/poster, I'm not a professional of this area). If it does, however, come with the next Macbook Pro, it'll make your USB devices work faster and more reliably. Not to mention it has backwards compatibility with 2.0, so it can't really go wrong.

    Personally, those are the two updates I'm looking more foward to: USB 3.0, and Processor power. If those two satisfy me, I'm totally getting a MBP 13''.


    EDIT: Regarding USB 3.0, I found some interesting links:

    http://www.slashgear.com/intel-sand...0-super-frugal-battery-life-possible-0176048/
    http://www.devicemag.com/2010/03/01...s-3-0-usb-3-0-support-and-great-battery-life/
    http://techztalk.com/techwebsite/03...idge-to-bring-usb-3-and-pci-express-3-support


    Hellhammer, does this contradict what you said about the mainstream Sandy Bridge not having 3.0?
     

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