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...I'm not arguing that what Apple is trying to accomplish here is a bad thing... it is all about *HOW* they did it.
People have been driving for a 100+ years and if you are among the populace that owns a car, chances are you’ve been observing your parents drive for many years, yet one still has to learn has to drive.

I’m okay with the control center now. Initially I didn’t like it but I got used to it. And use it often. The convenience factor is very high and I never turn off WiFi or Bluetooth anymore.
 
People have been driving for a 100+ years and if you are among the populace that owns a car, chances are you’ve been observing your parents drive for many years, yet one still has to learn has to drive.

I’m okay with the control center now. Initially I didn’t like it but I got used to it. And use it often. The convenience factor is very high and I never turn off WiFi or Bluetooth anymore.

Yea, I used to use it. Now I have to go into settings to turn things on/off like one would expect Control Center to be doing.
 
Oh, I’m okay with the way it functions.

Oh, well many are not okay with it, me included. Fake off button isn’t what I need or want. I want off to be off, period. So I as well as many many other people have to go into settings every time. People like you are the reason, sorry to say.
 
Oh, well many are not okay with it, me included. Fake off button isn’t what I need or want. I want off to be off, period. So I as well as many many other people have to go into settings every time. People like you are the reason, sorry to say.
What nonsense. Vote with your dollars if you are audacious enough to make a comment like that.

Thankfully people “like me” allow Apple to move ahead and create industry trends, while people “like you” hold Apple back.
 
Oh, well many are not okay with it, me included. Fake off button isn’t what I need or want. I want off to be off, period. So I as well as many many other people have to go into settings every time. People like you are the reason, sorry to say.
It's not a fake off button, it's a disconnect button.
 
What nonsense. Vote with your dollars if you are audacious enough to make a comment like that.

Thankfully people “like me” allow Apple to move ahead and create industry trends, while people “like you” hold Apple back.

Bah bah
[doublepost=1525627687][/doublepost]
It's not a fake off button, it's a disconnect button.

Yes forced on, and forced no way to turn it off other than in settings. Amazing how difficult such a simple request is to understand for some people. Having a quick OFF button like we’ve had for years, is NOT TOO MUCH TO ASK. We have “3D touch”, should be pretty easy to fix, but people wanna quieten down what’s really happening here: forced all ON all the time ON supervision and tracking. Why else would they not have put a toggle for location awareness there ages ago like we had for years with jail broken phones.
 
We have “3D touch”, should be pretty easy to fix, but people wanna quieten down what’s really happening here: forced all ON all the time ON supervision and tracking. Why else would they not have put a toggle for location awareness there ages ago like we had for years with jail broken phones.

What's "really happening" is that Apple Support got tired of explaining to people that when they turn off Wi-Fi and Bluetooth, their Apple Watch won't work properly any more.
 
Bah bah
[doublepost=1525627687][/doublepost]

Yes forced on, and forced no way to turn it off other than in settings. Amazing how difficult such a simple request is to understand for some people. Having a quick OFF button like we’ve had for years, is NOT TOO MUCH TO ASK. We have “3D touch”, should be pretty easy to fix, but people wanna quieten down what’s really happening here: forced all ON all the time ON supervision and tracking. Why else would they not have put a toggle for location awareness there ages ago like we had for years with jail broken phones.
Bah bah? Ok, then.

If you want to shut off wifi and bluetooth, go into settings. It's even easier now with 3dt on the settings icon. The control center is just fine. Apple is always tweaking things and is never afraid to try out new things, even though it knows some of it's customers won't like it. Apple cannot please everybody at the same time.
 
Bah bah
[doublepost=1525627687][/doublepost]

Yes forced on, and forced no way to turn it off other than in settings. Amazing how difficult such a simple request is to understand for some people. Having a quick OFF button like we’ve had for years, is NOT TOO MUCH TO ASK. We have “3D touch”, should be pretty easy to fix, but people wanna quieten down what’s really happening here: forced all ON all the time ON supervision and tracking. Why else would they not have put a toggle for location awareness there ages ago like we had for years with jail broken phones.
So what about a request for those to just disconnect rather than fully turn off prior to iOS 11?

Seems like supporting both is basically a good compromise there which will hopefully be added trough 3D Touch/longpress.
 
Thankfully people “like me” allow Apple to move ahead and create industry trends, while people “like you” hold Apple back.

Bad UI design is an industry trend?
Please explain how making an unclear UI behave in an illusive manner is 'moving ahead.'

You might like how it operates, but that doesn't mean it's a good UI. Apple could make it *function* as it does now with a proper UI. I still wouldn't like how it functions then, but at least it would be proper UI design.

Also, I am quite close to voting with my dollars after 30+ years buying a great deal of Apple's stuff, and recommending thousands of purchases from others. If we 'old guard' move on - including the 'think different' people and the creators - what's left will be a consumer products company trending towards fashion. Fashion is fickle. You might not like that future.

What's "really happening" is that Apple Support got tired of explaining to people that when they turn off Wi-Fi and Bluetooth, their Apple Watch won't work properly any more.

Yea, that sounds about right. So, the solution is to make the Apple Watch work properly, or to educate those users... not break it for everyone.

But, again, my main complaint here isn't that it doesn't work like I'd like. Sure, that tweaks me off, but it wouldn't be the first time.

My main issue here is that this is yet another straw on the camel's back of really poor UI/UX decisions by a company that drew many of us to it for their noted superiority in UX/UI.

This really is about Apple's more recent tendency to put marketing or stupid-user-tricks ahead of well thought out and designed user-interfaces and product design. And, that's what made Apple, Apple. If that goes, they won't be any better than any other consumer product out there besides a fruit-shaped logo people can show to prove they spent more money (aka, fashion).
 
Bad UI design is an industry trend?
Please explain how making an unclear UI behave in an illusive manner is 'moving ahead.'

You might like how it operates, but that doesn't mean it's a good UI. Apple could make it *function* as it does now with a proper UI. I still wouldn't like how it functions then, but at least it would be proper UI design.

Also, I am quite close to voting with my dollars after 30+ years buying a great deal of Apple's stuff, and recommending thousands of purchases from others. If we 'old guard' move on - including the 'think different' people and the creators - what's left will be a consumer products company trending towards fashion. Fashion is fickle. You might not like that future.
"Bad UI" is subjective at best. I'm the consumer of the product, and I get a vote about how I feel about the UI. You may not like the UI, but others have voiced different opinions on MacRumors.

Maybe the could make it better, but saying that doesn't make it bad.

My take on "if the old guard" moves on. There are plenty of new customers waiting to take their spot. Everybody has to decide what is best for them. If at some point in time I don't like the direction Apple is taking, I will move on. But for now I like their products as we have a mix of phones, computers, watches and an apple tv.
 
"Bad UI" is subjective at best. I'm the consumer of the product, and I get a vote about how I feel about the UI. You may not like the UI, but others have voiced different opinions on MacRumors.

Maybe the could make it better, but saying that doesn't make it bad.

My take on "if the old guard" moves on. There are plenty of new customers waiting to take their spot. Everybody has to decide what is best for them. If at some point in time I don't like the direction Apple is taking, I will move on. But for now I like their products as we have a mix of phones, computers, watches and an apple tv.

No, a UI that doesn't operate as it appears is bad. Nothing subjective about it at all.

re: 'old guard' - Yes, at least in the short term. Apple has many times more new iOS customers than Mac customers. Most of the customers have been gained in the last decade or so, and often came from a non-Apple background. So, you're absolutely right that the old Mac people, creatives, etc. can just be ignored and forgotten.

At least for a while. Eventually, following the whims of culture instead of good design principals, and creating fashion instead of style... will go out of fashion. There has to, eventually, be some substance to what Apple is selling.

When I started using Apple, I did so because it was the best stuff. It cost more, but I gained that back plus a bunch because it enabled me to be more efficient and focus on my craft, not computer technicalities.

This aspect has been slowly eroding away, accelerating in the last few years. I'm starting to question if Apple really is saving me time these days. I think so, but it's much harder to recognize now. The only thing keeping me in the fold is the difficulty to break away, and the fact that the grass isn't necessarily greener, yet, on the other side.

But, Apple has turned me from a raving fan into a reluctant user. The once used insult about me buying it to be fashionable, Apple has been playing on... and somewhat depending on. That isn't going to carry them much farther if they can't put some substance back into their offerings.

UX/UI superiority is what made Apple. It wasn't just taste or subjective. People who think that don't even understand what is is or why. It's a science that is, yes, part art. But art also isn't purely subjective. There is good art and bad art.

Apple currently has a ton of cash and hard-won brand image. But, they can burn through this if they make the wrong moves. It won't last forever without some reality backing it.

If you want an interesting analogy, look at BMW. They are currently struggling with a similar transition from being a drivers-machine to a fashion symbol. That shift, while good for income in the short term, is actually impacting the product and design. If they keep up this trend, they'll eventually loose the drivers, which will eventually erode the status symbol as well.

Or, consider the Ford GT40 or Chevy Corvette, or the racing programs of these companies. These aren't money makers. The products are a minute fraction of their output. Yet, they are *crucial* to their brand image, and drive innovation across the product line.

If Apple loses the creatives and 'think different' image, it will eventually impact the iPhones too.
 
No, a UI that doesn't operate as it appears is bad. Nothing subjective about it at all.

re: 'old guard' - Yes, at least in the short term. Apple has many times more new iOS customers than Mac customers. Most of the customers have been gained in the last decade or so, and often came from a non-Apple background. So, you're absolutely right that the old Mac people, creatives, etc. can just be ignored and forgotten.

At least for a while. Eventually, following the whims of culture instead of good design principals, and creating fashion instead of style... will go out of fashion. There has to, eventually, be some substance to what Apple is selling.

When I started using Apple, I did so because it was the best stuff. It cost more, but I gained that back plus a bunch because it enabled me to be more efficient and focus on my craft, not computer technicalities.

This aspect has been slowly eroding away, accelerating in the last few years. I'm starting to question if Apple really is saving me time these days. I think so, but it's much harder to recognize now. The only thing keeping me in the fold is the difficulty to break away, and the fact that the grass isn't necessarily greener, yet, on the other side.

But, Apple has turned me from a raving fan into a reluctant user. The once used insult about me buying it to be fashionable, Apple has been playing on... and somewhat depending on. That isn't going to carry them much farther if they can't put some substance back into their offerings.

UX/UI superiority is what made Apple. It wasn't just taste or subjective. People who think that don't even understand what is is or why. It's a science that is, yes, part art. But art also isn't purely subjective. There is good art and bad art.

Apple currently has a ton of cash and hard-won brand image. But, they can burn through this if they make the wrong moves. It won't last forever without some reality backing it.

If you want an interesting analogy, look at BMW. They are currently struggling with a similar transition from being a drivers-machine to a fashion symbol. That shift, while good for income in the short term, is actually impacting the product and design. If they keep up this trend, they'll eventually loose the drivers, which will eventually erode the status symbol as well.

Or, consider the Ford GT40 or Chevy Corvette, or the racing programs of these companies. These aren't money makers. The products are a minute fraction of their output. Yet, they are *crucial* to their brand image, and drive innovation across the product line.

If Apple loses the creatives and 'think different' image, it will eventually impact the iPhones too.
The ui operates exactly as its designed and the difference between disconnect and off is clear. So while some may not like it, the ui is fine and by definition good.

Re: old guard. Apple was doomed the day Tim Cook took ceo, at least according to the experts at Macrumors. I used to dislike Apple products and the company philosophy itself and in 2013, I went in. That’s what I mean by new customers. Many of my friends are post jobs new customers.

But I agree it’s easier to fall than to rise. I’m betting Apple won’t .
 
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The default should’ve remained at On/Off for the Control Center toggles and for those in the minority that want temporary off switches, they should access via the settings menu.

Anything that has to be explained by a pop up is clearly not an intuitive feature.



.
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EDIT: Noticed how old this thread is after I’d replied.
 
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The default should’ve remained at On/Off for the Control Center toggles and for those in the minority that want temporary off switches, they should access via the settings menu.

Maybe Apple has more numbers on who constitutes the minority…
 
The ui operates exactly as its designed and the difference between disconnect and off is clear. So while some may not like it, the ui is fine and by definition good.

Re: old guard. Apple was doomed the day Tim Cook took ceo, at least according to the experts at Macrumors. I used to dislike Apple products and the company philosophy itself and in 2013, I went in. That’s what I mean by new customers. Many of my friends are post jobs new customers.

But I agree it’s easier to fall than to rise. I’m betting Apple won’t .

So, then if someone decided to change the green light at an intersection to mean, 'you may go now, unless a semi-truck is coming from the other direction', you'd be OK with that?

re: old guard - Ahh, it's making a lot more sense now. You weren't around Apple when they were really great, or had really great UIs, and you're coming from poor experiences so Apple is an improvement.

That's the difference, I was around Apple when they were great, and am noticing them slipping and messing up... and I'd argue, actually changing their fundamental philosophy of approaching product/software design.

If they continue the decline, though, won't even new customers get pissed off at some point?

Yes, they are huge and have lots of momentum, but even big freight trains can be stopped.

The default should’ve remained at On/Off for the Control Center toggles and for those in the minority that want temporary off switches, they should access via the settings menu.

I think there are ways to do it. You could have a 3-state type switch or button (i.e.: tap it once it goes yellow, twice within a time-frame and it goes red. Tap again to go back to green.). You could pop that dialog upon setup and ask the user which way they prefer it to operate, and then have a preference-based switch.

But, off = sorta temporarily off, is just really bad UI.
[doublepost=1525713528][/doublepost]
Maybe Apple has more numbers on who constitutes the minority…

Irrelevant. Something bad is still bad even if in the majority.
 
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re: old guard - Ahh, it's making a lot more sense now. You weren't around Apple when they were really great, or had really great UIs, and you're coming from poor experiences so Apple is an improvement.

I was around when the Macintosh LC was new.

Irrelevant. Something bad is still bad even if in the majority.

You've made your opinion abundantly clear.
 
So, then if someone decided to change the green light at an intersection to mean, 'you may go now, unless a semi-truck is coming from the other direction', you'd be OK with that?

re: old guard - Ahh, it's making a lot more sense now. You weren't around Apple when they were really great, or had really great UIs, and you're coming from poor experiences so Apple is an improvement.

That's the difference, I was around Apple when they were great, and am noticing them slipping and messing up... and I'd argue, actually changing their fundamental philosophy of approaching product/software design.

If they continue the decline, though, won't even new customers get pissed off at some point?

Yes, they are huge and have lots of momentum, but even big freight trains can be stopped.



I think there are ways to do it. You could have a 3-state type switch or button (i.e.: tap it once it goes yellow, twice within a time-frame and it goes red. Tap again to go back to green.). You could pop that dialog upon setup and ask the user which way they prefer it to operate, and then have a preference-based switch.

But, off = sorta temporarily off, is just really bad UI.
[doublepost=1525713528][/doublepost]

Irrelevant. Something bad is still bad even if in the majority.
Hyperbole. People don’t expect the rules of the road to shift whereby in the US:
  • Green means stop and red means go
  • We drive on the left side of the road
  • The accelerator and brake are reversed etc
Windows has changed things subtly through the ages and Apple should have that flexibility also.

Re: old guard. Correct I started with iOS 4 and grew to dislike iOS 6. iOS 7 was the first o/s on my very first iPhone. A big improvement from iOS 6. And have been buying their products and enjoying their products ever since.

All of the little aphorisms, doesn’t mean they are in a decline. A freight train can be stopped, but it’s also can be made to go by two or three locomotors. One is called tim cook.
 
You've made your opinion abundantly clear.

That wasn't opinion.

All of the little aphorisms, doesn’t mean they are in a decline. A freight train can be stopped, but it’s also can be made to go by two or three locomotors. One is called tim cook.

We'll see. Tim is doing a great job of running the company. That's not the aspect I'm worried about.
Tim has said that Apple does still care about the Mac and creatives, etc. We'll see if his words actually turn into action. If not, we'll know.

On the other hand, if Apple is committed to transforming into a consumer electronics, fashion company... then I wish them well while it lasts.
 
That wasn't opinion.



We'll see. Tim is doing a great job of running the company. That's not the aspect I'm worried about.
Tim has said that Apple does still care about the Mac and creatives, etc. We'll see if his words actually turn into action. If not, we'll know.

On the other hand, if Apple is committed to transforming into a consumer electronics, fashion company... then I wish them well while it lasts.
We’ll see, is correct. Let’s see if TC last 10 years and what Apple is like at the end of his tenure.
 
Maybe Apple has more numbers on who constitutes the minority…

I’m sure they do, but they wouldn’t have introduced the pop up if people weren’t confused and complaining.

The Control Center’s whole purpose when it was introduced was quick access to key functions. This goes against that ethos.

More people would want to switch Bluetooth and WiFi off from the toggles rather than temporarily disconnect.

As I said, those that want to do the temporary thing could still be enabled via the settings menu. I don’t want to completely take functionality away from anyone.
 
I’m sure they do, but they wouldn’t have introduced the pop up if people weren’t confused and complaining.

The Control Center’s whole purpose when it was introduced was quick access to key functions. This goes against that ethos.

More people would want to switch Bluetooth and WiFi off from the toggles rather than temporarily disconnect.

As I said, those that want to do the temporary thing could still be enabled via the settings menu. I don’t want to completely take functionality away from anyone.

Yes, this is about Continuity. They changed the function for everyone so they didn't have to create some kind of other workaround to make Continuity work properly (as it can't work if you really turn off WiFi/BT).

It seems like an 'if you use Continuity, then you might like...' would be more appropriate, but I'm sure Apple really, really wants people to use Continuity.
 
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