That's exactly what happens. 7 days was most likely chosen as a compromise for LE. Unlike TV shows, it takes time to obtain a warrant.
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iOS 11.4 Disables Lightning Connector After 7 Days, Limiting Law Enforcement Access
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That's exactly what happens. 7 days was most likely chosen as a compromise for LE. Unlike TV shows, it takes time to obtain a warrant.
All the discussion regarding rewinding the phone's internal clock back - I find it hard to believe that whoever designed this feature was careless enough as to make it possible to unlock the port by setting the clock back. Why would it be designed like that? When it's locked, it's locked, it shouldn't care what time it is anymore.
That's right, people make the assumption that a) the timer uses the network time and b) the phone syncs with network time while locked. Very iffy assumptions.
For normal people, features like this are largely a deterrent to thieves, and piece of mind that if someone steals you phone, they won't be able to unlock it quickly and get your banking information, passwords, ID information, where your kids go to school, find you home and unlock it via homekit lock - so yes, there's lots to protect on the phone that's perfectly legal, and could cause you a nightmare if it gets into wrong hands. You're probably imagining that pick-pocketers would never be able to achieve this kind of thing, but that's IMO not really the case - phone thieves are very proficient with this kind of stuff, and have people who really know what they're doing when it comes to unlocking phones. Think about the credit card fraud, PIN number stealing devices attached to ATMs, NFC readers... it's these same extremely proficient people who are also in charge of unlocking stolen phones nowadays.
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Again, to my knowledge, iOS doesn't support setting the time via GSM at all.
The password isn't in RAM. You can ask the Secure Enclave whether your password is correct, but you can only guess at 80ms max.
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Yes.
Because you don't want to unlock your phone while driving the car?
Exactly!
Thank you for bringing those points up. I agree 100%, and can't stand the immediate reaction/attitude of "if you have nothing to hide, who cares?" towards a lot of new security measures. There's a lot more to it than just trying to hide things. Our phones have access to so much more personal information now than ever before.
chucker23n1 said:
OMG! Why would Apple implement a different way of acquiring time beside the one that's built into the standard for the network?
The command to send to the modem is AT+CLTS? and the network will reply with the correct time and date, if supported.
Read this:
https://help.apple.com/iphone/11/?lang=en#/iph70825e5ae
Satisfied?
I had one of these in 1988:
https://gubbens.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/nmt-mobil.jpg
Really, really heavy and just a few hours of standby time. Most of the time it was mounted in my car.
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Because iPhone runs iOS and iOS is an OS X derivative and OS X already has NTP.
I'm quite satisfied, thanks for asking.
So maybe iOS does support GSM time by now (it didn't in early versions). Are you also asserting that the seven-day timer is time-based? And that setting the time backwards will also set the timer backwards?
Oh, and that setting time via GSM also ignores NTP-recommended practices like only accepting a certain maximum offset?
That's great, and iPhone is decidedly not one of those. It's not an evolved cellphone with apps. It's a scaled down Mac with touch UI.
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Sigh.
Ok, NTP requires data, carrier time not. NTP does not carry information about time zone, it's just a UTC time signal. Using NTP would require the user to set the time zone, not very helpful in a device that can be expected to move between time zones quite often.
MacOS uses NTP, but if you haven't noticed, it uses wifi/network to determine your location and set the time zone accordingly, it even tells you that in the setting. You can easily test this out: If you are in a different time zone than your "home time zone", turn of all network access and put the mac to sleep. When you wake it up, it will be back in your "home time zone" until you turn networking on, at which time it will "pop" over to the time zone you're currently in. I've experienced this myself and users do have a problem with this as if you have sketchy network access, it means that the computer will constantly switch between time zones.
The iPhone has always supported carrier time settings since 2007. It's the only logical way to set time in a phone. What macOS does is really irrelevant. The iPhone may very well support NTP, but it uses carrier time if set to auto.
Setting time via carrier must accept quite big changes in time as you travel (up to 12 hours or even more?).
In this case, where you would have access to the device, I would dismantle it and stop the RTC. At boot, the device will try to connect to a carrier and if that carrier accepts the SIM/IMEI the iPhone will have access to carrier time. Do that a couple of times and move the time 12 hours back every time, and you will be able to quickly "reverse time" until the lock is no longer active. You might not even need to do that since afaik, the system does not have any stored information about what the time was at the moment power was lost, it assumes the RTC keeps running even when the phone is off, so you could possible just set it at an arbitrary time and iOS will accept that.
Using carrier time actually makes it safer. Using NTP would be a lot easier to spoof than setting up a fake carrier to accept the phone and making sure it does not pick up any "real" carriers at boot.
The iPhone is not a scaled down mac.
Ok, NTP requires data, carrier time not. NTP does not carry information about time zone, it's just a UTC time signal. Using NTP would require the user to set the time zone, not very helpful in a device that can be expected to move between time zones quite often.
MacOS uses NTP, but if you haven't noticed, it uses wifi/network to determine your location and set the time zone accordingly, it even tells you that in the setting. You can easily test this out: If you are in a different time zone than your "home time zone", turn of all network access and put the mac to sleep. When you wake it up, it will be back in your "home time zone" until you turn networking on, at which time it will "pop" over to the time zone you're currently in. I've experienced this myself and users do have a problem with this as if you have sketchy network access, it means that the computer will constantly switch between time zones.
The iPhone has always supported carrier time settings since 2007. It's the only logical way to set time in a phone. What macOS does is really irrelevant. The iPhone may very well support NTP, but it uses carrier time if set to auto.
Setting time via carrier must accept quite big changes in time as you travel (up to 12 hours or even more?).
In this case, where you would have access to the device, I would dismantle it and stop the RTC. At boot, the device will try to connect to a carrier and if that carrier accepts the SIM/IMEI the iPhone will have access to carrier time. Do that a couple of times and move the time 12 hours back every time, and you will be able to quickly "reverse time" until the lock is no longer active. You might not even need to do that since afaik, the system does not have any stored information about what the time was at the moment power was lost, it assumes the RTC keeps running even when the phone is off, so you could possible just set it at an arbitrary time and iOS will accept that.
Using carrier time actually makes it safer. Using NTP would be a lot easier to spoof than setting up a fake carrier to accept the phone and making sure it does not pick up any "real" carriers at boot.
The iPhone is not a scaled down mac.
Carrier time as been supported since iOS 1.0 if I remember correctly. It works on GSM and CDMA. Now at I think about it iOS could also get the time from GPS, although I don't think it does.
I've done some more research on this and while I still haven't found a definitive answer, it appears my memory is faulty.
Rather, it may be on the opposite end that while iOS did support GSM time, European carriers didn't support it on their end.
While I understand your point of view, I have a password app, many banking apps on my phone, which all require another password or biometrics to unlock it. So, even if they stole my iPhone and even if they were able to unlock it, getting into those apps in which all my passwords/pins, etc are, require you to break that encryption as well. So, I am already protected. Again, I get the whole thing for the need of security and privacy, but, if LE has a search warrant to search your model device, just like search warrant for your house or car, etc, your phone should be opened to them, even if you are deceased, period. But, I won't try to convince any of you that you are wrong with your point of view, I understand it as well, this is just my point of view.
Sounds presumptive. Why should it be opened to them?
Now that a phone can contain masses of deeply private and personal information about it's owner, you could almost think of the phone as an extension of them.
Try this. Just as a though experiment - say we could hook a machine up to a person's brain and examine everything inside: memories, thoughts, fears, anxieties, etc. Should we? Would that be ethical? Should we grant LE powers to do that? It would certainly make their job easier, but would it be right?
Device privacy is a tough ethical question that needs to be publicly debated - and not simply nodded-through in some backroom session. Locking the lightning port is a good way of forcing that debate.
Is it really that difficult to admit you're just wrong?
GSM was developed in Europe, the first call made in 1991 and was the standard in Europe in the mid 90s (I bought my first GSM phone in 1994).
NITZ was introduced in phase 2 release 96 (feb -97)
UMTS networks have more advanced NITZ which includes DST settings, introduced with 3GPP version 8.0.0 release 8 (2009)
You think the government should just be able to get into your device? Or maybe if these people can figure out how to do it, nefarious people can also. Isn't it about keeping your device safe? If the government wants access it can get it regardless(illegally or legally).
I don't think it should necessarily be easy for them to get into it, but once they've got a warrant, they should be able to get into it. Until they have a warrant, they shouldn't be able to get in. But once they've got a warrant and they can't get in because the OS prevents them, the OS developer has obstructed justice. Well, unless they can subpoena the owner of the phone to provide the passcode before it times out on them.
IMO, the government should be able to get into the phone legally; having said that, I am against back doors, because back doors mean nefarious people can get in also. So I agree with a warrant the government should be able to access the phone, but you can't keep out ne'er do-wells and the government by making it easy to subvert the operating system.
Apparently, this thread is about a high worry about your data in your devices not being accessible to police while at the same time don't worrying at all that your data in your devices is accessed by apps which are connected to Internet and whose license you accepted without having the slightest idea of what you accepted. Moreover, there's not even the slightest worry on the user not being able anymore to stop nagging popups from Apple unless they're accepted.
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Expansion slots? What are you talking about? All the Mac design ideas back in the days were based on the fact that with the Mac you had the freedom of doing computing in the way you wanted, as opposed to in the way Microsoft wanted. And it was true, as the Mac allowed me to do things in the way I wanted. Now it's the opposite: You have to do things in the way Apple wants, and Apple's popup dialogs no longer have Yes/No buttons, but Accept/AskMeAgainLater buttons. You cannot say no... Hmm... that's exactly the Microsoft way of doing things.
Either you didn't really use your Mac, or you never used any other systems which would have been more pleasant for you, as they were designed with the mindset the current Apple is applying in every new scary bit they develop (yes, even if you don't believe it, back in the 90s there were other companies that pioneered the lack of user freedom that nowadays you love so much in your Apple devices).
So for the .01% of criminals your going to surrender everyone else’s privacy? Please move to North Korea today. Don’t wait until tomorrow. Move today. You’ll love it there
I guess if your gonna improve security their is no point at making it the same.
Nice, an update that "bricks" $30,000 GrayKeys instead of iPhones.
lol... no one saw that one coming. A win for the home team