iOS 16 iPad - Stage Manager

[Ludatyk]

If they're going to market and sell currently five different iPads (iPad, iPad mini, iPad Air, iPad Pro 11 and 12.9) at the very least allow those who spend top dollar on an iPad Pro, the same price if not more than a MacBook Pro, the ability to run a more complex OS should they choose. Those who want a simply, touch only interface, there's the iPad, iPad mini, and iPad Air.

You are aware.. that spending the top dollar on the iPad Pro gets you premium hardware and that results to a better performing OS.

It’s like you mentioning… well, there’s the MacBook Air and if I’m spending top dollar on a MacBook Pro I should get a more complex OS.

 

[Dianneeraser]

No!

Think about it... its just not in apple's interest to make the iPad behave the same as a Mac. They are different products aimed at different people for different use cases.

Arguably... in their attempts to appease the "i must have windows" crowd they are making iPadOS very very messy now. There are 2 distinctly different multitasking environments to know about and learn.. only a subset of iPads can even run Stage Manager leading to some real confusion as people upgrade in September....

Personally i find the current iPadOS 15 implementation high functional and it does what it needs to do yet it is still not really intuitive... many people forget that they maybe have many instances of Safari open yet dont really ever know about it or see it - stage manager seems far more user friendly. Given the choice I would prefer to work in Stage Manager given the visibility of other running apps.

Fortunately for those who want the iPad to remain simple.. even if they can they dont have to activate Stage Manager.

Why would Apple, at this point, make iPadOS look and behave like MacOS. If you want a windowed environment then buy a Mac - its not as if Apple dont have a product that works just as you seem to want it to.

A touch first interface just cant be windowed in the way you want... and Stage Manager seems a reasonable compromise to that way of working... if thats what you really want.

This isnt to say that sometime in the future the iPad, or the MacBook, will become obsolete. We have seen this happen over and over - the latest example being the death of the iPod. The iPod is a huge iconic brand that was ubiquitous but now of course its been swallowed up by the iPhone. It was inevitable and took a while to happen but it happened and Apple were quite willing to kill off not only the iPod device, but also the name too (theres no iPod app on the phone after all).

Thank you. You just made my point.

 

[papbot]

I would much rather use my iPad Pro for everything, but I can't given the limitations of iPadOS, so I must own a Mac.

I mostly agree with this but I really don’t find iPadOS that limiting, for my uses. But even with my simple needs I occasionally have to revert to my laptop. However I would estimate my usage as 95+% iPad Pro and 5% or less of my computer. Which is why I’m still using a 2013 MBP while using a 2021 iPad Pro.

 

[Dianneeraser]

The whole "if you want MacOS, buy a Mac" argument is so tired. I don't know how many times it needs to be explained, I would much rather use my iPad Pro for everything, but I can't given the limitations of iPadOS, so I must own a Mac. Given that they both run on the same chip, it's frustrating that Apple doesn't even allow users the choice of which OS they'd rather use. Especially considering they allowed us to dual boot Windows, their direct competitor, on Apple hardware since 2006! And it's still supported on intel Macs, they updated bootcamp 2 months ago.

If they're going to market and sell currently five different iPads (iPad, iPad mini, iPad Air, iPad Pro 11 and 12.9) at the very least allow those who spend top dollar on an iPad Pro, the same price if not more than a MacBook Pro, the ability to run a more complex OS should they choose. Those who want a simply, touch only interface, there's the iPad, iPad mini, and iPad Air.

Agreed! So much this!

 

[Jedimindtrick]

You are aware.. that spending the top dollar on the iPad Pro gets you premium hardware and that results to a better performing OS.

It’s like you mentioning… well, there’s the MacBook Air and if I’m spending top dollar on a MacBook Pro I should get a more complex OS.

Correct, premium hardware, the same hardware that's currently sold in four Apple computers: iMac, Mac mini, MacBook Air and MacBook Pro.

The base iPad on the other hand has only 3gb of ram and uses a processor that's sold in the iPhone SE, a budget cell phone.

Yet, the base iPad and the iPad Pro run on the same OS, even though the iPad Pro's hardware is capable of powering an iMac, while the base $329 iPad can't.

My point is, I'm not asking for my iPad Pro to do something it can't do.

Whereas I would never expect an entry level iPad to run MacOS.

 

[Jedimindtrick]

A touch first interface just cant be windowed in the way you want...

I agree with this. The problem I have with this stance is that Apple markets the heck out of their $350 magic keyboard with trackpad. It's on every single iPad Pro commercial. So sure, it's touch "first". But for many using it with their $350 add on, it's touch second.

I'm not really proposing that they make major changes to make iPadOS more like macOS, I'd rather they simply allow me the option to run macOS on my m1 iPad Pro. It's got 1TB, that's plenty of space to partition the drive and dual boot into it. But that's the problem, Apple is so against the idea of doing something so "advanced" as partitioning the hard drive on an iPad Pro. And I think that's a shame.

 

[Ludatyk]

Correct, premium hardware, the same hardware that's currently sold in four Apple computers: iMac, Mac mini, MacBook Air and MacBook Pro.

The base iPad on the other hand has only 3gb of ram and uses a processor that's sold in the iPhone SE, a budget cell phone.

Yet, the base iPad and the iPad Pro run on the same OS, even though the iPad Pro's hardware is capable of powering an iMac, while the base $329 iPad can't.

My point is, I'm not asking for my iPad Pro to do something it can't do.

Whereas I would never expect an entry level iPad to run MacOS.

Huh? iPad Pro… has premium hardware compared to the other models. The iPhone 13 Pro has premium hardware compared to the iPhone SE. Are you following me?

I fully understand your logic that the iPad Pro is capable of running macOS, but they are two separate categories… one runs a touch-first UI while the other one is mouse-driven. The point I’m making is… take for instance, Photoshop. Adobe have a full Photoshop version on the Mac, this version is optimized for mouse… but they didn’t automatically decide to port their full Photoshop version to the iPad.

Adobe completely rewrote their Photoshop app to a touch-base UI… although, features are missing from the full version… their plan is to add features going forward.

I'm not really proposing that they make major changes to make iPadOS more like macOS, I'd rather they simply allow me the option to run macOS on my m1 iPad Pro. It's got 1TB, that's plenty of space to partition the drive and dual boot into it. But that's the problem, Apple is so against the idea of doing something so "advanced" as partitioning the hard drive on an iPad Pro. And I think that's a shame.

Who’s to say they want in the future? As of now… Apple has added virtual swap to M1 iPads and this is why there is huge complaints among 2018/2020 iPad Pro owners.

We criticize Apple for trying to advance the iPad Pro… with features like Stage Manager and not adding it to other iPad Pro models, but then we complain “hey, it needs to run macOS” or ”iPadOS cannot run desktop class apps.” But in order for the iPad Pro to get there, Apple needs to have guidelines in place to provide that option.

 

[Jedimindtrick]

take for instance, Photoshop. Adobe have a full Photoshop version on the Mac, this version is optimized for mouse… but they didn’t automatically decide to port their full Photoshop version to the iPad.

Adobe completely rewrote their Photoshop app to a touch-base UI… although, features are missing from the full version… their plan is to add features going forward.

I understand this, but photoshop for iPadOS has to account for those not only running a powerful iPad Pro with a m1 and 16gb or ram, but also those running a base iPad with 3gb of ram and an older chip. And I think that's mainly where my criticism come in. The base iPad is like an anchor for iPadOS, because you always have to account for how weak it is in comparison to an iPad Pro.

To be clear, I really like iPadOS for what it is. It's a fantastic tablet OS, and works really well on iPad. on my iPad mini 2021, it's perfect. However it's incredibly underwhelming on an iPad Pro given its hardware.

 

[Ludatyk]

I understand this, but photoshop for iPadOS has to account for those not only running a powerful iPad Pro with a m1 and 16gb or ram, but also those running a base iPad with 3gb of ram and an older chip. And I think that's mainly where my criticism come in. The base iPad is like an anchor for iPadOS, because you always have to account for how weak it is in comparison to an iPad Pro.

Well, Adobe has the potential of releasing updates targeting only M1 iPads because I know Procreate has been doing so. Developers have a history of updating features targeting hardware on Apple devices.

To be clear, I really like iPadOS for what it is. It's a fantastic tablet OS, and works really well on iPad. on my iPad mini 2021, it's perfect. However it's incredibly underwhelming on an iPad Pro given its hardware.

And this is where the decision of Stage Manager on M1 iPads has came from.. to push the iPad so critics such as yourself not bring up the iPad Pro having a underwhelming OS. Although, Stage Manager is not exactly what you want… but window-resizing is new to the platform. And virtual swap can be used to build upon.

 

[Devyn89]

I’ve tried it out for a little bit today and yesterday so these are at best preliminary thoughts in point form:

Likes:

Better multi-tasking, easier to see things as you want to see them.

Background blur effect is quite awesome

Apps show view to best fit the size you make them (apps with side bar appears when enough horizontal space is given to the window)

Dislikes:

The icon on the window to resize is not consistently in the same spot.

Resizing is only on certain predetermined parameters

Unsure when stage manager will open or when app will open full screen.

Dock shows up and then doesn’t sometimes.

The UI tries to anticipate your needs but it sometimes is jarring when elements leave the screen as you’re dragging windows around

Moving in and out of stage manager is weird

 

[Jedimindtrick]

Well, Adobe has the potential of releasing updates targeting only M1 iPads because I know Procreate has been doing so. Developers have a history of updating features targeting hardware on Apple devices.


And this is where the decision of Stage Manager on M1 iPads has came from.. to push the iPad so critics such as yourself not bring up the iPad Pro having a underwhelming OS. Although, Stage Manager is not exactly what you want… but window-resizing is new to the platform. And virtual swap can be used to build upon.

I doubt Apple gated Stage Manager to M1 iPads to silence critics. It was a hardware issue.

Let me ask you this: would you buy a touch screen MacBook Air if it could only run iPadOS? Because that’s basically what an iPad Pro with magic keyboard is. A device capable of much more, being held back by its software.

iPad Pros have the potential to be the best portable computing device money can buy. For many it already is. I love mine! I just find it infuriating that there’s tasks that I have to get my MacBook Pro out (a device that literally uses the exact same chip) to accomplish.

But we can go back and forth on this topic all day. We’ll never convince each other who’s right. I respect your opinion of iPadOS. As someone who’s been on the iPad Pro bandwagon since they’ve launched, they’ve certainly made tremendous strides in advancing its capabilities. I personally think it’s time to draw a line in the sand between iPad Pros and non iPads Pros, and take full advantage at the M1 processors and 16gb ram.

 

[Ludatyk]

I doubt Apple gated Stage Manager to M1 iPads to silence critics. It was a hardware issue.

Not in a literally sense, but more so trying to add features such as Stage Manager to get to the end goal of having a Mac-like experience.

Let me ask you this: would you buy a touch screen MacBook Air if it could only run iPadOS? Because that’s basically what an iPad Pro with magic keyboard is. A device capable of much more, being held back by its software.

I disagree. I have a MK, that doesn’t automatically make it a MacBook because of mouse and keyboard support. Apple added mouse support back in iOS 13.4 to add versatility to iPadOS… macOS with mouse support is a totally different experience compared to iPadOS.

I personally think it’s time to draw a line in the sand between iPad Pros and non iPads Pros, and take full advantage at the M1 processors and 16gb ram.

And that’s what Apple has done with iPadOS 16… they have drawn a line between iPad Pros/iPad Air and base model iPads by the decision of Stage Manager. Going forward iPad lines will have iPadOS features that differentiate themselves that’s if Apple keep A series chips on base model iPads.

 

[contacos]

For your reference. 3 apps horizontal or 2 apps vertical.
View attachment 2016587
View attachment 2016586

So you can’t have windows „floating“ on the Home Screen at any size? It automatically adjusts depending on how many app screens you have open? This clutter is giving me almost claustrophobic anxiety (exaggerating) just by looking at it haha

 

[Jedimindtrick]

Dislikes:
The UI tries to anticipate your needs but it sometimes is jarring when elements leave the screen as you’re dragging windows around

This, IMO, is the weirdest thing about Stage Manager in its current state. The constant shuffling of your windows behind whatever window you're currently resizing. It always makes sure that you can see at least a small portion of the windows in the back. If I'm working on something, I know which windows are open behind the top window. I don't need to see it, necessarily. What's frustrating about it, is that because of this constant shuffling, you actually can't place the top window wherever you please. When you let go it will float to wherever it needs to be so that you can see the other open windows.

I also don't really understand the need to have the sidebar on the left showing you which apps are open. It takes up too much space, when all they need to do is put an indicator in the dock over your current open apps like macOS does. I'm not sure why mimicking something so simple from macOS is perceived as a crime in iPadOS. Not everything in iPadOS needs its own identity.

It feels like they're really trying to reinvent the wheel with some of these concepts, overcomplicating things unnecessarily. With that said, Stage Manager is very ambitious, and I would much rather Apple push the envelope and try new things than nothing at all. These small quirks will improve over time.

 

[Ludatyk]

So you can’t have windows „floating“ on the Home Screen at any size? It automatically adjusts depending on how many app screens you have open? This clutter is giving me almost claustrophobic anxiety (exaggerating) just by looking at it haha

Huh? I’m confused by that question. But apps/windows do automatically adjust depending on how many you have on screen. However, you can always resize windows to your preferences… But removing the dock/recent apps gives you more real estate to move around apps.

I also don't really understand the need to have the sidebar on the left showing you which apps are open. It takes up too much space, when all they need to do is put an indicator in the dock over your current open apps like macOS does. I'm not sure why mimicking something so simple from macOS is perceived as a crime in iPadOS. Not everything in iPadOS needs its own identity.

You can remove the sidebar (recent windows/apps) and dock to allow more space, but the reason why the sidebar exist is to give quick access to your apps.

But you do bring up a good point… I do wish Apple would have some kind of indicator showing you what apps are open.

It feels like they're really trying to reinvent the wheel with some of these concepts, overcomplicating things unnecessarily. With that said, Stage Manager is very ambitious, and I would much rather Apple push the envelope and try new things than nothing at all. These small quirks will improve over time.

As Craig mention in the The Talk Show… Stage Manager started as a Mac concept in an effort to help users who uses a lot of windows. He brought up a story where his kid dragged windows off to the side in a disorderly way, so he believe Stage Manager can help in situations like that.

 

[Devyn89]

This, IMO, is the weirdest thing about Stage Manager in its current state. The constant shuffling of your windows behind whatever window you're currently resizing. It always makes sure that you can see at least a small portion of the windows in the back. If I'm working on something, I know which windows are open behind the top window. I don't need to see it, necessarily. What's frustrating about it, is that because of this constant shuffling, you actually can't place the top window wherever you please. When you let go it will float to wherever it needs to be so that you can see the other open windows.

I also don't really understand the need to have the sidebar on the left showing you which apps are open. It takes up too much space, when all they need to do is put an indicator in the dock over your current open apps like macOS does. I'm not sure why mimicking something so simple from macOS is perceived as a crime in iPadOS. Not everything in iPadOS needs its own identity.

It feels like they're really trying to reinvent the wheel with some of these concepts, overcomplicating things unnecessarily. With that said, Stage Manager is very ambitious, and I would much rather Apple push the envelope and try new things than nothing at all. These small quirks will improve over time.

I totally agree about the dock indicator and if it wasn't an app in the dock they could put a dot where you access the app library on the dock. It's great they are trying to bring mac like features but done in an iPad-like way. I think it's going to involve growing pains over the next few years; like it has for the last few but I think it'll keep getting better. In a weird way iPadOS feels like an college student going into the world and will grow a lot over the next few years.

 

[RLRabb]

I don’t have the developer beta, but I some questions about how Stage Manager works with existing features.

My understanding is that Slide Over does not work with Stage Manager, but what about Quick Notes and PIP support? Do they work on top of Floating windows and if so, do they count as one of the 4 windows allowed to be open?

In addition, does the Shelf work within an open window just as it does in a Split View window? For example, if I have Pages open in Stage Manager, does the Shelf open when I click on the 3 dots at the top of the window? If it does, and I open a new Pages doc, does it add it to the existing group of apps open? If I want to open 6 Pages docs in succession, where does it place these windows?

I haven’t seen these kinds of questions addressed.

 

[Ludatyk]

My understanding is that Slide Over does not work with Stage Manager, but what about Quick Notes and PIP support? Do they work on top of Floating windows and if so, do they count as one of the 4 windows allowed to be open?

Yes, that is true… Slide Over does not work in Stage Manager. But Quick Notes and PiP support does work within Stage Manage… as you might imagine they both float over the existing windows. And I think those two features are separate from 4 windows being open simultaneously.

In addition, does the Shelf work within an open window just as it does in a Split View window? For example, if I have Pages open in Stage Manager, does the Shelf open when I click on the 3 dots at the top of the window? If it does, and I open a new Pages doc, does it add it to the existing group of apps open? If I want to open 6 Pages docs in succession, where does it place these windows?

Shelf feature does not work within Stage Manager… if you have multiple windows of the same app open during Stage Manager they are grouped together… you’ll be able to see it within the recent windows/apps on the side or in the App Switcher. It can seem confusing… but there’s visual cues that indicates what’s open.

 

[RLRabb]

Yes, that is true… Slide Over does not work in Stage Manager. But Quick Notes and PiP support does work within Stage Manage… as you might imagine they both float over the existing windows. And I think those two features are separate from 4 windows being open simultaneously.


Shelf feature does not work within Stage Manager… if you have multiple windows of the same app open during Stage Manager they are grouped together… you’ll be able to see it within the recent windows/apps on the side or in the App Switcher. It can seem confusing… but there’s visual cues that indicates what’s open.

Thanks very much. It definitely seems like something I'll have to try in person to see how it fits together.

I still don't understand why they haven't given us tabbed documents in Pages.

 

[Jedimindtrick]

I hope they add an option that removes the three dots button for window options, and rather simply allow me to always display the window options button on the status bar of that window - like a conventional window OS (for example, the red, orange, and green buttons on MacOS or the dash, square, X icons on Windows). At the very least, enable this option when using a mouse/trackpad, I’m not going to accidentally hit the wrong button with a mouse input.

If we’re going to use window resizing buttons, why make me click on what is more or less a drop down menu to access those buttons. Seems redundant.

Also, PadOS could really use a Command+Q quitting feature to close out an app. Doesn’t have to be the exact same as MacOS Command+Q, but at least give me some type of keyboard command I can learn and use to close/quit an app.

Updated to ipados beta 2, seems a little more stable. But still too janky to rely upon as a work device. Still trying to give Stage Manager as much of a chance as I can. While I’m more used to it now, I don’t think its better than Split View with a Slide Over app, currently.

 

[Jedimindtrick]

Stage Manager on beta 3, some nice improvements. They've added text descriptions to the three-dot action button which is helpful. The allowed window sizes IMO seem to offer more variance. iPhone size apps (like Instagram) now show up as a small iPhone sized window, which I really like.

Once you've got the windows arranged how you want them (or rather, how iPadOS allows you to have them) it's pretty useful with an external monitor.

The only issue I continue to have, and it's a major gripe, is the OS moving all of windows on its own. It's truly a terrible experience. I don't need the OS to determine where the best fit on the screen is for a window. There's so much wasted space as a result. I really hope they allow the option to turn that off. I understand it's meant to make things easier if only using a finger, but when hooked up to an external monitor with keyboard and mouse/trackpad I'd really like to see more emphasis on pointer controls, and have the touch controls be a secondary concern.

Speaking of which, Stage Manager on an external display actually only works in the first place if you have a mouse/trackpad hooked up to the iPad. So if that's the case, why make the experience worse by remaining so dedicated to touch controls?

 

[Ludatyk]

Speaking of which, Stage Manager on an external display actually only works in the first place if you have a mouse/trackpad hooked up to the iPad. So if that's the case, why make the experience worse by remaining so dedicated to touch controls?

I think it’s more so trying to keep it consistent across the external display and on the iPad itself.

But it’s important to have that keyboard/mouse requirement in order to use Stage Manager on an external display… because how else would someone interact with the external display. Unless the user mirror it then we will be back with complaints wishing for full external display support.

 

[Jedimindtrick]

I think it’s more so trying to keep it consistent across the external display and on the iPad itself.

But it’s important to have that keyboard/mouse requirement in order to use Stage Manager on an external display… because how else would someone interact with the external display. Unless the user mirror it then we will be back with complaints wishing for full external display support.

Obviously I understand that Stage Manager on an external display requires a mouse and keyboard, because you can‘t touch an external monitor.

That‘s why I brought it up. To make the point that since a mouse/keyboard is a requirement for it work on an external monitor, why not offer some subtle tweaks in the UI that improve the experience of using a cursor? As opposed to mimicking finger touch controls on an external screen that doesn’t have touch controls?

If I’m going to hook up a monitor, mouse and keyboard, (which again, is required) I’m obviously sitting at a desk. I’m not saying they should scrap it and go back to the drawing board, just a couple tweaks that recognize I’m not using my finger to control this device any longer.

But as we both have gone back and forth on before, it’s only the 3rd beta. They’re obviously going to tweak it and make improvements. We still have what, 3 or 4 more betas before GM?

 

[DaSal]

Does anybody have the new LG Dual-Up 16:18 ratio 2560x2880 display that could test if it works correctly with stage manager?

I’m very curious if the feature is resolution/aspect-ratio independent or if Apple hard-coded it for widescreen panels.

 

[Ludatyk]

Obviously I understand that Stage Manager on an external display requires a mouse and keyboard, because you can‘t touch an external monitor.

That‘s why I brought it up. To make the point that since a mouse/keyboard is a requirement for it work on an external monitor, why not offer some subtle tweaks in the UI that improve the experience of using a cursor? As opposed to mimicking finger touch controls on an external screen that doesn’t have touch controls?

If I’m going to hook up a monitor, mouse and keyboard, (which again, is required) I’m obviously sitting at a desk. I’m not saying they should scrap it and go back to the drawing board, just a couple tweaks that recognize I’m not using my finger to control this device any longer.

But as we both have gone back and forth on before, it’s only the 3rd beta. They’re obviously going to tweak it and make improvements. We still have what, 3 or 4 more betas before GM?

I understand your perspective, but the iPad itself works with mouse/keyboard and the UI isn’t tweaked to improve on that experience. You would think.. as soon as I attach the Magic Keyboard on my iPad that UI will change.

But I think Apple wants a cohesive and consistent experience across Stage Manager on the iPad and on an external display. And yeah, Apple will make tweaks and improvements, but I highly doubt they will make UI changes based on when a user is using an external display.