iOS 19 and iOS 20 Must Include a Long List of Major Changes, EU Says

[cocky jeremy]

You know Steve would have given the EU the finger and say "have fun explaining to your citizens why they can't buy iPhones anymore. Give us a call when you change your mind."

To be clear, I don't think that would be the best course for Apple, but it'd certainly be entertaining.

But it would be best for Apple because the EU pricks would cave. But as long as Apple keeps bending over for them, they'll push, push, and push more.

 

[Pudlo]

When you're launching rockets that has an environmental impact both if something goes wrong during launch (as seen recently with all the airspace closures for space launch debris) and when landing and launching. And there's a public safety implication too. That's a bit different than saying a business has to open up proprietary features to third partys and claim its for consumer choice. That's a bit different and has nothing to do with consumer choice. Most of the rest of the world have very strict regulations for rocket launches and air traffic in general as well for public safety reasons.

Using a prioprietary charging cable had a negative environmental impact. EU reacted and thanks to EU we don't need some special Apple chargers anymore and I can charge my iphone from my friends android charger or from any shop etc. Apple fanboys were using same arguments as you are using right now to defend Apples magic cable.

The microwave claim doesn't work either because Apple supports many standards that allow their devices to interoperate with GSM networks (including 2G, 3G, 4G and now 5G), WiFi and Bluetooth. They will connect to any of these systems as long as they adhere to the specification no matter who made the product. That's what standards are for.

Yeah...the story was the same with Apples m4a lossless music format. They just took mpeg-4 and made close it so just only apple products could use it. So no android app could use/play apple music without struggle. Happily it only made open sourced FLAC format so popular that Apple was pushed to open source ALAC to prevent losing market.
BTW. Did you try to use a Samsung device with a macbook for example? Amazing experience just bc Apple made it so by closing all the doors. So for example I use Galaxy buds with my macbook and I can install a open source made by a geek app to support all the buds advanced properties but it is only possible bc the app is partly illegal and if written by Samsung it would be taken down immediately clearly showing that the barrier is strictly political made by apple.

On the microwave analogy it would be more like Manufacturer A comes up with a solid way to auto identify food based on sensors in a pad put under the plate, sensors inside the oven, and software to always cook it perfectly. Lots of people buy this product because it does a better job with this use case. It can still microwave any food without the pad but without the additional features, and food can still be cooked in other microwave ovens made by others but again not to the same result. Now EU tells Manufacturer A that it is anticompetitive behavior and that they need to share their technology with everyone else so they also can have their food cooked to the same standard.

Apple got rid of mini jack and invented airpods, great! So with older iphones I could use my grado hp, now with my 16PM i can only use apple heaphones. I don't care if you love Apple so much or not, but for me the fact that I can use fully only one brand of hps with my phone is stupid. Like imagine you only only buy Ford tires for your ford car.

Also my AirPods aren't "being faulty as hell" and I have no issues with them at all. Do I wish there were some lower cost over the ear AirPods option? Yes.

I moved to galaxy after having 3 pairs of airpods which randomly all died (I mean it was always about on of the sides dying)

In addition to the standards Apple offers some proprietary protocols and features within their ecosystem. The reason things like AirPod device auto switching and AirDrop work so well is because Apple controls all the hardware and software. They don't have to worry about compatibility with hundreds of third party accessories, they have to design and test with products they have full control over. Others have tried to replicate many Apple features, but they tend to end up not working very well because some devices do things differently and not all even properly adhere to standards.

I agree on the Airdrop thing. I think it is an Apple ecosystyem feature. Asking apple to support all other devices is kidna stupid.

Headphones API having no reason not to be open? They switch based on which devices you are using that are logged in with your Apple ID. That's how they know where to switch even in a multi user environment. It's not very easy to open this up. How is a Sennheiser user on Windows going to use Apple ID on a system level? Come up with a bluetooth standard protocol for this in a future bluetooth version and Apple would implement it eventually.

You don't understand the problem. The api is closed not to prevent connecting other devices. It closed to prevent other manufacturers like Samsung etc. from writing apps to support advanced things like noise reduction etc. The hardware is there but you can't legally write an app like: here you have a samsung app and you can change setting of your buds just bc api is closed meaning if you use the bits from it to support your device, the whole app is illegal bc is using Apple copyrighted bits for BT for example.

The point is you can buy headphones form Sennheiser, Sony, JBL or whoever and they will work with an iPhone because they use standard protocols with wide industry support. They just won't auto switch seamlessly with other Apple devices like Apples own products do. Yes you can't AirDrop to another platform because that is a feature Apple added in addition to all the other ways of sharing files. If there was a standard protocol maybe part of the bluetooth of wifi spec for this that worked well maybe Apple would add support.

I chose Apple products because they are stable, secure and privacy focused. If the EU forces Apple to open up proprietary features at the cost of privacy and security they are actually removing user choice.

Oh and I live in a EU country by the way. I'd much rather have them focus on removing DST, which has well documented negative health effects, than micromanage tech companies.

Maybe they should focus on driving universal standards instead of forcing manufacturers to share their proprietary protocols within their own ecosystems.

YEah that's the reason why Apple is losing the chinese market so tremendously. Hope they will lose EU market too and will live happily in a US small buble with closed protocols only for US citizens.

 

[subjonas]

So is the message to Apple basically: “Share your work, even if it means extra work for you. Don’t create anything that will give you significant advantage over your competition”?

Has there ever been a precedent for this in the free market world?

 

[SBlue1]

why? isn't it the US being the most over regulated country out there, even Musk was complaining that if he wants to lunch a rocket he must first check the impact of it on the sharks swimming in the ocean and billion other stupid things etc.
and btw the headphones API is the classic Apple thing to just screw all other producers bc there is no reason for it being closed other then just pushing people into buying airpods. If you add on top of that airpods being faulty as hell, you can celarly see why people wants to have more freedom in choosing their gadgets. It's a freaking phone, and all of a sudden it is a phone where you can use only heaphones from the same brand to make it owrk correctly. How stupid it is. Like imagine you buy a microwave but you can only use it to warm up chicken from wallmart bc it would stop working with any other chicken. Don't you see the absurdity of such a stance?

I hate Apple for stopping iPhones having Headphone Accommodations for all headphones. I used it with my ten year old wired Sony over ear headphones. Now I have only the choice to use my tiny AirPods Pro or the overpriced AirPods Max. This is why Apple is getting the hate from people who want choices.

Or let’s take the Apple Watch. I don’t want one cause I have to many mechanical watches. But if I would have to choose a smart watch it would be a Samsung because it’s round. But Apple is limiting its capabilities when it comes to working with the iPhone. Why? Choices are good. At least that’s what Americans say. Let the market decide they say.

 

[SBlue1]

The EU does not care at all about markets, they simply want to destroy better products because Android sucks.

What?? LOL! The EU cares deeply about customer protection. Without the EU we would still pay roaming fees, money transfer fees, we would have hidden fees and taxes when shopping instead of the final price, no right to repair, unsafe food, no free returns on online shopping, no compensation on late flights and trains, and countless other rights other countries customers don’t have.

 

[user1234]

Using a prioprietary charging cable had a negative environmental impact. EU reacted and thanks to EU we don't need some special Apple chargers anymore and I can charge my iphone from my friends android charger or from any shop etc. Apple fanboys were using same arguments as you are using right now to defend Apples magic cable.

I actually think lightning is a better connector. It’s much more solid and durable. The official cables was another matter but the connector itself could carry the entire weight on an iPhone without a problem. It’s also easier to clean lint out of since there’s no contacts in the middle.

I don’t hate USB-C. Either is fine by me, but I don’t think EU should make that decision. They tried with Micro-USB and if they were successful then we may have been stuck with it still. Reducing electronic waste may be possible long term, but since people want faster charging they are likely to buy a new and better changer with a new phone anyways. Eventually when people have enough chargers it may save electronic waste until a new faster charging standard shows up.

I love that devices still using Micro-USB is now moving to USB-C. Maybe they needed a push to get there but I still don’t think it’s up to the EU to regulate on a single charging connector.

Yeah...the story was the same with Apples m4a lossless music format. They just took mpeg-4 and made close it so just only apple products could use it. So no android app could use/play apple music without struggle. Happily it only made open sourced FLAC format so popular that Apple was pushed to open source ALAC to prevent losing market.

m4a is an MPEG container commonly used with the AAC audio codec. Both are international standards (ISO and IEC) and are part of the MPEG specifications. Both can be licensed by other manufacturers just like MP3. AAC was standardized in 1997 with MPEG-2 part 7.

AAC/m4a has been widely used outside of the Apple ecosystem. It is not an Apple proprietary format. The reason Android doesn’t handle it well is not because of Apple. Plenty of music players other than Apples supported it with good results before Android was around. In fact Nokia had support with the 5510 in 2002, the year before the iPod launched.

ALAC was initially a proprietary format, but hasn’t been since 2011. It never reached any widespread adoption even in the Apple ecosystem. I think ALAC was mainly the result of a push from the music industry to include DRM which FLAC doesn’t do. If Apple told their industry partners they would introduce a DRM free lossless format at the time I don’t think it would have been very well received. They were later successful in getting rid of DMR in the iTunes Music Store though.

BTW. Did you try to use a Samsung device with a macbook for example? Amazing experience just bc Apple made it so by closing all the doors. So for example I use Galaxy buds with my macbook and I can install a open source made by a geek app to support all the buds advanced properties but it is only possible bc the app is partly illegal and if written by Samsung it would be taken down immediately clearly showing that the barrier is strictly political made by apple.

But they work right? They play audio? They would since Apple supports the Bluetooth standard. Any other features to control Samsungs own proprietary protocols won’t be supported out of the box, but macOS isn’t locked down. Samsung could make an application to control this. If it can’t be published in the App Store for whatever reason they can provide a download on their website. Apple can’t take down applications published on the internet unless they violate intellectual property. Sony provides an app for iOS to tweak headphone settings. I’m sure Samsung could do the same. I believe they did for the Galaxy Buds+. No reason any of them can’t do that on the Mac other than lack of interest by themselves.

If they want this to be universally supported it needs to go in the Bluetooth standard. If the standard includes a protocol to control noise canceling modes for example it would work universally with every device that supports the standard. Make it a mandatory part and everyone has to implement it.

Apple got rid of mini jack and invented airpods, great! So with older iphones I could use my grado hp, now with my 16PM i can only use apple heaphones. I don't care if you love Apple so much or not, but for me the fact that I can use fully only one brand of hps with my phone is stupid. Like imagine you only only buy Ford tires for your ford car.

But you can use any headphones with an iPhone. If you use Apple headphones they can do Apple proprietary things. What exactly is missing with your headphones that you want implemented in the operating system instead of with buttons on the headphones themselves, or in an app to by the manufacturer for headphone settings?

I use a variety of headphones with my iPhone through a USB DAC. Apple has excellent USB audio device support thanks to CoreAudio while Android is struggling a bit in this area. I also use my AirPods and the one proprietary feature I use with those is the seamless device switching. I also have some Sony Bluetooth earbuds that work just fine.

By the way Samsung mocked Apple about removing the headphone jack for about two years before they went and did the same.

I moved to galaxy after having 3 pairs of airpods which randomly all died (I mean it was always about on of the sides dying)

I agree on the Airdrop thing. I think it is an Apple ecosystyem feature. Asking apple to support all other devices is kidna stupid.

You don't understand the problem. The api is closed not to prevent connecting other devices. It closed to prevent other manufacturers like Samsung etc. from writing apps to support advanced things like noise reduction etc. The hardware is there but you can't legally write an app like: here you have a samsung app and you can change setting of your buds just bc api is closed meaning if you use the bits from it to support your device, the whole app is illegal bc is using Apple copyrighted bits for BT for example.

Sony Sound Connect is an app for iOS that does just this. Apple doesn’t prevent Bluetooth devices from communicating with a companion application.

From the App Store listing:

”Sony | Sound Connect is an app that helps you get the most out of your Sony headphones. Use the app to change the equalizer and noise cancellation settings.”

Again, if manufacturers want things like noise cancellation modes to be universally supported it has to go in the Bluetooth standard. If the EU wants this to be open to everyone they need to push for it to be added to the standard. Not for manufacturers to share proprietary protocols with everyone else.

Standards and proprietary protocols can co-exist. This way Apple won’t be held back in their innovation with AirPods because the feature they want isn’t yet in the standard, but the standard features will still be supported by everyone else.

Look at emoji. It’s a Unicode standard and everyone gets the latest version soon after release. Bluetooth software features don’t even require new hardware so a protocol for this can easily be updated with new OS versions to support whatever the industry agreed to add to the standard.

YEah that's the reason why Apple is losing the chinese market so tremendously. Hope they will lose EU market too and will live happily in a US small buble with closed protocols only for US citizens.

I live in a country in the EU where iOS and Android is about a 50/50 split. Of all the people I know with iPhones they have very few complaints. The Android crowd however is less happy and until very recently shaky Bluetooth was one of the complaints. Some devices didn’t work well with some headphones, handsfree devices or car audio systems. That’s better now. Maybe one or two iPhones users I have met want to install applications from third party sources but most are happy with the App Store.

In fact, none of the iPhone users I know are interested in switching to Android but several Android users are interested in the iPhone.

Pulling out of the EU market would be a bad idea for Apple, but if the EU keeps at it with this that could eventually happen. Like how advanced protection program was disabled in the UK because of their new laws, other Apple services could be in the EU as well. We still haven’t gotten all the iOS 18 features out of fear that the EU will require them to break security to allow third parties if they offer them here.

The EU is pushing issues real world people don’t seem to have, and they don’t seem to understand technology and the implications some of their laws have on security and privacy.

 

[weckart]

What I am saying is, there is no EU "crown jewel" technology company, and that's why they're upset. I appreciate and fully acknowledge that there are important companies behind the scenes in the EU, however none of them are truly glamorous, and that's what is hurting these EU bureaucrats the most.

Also, you'll find that a lot of behind the scenes EU tech companies actually started long before the EU was a thing. The only large company I can think of that would be a global player, and started during the EU would be Spotify. But they, like the EU themselves, just whinge and whine about everyone else being too successful and demand competition adapt to them instead.

If you compared some major conglomerates like Siemens or Bosch to General Electric, they would be well on par with each other competitively. Do you see the EU whining about General Electric and trying to regulate them? No? Correct, because the EU have major players that can actually participate in the same league, and any restrictions would harm them too.

Again, wrong. Very wrong. If ASML is not a crown jewel company, why is the nearest competition a decade behind in development? Where would half of science be without Zeiss? Is your judgment of blue chip industry purely dictated by the items on display at Walmart and Hertz rental?

If you really think glamour is behind consumer protection, then that is beyond puerile. You might want to wonder why exactly the same suspects are gathering heat with the DOJ and not for the first time, either. Maybe they are too "glamorous" for their own good. As for GE, it has already had its knuckles rapped. Actually, take a good look at the EU's rogue's gallery. You will find that most, by far, are European. The EU will go after anyone who it finds is breaching EU trade regulations. US companies don't get a free pass and no company is too big or too powerful to face action.

Just stop. You showed yourself up and doubling down on those nonsensical points isn't going to undo that. At this stage it's just whingeing and whingeing and whingeing...

 

[weckart]

You know Steve would have given the EU the finger and say "have fun explaining to your citizens why they can't buy iPhones anymore. Give us a call when you change your mind."

To be clear, I don't think that would be the best course for Apple, but it'd certainly be entertaining.

I think Apple needs to practise cutting off its nose to spite its own face closer to home. Well, well, well. What do we have here? Come on Tim, pull out from the US market. That'll show 'em!

At this stage, it's just a case of EU: bad, USA: crickets.

 

[surferfb]

I think Apple needs to practise cutting off its nose to spite its own face closer to home. Well, well, well. What do we have here? Come on Tim, pull out from the US market. That'll show 'em!

At this stage, it's just a case of EU: bad, USA: crickets.

I am not overly concerned about a case that most unbiased observers think is surprisingly weak, and I doubt Apple is either.

But to be clear - I think the case is a huge overreach too - making up a product category of “premium smartphones” to try to back Apple into being a monopoly when it’s not. I doubt the trial judge will let that fly and I’m certain the Supreme Court wouldn’t on appeal.

 

[delsoul]

Europeans can’t compete, so go after Apple. Again. Never fails.

 

[Pudlo]

I actually think lightning is a better connector. It’s much more solid and durable.

you can still use it if you want, just buy some dongle and keep a lightning dongle for each usb-c cable at your home and one in your wallet.

I don’t hate USB-C. Either is fine by me, but I don’t think EU should make that decision.

Without EU we would still have diversity among something so trivial as charging cable.

I love that devices still using Micro-USB is now moving to USB-C. Maybe they needed a push to get there but I still don’t think it’s up to the EU to regulate on a single charging connector.

And up to who? If Samsung was producing explosive phones, it was your government who stopped letting them on the planes. Can you understand that it is the governents setting the rules and not some smaller or bigger brands?

ALAC was initially a proprietary format, but hasn’t been since 2011. It never reached any widespread adoption even in the Apple ecosystem. I think ALAC was mainly the result of a push from the music industry to include DRM which FLAC doesn’t do. If Apple told their industry partners they would introduce a DRM free lossless format at the time I don’t think it would have been very well received. They were later successful in getting rid of DMR in the iTunes Music Store though.

LOL. you have no idea what you are talking about. Itunes or Apple music now is supporting only apple formats and for lossless music it supports only ALAC. ALAC was a closed same as lightning cable and bt connection for airpod and it was designed that way to close the ecosystem. But luckily people were using FLAC much more often and eventually Apple opened the format bc they were losing the market (one of the reasons: ALAC has been measured to require around four times as much CPU power to decode than FLAC does so for all portable devices it makes a huge difference)
Ofc again just bc Apple is using only ALAC for Apple music, you have to convert your library to that format if you want to sync yous music among your apple devices even thou FLAC is considered much better format and much more popular.

Apple can’t take down applications published on the internet unless they violate intellectual property.

Intresting. Hw to install an ios app on my iphone from outside of the App Store? Oh and assume I live in US bc ofc in EU we can do such things bc EU pushed Apple to give such a possibility. Heck, months ago you coulnd't even change a default webbrowser or maps app. At least thanks to EU pressure we can do such a thing like chosing the webbrowser we like (ofc not in US bc they are in love with apple and safari)

If they want this to be universally supported it needs to go in the Bluetooth standard.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Again why Apple music is not using flac but alac? And why only alac?

But you can use any headphones with an iPhone.

Eaiser solution for me is just to support EU regulations so they push Apple to support all teh heaphones correclty and if not they can go sell their products to China Africa or US.

I use a variety of headphones with my iPhone through a USB DAC. Apple has excellent USB audio device support thanks to CoreAudio while Android is struggling a bit in this area.

And you can play FLAC files using ios Apple music? And you can add your high res files to Apple music and listen to them on the go? Ncie....please give me hints how to do that.

Again, if manufacturers want things like noise cancellation modes to be universally supported it has to go in the Bluetooth standard. If the EU wants this to be open to everyone they need to push for it to be added to the standard. Not for manufacturers to share proprietary protocols with everyone else.

Oh so why is Apple not using a BT standard? Please read 5 times what you just said.

Standards and proprietary protocols can co-exist. This way Apple won’t be held back in their innovation with AirPods because the feature they want isn’t yet in the standard, but the standard features will still be supported by everyone else.

Again, how to use my flac high res files with my Apple music?

I live in a country in the EU where iOS and Android is about a 50/50 split. Of all the people I know with iPhones they have very few complaints. The Android crowd however is less happy and until very recently shaky Bluetooth was one of the complaints. Some devices didn’t work well with some headphones, handsfree devices or car audio systems. That’s better now. Maybe one or two iPhones users I have met want to install applications from third party sources but most are happy with the App Store.

In fact, none of the iPhone users I know are interested in switching to Android but several Android users are interested in the iPhone.

I mean I really don't care what your friends do like or do not. Who cares. My friends are all moving to android so what?

Pulling out of the EU market would be a bad idea for Apple, but if the EU keeps at it with this that could eventually happen. Like how advanced protection program was disabled in the UK because of their new laws, other Apple services could be in the EU as well. We still haven’t gotten all the iOS 18 features out of fear that the EU will require them to break security to allow third parties if they offer them here.

Nah...ios lacks features bc Apple is becoming a ****** company. They just advertised iphones 16 as Apple intelligence ready to sell same amount of devices but still w will have to wait ages to get Siri which has IQ above 5.

The EU is pushing issues real world people don’t seem to have, and they don’t seem to understand technology and the implications some of their laws have on security and privacy.

Nah...EU is doing a great job. Apple is just a stupid phone compny one of many and it will not decide if I can use my headphones or not with my phone. If they cant deliver, they can just leave EU market. Noone would miss. EU has no AI and no iphone mirroring and noone cares. We are just waiting for some nice chinese phones and laptops coming to our market so we can send our iphones to africa nad other 3rd world markets.

 

[weckart]

I am not overly concerned about a case that most unbiased observers think is surprisingly weak, and I doubt Apple is either.

But to be clear - I think the case is a huge overreach too - making up a product category of “premium smartphones” to try to back Apple into being a monopoly when it’s not. I doubt the trial judge will let that fly and I’m certain the Supreme Court wouldn’t on appeal.

The merits of the case will be decided in due course. I am more concerned about the responses of certain posters creating a bogeyman out of the EU when the DOJ is charging Apple with EXACTLY the same complaints.

Take this post, directly under yours, for example.



What's the DOJ's excuse?

 

[surferfb]

The merits of the case will be decided in due course. I am more concerned about the responses of certain posters creating a bogeyman out of the EU when the DOJ is charging Apple with EXACTLY the same complaints.

Take this post, directly under yours, for example.

View attachment 2494315

What's the DOJ's excuse?

I’d quibble that while some of the complaints are the same, most are very different. And the EU’s resolution of “give your competitors your intellectual property for free” is probably unconstitutional over here under free speech grounds - the government can’t compel speech and writing code is speech.

 

[DownUnderDan]

So is the message to Apple basically: “Share your work, even if it means extra work for you. Don’t create anything that will give you significant advantage over your competition”?

Has there ever been a precedent for this in the free market world?

The internet.

 

[weckart]

I’d quibble that while some of the complaints are the same, most are very different. And the EU’s resolution of “give your competitors your intellectual property for free” is probably unconstitutional over here under free speech grounds - the government can’t compel speech and writing code is speech.

The complaint relating to restrictions on APIs is the one that is getting a lot of posters worked up, is it not? Writing code is writing code - a commercial activity. Same as pumping gas, busing tables or driving a taxi around. It has nothing to do with persecution of individuals for their political beliefs and utterings. The US government regularly breaches the 1st amendment. Reports today that a French researcher was denied entry to attend a conference in the US due to his opposition to the president is just another example of this.

This entire thread is just a litany of hypocritical hooey.

 

[It’s always something]

the government can’t compel speech

Tell that to the AP.

 

[surferfb]

The complaint relating to restrictions on APIs is the one that is getting a lot of posters worked up, is it not? Writing code is writing code - a commercial activity. Same as pumping gas, busing tables or driving a taxi around. It has nothing to do with persecution of individuals for their political beliefs and utterings. The US government regularly breaches the 1st amendment. Reports today that a French researcher was denied entry to attend a conference in the US due to his opposition to the president is just another example of this.

While I strongly disagree with denying the French researcher entry into the country, the first amendment doesn’t apply to French citizens. That’s not to excuse the conduct of the administration, but it’s a fact.

Apple is a US company, and courts have repeatedly ruled the code is speech, see Bernstein v. DoJ and Junger v. Daley for two prominent examples.

 

[It’s always something]

While I strongly disagree with denying the French researcher entry into the country, the first amendment doesn’t apply to French citizens. That’s not to excuse the conduct of the administration, but it’s a fact.

Freedom of speech is not merely a constitutional right; it’s a human right that only happens to be enshrined in the Constitution. So the claim that it somehow doesn’t apply to someone that Trump doesn’t like is irrelevant.

 

[surferfb]

Freedom of speech is not merely a constitutional right; it’s a human right that only happens to be enshrined in the Constitution. So the claim that it somehow doesn’t apply to someone that Trump doesn’t like is irrelevant.

I mean, I agree with you in principle 100%, but unfortunately that’s not how the world works. Trust me - I’m not a fan of this administration and have already been personally and professionally impacted by it.

All I’m saying if the government compelled Apple to write code to say, let its competitors get access to Apple’s new features for free, there is an extremely strong chance that the Supreme Court would rule that’s an unconstitutional demand.

 

[R2FX]

15 pages long...TL/DR

I'd say Apple should send EU commission fat bill for development of those features and see if they'd like to purchase it

nice middle ground would be to get paid to develop those APIs and then continue to charge for it... fighting this in the courts would be futile and nuking EU wouldn't help selling iPhones neither

 

[davide_eu]

Why doesn't Apple just exit the market there? And call their bluff.

Because their market share will be taken by somebody else...

 

[davide_eu]

15 pages long...TL/DR

I'd say Apple should send EU commission fat bill for development of those features and see if they'd like to purchase it

nice middle ground would be to get paid to develop those APIs and then continue to charge for it... fighting this in the courts would be futile and nuking EU wouldn't help selling iPhones neither

OK,

So I park in a forbidden area, my car is removed... then I'll ask the local police the reimburse of the cab I paid to get my car back, from my house to the police car parking.

This is what you are saying ?

 

[j26]

While I strongly disagree with denying the French researcher entry into the country, the first amendment doesn’t apply to French citizens. That’s not to excuse the conduct of the administration, but it’s a fact.

Apple is a US company, and courts have repeatedly ruled the code is speech, see Bernstein v. DoJ and Junger v. Daley for two prominent examples.

Your first point seems to be that American law doesn't apply to a French person in America. So does French law apply then?

To be clear - the US notion of free speech does not apply in France or any part of the EU. The EU view applies, and it differs, so the Court cases you cite are only of passing interest to an EU Court.

 

[R2FX]

OK,

So I park in a forbidden area, my car is removed... then I'll ask the local police the reimburse of the cab I paid to get my car back, from my house to the police car parking.

This is what you are saying ?

Sorry mate, I have no idea what are you trying to argue here. No one forces you to park in forbidden area in first place, EU is trying to force Apple to develop something they have zero commercial (or strategic) interest to do

Are you sure you HAVE a car and not just a bicycle my dear EU citizen? /s

 

[user1234]

you can still use it if you want, just buy some dongle and keep a lightning dongle for each usb-c cable at your home and one in your wallet.

Without EU we would still have diversity among something so trivial as charging cable.

And up to who? If Samsung was producing explosive phones, it was your government who stopped letting them on the planes. Can you understand that it is the governents setting the rules and not some smaller or bigger brands?

A safety hazard and what cable is used to charge a device are two very different things. One can harm people and one is a plug to charge your phone. By that argument why don't we replace the R&D departments of companies with government representatives since they want to micromanage how a company develops their products? Why don't we outlaw patents because they make it more difficult for competitors?

LOL. you have no idea what you are talking about. Itunes or Apple music now is supporting only apple formats and for lossless music it supports only ALAC. ALAC was a closed same as lightning cable and bt connection for airpod and it was designed that way to close the ecosystem. But luckily people were using FLAC much more often and eventually Apple opened the format bc they were losing the market (one of the reasons: ALAC has been measured to require around four times as much CPU power to decode than FLAC does so for all portable devices it makes a huge difference)
Ofc again just bc Apple is using only ALAC for Apple music, you have to convert your library to that format if you want to sync yous music among your apple devices even thou FLAC is considered much better format and much more popular.

Apple Music has support for AAC, AIFF, ALAC, MP3 and WAV as well as HE-AAC.

iPhones have had FLAC support since iOS 11 and the iPhone 7, just not in the Apple Music app. It’s true that Apple Music doesn’t support FLAC playback, but there are plenty of other apps that do. I use FLAC myself when I’m not streaming from Apple Music.

Intresting. Hw to install an ios app on my iphone from outside of the App Store? Oh and assume I live in US bc ofc in EU we can do such things bc EU pushed Apple to give such a possibility. Heck, months ago you coulnd't even change a default webbrowser or maps app. At least thanks to EU pressure we can do such a thing like chosing the webbrowser we like (ofc not in US bc they are in love with apple and safari)

Well you said macOS and there you can install whatever application you want made for macOS from outside the App Store. If you’re in the EU you can install from third party sources in iOS. Samsung not bothering to make an application for their headphones proprietary control functions isn’t really the fault of Apple though. Again, make it a standard.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Again why Apple music is not using flac but alac? And why only alac?

Eaiser solution for me is just to support EU regulations so they push Apple to support all teh heaphones correclty and if not they can go sell their products to China Africa or US.

And you can play FLAC files using ios Apple music? And you can add your high res files to Apple music and listen to them on the go? Ncie....please give me hints how to do that.

Oh so why is Apple not using a BT standard? Please read 5 times what you just said.

Wow. I don’t even know where to begin. There is no requirement in any Bluetooth or headphone standard to support all standard formats. Bluetooth can’t even handle true lossless audio due to bandwidth constraints.

Proprietary features of a brand won't be supported by other brands unless they make deals. They can provide an app for control of their proprietary features. No one is stopping Samsung from doing that for iOS. They could offer EQ, ANC, Sound profiles or whatever they want though their app.

This is very easy to solve by adding device control to the bluetooth standard. Everyone will do it the same way, and everyone will support it eventually. ANC settings, on device EQ or whatever. Just make it a part of the standard.


Apple is using the Bluetooth standard. They support several codecs in the standard. The standard doesn’t require them to support other manufacturers proprietary control functions, or to support playback file formats. If you want to play FLAC, use Vox or any other app with FLAC playback support. It’s supported on the OS level, just not in Apple Music. Maybe they’ll add it eventually but there are other options. The reason Apple Music uses ALAC? They have it. It's their service.

I doubt the EU has much interest in this since there is very little consumer demand for FLAC. Most people use whatever their streaming service provides.

ALAC is open source and royalty free so why doesn't Android support it? Why can't I unbox a Samsung and transfer my ALAC collection and start listening? Probably the same reason Apple don't support FLAC in Apple Music. Lack of customer demand.

Again, how to use my flac high res files with my Apple music?

Convert them to ALAC with no loss in quality. How do I play ALAC on Android? With a music application that supports it or by converting to another lossless format is the answer.

How do I play bit perfect audio on a Samsung phone? Because if we can't play bit perfect audio there's very little point in using FLAC above CD quality. There are multiple forum threads about issues getting bit perfect playback on Android. Some suggest using USB Audio Player, some suggest using other applications. It's a mess. The EU won't care about this either since there is very little general consumer demand for bit perfect playback with a USB DAC.

I mean I really don't care what your friends do like or do not. Who cares. My friends are all moving to android so what?

That shows that there is consumer choice. You friends maybe didn't like some aspect and they are moving to another product. That's how consumer choice works. Not by forcing a product to change it's fundamental promise to the customers like privacy and security, or by forcing support for a feature that isn't in any standard.

Nah...ios lacks features bc Apple is becoming a ****** company. They just advertised iphones 16 as Apple intelligence ready to sell same amount of devices but still w will have to wait ages to get Siri which has IQ above 5.

Nah...EU is doing a great job. Apple is just a stupid phone compny one of many and it will not decide if I can use my headphones or not with my phone. If they cant deliver, they can just leave EU market. Noone would miss. EU has no AI and no iphone mirroring and noone cares. We are just waiting for some nice chinese phones and laptops coming to our market so we can send our iphones to africa nad other 3rd world markets.

iOS has plenty of features. If they aren't the features a consumer wants they are free to get some other product. Again that's how consumer choice works. If a consumer doesn't like BMW they can go buy an Audi. If they don't like Miele dishwashers they can buy a Bosch. If they don't like the iPhone they can buy a Samsung. Or a Google Pixel, or a Sony.

If you don't like Siri and is happy to give up some privacy for a better "smart" assistant you can go buy another brand. You don't seem to like Apple products so I don't know why you want to use them? I personally couldn't care less about AI but I get some want it.

I still don't know why you can't use your headphones with your iPhone. Any bluetooth headphones will work with an iPhone. Any wired headphones will work with an iPhone with the necessary hardware in between.

I will miss Apple if they leave the EU market. I made the choice to get Apple products because they do what I want them to do. I would love iPhone mirroring, but I understand why Apple doesn't want to introduce it in the EU. If the EU requires them to open the feature to other manufacturers they have to make changes that can break security. Many of Apples services are privately end to end encrypted. They can't just allow any third party in without lowering the security standards.

What I don't want is iOS and iPadOS to be torn apart by the EU and transformed into something that isn't the product I chose and the product I want. I want security, privacy and respect for my personal integrity. The web browser pop up to pick your standard browser is bad enough. If a person want's a different browser they are free to install one. It shows up after some updates and I have already had to help people change back because they want Safari but were confused and just picked something. Meanwhile Windows keeps bugging users to try Edge even after specifically setting another browser as standard. Can't even remember how many times I have been called by confused users suddenly having Edge and they can't find their bookmarks anymore and everything looks different.