iOS 7 features: why didn't we get these from Forstall?

Rogifan

macrumors Core
Original poster
Nov 14, 2011
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Honest question. There are a lot of badly needed features in iOS 7, most notably quick toggles for settings like Bluetooth and wifi, better multi tasking, notifications on lock screen, Siri able to change settings etc. Why didn't see any of these things while Forstall was running the show? Surely some of these could have been included in iOS 6. :confused:
 

Anti-Lucifer

macrumors 6502a
Mar 9, 2012
776
2
Honest question. There are a lot of badly needed features in iOS 7, most notably quick toggles for settings like Bluetooth and wifi, better multi tasking, notifications on lock screen, Siri able to change settings etc. Why didn't see any of these things while Forstall was running the show? Surely some of these could have been included in iOS 6. :confused:
Because that maniac didn't let it happen. Simple politics when working in a huge corp like Apple.

Once he got the axe, the clouds are gone!
 

Anti-Lucifer

macrumors 6502a
Mar 9, 2012
776
2
Forstall? What about Steve jobs he was the boss
Come on now guys, in his biography and via wiki history lesson, we all know scott was brought over since the beginning when jobs came back to save apple.

Of course jobs loved scott like a 2nd son. But the douche turned out to be a major pain the ass for many and I guess that's why the **** hit the fan.

Jobs is gone so who cares! He would've probably let this nonsense continue on. I'm happy people at Apple really cares enough and decided it was time to fire people.
 
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Rogifan

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Original poster
Nov 14, 2011
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Forstall? What about Steve jobs he was the boss
Yeah I suppose you could include Steve too. But man there are some obvious things here that I wish I could do on my iPhone right now. So annoying when you ask Siri to turn off Bluetooth and she says "sorry I can't do that". If Scott was all that why did he let iOS stagnate to the point where Apple now has to copy features from other platforms? Seems to me like once the App Store was created and once iOS devices started selling like crazy he basically coasted.
 

Vertigo50

macrumors 65816
Apr 11, 2007
1,197
131
It's even worse when you figure that Siri responds to requests like Bluetooth and brightness with something like "Surprisingly, that is not within my capabilities."

So basically, Siri understands exactly what you want to do, yet can't flip the A/B switch to do it. That's just condescending. There is no reason in the world that shouldn't have been implemented with iOS 6.

I really hope they are beefing up Siri this time around, because they are getting their butts handed to them by Google right now. I can open up the Google search app on iOS and watch the words roll across the screen as I speak them, and get a near-instant response. When I do the same with Siri? Swirling circle and a failure more often than not.
 

Phokus

macrumors regular
Jul 17, 2010
149
0
"why didn't we get these from Forstall?"

Because he had enough honor to not blatantly ripoff ideas from Android/Windows Phone/WebOS
 

Abazigal

macrumors G4
Jul 18, 2011
11,940
9,657
Singapore
To be fair, I think Scott was overwhelmed with having to manage maps and siri in addition to IOS, when they each clearly deserved their own department. And he was probably too arrogant or shortsighted to request for more help or manpower.
 

Rogifan

macrumors Core
Original poster
Nov 14, 2011
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"why didn't we get these from Forstall?"

Because he had enough honor to not blatantly ripoff ideas from Android/Windows Phone/WebOS
Maybe if he had thought of them they wouldn't have ended up on those other platforms first. :rolleyes:
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
48,133
16,402
Maybe a larger redesign of iOS was on the roadmap for version 7 for a while now, even when Forstall was there, and we would have gotten more or less what we have now (perhaps with a slightly different look/feel to it) even with him there?
 

AngerDanger

macrumors 601
Dec 9, 2008
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19,235
Why didn't see any of these things while Forstall was running the show? Surely some of these could have been included in iOS 6. :confused:
Why didn't we have cut, copy, and paste until iOS 3? Or multitasking until iOS 4? As a general rule, Apple is slow to release but quick to impress (with intuitiveness and design). Forstall vs Ive has nothing to do with this delay; it's been around since Android was introduced and the competition started.
 

SirithX

macrumors 6502
Feb 21, 2007
413
86
San Francisco
They were features that would have come in time, I honestly don't believe that's Ive so much as it is iOS evolution. The most stark example of this is that we didn't get copy/paste until iOS 3.
 

donnaw

macrumors 65816
Apr 19, 2011
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Austin TX
And if you actually research, Android/Windows Phone/WebOS actually ripped off from a jailbreak tweak.

But hey, forstall couldn't rip off notification centre. Oh wait...
Sorry but no, I had most of these features on my old WinMo phones back in 2006 or so. In fact, the only one I don't remember having is the notification center and with widgets it wasn't needed. I could create toggles, widgets (live ones), etc. with custom ROMs. These ideas are old ideas. I suspect the jailbreak community actually came from the devs at xda who were quite experienced with WinMo and then android.
 

GenesisST

macrumors 68000
Jan 23, 2006
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Where I live
I just love the scapegoating... you succeed as a team and you have "less good things" (to avoid saying failure, which it isn't) as a team as well...
 

Rogifan

macrumors Core
Original poster
Nov 14, 2011
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Maybe a larger redesign of iOS was on the roadmap for version 7 for a while now, even when Forstall was there, and we would have gotten more or less what we have now (perhaps with a slightly different look/feel to it) even with him there?
I don't know seems a bit too coincidental that these changes come after he's shown the door.
 

Night Spring

macrumors G5
Jul 17, 2008
13,073
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I don't know seems a bit too coincidental that these changes come after he's shown the door.
But iOS has been adding features with each generation ever since iOS 2. So iOS 7 would have had some new features, even if Forestall was still at the helm. So yes, I do think that it is a coincidence that these features came out after Forestall left. Or do you imagine that Forestall had a whole different set of features he was planning to add to iOS 7, which were all tossed out along with him?
 

Rogifan

macrumors Core
Original poster
Nov 14, 2011
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Why didn't we have cut, copy, and paste until iOS 3? Or multitasking until iOS 4? As a general rule, Apple is slow to release but quick to impress (with intuitiveness and design). Forstall vs Ive has nothing to do with this delay; it's been around since Android was introduced and the competition started.
True. But it seems almost too coincidental that some of the major things people were asking for came after Forstall was out. Some of the rumors that came out after he was let go were that he was religious about 'what would Steve do' and often told members of his team that 'Steve wouldn't like that'. Of course these are just rumors but not entirely unbelievable as Forstall was a protégé of Jobs. Maybe in his mind something like control center would make iOS too complicated or too much like Android, or wouldn't be true to what Steve would want. I don't know this, just guessing.
 

Moccasin

macrumors 6502a
Mar 21, 2011
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Newcastle, UK
Given the reports that were coming out of Apple after the changes were made (about morale in the iOS team improving), it would not surprise me if Forstall was blocking innovation, or maybe that the culture he created just didn't encourage it.

I love my iPhone but iOS was developing slowly and iOS 6 was - to me - a lost opportunity. There were so many changes in iOS 7 (and so few in iOS 6) that something had clearly changed.

It's not really Ive's doing either. He's only responsible for the design and appearance, so most of the same people were working on iOS 7 who had been involved in 6 and maybe under the new regime were able to push things that they had wanted before but not been encouraged to implement.
 

Paddle1

macrumors 68040
May 1, 2013
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Maybe these features were already in iOS 7, they just changed to the new look.
 

LordQ

Suspended
Sep 22, 2012
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Because he had enough honor to not blatantly ripoff ideas from Android/Windows Phone/WebOS
You do realise Android is a shameless copy of iOS, right? iOS launched in 2007 and Android in 2008.

So after stealing the whole OS, iOS 7 has the right to improve(copy) one or two features from them.
 

jonnyb098

macrumors 68030
Nov 16, 2010
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Michigan
Honest question. There are a lot of badly needed features in iOS 7, most notably quick toggles for settings like Bluetooth and wifi, better multi tasking, notifications on lock screen, Siri able to change settings etc. Why didn't see any of these things while Forstall was running the show? Surely some of these could have been included in iOS 6. :confused:
I have no doubt we would have had control center (or something similar) even if Forstall was still there. Apple was always a little late to the game and after enough people ask for it, it always happened in most cases. Remember the iPad toggle switch? Within less than a year they added the option for it to be mute or rotation lock. That was due to pure customer requests.

When it comes to Siri, under forestall it got much more intelligent under iOS 6 so thats also something I think would have happened as well.

The only thing that would have not been as different was the overall design and look. I think that was a bit in limbo with iOS 6 with the music and app store apps going a little flatter and more monochrome.

So if I had to guess we would have had a lot of this along with a slightly flatter and monochrome look to the OS rather than the complete overhaul to the look.
 

charlituna

macrumors G3
Jun 11, 2008
9,629
806
Los Angeles, CA
Forstall? What about Steve jobs he was the boss
Forstall was known for being something of a Steve fanboy. Only took feedback from Steve, backed whatever play Steve wanted to make. Bit of a sycophant even

It is likely Steve didn't see the need for such things and there wasn't really early on. So Forstall agreed. And continued to agree. Perhaps even after Steve was gone and Tim may have said to include them. If Forstall said no it could be another factor in why he was fired.

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Maybe a larger redesign of iOS was on the roadmap for version 7 for a while now, even when Forstall was there, and we would have gotten more or less what we have now (perhaps with a slightly different look/feel to it) even with him there?
There is talk that this was the case.that due to various bugs etc, Tim wanted a ground zero overhaul of the system a kin to the whole OS 9 to X. But Forstall, who was fine with cleaning up the under structure, balked at changing the UI. And unlike Steve, Forstall was not open to being convinced.
 
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