Right, but that doesn't mean you know anything. Especially when you think there was a 1 year trial of Windows 7. LOL!
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iOS annoyance
- Thread starter MacPC
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Right, but that doesn't mean you know anything. Especially when you think there was a 1 year trial of Windows 7. LOL!
I admit that I didn't read the reason you all were bickering. Going back to the root I see what the issue is. I'll agree with you on this point. Yes, memory is being used to store the save state. The issue really is, how well does iOS manage it's resources? Some see no problem while others do.
You're the one who implied that Mac users are idiots. Also, there was a 1 year trial of Windows 7. It was the beta/RC.
I am aware of the RC but that isn't a full release as BETA usually ends before the release of the actual product itself, so it will obviously have a year of testing or possibly less in Windows 7 case.
*facepalm* x2
Do you ever take other people's comments seriously? Apps that are closed in background do use resources (memory). They just have absolutely no way to run in background.
That's why you have to clear some memory from time to time. In fact iOS will do that automatically when memory is really low - and that will make the system lag a little bit.
It has been explained many times in this thread, but it looks like you are the only one that don't get it.
If you are so "technically minded", why can't you distinguish between applications and services? And how does owning a Mac have anything to do with it?
And don't get me started on that video.
Ill start off by saying that if you have SB settings on your iphone theres a option to let you see how much memory you have left. Try this yourself.
Turn Iphone off and on.
Youll see that there is around 340 mb available (Some less or more depending on your settings)
Now open a bunch of apps then crash them. The memory will drop significantly and can even get under 100 mb.
Finally clear the multitasking bar and the memory will return to normal.
Anyone who said the isn't multitasking on the phone stop crying.
/thread.
Turn Iphone off and on.
Youll see that there is around 340 mb available (Some less or more depending on your settings)
Now open a bunch of apps then crash them. The memory will drop significantly and can even get under 100 mb.
Finally clear the multitasking bar and the memory will return to normal.
Anyone who said the isn't multitasking on the phone stop crying.
/thread.
You need to go back and read this discussion before coming into the middle of it or the end of it. That is what others have been saying that they DON'T USE RESOURCES/MEMORY. I have been saying they do and they are trying to tell me otherwise. So you are not correcting me you are agreeing with me. Wow.....
They've clearly demonstrated that they don't know how it works!.
Two people who are wrong agreeing with each other isn't evidence that you're right!
The part in bold shows why you have no clue what you are talking about.
What the hell is "normal" for memory usage?
The OS manages the memory so that you don't have to. If an App needs more memory, the OS will free some up automatically (you can see this in my screenshots earlier in the thread).
As for your childish use of "/thread" what you've actually done is post about something totally off-topic to the thread. Go read the whole thing before you post such a childish statement.
The thread didn't ask whether iOS has multitasking, or whether memory is used when an App is suspended.
The thread was about the impact of Apps in the background on performance and battery life. You haven't posted anything that answers those points.
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Wow so you are saying the developers who write the programs are wrong now? You have gone too far. Seriously you need to do some research. I am done for sure this time.
You need to go back and read this discussion before coming into the middle of it or the end of it. That is what others have been saying that they DON'T USE RESOURCES/MEMORY. I have been saying they do and they are trying to tell me otherwise. So you are not correcting me you are agreeing with me. Wow.....
I've read from page 1 until this point. You might need to rethink before posting this ignorant post
But anyhow this just shows how much you care for other people's opinion - not at all. Have you even read what other people are posting? Or you just want to disagree with everyone?
I have too. The original post was about how clearing the app bar will improve performance.
Daveoc64 is claiming it does not because suspended apps use no CPU.
Unfortunately, when memory is full of suspended apps and you want to start another, the system needs to swap the suspended app to disk and clear out memory for a new app. This takes time and introduces lag - lag that would not happen if memory were already cleared, perhaps by emptying the app bar?
Daveoc64 continually says that since an app is suspended by the CPU, that there is no lag. Which by the many posters who have felt it through use, is not true. Apple guidelines minimize problems relative to other "uncrippled" -again, dave's thoughts - systems, they do not eliminate ALL performance impact.
Daveoc64 is claiming it does not because suspended apps use no CPU.
Unfortunately, when memory is full of suspended apps and you want to start another, the system needs to swap the suspended app to disk and clear out memory for a new app. This takes time and introduces lag - lag that would not happen if memory were already cleared, perhaps by emptying the app bar?
Daveoc64 continually says that since an app is suspended by the CPU, that there is no lag. Which by the many posters who have felt it through use, is not true. Apple guidelines minimize problems relative to other "uncrippled" -again, dave's thoughts - systems, they do not eliminate ALL performance impact.
This lag should be minimal and will only happen in very rare situations for a short amount of time (i.e. a few seconds and then no more). It shouldn't have a noticeable impact on day to day use of the device.
It certainly doesn't match up with some of the stories in this thread.
Wow so you are saying the developers who write the programs are wrong now? You have gone too far. Seriously you need to do some research. I am done for sure this time.
Which developers are you referring to?
I don't see any source from developers of iOS Apps.
As for being done, I don't believe a word you say on anything.
There seems to be a few technically minded folks who when they say 'apps' they mean most apps except the ones that obviously need CPU to run (a la pandora) - an assumption which is fairly obvious to such technically minded folks - and the non-technically minded folks who then start picking holes in the other's discussion because they take apps literally to mean 'all apps' without reading between the lines. [Long sentence, grammar fail]. This falls into the trap of 'fallacy of accident or sweeping generalisation' is typically a result of woolly, non-rigorous thinking and fails to take into account a situation that could be adequately discussed via set-theory.
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You can tell that to the people I support. I notice it as well, as do several posters who have said the same thing in this thread.
I question whether what they are noticing is the delay described above or something else entirely. They don't mention lag when they "SIGKILL" the Apps.
I don't need to tell them anything. If they want to go and do things that:
a) Apple doesn't recommend
b) Science suggests are totally unnecessary
c) Are not encouraged by a single credible source
Then they can go ahead. Just don't expect everyone to buy into the same hysteria.
Nearly 100 posts later...
I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I watched this thread develop and was sort of trying to force myself to stay out of it. Clearly, the comedic value of this thread is rivaled only by Stolen Receipt Guy's thread of yesterday. The sad part, though, is that we (you all?) not only failed to really address the poor OP's questions... but you BAGGED ON HIM with a -5 rating! Why???
I think the answers are:
1) it can't quit "like it used to" because Apple changed the way iOS "quits" apps. More specifically, they changed the behavior of the home button and it doesn't "quit" your app any more. It is presumed that they did this in response to the world-wide outrage that you couldn't have multiple apps running on the iPhone.
2) they DEFINITELY take up memory and resources while "backgrounded." People will (obviously) debate until the cows come as to whether or not this has any noticeable effect on you. But there is no question: resources (including memory and -- gasp -- CPU CYCLES!) are obligated to these backgrounded apps.
3) yes, they run "tasks" in the background... although people will jump on me here. There are certain "tasks" that are allowed by iOS to be performed while an app is not in the foreground. They were briefly touched on in this thread. They include location updates, audio playback, voip, AND OTHERS.
4) there is no way to wipe them all out with a single tap (or even two or three taps). Assuming we're talking about non-JB'd iOS, the only way is to double-click the home button, press and hold one of the apps in the tray, wait for "jiggle time," and then start tapping each app's "dismiss" badge.
5) there is no way to "prevent this in the first place," again assuming you haven't jailbroken your device.
I really had to bite my tongue to keep my opinion out of this reply. Now that I've done so, however, I'm thinking I might quote myself and "expand" with some commentary in a subsequent post.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I watched this thread develop and was sort of trying to force myself to stay out of it. Clearly, the comedic value of this thread is rivaled only by Stolen Receipt Guy's thread of yesterday. The sad part, though, is that we (you all?) not only failed to really address the poor OP's questions... but you BAGGED ON HIM with a -5 rating! Why???
I think the answers are:
1) it can't quit "like it used to" because Apple changed the way iOS "quits" apps. More specifically, they changed the behavior of the home button and it doesn't "quit" your app any more. It is presumed that they did this in response to the world-wide outrage that you couldn't have multiple apps running on the iPhone.
2) they DEFINITELY take up memory and resources while "backgrounded." People will (obviously) debate until the cows come as to whether or not this has any noticeable effect on you. But there is no question: resources (including memory and -- gasp -- CPU CYCLES!) are obligated to these backgrounded apps.
3) yes, they run "tasks" in the background... although people will jump on me here. There are certain "tasks" that are allowed by iOS to be performed while an app is not in the foreground. They were briefly touched on in this thread. They include location updates, audio playback, voip, AND OTHERS.
4) there is no way to wipe them all out with a single tap (or even two or three taps). Assuming we're talking about non-JB'd iOS, the only way is to double-click the home button, press and hold one of the apps in the tray, wait for "jiggle time," and then start tapping each app's "dismiss" badge.
5) there is no way to "prevent this in the first place," again assuming you haven't jailbroken your device.
I really had to bite my tongue to keep my opinion out of this reply. Now that I've done so, however, I'm thinking I might quote myself and "expand" with some commentary in a subsequent post.
They don't just include those things, you just listed the full extent of the iOS 4.0+ Multitasking APIs. "AND OTHERS" being limited to specific task completion for up to 10 minutes. i.e. finishing off a file upload. Apps must tag a specific task as one that should be completed before the App is suspended, they can't just decide to a random bunch of things when the user quits the App.
VOIP Apps can only run a small "Keep-Alive handler", no more than every 10 minutes, for a maximum of 30 seconds. This handler ensures that the VOIP service is still aware of the client and that the service knows the client can still receive calls.
iOS keeps track of incoming calls (by monitoring a socket for the App) and notifies the VOIP app (so that it can wake up) when you receive a call.
Background Audio - if an app is playing audio, it can run in the background. As soon as the audio stops, the App is suspended. VOIP counts in this category as well.
Location - Apps can either get iOS to wake them when a "major" location change happens or Apps can ask iOS to not suspend them at all. The latter option is not recommended by Apple and should only be used for things like Turn by Turn navigation.
These three scenarios (VOIP, Audio, Location) should be obvious to users. Closing these apps from the tray will stop them working at all. You wouldn't kill an audio app to save memory if you were actually listening to the audio would you?
Outside of this, no "CPU Cycles" are used by "backgrounded" apps. Provide some evidence if you want to make an claim like that.
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I find closing apps makes a big difference on the latest iPod Touch. Now I just run it with multitasking and wallpapers disabled and every launch animation is smooth again. Apps always take the same amount of time to open, there's no wondering just before you press an app 'will it switch in or have to reload.'
Ok, Daveoc64, since you are the expert and I am not.
Explain to me how the iphone is remembering what state the app was in (for the ones it just remembers the last state it was in before you switched to another app) if it is not using "memory" or CPU to do that? Far as I know it doesn't use your storage memory for anything but storing stuff so the only thing it could use is the RAM or CPU.
But maybe since I don't develop I am missing something or maybe you can correct me on my understanding of how it works?
Seems to me it's common sense for some one who uses a computer that if it is going to remember what state your app is in, it has to use something to do that. And for the ones not actually running in the background but support multi tasking, the whole idea was the phone would remember what state you left them in (but wouldn't run them to save on battery since you didn't need them run in the background). ANd that is the advantage of not closing them is that you can go right back to where you were.
Also, then explain to me why my phone runs better when I keep the amount of tasks on the background list down (by actively closing them) rather than never closing them and having a ton on the list. Sure, you could say maybe one of those apps is not working right but that goes right into the you are better off keeping most your apps closed that you don't need rather than letting the iphone do it cause one might not be as well coded as it should (and it's just simpler to keep only what you need backgrounded than figure out what. I do know Assassin's Creed sometimes eats battery if you don't close it manually. I think it's a bug of some sort but if I leave it running, eventually I'll come back to my phone sucked of battery when I hadn't used it the whole time. I don't seem to have that issue when I make sure to close it).
And according to this app I just downloaded that tells you what resources are being used, my apps in the background are using memory (perfect web browser - prolly cause i have a bunch of tabs open - and the app store seem to use the most of the ones that were backgrounded at the moment when I looked. I only had 4-6 apps backgrounded and most of my RAM actually was already taken up according to it).
Explain to me how the iphone is remembering what state the app was in (for the ones it just remembers the last state it was in before you switched to another app) if it is not using "memory" or CPU to do that? Far as I know it doesn't use your storage memory for anything but storing stuff so the only thing it could use is the RAM or CPU.
But maybe since I don't develop I am missing something or maybe you can correct me on my understanding of how it works?
Seems to me it's common sense for some one who uses a computer that if it is going to remember what state your app is in, it has to use something to do that. And for the ones not actually running in the background but support multi tasking, the whole idea was the phone would remember what state you left them in (but wouldn't run them to save on battery since you didn't need them run in the background). ANd that is the advantage of not closing them is that you can go right back to where you were.
Also, then explain to me why my phone runs better when I keep the amount of tasks on the background list down (by actively closing them) rather than never closing them and having a ton on the list. Sure, you could say maybe one of those apps is not working right but that goes right into the you are better off keeping most your apps closed that you don't need rather than letting the iphone do it cause one might not be as well coded as it should (and it's just simpler to keep only what you need backgrounded than figure out what. I do know Assassin's Creed sometimes eats battery if you don't close it manually. I think it's a bug of some sort but if I leave it running, eventually I'll come back to my phone sucked of battery when I hadn't used it the whole time. I don't seem to have that issue when I make sure to close it).
And according to this app I just downloaded that tells you what resources are being used, my apps in the background are using memory (perfect web browser - prolly cause i have a bunch of tabs open - and the app store seem to use the most of the ones that were backgrounded at the moment when I looked. I only had 4-6 apps backgrounded and most of my RAM actually was already taken up according to it).
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Per a developer he sent me this quick bit:
"when app is suspended, remain in RAM.....cpu usage is "near" to zero for them...
RAM will be released only when OS decide it...."
They still use a little cpu usage when suspended and they remain in RAM. Like I have been saying.
"when app is suspended, remain in RAM.....cpu usage is "near" to zero for them...
RAM will be released only when OS decide it...."
They still use a little cpu usage when suspended and they remain in RAM. Like I have been saying.